Gaming

Arda Xi

9:00 PM

to what? becoming a mod and closing questions that way?

tzenes

try coming at the discussion from a different angle

Arda Xi

I've tried, nobody listens

Mana

I listen

I just never comment.

I probably should.

tzenes

keep trying

look, if you want to give up, you can. For me, failure is not a reason to quit

Arda Xi

I've tried dozens of different angles

nobody has listened so far

I'm not going to just keep trying until this site goes down

badp

9:02 PM

I think somebody needs a hug...

Arda Xi

I'm already reacting on suicidal robot ninjas

badp

why bother, just build a coin operated suicide booth.

Arda Xi

coin operated? if they're going to commit suicide they're gonna give me more than 25 cents

Macha

25c? How dare you flood the market with your low quality suicide booths for cheap prices!

Mana

hmmmm

badp

9:06 PM

@Macha Slow and painful could be 50¢

alexanderpas

are those dollar cents or pound cents?

badp

dunno, I think they use australian dollars in futurama!

Macha

$ cents

Pound cents don't exist

And euro cents don't have the line through them

Gaming

1

Q: What is a reliable source of electric resistance in Dungeon Crawl?

The LearnDB suggests that you should not consider taking on the Zot dungeons without some source of rElec. However, I have never found so far any item that granted such a protection, except for potions of resistance and spells. What is a reliable source of electric resistance in Dungeon Crawl?

badp

actually we don't have a symbol for cents in Italy

we write 0,20€

Arda Xi

9:09 PM

There is none, we just use €0,01

alexanderpas

australia has pennys just like the UK

Arda Xi

wait.. why are we discussing hundredths of currencies around the world?

Macha

We use 80c here :P

Mana

Because the other topic was getting too heavy

Macha

etc.

badp

9:09 PM

to lighten up the mood

Mana

this is a nice breather

while I sit around and try to think of a perfect reason to close game-rec that doesn't contradict any of the other questions we've allowed

alexanderpas

don't forget the $.002 cents

badp

is that Verizon cents?

alexanderpas

yup.

badp

okay, back to business

first-person-shooter ×33 vs framerate ×4 -- do you still think the confusion argument holds any water? <.<

Arda Xi

9:12 PM

yours? no

McKay

@badp what's the confusion?

Arda Xi

but I never did in the first place, so..

badp

I've proposed several times to use fps instead of first-person-shooter, but people argue we can't because fps is also an abbreviation for frames-per-second (except we use framerate)

Arda Xi

oh, I thought that was you

sorry

tzenes

Yeah, I still think its an issue

badp

9:16 PM

This is part of the question about why we have rpg but first-person-shooter and real-time-strategy

@tzenes, those rare times the tag is misused we can hand correct it

tzenes

I don't think sampling the number of questions about that is indicative of people's experience with the acronyme

badp

After all, the current UI silently brings fps to first-person-shooter, so mistags can still happen

tzenes

like I said at the time, would you like to be the guy who has to go through and fix the 8,000 fps questions?

Arda Xi

@tzenes and what is?

tzenes

@ArdaXi if you want good data you'll have to do a user study

badp

9:18 PM

@tzenes: except we actually don't have a huge backlog of questions to fix. We can do them as they are asked.

Arda Xi

@tzenes have you done one?

alexanderpas

mistags can happen, but they will be very clear after the post is poseted.

badp

We already do, actually.

tzenes

@badp not if someone sees the fps tag, and goes through and does the 8,000 frame rate questions in one swoop.

I think avoiding the fps tag is the best solution

badp

er, what?

Arda Xi

9:19 PM

@tzenes The solution to your non-existent problem?

badp

I'm not sure I understand the problem here

Arda Xi

Me neither.

tzenes

...

Arda Xi

There is no problem, and @tzenes is solving it.

badp

Could you please rephrase?

tzenes

9:19 PM

assume you have an fps tag, and a framerate tag

badp

okay

tzenes

assume we have 60k fps questions and 8k framerate questions

Arda Xi

you scolded me for assuming something like this before, but I'll bear with you

badp

alright

Macha

Why do I bother reading TechCrunch anymore? The writers and the commenters are all hopelessly out of touch with reality :(

tzenes

9:20 PM

now, what happens if someone goes through and retags all the framerate tags to fps?

Arda Xi

@tzenes I don't see that happening ever

badp

all the eight thousand questions?

tzenes

@badp yes all eight thousand

Arda Xi

why are we planning for a problem that doesn't exist yet, and likely never will

badp

sounds like a moderator

Mana

9:21 PM

it doesn't matter if it's all eight thousand or just a few

badp

I guess moderating moderators is up to developers :P

tzenes

@ArdaXi this is the kind of problem that wikipedia has to deal with

alexanderpas

if a user post a [framerate] question, but uses the [fps] tag, it will be changed to [first person-shooter], user sees this, and goes to fix the question, enters frame, and notices the [framerate], not using [fps] but [first-person-shooter] enables users to fix their own mistakes.

Arda Xi

@tzenes We revert it if we must

C. Ross

quick question, is there a source for the aging logic for close votes? a meta post maybe?

tzenes

9:21 PM

@ArdaXi all 8k

Arda Xi

SELECT * FROM revisions WHERE userid=<offendinguser>

tzenes

@CRoss meta.so?

badp

@tzenes, we email the team and they look into the issue for us

tzenes

and if its anonymous?

Arda Xi

@tzenes impossible

badp

9:22 PM

you need rep

tzenes

ok, so your solution is disaster recovery

Arda Xi

anonymous accounts can't retag

tzenes

you can have rep with a cookie

Arda Xi

@tzenes my solution to your non-existent problem

badp

then you are not anonymous

(?)

Arda Xi

9:22 PM

which, if I have not said it enough, does not exist.

tzenes

cookies don't have uids

Mana

Yeah, I think this topic is a waste of time

badp

even if you just have a cookie, the system should have accountability ;)

Mana

well

Arda Xi

@tzenes yeah they do

Mana

9:23 PM

that's harsh

alexanderpas

cookies DO have UID

tzenes

@ArdaXi because it does not exist doesn't mean it will not exist

Arda Xi

how else could the cookie have rep

tzenes

Do they?

Arda Xi

how would it store the rep

in the cookie itself?

C. Ross

9:23 PM

@tzenes I would hope

tzenes

could be in memory on the server

Mana

not a waste of time but I think it's creating meaningless conflict over a very hypothetical situation

alexanderpas

they are the unregistered users.

badp

@tzenes, voice your concerns with Jeff, since this is a engine-wide issue

tzenes

could be in another location which is deleted

Arda Xi

9:23 PM

@tzenes it isn't though

tzenes

could be anywhere

I don't know, and you don't know

Arda Xi

sure I do

tzenes

the point is your solution to this problem is disaster recovery

badp

@tzenes, ask it on MSO

Arda Xi

there IS NO PROBLEM

tzenes

9:24 PM

my solution is to avoid the disaster

Arda Xi

has there ever been such a disaster

on any SE site

tzenes

I don't know

badp

"What do we do if a cookie user uses his retagging powers to mistag eight thousand questions in good will?"

alexanderpas

let's stock food to avoid disaster!

tzenes

maybe?

Arda Xi

9:25 PM

of 8k retagged questions with no record in the database

@tzenes What if a mod goes berserk?

tzenes

maybe it has, maybe it will, I don't know?

I'm trying to avoid a potential problem

Arda Xi

then don't assume it will

alexanderpas

we still have the A-TEAM!

Arda Xi

it doesn't even have enough potential to happen to call it a potential problem

tzenes

failing to plan is planning to fail

badp

9:26 PM

@tzenes, the potential problem is people being confused by having both of rpg and first-person-shooter

Arda Xi

you're overplanning

alexanderpas

Having @Jeff on call is a backup

tzenes

@badp my solution to that is role-playing-game

Arda Xi

someone can already retag all the framerate questions to fps

nothing is stopping them

alexanderpas

[mmorpg] is too long except in this way.

tzenes

9:26 PM

this isn't over planning, its just not using the fps tag

badp

@arda: can't, synonyms are in place stopping that

Arda Xi

@badp they could retag it to something else if they wanted to

alexanderpas

5 mins ago, by alexanderpas

if a user post a [framerate] question, but uses the [fps] tag, it will be changed to [first person-shooter], user sees this, and goes to fix the question, enters frame, and notices the [framerate], not using [fps] but [first-person-shooter] enables users to fix their own mistakes.

badp

if you can please delete those synonyms I can hand retag those 8k, err, 33 questions to use fps myself :P

FallenAngelEyes

My god, we're going to self-implode from arguing before we ever get out of beta

tzenes

9:27 PM

@alexanderpas yes, for a single question that is the case, but if someone is going through 8 thousand questions its unlikely they're going to check each one

Arda Xi

@tzenes Do you really believe someone will?

tzenes

all I am suggesting is not using an ambigious tag

Arda Xi

Really?

it's not even ambiguous

tzenes

@ArdaXi I strongly believe someone will try to

Arda Xi

@tzenes are you prescient?

tzenes

9:28 PM

whether or not we can prevent it, I'm unsure

badp

I wish Jeff's answer wasn't deleted

Arda Xi

(As you have asked me before)

tzenes

No, its called experience

Arda Xi

you call me out on assuming something

tzenes

users are stupid

alexanderpas

9:28 PM

everytime a question is created, it is a single question!

badp

oh, it wasn't

3

A: How to tag: use acronyms or not?

I disagree strongly with the other positions here. if I say [fps] to you, you don't go WHAT? EH? WHAT IS THIS EFF PEEE ESS THING?!! if I say "hey I was playing [wow] the other day" you don't go "huh? how do you play a WOW?" The point is that you use tag terms accepted by the community ...

Arda Xi

I've told you there's a very slim chance, I've told you it can be reversed

alexanderpas

Also Vote To Close, Belongs on Meta-Gaming

Arda Xi

for a problem this unlikely to happen, disaster recovery is a good solution

tzenes

the issue here is that the acronyme hashes to two things

badp

9:30 PM

@alexanderpas, I find live chatting better than walls of text + comment wars for this kind of issues

tzenes

you have no idea how unlikely and the solution is already implemented, so why change it?

alexanderpas

let @Jeff worry about disasters.

Arda Xi

@tzenes not if we redefine it

fps to mean first-person-shooter, framerate to mean frames-per-second

C. Ross

lol, the troubles of human language

tzenes

framerate already means frames-per-second

Arda Xi

9:31 PM

only in the context of our tags

alexanderpas

9 mins ago, by alexanderpas

if a user post a [framerate] question, but uses the [fps] tag, it will be changed to [first person-shooter], user sees this, and goes to fix the question, enters frame, and notices the [framerate], not using [fps] but [first-person-shooter] enables users to fix their own mistakes.

tzenes

could have sworn I had a response to that @alexanderpas

badp

in The Tavern (General), 1 min ago, by badp

Hey guys, what happens if somebody with a cookie account on SO retags 8k questions from c# to c-sharp?

in The Tavern (General), 28 secs ago, by Nick Craver

@badp - an IP ban, I'd imagine

Here's your answer, @tzenes

alexanderpas

the team does a rollback.

tzenes

and we lose everything during that period?

Arda Xi

9:33 PM

no

just their malicious edits

alexanderpas

no, a rollback from edits from that specific account.

tzenes

Are you sure? do you know how a rollback works?

Arda Xi

@tzenes you are familiar with SQL?

badp

nevermind such a retag rampage FILLS the homepage

tzenes

yes

Arda Xi

9:33 PM

@tzenes I know Jeff is a capable programmer

badp

in The Tavern (General), 23 secs ago, by Nick Craver

would still take a lot of time, that's a lot of requests and 10 requests in under so many seconds gets a temp ban from IIS

Arda Xi

I know he can do a selective rollback

tzenes

I am not familiar with the SO database implimentation

Arda Xi

@tzenes I know it uses MSSQL

I know data has to be stored in a certain way to be displayed on the site the way it is

tzenes

that doesn't mean data is stored in an meaningful way for a single user account rollback

Arda Xi

9:34 PM

@tzenes the revisions page does

alexanderpas

don't forget, they have dev powers... even in emergencies, they can put the site in maintaince, write some code, and fix it.

tzenes

@ArdaXi is that in the database? is it reassembled at render time?

Arda Xi

@tzenes fairly sure, yes

tzenes

@alexanderpas it would seem to me avoiding a problem is a better solution than disaster recovery

Arda Xi

if you can assume really unreasonable things, I can assume reasonable things

alexanderpas

9:35 PM

even if it is reassembled at render time, the data is there

tzenes

@ArdaXi that was an xor question, how can the answer be yes?

Arda Xi

if it's re-assembled at render time it's still in the database

alexanderpas

also remember [game-recommendations] -> [game-rec]

Arda Xi

even if it wasn't you could potentially scrape it

tzenes

@alexanderpas right, but then you have to render each page to get it (or do something similar to rendering)

eer

Arda Xi

9:36 PM

@tzenes the revisions are stored in the database together with the user who does it

tzenes

that linked wrong

alexanderpas

@tzenes or write a custom query...

Arda Xi

this is proven by the fact it is rendered on the revisions page

TSQL supports WHERE queries

alexanderpas

Dev powers are ultimate.

Arda Xi

1 + 1 = 2

tzenes

9:37 PM

ok, imagine I have a database which I gzip compress the data and inline the user id, write me that TSQL

look, all I'm sugesting is that instead of worrying about disaster recovery we avoid teh problem

Arda Xi

I've also said I knew Jeff was a reasonable programmer

@tzenes and all I'm suggesting is that instead of worrying about disaster recovery we stop worrying about not that potential disasters

tzenes

actually, I'm not even suggesting that, I'm suggesting that we not change things

alexanderpas

we don't have to worry about desaster recovery, we have people who get paid for that.

tzenes

yeah, you said that but you have no real evidence to show its not that potential

I can show that FPS hashes to two things

can you show that doesn't cause confusion?

Mana

I have no real evidence to show that pink unicorns aren't going to vaporize us all to death through the power of love and rainbows tomorrow at 4:31 PM.

EST.

alexanderpas

9:39 PM

18 mins ago, by alexanderpas

if a user post a [framerate] question, but uses the [fps] tag, it will be changed to [first person-shooter], user sees this, and goes to fix the question, enters frame, and notices the [framerate], not using [fps] but [first-person-shooter] enables users to fix their own mistakes.

tzenes

@Mana that's not true, you have the evidence that unicorns don't exist

Arda Xi

@tzenes where?

Mana

They're invisible.

Arda Xi

Have we scoured the entire universe?

tzenes

@alexanderpas could have sword I had a response to that

badp

9:40 PM

This discussion started here <.<

Arda Xi

@alexanderpas @tzenes I feel trapped in a temporal loop

tzenes

@ArdaXi Occam's Razor, people do stupid things its likely they continue to do stupid things

Arda Xi

@tzenes give me an example of such as stupid thing

last time you said you didn't have one

tzenes

why would we change something to make things more confusing

Arda Xi

why would we assume it's more confusing

tzenes

9:41 PM

an example of a stupid thing?

alexanderpas

and people worry about things they don't have to worry about.

tzenes

its more confusing because the acronyme hashes to two phrases

badp

because there's shouldn't be any confusion about what fps means, when you also read the question title

alexanderpas

20 mins ago, by alexanderpas

if a user post a [framerate] question, but uses the [fps] tag, it will be changed to [first person-shooter], user sees this, and goes to fix the question, enters frame, and notices the [framerate], not using [fps] but [first-person-shooter] enables users to fix their own mistakes.

Arda Xi

@tzenes a weighted hash perhaps

about 1:50

tzenes

9:42 PM

"I'm having trouble with jerkyness is CS:S"

Mana

If not the question title then the context should make it obvious.

alexanderpas

and yes, i keep posting this until it will be read!

Arda Xi

@tzenes turn down your settings

tzenes

I did read it, even responded to it

but I"m not going to respond to it again

that would be obtuse

McKay

Lets get 1PS as the acronym for 1st Person Shooter standardized on the Internet!

Arda Xi

9:43 PM

you responded to it with "I could have sworn I had a reply to it"

badp

@tzenes That's not what I'm looking for, because the question is correctly tagged fps for first-person-shooter

tzenes

@ArdaXi it was an example of a title that could be ambigious

Arda Xi

@tzenes it would be closed

but that's beside the point

(without proper body anyway)

tzenes

"If not the question title then the context should make it obvious."

Arda Xi

exactly

tzenes

9:44 PM

@badp or it should be tagged for framerate

badp

it should be tagged both

alexanderpas

@tzenes you didn't respond, you avoided it by suggesting an unlikely scenario.

tzenes

so he said the title solve this problem, and I gave a title that didn't

badp

if one tag is missing, it can be added for this one question

tzenes

@alexanderpas I don't consider it unlikely

@badp does that question need first-person-shooter tag?

Arda Xi

9:45 PM

@tzenes consensus is that it is though

@tzenes It's a first person shooter, so yes.

badp

Is CS:S a first person shooter?

tzenes

forgive me, let me go back and tag every Modern Warfare question with fps

Arda Xi

@tzenes they should be

tzenes

in fact, at that point what is the need for the fps tag?

Arda Xi

literally should be

alexanderpas

9:46 PM

@tzenes so you expect someone to change all [ps3] questions to [playstation-3]

Arda Xi

@tzenes so your stance is now: "get rid of all the genre tags"?

tzenes

should I also tag them windows?

I think they have an appropriate use

Arda Xi

@tzenes if they're windows-based, yes

badp

▖▁▗

Arda Xi

we already enforce platform tags for questions

tzenes

9:46 PM

I don't think tagging every starcraft 2 questions rts is useful

Arda Xi

unless they're platform-agnostic

@tzenes why would tagging them starcraft-2 be useful then

tzenes

so you admit there are times when you don't want to

Arda Xi

@tzenes sure. what game is genre-agnostic?

tzenes

because you want to find all starcraft 2 questions

alexanderpas

@tzenes why not, tag them [game] too...

tzenes

9:47 PM

@alexanderpas I think that's my point

Arda Xi

@tzenes why might someone not want to see all rpg questions?

tzenes

@ArdaXi because they'd have to know most RPG ever for that tag to be useful?

or at least most

badp

o.O

Arda Xi

@tzenes why?

they might want to see a list of those games for some reason

tzenes

why would you want to select starcraft-2?

badp

9:48 PM

OMFG LIST OF X CLOSE

tzenes

because you know or care about starcraft-2

Arda Xi

maybe someone knows or cares about rpgs in general

alexanderpas

let's tag all [starcarft-2] questions with [starcraft-series]

tzenes

but you didn't suggest using it for just general rpg questions, you suggested for EVERY rpg

Arda Xi

@tzenes for every RPG question, yes

badp

9:49 PM

@alex, I still think [portal-1] is a tag that makes sense :P

tzenes

ok, you win, go tag every First person shooter with the fps tag

FallenAngelEyes

I don't really disagree with genre-tagging

tzenes

there are only about 500, so it shouldn't take you long

Arda Xi

why would I want to

alexanderpas

@badp that is [half-life-universe] if you don't forget.

Arda Xi

9:50 PM

I'm saying it should happen, not that I want to retro-actively apply it

tzenes

and after that you can do the same for rts and rpg

badp

well, 8k questions can be done before anybody notices, can they not @tzenes?

FallenAngelEyes

@tzenes: I volunteered to do that actually , but there wasn't anymore commentary on the discussion in meta so I haven't yet

badp

I'm sure 500 questions are a breeze! ;)

tzenes

@badp I have no idea

alexanderpas

9:51 PM

vote to close: belongs on meta

tzenes

I do know people do stuff like that on wikipedia

Arda Xi

@tzenes This isn't Wikipedia, in case you forgot.

badp

@alex, I think chat is an extension of meta

it definitely works better than comment wars

tzenes

no, but its evidence that people do stupid things on similar scale

alexanderpas

no, there is a clear difference, you usually think longer about your post when posting in meta.

tzenes

9:52 PM

I think if all Starcraft questions are about RTS there is no need to put the RTS tag after them

Arda Xi

@tzenes no, wikipedia is a different platform

tzenes

its implicit

@ArdaXi both platforms with user moderation

Arda Xi

@tzenes err.. no

tzenes

and since retagging is user moderation, that makes it relavent

Arda Xi

Wikipedia doesn't have rate-limiting

alexanderpas

9:53 PM

also, wikipedia has no voting system, all are working on the same set.

Arda Xi

it doesn't have a limit on who can edit

tzenes

I don't know how rate-limiting works on retagging

it seems like there is a limit though

alexanderpas

Hello Fellow Robot!

Arda Xi

it's like, two or three in rapid succession?

tzenes

@alexanderpas is that per user or per tag?

badp

9:54 PM

*Hello Fellow COOKIE RETAGGER FROM HELL™!

alexanderpas

Hello IP ban

tzenes

@arda was that a question?

FallenAngelEyes

Tag usage has been covered a bit here:

2

Q: When should we use genre tags?

Should every question about a game include a tag that fits it into one or more genres? Should we only use genre tags for game-rec and family questions? Should we not have any genre tags at all? I removed the roguelike tag from http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5174/how-can-i-survive-ge...

discussion tagging

Arda Xi

@tzenes It was rhetorical

alexanderpas

4 mins ago, by alexanderpas

vote to close: belongs on meta

Arda Xi

9:55 PM

@alexanderpas stop quoting yourself :)

badp

Q: Mandatory tags for platform?

We appear to have instant consensus that a game tag (or game series tag) should be applied to all questions on specific titles. link The only added value I see in adding it is for filtering purposes - and while that is admittedly useful, I think it will encumber the tagging sys...

discussion tagging

tzenes

@ArdaXi so is it two or three?

Arda Xi

@tzenes I am unsure.

You would have to ask the devs

tzenes

@ArdaXi so basically you don't know. Could be 8k for all you know

Arda Xi

@tzenes No, I have reached it

badp

9:56 PM