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06:00 - 10:0010:00 - 23:00

6:07 AM
Coult it be possible to have Apple.se and unix.se rss feed in apple and unix room ?
 
6:22 AM
any android users here? if so:

Android Enthusiasts proposal

http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/18238/android-enthus
 
 
1 hour later…
7:29 AM
Let me first try and keep up with the new Apple Site :|
 
8:02 AM
for the record @balpha and @marc, the new graphs look really sexy . awesome feature
 
all @marc and @jeff
 
Jeff wants to replace the google charts with html divs ;p Makes sense, they are pretty simple, after all.
 
there was an idea in the other room for a "disposable room" that is "moderator created" and drops the rep / account requirements
why not use code.google.com/p/flot we use it for the rep graph anyway
 
which requirements? If you explicitly add someone (as read-write) to a room, they can talk even without the 20 rep
 
I kind of hate our rep graph
 
8:06 AM
why ?
 
flot kinda sucks, rep graph is a PITA to keep in sync because it relies on the denormalized rep values
would prefer textual representation
 
@waffles and what we really need now is more javascript ;p
 
lol
 
@jeff I wouldn't say hate... but it's the worst element in all the design :P
 
@marc I dunno , the use cases for the "public anyone can join / disposable room" would be for commentary during a live webcast.... don't think its something we need to worry about ... I didn't know I could have invited g-man to a room, but in all honesty it probably would have ended bad
 
8:15 AM
> Born in Portugal, living in Denmark.
balexandre, Strøby, Danmark
6.6k 5 31
what brought you from Portugal to Denmark @balexandre
 
seeking for a better way of living ...
wife did the same from Romenia to Portugal ... in start dating, 8 month after we got married (I had dated a girl for 8 years before :-/ .. same girl!) ... I was "sick and enough" with all "our" politics, as we live in European Community, it's a free change with all the rights if we were Danish
we fill up the car and just drove ... no jobs, no home, no work ...
 
that's the way to do it
 
we left Portugal like this:
http://photos1.blogger.com/photoInclude/blogger/491/1457/1600/01.%20Prontos%20para%203300Km.jpg
 
"go that way.. fast.. if anything gets in your way.. TURN!"
 
in 3 days we got a house, in 2 weeks we got jobs, in 8 month in Denmark the bank gave us the money to a 1000m2 area with a 2 floor house ... then our 1st child born... and 2 weeks ago, our 2nd born :)
I still dont speak Danish :-/
I've been "moved" by accomplish my dreams ... and if I'm not ok in a place, I just need to move forward and dont look back.
it's been fun ... plenty of histories to tell grand children's ehehh :D
 
8:28 AM
oh, weird, no Danish? How do you work, in English, or Portuguese?
 
here they have english in the 1st grade... even the very old guy speaks English :)
I talk Portuguese with the wife as she speaks and writes 7 languages :o
 
our daycare provider is a Brazilian couple, so we get some Portuguese now :)
 
at least Portuguese is speak all over the world :) Danish... only by 5 million :-/ - Rio de Janeiro has 36 million habitants so... just one city cover all Denmark for miles in language speaking, eheheh
and .. by 1500 ac we own half the world with Spain ... :) I love our history
 
@don't want to interrupt the thoughtful convo. Is new messages flashing red new?
 
well, we are off topic
 
8:32 AM
yes... but for a really, really short of time ... my own stay green instead of red :)
 
but off topic well
 
I believe red means "client has message, server has not confirmed"
 
the red might be a bit too bright. it's kind of 'warning' red, not 'exciting notification red'
 
Does it matter which red if you color blind?
 
@JeffAtwood I thought that /reputation has textual representation? I kind of like both the graph and the rep audit ;) Or, what other sort of textual representation do you have in mind?
 
8:34 AM
what color did you have in mind @Ocaasi
 
ah yes, but how many of your children have twitter accounts? :)
 
re red/green - I think Jeff has the crux of it, but I'll quickly check...
 
I <3 bubbles!!11!!! http://yfrog.com/i3mlqnj
 
this 4 and half years has been great, best option I did in live :)
 
8:35 AM
@JeffAtwood that is correct
 
oh Marc and Ben why red and green? which is which?
 
lol ... only me! I'm a social media aficionado :)
 
There is actually a bit of a contradiction in the messages; for you, it starts red and then goes green when confirmed by the server. For other people it just flashes red for new/edits.
Maybe we should rationalise that.
 
@balexandre congrats on babby #2, we are thinking about that.
@marc yes the inconsistency is odd
 
Hmm... Well it might be a wikipedia bias, but to me red says link to page that doesn't exist and makes me uneasy. Maybe just a very light gray that gets dark as the message 'comes through'?
 
8:36 AM
@JeffAtwood those where just two colors for debugging purposes at the start... I would've dropped the coloring long ago, you were the one who wanted to keep it
 
Crap, Jeff is up at 1am PST? Must love the job. :)
 
@jeff here the normal is to have 3 kids... as the taxes we pay monthly covers almost everything
 
Sure, blame the guy in charge.
 
it is a good job, except my boss is a total a**hole
 
I bet.
 
8:37 AM
funny, my boss is a slave driver :)
 
@balpha I like the information it conveys but it should be 1) the same for myself and others and 2) perhaps not so christmassy
 
@jeff free schools, frees school books and materials, free dentist until 18 y old, free health, free libraries, free... so many things :)
 
"the same for myself and others" -- huh ???
 
bah, all those free services make you weak! Here in the USA if you get sick, you die! unless you are rich! or get shot in a gun battle in the street!
 
@balpha What country?
 
8:38 AM
so you want to see my message before the server has received it from me?
 
@balexandre Oh man, I need to move back to Europe...
 
UK?
 
I'm in Denmark
 
@balpha I don't understand what RED means vs what GREEN means
 
Yes. I didn't want to bring christmas into it, but that is the problem. Surely, christmas is to blame.
 
8:38 AM
RED: The message has been sent to the server
GREEN: The server has confirmed reception
BLACK: The message has been received through the regular event stream
 
It's a little addictive, but very high impact. Was it always that way?
 
other people's messages also are RED for a second when they arrive.
 
it's 10.40 am here ... I need to work!!! Chat Meta is the way to get work to be done for weeks :P eheheh
 
@spoulson Germany
 
@ba
 
8:40 AM
@balpha why are other people's messages RED for a second? because they "have been sent to the server"?
 
ops... @balpha do "we" need so may colors?
 
no, because you asked for that
 
@balpha Cool. My wife got free healthcare in Germany. We all win!
 
Maa the Very Old Ewe: Darn silly carry-on, if you ask me.
Horse: The cat says they call it Christmas
Ferdinand the duck: Christmas! Christmas dinner, yeah. Dinner means death. Death means carnage! Christmas means carnage!
[flies away frantically]
Ferdinand the duck: Christmas means carnage!
Babe is a 1995 family film that tells the story of a pig who wants to be a sheepdog. The main animal characters are played by a combination of real and animatronic pigs and Border Collies. The film is based on the book The Sheep-Pig (known as Babe: The Gallant Pig in the U.S.) by Dick King-Smith, and later spawned a sequel called '. Babe was filmed in Robertson, New South Wales, Australia. The talking-animal visual effects were done by Rhythm & Hues Studios. Although the setting and style of the film are distinctly British/Australasian pastoral, many of the human speaking parts were ove...
 
Would make a good bumper sticker. Christmas means carnage.
 
8:43 AM
I think the way to go is to evolute the message entry part ...
with @{name} > Tab and it writes down the rest (like in IRC), icons so we can put wikipedia links, photos (when we dont know the code for it) etc :)
 
@balexandre no, as I said, they where only put in for debugging purposes
 
@balpha sorry, I missed that one :)
 
They are pretty handy for spotting new messages and edits, though.
 
@marc I was talking about the colors for my messages
 
If we simply lose the green (use the same red instead), does that solve all the problems?
 
8:44 AM
the red/green/black triad
 
True. I didn't think it's crazy, just a teeny bit bright.
 
loose the green ... red == carnage !!! :D
 
I vote for shades of the same color
 
fine for me -- I have the cursor on the "commit" button. @jeff?
@JeffAtwood as in "red -> dark red -> black"?
 
red is kind of weird
 
8:47 AM
no really
 
how about green, and remove saturation to black as it becomes more "permanent"
green = NEW!
 
and trees
 
would be consistent with the room list
 
so bright green = client has it only, brand new like a baby
darker green = oh, server has it, it's somewhat less new
 
green is in these days. eco friendly.
 
8:48 AM
black = permanent in google scarring your life forever (edited)
 
I still don't get why its required, its kind of jarring
 
Today Eric Schmidt said if you want to get away from google you have to change your name. So no biggie.
 
ohh boy ... :) u guys need some "design" classes...
I would vote for a simple... black for all, stop coloring!
 
Everything moves around anyway, its clear that stuff is happening
 
Link to telegraph.uk article : "The private lives of young people are now so well documented on the internet that many will have to change their names on reaching adulthood, Google’s CEO has claimed. "
 
8:50 AM
and for edits, the pencil show up anyway ... but I agree for edits you may want to call a bit more attention
 
it is nice for edits
 
dang... there a patent for everything this days ...
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/canon-patents-radio-controlled-flash/
 
saw that @jeff
color helps then
 
yes the haters are wrong! the color is good, we are just using too many of them
 
for editing yes, for the rest no ... imho
 
8:56 AM
multiculturalism run amok. one color, 80% bright
 
have you all seen the movie, Babe? it's a classic.
 
are you afraid people will start missing messages if they just show up as black ?
 
there might be a tolerance effect. people get used to the color. conditioned to look for it. could be a slippery slope. soon we'll need big red arrows, <blink> text
 
@JeffAtwood Are you sure your the same person that writes codinghorror.com? Or are you his evil twin?
 
why do you ask?
 
8:58 AM
I thought I maxed out on talking animals with Charlotte's web. What's the appeal
?
 
Because sometimes it sounds like you contradict yourself :) ?
 
no, I never contradict myself.
 
fighting words
 
@Ocaasi Not at all. A comment.
 
just joking.
 
9:00 AM
what specifically are you referring to?
 
@JeffAtwood Actually I am trying to find it...... And now I am going to have to admit it may not be something you wrote I am thinking of, but something Joel did :|
So I retract my initial statement :(
 
Diago you scoundrel.
 
Also ... the illusion of performance is a really important factor ... if I post a message and it immediately there in black, I have the illusion that chat is ultra fast ... that a good one to have
 
What Where How? @Sam152
 
Yeah, I just wanted to join in the conversation.
Disregard anything I say.
 
9:03 AM
I am trying to test a theory at the moment. It is not counting in my favor
 
What theory?
 
All will be revealed when I have proven it conclusively
 
jeff has a doppelganger who writes one thing and then codes in Christmas colors
 
Christmas is fun.
Wow...
It does go RED.. GREEN.. BLACK
Amazing
 
lol
 
9:04 AM
Barely noticed.
 
hey I have a HTML question for youse guys
 
cxmas is right over the corner... we are preparing our selfs :-P
 
gist: 534101, 2010-08-18 09:05:37Z
<html>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
.mspark
{
   border: none;
   position: relative;
   overflow: hidden;
   height: 40;
   width: 240;
}
.mspbar
{
   width:10;
   position:absolute;
   background-color: #ddd;
   float:left;
   bottom:0px;
}

.mspbar.now
{
   background-color:red;
}
</style>
<title>blah</title>
</head>
<body>
<div class="mspark">
<div class="mspbar" style="height:35; left:0"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:21; left:10"></div>
<div class="mspbar now" style="height:23; left:20"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:4; left:30"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:19; left:40"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:37; left:50"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:16; left:60"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:32; left:70"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:38; left:80"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:29; left:90"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:19; left:100"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:18; left:110"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:3; left:120"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:15; left:130"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:17; left:140"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:17; left:150"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:7; left:160"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:16; left:170"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:17; left:180"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:10; left:190"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:40; left:200"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:31; left:210"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:7; left:220"></div>
<div class="mspbar" style="height:30; left:230"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
why does that not render properly in IE8?
 
@_@
Empty divs?
This came up in a question I answered earlier.
I didn't get accepted answer, but there was still a solution.
I'm pretty sure IE often doesn't render divs with no content.
 
I wanted to say the lack of space between the .mspbar and the .now in the CSS. But I would be wrong.
 
9:07 AM
adding nbsp; in the divs does not appear to help
 
looks fine in my IE
 
compare in firefox and chrome
 
oh, wait
 
Apparently adding zoom:1; fixes the issue.
 
am I missing something here?
http://www.balexandre.com/temp/2010-08-18_1108.png
 
9:09 AM
yes, you are
 
guess so :) what?
 
@balexandre compare to a different browser
 
seriously how retarded do you guys think I am?
 
a little :)
 
now, my feelings are hurt :(
 
9:09 AM
but in a good way ;)
 
@Sam152 zoom:1 does not fix it for me
 
Must be something else.
 
AHA
setting overflow:hidden; on the .mspbar fixes it
I learned that trick from @jin
 
set font-size: 1px fixes it
 
god I hope IE9 comes out soon
IE7 is so painful now
 
9:11 AM
i suppose IE doesn't want to go smaller than any text would
 
no xp support. sigh.
 
Maybe we will get rounded corners.
 
it's like a dream, I believe Martin Luther King once wrote a speech about his dream of CSS rounded corners
 
then he got shot. <too soon?>
 
MS assassinated him.
 
9:13 AM
easy in ie ... demos.openrico.org/demos/corner WE NEED MORE javascript :)
 
@JeffAtwood that confirms it -- IE fills it with (empty) text, raising the minimum height
 
@Sam152 Yes. They knew he would have been an apple fan.
 
"I have a dream.. that one day.. web programmers will be able to use rounded corners without writing three lines of CSS for three different browsers.. or using terrible image workarounds.. "
 
IE has problems dealing with empty divs ... just add: <img src="blank.gif" />
 
9:15 AM
I CAN STILL DREAM
 
@balexandre Yeah, &nbsp works too.
 
I have no idea what the codes to add "code" :(
I have problems with non-breaking space sometimes ...
1x1 transp gif fix almost everything in IE :)
 
Yeah?
Images are just inline-block aren't they?
 
you should use @jin 's overflow:hidden; trick before that
 
yes, specially for horizontal space, try make a 10px x 1px with &bnsp;
 
9:17 AM
If inline-block was fully supported, spacer images wouldn't be required.
 
I "demand" icons on the chat window message so we can put code, links, etc :P style it ! :)
 
[code]?[/code]
Nope.
code?
 
yes... to long to write it ... just Ctrl+C+C ;)
 
if(something){
    something = false;
Hey, code is formatted.
 
if(notInDenmark) {}
:)
 
9:20 AM
Add 4 spaces before hand.
And it will auto-format it for you.
 
some as in normal SO?
 
yeah
 
yes, for one line is ok ... how about putting the entire code as jeff did ? ... 4 spaces on each line :-/
 
I guess so yeah
You can hold down shift and push enter to start a new line.
 
gist: 534128, 2010-08-18 09:22:27Z
Console.WriteLine("Hello World");
 
9:22 AM
that's not a good way :) copy/paste and then format code line by line ...
balexandre.com/temp/2010-08-18_1121.png
 
On my 1024x768, there isn't that much space.
 
7
Q: Syntax highlighting for chat?

Jack M.I noticed that syntax highlighting isn't enabled for chat.meta.stackoverflow.com. Here is a good example: http://chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/chats/message/5365

isnt really completed ....
 
the "format as code button" appears when you enter
multiple
lines
using SHIFT+ENTER
 
but no colors ...
 
Oh yeah.. it does too.
 
9:25 AM
then
click
"fixed font"
button
 
  .-´¯¯¯`-.
,´          `.
|             \
|              \
\           _  \
,\  _    ,´¯,/¯)\
( q \ \,´ ,´ ,´¯)
 `._,)     -´,-´)
   \/         ,´/
    )        / /
   /       ,´-´
Hooray
 
Two quick SO/MSO questions:
1) Why do the question titles sometimes have descriptive text underneath them and sometimes not? 2) Why no links to MSO from SE beta sites (even at the bottom)?
 
Don't the SE sites have their own meta?
It would be so confusing if there were 2.
 
Yes.
I just mean at the bottom of the page.
 
I don't understand what you mean by #1
 
9:28 AM
Okay, #1) Sometimes the questions on the mainpage have the first two lines of question-text underneath them. Sometimes just the titles.
Just me?
 
I have never seen that.
Only when you hover over it with your mouse.
 
I think I know what I'm doing. One is the mainpage, from clicking on the MSO icon. The other is clicking on the Questions tab.
 
That would be it.
 
homepage uses "mini" question renderer
 
I thought it was automatically cycling, but it was just two different pages. NM
 
9:30 AM
Ugh
 
seams like it's a very hard question ... I probably need to open my hand for around 400 bounty points :-( I'm kinda sad... worked so much for such rep!

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3502348/how-to-show-the-activex-yellow-bar
 
Yup. Solved.
 
guys, please use the sandbox for trying out formatting

Sandbox

Playing around with formatting
 
Sorry.. forgot about that room
 
@Sam152 Re: MSO links on SE Beta. There's no easy way to get from a beta site to MSO by clicking alone. Either you have to click on your username and then the 'accounts tab' or go through the api/apps page which is an intermediate link between them.
And stackexchange.com doesn't have links to MSO.
 
9:33 AM
There is a link to meta next to the logout button
 
on stackexchange.com? I think it goes to meta.stackexchange not meta.stackoverflow
 
It goes to the meta that applies to that site.
So on gaming.stackexchange.com it does to meta.gaming.stackexchange.com
 
@waffles what code do u had to make "answers" showing like that? I'm on Snadbox and nothing works with [ ... ] :(
 
@Sam152 Right, that all works. Each site has it's own meta. But MSO is the uber-meta. It's not really just SO's meta, it's also where queries about the interface in general are handled. So I would think there might be an easier way to click through to it from any beta site. But maybe the hordes are not welcome.
 
@balexandre just paste the link in by itself, you are overthinking this
 
9:37 AM
@Ocaasi Yeah, I guess they are just migrated if they apply to the entire family.
But you can't exactly tell users to go to one meta for something and another meta for something else.
 
anyone here can help on this question

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3502348/how-to-show-the-activex-yellow-bar
 
I raised this on chat a while ago, complaining about how fragmented the whole thing is.
Technically, SO falls under the SE name.
 
@samTrue, it would be confusing.
 
hum ... guess has to be alone :)
np
 
So the grand daddy meta should be under meta.stackexhcnage.com
But it's really not.
It's too late to change now.
 
9:38 AM
because meta.stackexchange is functionally meta.area51
 
@Sam152 or at least until all SE1 sites have gone
 
SE1 sites should be destroyed.
 
Go where? To heaven?
 
SE1 sites should be made to go through area51.
 
I think it's a point of pride amongt them. Doubt they'd want to be 'integrated'.
 
9:39 AM
And be killed immediately.
 
@Sam152 , don't be evil
 
They should!
Most of them barely had a user base.
Accept for the maths one.
 
@Sam152, most is not all
 
@Sam152 Maybe I have a more specific question: If I want to rant about the SE 2.0 interface, should I go to meta.stackexchange or meta.stackoverflow.
 
I don't even know what is going on with meta.stackexchange these days.
 
9:41 AM
e.g. ask.sqlteam.com/seems still active (from a quick glance)
 
It's kind of like a pre-area51, area51
But mostly outdated now.
 
It's where all the site proposals get discussed. Very pragmatic stuff--how to get people to follow, how to promote new sites, etc. It's not meta about the UI.
 
@Sam152 meta.stackexchange.com is the collective meta for SE V1.
 
[thinks: this is all off topic, we should be in the Tavern]

The Tavern (General)

Here we have our fill of bread and wine, and then tell of tale
 
@Benjol true... or as a Q on MSO
 
9:42 AM
Well, Jeff asked about html so I thought I could slip it through. Then again, I have 400 points of rep.
 
@Benjol but who follows the rules anymore?
 
Isn't there a mod around to teleport us :)
 
It
 
On topic: can we migrate conversations?
 
9:42 AM
From where?
To where?
 
9:53 AM
25 messages moved to The Tavern (General)
 
Ooo, classy.
 
He smote us.
 
My question is, how come there aren't way more chat users?
@Jeff, surely you expected much more than this?
 
Sleep.
 
chat is a difficult thing because it implies strong time sychronization
the rest of the internet is breaking that by design, and always has..
 
9:54 AM
I think the biggest issue is that the link goes to the faq not the all rooms list. So you have to scroll all the way down the page to get to the link.
 
bye guys .. lunch time (11.55 am here)
 
@JeffAtwood Who has move functionality? The devs?
 
chao, chow...
 
@Sam152 I agree. There's a fair amount of activity in here and Tavern. But not much in subject-specific rooms.
 
Hmm, I don't mind it all being in one room, but in general I just expected, once the floodgates were open, for there to be way more people.
 
9:59 AM
@Sam152, all the others must be more conscientious ;)
 
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