Auden Young

unrelatedly, i sure am tired of people in the comments saying 'this isn't helpful for me, so therefore this shouldn't be a thing' - such a strange argument.

i do understand to some extent what you're getting at, and the privacy issue is i think a legitimate counterargument to the proposal, but i'm not sure it's as extreme as you're making it out to be.

@Catija and personal websites aren't defining?

(just a general note that I added the idea of selecting multiple pronoun sets to the overall proposal; thank you for the idea @cairdcoinheringaahing)

@Catija yes, and there's a field for location/personal website/github/etc already. i'm not sure i follow the objection here.

@cairdcoinheringaahing i'd also say that more inclusivity, even if it's not as much as would be optimal is a step forward.

@cairdcoinheringaahing right, that is why my last option is for 'other'/'please ask'. i do think your situation would be covered by the ability to select multiple options though.

@cairdcoinheringaahing or it could be made so you can select multiple options. i also included an option to 'ask for pronouns' for this reason.

@cairdcoinheringaahing could you elaborate on why you think this? i'd be happy to think about the objections/respond to them/propose alternatives.

@Catija I understand that, but - you also currently have a location field which is certainly personal information, the field wouldn't be required, and people are already putting their pronouns in their bio in a way that honestly shares more personal information than if there was a pronoun field (for the tendencies i state in my proposal).

@AudenYoung also to be clear, i understand there are objections to it, i'm mainly just worried about less well-intentioned objections.

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes, i've addressed this at multiple points in the feature request

how are all your days going

love preparing to be downvoted to oblivion :)

it's pretty warm out by now, at least where i'm at.

what's wrong with short sleeved shirts?

which to be fair is excellent.

isn't that just chocolate milk?

even when it is warm out, hot chocolate is good.

no hot chocolate?

@Mithical ah yep. that's me.

why do you ask

@Mithical oh, lmao. i haven't looked at medium in a while. yep, that's me.

i'm afraid i don't know what that means.

@Mithical ay02?

thank you for linking; it did not go where i thought it was going to go.

@Shog9 that's actually really interesting.

or whatever variant

@JourneymanGeek ...you could kick me from the conversation discord and use that

@MonicaCellio i'm trying my best to not lump you into a bucket. i apologize if i'm not doing a good enough job; i'll try to make distinctions.

@forest that's reasonable, i suppose.

@MonicaCellio i'm aware. for most, i'm not sure this is the case.

@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man but that's not quite what i'm saying; i'm saying that people come above personal preference.

@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man ...i don't think i've thought enough about it/know enough about utilitarianism to actually answer that.

these are genuine questions.

@forest er...no? genuine question here.

@forest and do you feel that because it's hard to remember and it feels weird, for example, then do you really rank that as equal with someone's comfort?

@forest perhaps you need to think about why you're so uncomfortable with using the right pronouns.

anyway, i have to go eat dinner; i'll be back.

@forest for me, whether i'm comfortable with it is besides the point.

but i think you would also phrase your question differently for different perspectives @Mithrandir24601.

i would lean toward the rule of 'no crossposting unless it's been one week, there haven't been answers, and you keep things properly updated and link to everything'

and i kind of agree with a lot of your perspective here, and we definitely need to come up with a specific policy - we just haven't really sat down and said, okay, this is our policy, if that makes sense.

there's definitely significant overlap - there's a lot of physics specific questions but lots that would be okay on CS.

@StrongBad ping me in the TL if you really want to help resolve this. I can give you context on both issues, but I don't know the appropriate way forward.

@MonicaCellio Ah, thank you, will update to address that. // As for SE being aware, doesn't hurt to report it again. Is there any other way to escalate the issue?

@MonicaCellio yeah, that's...yeah. Very accurate. I wasn't sure how much I could actually share about what was in the TL. I did submit a report to SE about that this morning, actually, which will presumably be handled in 6 to 8 weeks. (Also, does this appropriately represent your position on pronouns? I don't want to misrepresent it.)

@tudor I find it rather...disingenuous of you to phrase things in the way you did. People are actually and legitimately offended by using the wrong pronouns; no need for the quotation marks. Also, as I said, most LGBTQ+ folks find the use of proper pronouns really important. Would a broader meta question have just gotten the answer you want, or would it have gotten the answer that truly would help the LGBT community? I can't say I'm nearly as sure as you appear to be.

@tudor I literally cannot share transcripts for this, but what is mentioned in this post is pretty broadly agreed upon.

@Marco13 I'll be blunt then: a lot of the people who use those phrasings/arguments outside of SE are transphobic folks. They're really classic arguments that you run into over and over again (speaking from experience). Just because someone uses them doesn't mean they're transphobic, but enough transphobic people have used them that they've become, as I said, a red flag. I don't know what to tell you as for #3 - maybe think through why you're making those arguments, and why you think they're legitimate? It's hard because it can hurt [e.g., why is grammar more important than someone's identity?]