Gaming - 2010-08-25 (page 5 of 5)

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11:00 PM

The term shareware (also known as trialware or demoware) refers to proprietary software that is provided to users without payment on a trial basis and is often limited by any combination of functionality, availability or convenience. Shareware is often offered as a download from an Internet website or as a compact disc included with a periodical such as a newspaper or magazine. The rationale behind shareware is to give buyers the opportunity to use the program and judge its usefulness before purchasing a license for the full version of the software. Firms with superior software thus have...

I didn't realize that this was the full game with lockout, is what I meant

ah

@GraceNote It isn't, is what I meant.

Last I checked I had to buy a whole disc for Lethal Application

Demos are still prevalent

11:00 PM

Which I don't mind, because it was worth it. LA is also a great game

It's a vertical shooter, except you can't fly

You only move upwards by the recoil of your own weapon.

@ArdaXi It is the full game with a lock out, you can unlock it without a connection to the internet

@tzenes Not Doom.

"The term shareware (also known as trialware or demoware)"

Trials and demos don't fit that description

Trials might in some cases

I never thought of Doom as shareware

I'm used to demos along the lines that the Touhou series does it. Just a separate version entirely (sometimes separately patched!)

ID did

11:02 PM

I thought they just gave out the first chapter for free

Or Rozenkreuzstilette, for that matter

"Shareware is often offered without supports or updates which only become available with the purchase of a license. "

FallenAngelEyes

Touhou's fandom scares me

0

Q: StarCraft 2 mission timer

I'm working on some of the achievements in the single-player Wings Of Liberty campaign. Several of them are in the form of "Complete the mission in X minutes or less". Is there any in-game way I can see how much time has elapsed since I started the mission, or will I have to keep track of the tim...

@ArdaXi Citation needed?

11:03 PM

(RKS is basically a Mega Man clone with the most brazen form of homage ever, except instead of robots there are german witch girls)

@tzenes Not really, no.

@Fallen For what reason? And do you mean the second-level fandom or the first-level?

actually I was asking for one

@tzenes Example, once again: Doom.

FallenAngelEyes

the crazy shippers

11:04 PM

which also doesn't have a citation

Ah, them

Well, you don't have to worry with me. I love the fanart but I don't partake in any fiction writing myself.

@tzenes ID Games?

FallenAngelEyes

They make my head spin

do you have a citation from ID? or are you just saying there might be one?

But I play by the theory that "The difficulty and hardcore awesome of a game is directly proportional to the number of young girls in it".

11:05 PM

I know there is one, I'm just not going to spend 10 minutes googling one

FallenAngelEyes

hehe

If you want to, launch the game

At least, when you're talking about games which make "I Wanna Be The Guy" look generous.

it has the word shareware in it

(which it is!)

11:05 PM

@GraceNote I wonder why we have no questions for IWBTG yet

FallenAngelEyes

haha

@Arda Everyone in the community either already is The Guy, or gave up trying long ago, would be my guess.

FallenAngelEyes

Watch out for fruit falling upward!

I'm one of the latter

well this is what Wikipedia says "The important distinguishing feature between a shareware game and a game demo is that the shareware game is, at least in theory, a complete game." Now anyone can all anything shareware, but I don't know if that makes it so. I'm not sure if Doom actually was shareware or just a demo either.

11:07 PM

@tzenes A word is defined by its usage

Like "irregardless"

hahahaha

no, words are not defined by their usage

words are defined by convention

words are defined by a dictionary ;)

@tzenes so.. everyone waited for the dictionaries to arrive before using the english language?

convention does not imply dictionary

FallenAngelEyes

11:08 PM

sounds like a discussion for... english.stackexchange.com!

and the english language wasn't really codified till the 16 or 17th centuries

dictionary does imply convention.

Suddenly I am reminded of a discussion where I proved that the non-standard definition of "moe" was valid by using "gar" as a case example.

that's true

@tzenes before that, english words existed.

11:09 PM

Hoy, @Pop Star!

@ArdaXi but the english language didn't

FallenAngelEyes

yay jargon

Ye Olde English.

@alexanderpas Is that right? Which dictionary?

FallenAngelEyes

like all the different *dere types

11:09 PM

there were a bunch of dialects of similar, but not that same, languages

@tzenes we're not talking about the english language, we're talking about the word shareware

that's true

I don't know if wikipedia is right or wrong here

it says the defining characteristic is the full game, but I don't know if that's true

@GraceNote Hey there.

wikipedia should have references.

it does not

11:10 PM

[citation needed]

the link is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareware#Distribution

I did enjoy the wikipedia article on irregardless though

it cites id Software as one of its pioneers

davetalks.com/articles/what-is-shareware.html

it may be self contridictory

I'm not sure if id distributed the full game in the shareware version

anyway.. arguing with someone who replies to everything with an irrelevant argument is not fun, I'm going to focus my attention on more productive things

11:12 PM

@alexanderpas he seems to suggest that there is no difference

is he a sufficient authority that we can change the wikipedia article?

@ArdaXi I disagree with your assessment, but I don't care enough to press the point

@tzenes so you think it is fun?

Ooh, if this is the cliff you mean... ooh, this will be fun...

I disagree that my replies are irrelavent

that was a link in the wikipedia article...

@tzenes It was my opinion, not a statement

11:14 PM

@alexanderpas so at the very least the article is self contridictory

that implies it isn't wrong, not that it is true

0

Q: Hidden Starcraft 2 features

What less known tricks/features/tactics exist on Starcraft 2? One such example which I learned from this answer is that you can chrono-boost your Warp Gates to reduce their cooldown. Another is when summoning MULEs, if you summon it directly to a mineral patch it will start mining.

Oh gadhexitall

@GraceNote That's a new one.

@ArdaXi you can disagree with opinions

Shame the question isn't.

FallenAngelEyes

11:16 PM

Are those really "hidden" features? How do we determine what is "lesser known"?

@Fallen I said the same thing

@tzenes all I said was that I disliked the arguing, you can't disagree with that.. that's saying I do find it fun.

@ArdaXi I can disagree with what you find fun through observation, but that wasn't what I was disagreeing with. I was disagreeing with the statement that my arguments were largely irrelevant

@tzenes I didn't even say that :-)

@Fallen That's exactly it

11:17 PM

@tzenes that's only your false interpretation

you can its false but I do not believe you

I sense a logical fallacy!

"Lesser known" is beyond subjective as a classification. Any other form would just make it like the hidden features of SO, which are naught but horrendous lists.

you've accused my arguments of being irrelevant before and were just arguing with me. Finally you used this as a reason to leave the conversation

@tzenes So you're saying I'm lying about what I meant.

FallenAngelEyes

11:18 PM

Can someone do me a favor and ping me again? I want to test something

@FallenAngelEyes

@FallenAngelEyes

@FallenAngelEyes

@tzenes I still didn't say it.

@Fall Down

11:19 PM

@ArdaXi what you're saying now? or what you were saying before?

FIRST POST HA HA HA

@tzenes I don't know, it's impossible to follow your reasoning for me.

What you you expect, we're just all catering to Popular Demand.

I only stated that arguing with someone is not fun. I never said it was you.

I think you dismiss my arguments as being irrelevant and I find that insulting

11:20 PM

@tzenes Then that's your own fault.

FallenAngelEyes

I think there were too many pings for me to test, haha. I thought I was getting pinged twice, then I realized that sitting in the DF room, I think it pings me there too from the "other rooms you're in" thing.

you may not have explicitly said it, but you have given me reason to think that

@tzenes No, you have given yourself reason to think that.

Don't blame me for how you interpret my words.

@tzenes you should not think what others opinion, instead you should ask.

Oh, darn, this is probably the cliff you mean

11:20 PM

I'm only acting out because it's awkward entering the room in the middle of a heated debate about... something.

I believe I'm interpreting them accurately based on previous evidence

@alexanderpas He didn't even need to ask, I told him.

you've said before that you find them irrelevant (explicitly)

@tzenes Then it's still your belief at fault.

@Fallen It makes a double ping when you actually get pinged by name

11:21 PM

only if it is inaccurate, which you have no way of proving

FallenAngelEyes

I have it set only to ping on name, not for messages

@tzenes past performance is no guarantee of future results

It's still going to make a double ping sound

FallenAngelEyes

Normally it only pings once.

Well, what about now, @Fall Autumn?

11:22 PM

@ArdaXi that's true, but it is an indicator. Given no other data I am force to rely on it

@tzenes you are not forced to rely on anything

FallenAngelEyes

>_>

it is the only messurement I have

You could also have taken it literally

FallenAngelEyes

Try once more, I closed the tab with the DF chat in it.

11:22 PM

Double ping happens if you have 1 room on all rooms, and other room on anything.

that is circular logic

I can't use something as an indicator of itself

I can only use past data

@tzenes No it isn't. All I said was that I found something not fun, without mentioning anyone. That is not offensive to anyone.

@tzenes You can use both past data and no data.

@Fall Off A Cliff Already!

but you were arguing with me

and you used this as a reason to leave the argument

FallenAngelEyes

Hm, yep, closed the DF tab and no more double pinging.

11:23 PM

Again, your interpretation, I did not leave the argument

Huh, interesting, then

it is not an unreasonable inference based on past data

Past Performance Does Not Guarantee Future Results

"I'm going to focus my attention on more productive things"

@tzenes It is unreasonable to claim something is offensive with later evidence that it is not

11:24 PM

I don't believe I have evidence that it is not

define:productive

Then my earlier point of you not listening to me is proven.

Alright, Ima write up the answer to the MMT question, now

which is also insulting

FallenAngelEyes

I don't think your (plural you here) argument is getting anywhere, guys

11:25 PM

chat = not productive.

@tzenes but justified

8 mins ago, by Arda Xi

@tzenes all I said was that I disliked the arguing, you can't disagree with that.. that's saying I do find it fun.

answering questions = productive.

actually no, as I mentioned that is suspect

@tzenes again, your own reasoning at fault, not my messages

again, you have no way to prove that is the case

11:26 PM

@tzenes So? You have no proof it isn't.

I have previous evidence

I have a data point

@tzenes not conclusive

@ArdaXi I agree, let's play instead of argue about insignificant details like we're still 5-year old "he did it, No he did it..."

If so, I have evidence that I said it was not meant at you

@tzenes I don't believe you.

I can scroll through the logs if you'd like

it was on the discussion of DT

11:27 PM

1 bird in the sky does not make spring.

I will not believe what you come up with. That's your strategy. Why should I not use it.

FallenAngelEyes

So how about those problems that we need to solve with those games.

you said my arguments "red herring" and irrelevant

@tzenes That's evidence of nothing but that I said your arguments "red herring" and irrelevant

since there was no advantage to lying at the time, and I had no previous data prior, I can use this as my first data point

11:29 PM

@tzenes How do you know there wasn't?

I could have wanted to win the argument... possibly.

that wouldn't help you win the argument

though I'm not sure how you could win one

That doesn't make it not an advantage.

I suppose concession

And... answer is ready. Now to wait for the asking~

@tzenes and that isn't offensive?

11:30 PM

@tzenes, It is my opinion, that you are simply trolling!

Do you believe that my saying arguments cannot be won is offensive?

@tzenes saying literally that you don't see how I could win one I do deem offensive, yes.

I'm sorry then, I did not mean to imply this was a trait of you in particular but arguments in general

:)

I love how we just went back to @alexanderpas's original point of some

no, I miss used a pronoun

11:33 PM

only you are now on the reverse side

it was ambiguous in this context

@ArdaXi with a 2-hour detour.

congratulations. you managed to lose an argument from yourself.

I guess that's a lose-lose situation

I dont' see how that's the case

you just argued right against the original point you argued against @alexanderpas

11:34 PM

1 min ago, by tzenes

no, I miss used a pronoun

about my misusing a pronoun?

no, this

2 mins ago, by tzenes

I'm sorry then, I did not mean to imply this was a trait of you in particular but arguments in general

and that suggests what?

that you just took the opposite side you took when you were arguing against @alexanderpas

How so?

you're going to have to connect the dots

11:35 PM

why? Didn't my interpreting that make it true? or does that only go for you?

if so, do teach me your ways

I took responsibility for your interpretation

which is what I was arguing for before

@tzenes what interpretation

@tzenes logical fallacy!

you interpretation my comment as an insult. I took responsibility for that interpretation and apologized

@tzenes no you didn't

11:37 PM

really? chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/124185

@ArdaXi actually, he did... after more than 1.5 days later...

you only said you meant something else

does that line not start with "I'm sorry then?"

that's not an apology, that's saying I'm wrong

that's apologising for me being wrong

no, I'm sorry is an apology

11:38 PM

6 mins ago, by tzenes

I'm sorry then, I did not mean to imply this was a trait of you in particular but arguments in general

yes, but you're not apologising for your condescending remark

I was trying to

I'm sorry again for not making that clear

I'm sorry, I did not mean seems like an apology.

I don't believe you.

I honestly didn't think this argument could get any more ridiculous.

11:39 PM

my intention was to apologize for your interpretation, and then explain what I was originally trying to convey so you would not think I thought you could not win an argument

I'm sorry I was not clear

@GraceNote Ooh, I think we haven't even started yet

@GraceNote It can, when we get serious.

Based on, erm, previous evidence

previous evidence of my lack of clarity?

@tzenes Again, as you have said to me many times before while I was saying the exact same thing: "I don't believe you"

11:40 PM

@ArdaXi you have never once apologized

And at this point I'm also wondering if this is just a game of one-ups-manship devil advocation.

though if you do not believe me perhaps you could believe alexander chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/124233

I like being the devils advocate, so don't try to use my arguments against me.

@tzenes why are your own arguments only valid when you use them?

I don't think that's the case, since I'm referring to alexander here

not my argument

11:42 PM

you can say "I don't believe you" when I say I did not mean something a certain way but when you say the exact same thing I can't?

oh, thats because you didn't apologize

I don't think I have anything to apologise for

I didn't mention you at all

and it might seem like an apology to him, but not to me

Well, I can only provide as many data points as I have

:124269 sorry, wrong target, should read better.

I don't believe when people say they weren't insulting me if they don't apologize

11:44 PM

@tzenes So if I say hi and you find that insulting I have to apologise?

you may find fault with this logic, but it is the reasoning behind my belief

as I said before, I disagree

@ArdaXi if I thought you were implying I was a druggy then yes, I think you should

that is why I did not apologise

@ArdaXi If I draw a picture of muhammed... (you know where i'm going...)

11:46 PM

@tzenes I disagree. You'd have decided to think I implied that

that would be your own mistake, not mine

I would not apologise for your mistakes, that seems backwards

I know you disagree, you asked me why I thought that and I was answering your question. I wasn't making an argument

@tzenes I asked a yes/no question

I think you mean will not

I did not ask for reasoning

You can make an argument by making an argumentive answer.

11:47 PM

I was replying to: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/124257

as I said, yes or no question

If you say so, I did not take it as such

@tzenes once again, not my mistake

As I am aware. Since I am not offended by your choice of yes/no questions, there is no need to apologize

There hasn't been a 'need' to apologise this entire conversation

only an imaginary need caused by incorrect interpretation

11:52 PM

as you have state before. However I don't share your opinion

@tzenes that doesn't create any kind of need, however

@tzenes @ArdaXi @alexanderpas, we might want to stop this, there are others around here getting irritated up to the point of avoiding this room!

as you have stated before

@alexanderpas If anyone is disagreeing with this conversation, speak now or forever hold your peace

I do for reasons already mentioned which I won't repeat for the sake of brevity

11:53 PM

in Dwarf Fortress Succession, 13 mins ago, by FallenAngelEyes

...I'm just going to stare at this empty room, as less irritating than the other at the moment.

@tzenes you create a need?

I spoke earlier, does that count?

didn't see that one

I disagree with alexander's point

not yours

@GraceNote you only pointed out the idiocy of this conversation, which I wholeheartily agreed with :)

11:54 PM

let's just stop this discussion, PLEASE!

unfortunately I am forced to, as it is quitting time around here

I have a general opposition to blind debating. I had enough with Shamgi once and... that other fool whose name I don't quite remember right now but I could easily look up because he was goalkeeper...

@GraceNote I wouldn't call this blind debating. It's just mindless banter.

Blind debating is what I refer to when an argument appears to have devolved into nothing but arguing for argument's sake

@GraceNote Oh. Then yes, it is blind debating.

11:58 PM

now, let's find another subject to talk about.

Should I write a blog post? And if so, on what?

Also, anyone see an ominous blue number next to this room name?

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