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00:30
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, +1 more (432): Someone is asking for my bank account. Am I going to get hacked or robbed? by Thomas roberto on money.SE
00:51
GOOD MORNING
 
1 hour later…
02:17
GOOD MORNING
02:48
the manual duplicate banner on this post included "not a duplicate" ^^;
I have a feeling of ... ... ... ... ... read more >>> android.stackexchange.com/election/5#post-203649
I think Evan is a recognized identity by many CMs?
Hhh......
sigh
@ɪʙᴜɢ weren't you planning on standing?
@JourneymanGeek yep, but in back off
02:58
We (or at least, I) know who is user1126...
becaus i coudn't find the "ON" swtch on my bac
ya
Also, I'm almost a little surprised at the lack of interest there.
anyway... j voudrais que vous m'voyez à la prochaine élection!
@JourneymanGeek I only remember the... old birds that are still active in moderation... not so many since previous election
@Somewhat Well, its not a good sign ._.
03:12
Hhh... now this is weird... there is an urge for me to nominate myself, or to abandon the election...
03:25
in two years time people will forget IOS even exists
L'égoïsme avec lequel je m'sens familier.
04:10
It's too bad that SE doesn't have an explicit policy against "gaming the system".
Gaming the system means deliberately using Wikipedia policies and guidelines in bad faith to thwart the aims of Wikipedia. Gaming the system may represent an abuse of process, disruptive editing, or otherwise evading the spirit of community consensus. Editors typically game the system to make a point, to further an edit war, or to enforce a specific non-neutral point of view. If an editor finds a loophole or trick that allows them to evade community standards or misuse administrator tools, it should not be treated the same as a good-faith mistake. However, Wikipedia sanctions are meant to be...
Example: there's a policy that states that one can't revert the same edit more than three times in 24 hours; performing a fourth revert just after the 24 hours lapse can still result in a block.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog People will get quite irate if you game the system
Then Bad Things Happen
A lot on SE assumes good intent, and humans making decisions after all. We're heavier on case law over business logic
IIRC its possible to trigger a rollback war mod message on yourself
 
1 hour later…
05:28
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer, link at end of answer (238): Move playlist from one application to another in android by Michael Plant on android.SE
05:43
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in link text in body (162): How will I create PBN netwok? by Bhavitra123 on writing.SE
Can someone with 10k+ on SO please post a screenshot of meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/250000/…?
Rob
Rob
It's a test question. The content links to the question itself: i.sstatic.net/pb2bs.png . How did you even find it?
06:06
@Rob I remembered that all question IDs on MSO that are less than 250000 redirect to MSE
What is the close reason?
Rob
Rob
> This question does not appear to be about Stack Overflow or the software that powers the Stack Exchange network, within the scope defined in the help center.
The original text was:
> *Want to be part of the first question-closing on the new site?*
> I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist.

> Have at it.
06:25
ahh
I've been tasked with babysitting my cousin's kid
y room.... isn't exactly childsafe ._.
06:38
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body (100): Elixir De Beaute UK by qapsamad on apple.SE
@JourneymanGeek at least you have some spot where you can change diapers in the room? ;)
Mooring
06:47
@Tinkeringbell hmm?
@SmokeDetector train wrecker!
@JourneymanGeek pretty sure @nicael did it.... ;)
heh, pretty sure those are two socks of Evan:
The first commented on his nomination... can't really be just some random user.
Worth flagging to check for voting frauds?
yesterday, by Something Bad Happened
[upvote-pls] 38 times so I can nominate for Android.SE moderator.
@Somewhat haha, oops. Something Bad indeed! lol
07:19
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, potentially bad keyword in username (87): Lossless audio conversion from FLAC to ALAC using ffmpeg by Tonya Rabish on unix.SE
07:44
@ShadowWizard no
@JourneymanGeek are there boards and wires and random circuitry strewn about?
Gotta keep the loaded guns in every corner of the room, too.
08:01
@Magisch more or less
and cables everywhere
Do you have a soldering station in there? Can teach the baby how to solder then
get a leg up on the competition^^
I have soldering stuff... somewhere
Cables everywhere
@ShadowWizard Pretty sure Shog compared people in this room to toddlers back there.
It's shog so that's ok
08:23
I will reborn?
@Magisch isn't my kid.
Besides, I'm sure the geekiness skips a generation
My dad's boring. My grandad was a proto-geek of sorts
My dad's a hardware geek, I'm not at all ._.
Maybe if you also marry a geek, you'll get geek² kids
@Magisch Its impossible to know ;p
and my culture is really bad at creating geeky sorts
08:38
@JourneymanGeek perhaps right now ;) Once there's a kid it's easy to figure out :P
@Tinkeringbell I mean finding a geeky girl ;p
@JourneymanGeek so... where you change his (her?) diaper?! :P
@JourneymanGeek Ohh. Yeah finding a geeky girl may be hard ;)
@ShadowWizard that I can work out
@Tinkeringbell oh lol
08:39
When your girl is geekier than you...
@Somewhat I think if I find a girl geekier than me, and she's ok with moving and it gets anywhere, I'm buying a goddamned lottery ticket.
@Somewhat my dad was a carpenter, he also made sculptures. :D
He sold them in South Africa and sent money home.
If she says "oh, yeah, I'm interested" I won the lottery.
@JourneymanGeek good! You'll have to...
@ShadowWizard My parents worked it out on their own after all
but I'd need to find a mrs geek first. Then have kids
that takes longer than 6-8 weeks
08:44
6-8 years
Well possibly less. But 2-3 if everything actually goes to plan
or goes off plan the correct way ;)
@JourneymanGeek to change diapers?? No, if you babysit toddlers that's part of the package... ;)
@ShadowWizard oh, wasn't for long
They can do it any time...
Best time is right after changing their diaper. lol
ah
Old one, bag, babywipes, new one?
08:47
@JourneymanGeek something like that. ;)
But more like adults who clean the toilet seat before starting: they like the environment to be clean. :P
And now change of topic before this room becomes to smelly! :D
So... what did you have for breakfast? @rene @πάνταῥεῖ @ᔕᖺᘎᕊ @Pandya @Somewhat ;-)
what did what?
Here you go
@ShadowWizard waffles
08:53
don't you mean you?
oh lol
No idea how it became a toy!
@Somewhat were they tasty?
09:26
@Tinkeringbell maybe playing devil advocate, but I read that phrase as a claim that:
> "we made mistake" != "we made mistake and are sorry for it"
09:44
@Derpy Mistakes were made - and I'm pretty convinced at this point that... making it right is going to be damned hard, and take a lot of stuff that... folks really want to get right.
It does feel like perfect is the enemy of good
But I don't think any one thing will fix it. Its not about an apology. It is, but there's about a dozen other things that need to get worked on too IMO
look, I didn't want to give any suggestion on how to handle this since I believe my personal view is pretty clear but probably deemed too much "fairies, songs and dancing unicorns" by both armies.
I was only pointing out that probably @Andras never intended to imply that an explanation was needed but just that so far many of the messages we received were just acknowledging and explaining the problem while trying to avoid any form of expression of actual feelings about said problem.
Huh? What drama is going on? :/
The same as usual, again?
Also, it was already way too late 3 days after, so whether or not it's 2 weeks or 5 is unimportant at that point
10:00
@JohnDvorak but...
@Magisch just commenting on already made comments.
point
Tags can be marked as ignored. Can I mark individual questions as ignored? I am thinking of an existing userscript or similar for this task.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer (131): Clustering a long list of strings (words) into similarity groups by siri Techenoid on stats.SE
@Szabolcs nope
10:10
@Derpy My reaction was meant to point out that if you have to explain to people that people make mistakes before making your apology, you've met the rare a-hole that's never going to accept the apology no matter what, because they stand firm in the belief that people aren't allowed to make mistakes and/or are supposed to work without making mistakes
there are levels at play here though
for some subset of all possible mistakes, the general expectation are not to make them
e.g if I kicked a server off the rack or something
Don't confuse hooliganism with an honest mistake.
Of course people are often expected to not make mistakes. But if you have to point out that people make mistakes...
@Tinkeringbell and again, while that is probably true, I was pointing out that Andras never said he felt an explanation that mistakes can be made. On the opposite, he seemed to want to point out that he felt that an explanation that mistakes are possible is the only thing that was giveng.
10:14
even honest mistakes can be unforgiveable
Before you feel like you can make an apology for a mistake at all..
if I for instance accidentally wiped one of the servers by misclicking
Something is just wrong.
or sent out 15k emails to a wrong list
those are exactly the kind of thing that is forgiven all the time.
10:16
I think anyways that people feel that just an apology is not enough for severe mistakes, it either has to be followed by real consequences (please no) or a comprehensive write up of how it happened, what was done to ensure it won't again, and what led to it.
@Magisch yep, "has to be followed" as in "not be replaced with"
@Magisch oh, there's possibly good concequences.
@Tinkeringbell pretty sure if I did either I'd be out of a job instantly
@Derpy exactly
@Magisch Depends on your workplace then. Mine would probably say that if I misclicked, they shouldn't have made it as easy to misclick.
10:20
But I still haven't reread the literature
and e-mails are sent to the wrong mailing lists a lot.
Mine expects that if you're near something that has serious damage potential that you triple check yourself before doing something
@Magisch that's not what anyone wants.
and on the short term - what we're likely to see is a clearer idea of who handles these things.
Anyway. I still feel explaining that 'people make mistakes' is a prime example of what Dutch people call 'betutteling'.
@Tinkeringbell people totally made mistakes.
10:22
The example with the emails was deliberate though. With GDPR, sending emails to the wrong list has the potential to just end the company flat out if you get audited and fined as a result of a complaint
Now I really want to yell at people but... I'm not sure what good it would do
@JourneymanGeek Yes. But saying 'People make mistakes all the time, we're sorry'... It diminishes the quality of an apology to me, a lot. It's acting like I don't know people make mistakes...
Andras' point was that we'll get no apology, just a write up of events
@Tinkeringbell well, depends on where you see the problem. I think that some stuff's fundamentally broken
Or 'mistakes are inevitable'.
@Magisch Well, considering everything, that might just be as well
10:24
@Tinkeringbell or "Our ways of dealing with these are messed and we need to fix it"
I'm actually semi-glad they're taking their time for this. The time to save the "too late" part of "too little, too late" is already past, might aswell make the other aspect of it count
But to be honest I thought this room had moved on and was a lot more fun again. I'm not in a mood right now to get dragged back into feeling sorry for myself. See ya!
'People make mistakes all the time, we're sorry'... does indeed diminishes the quality of an apology. Starting with "People make mistakes all the time" already seem to indicate that you think what you have done isn't really bad because "people do mistakes all the times" - it should be something that was bound to happen eventually and the "victim" shouldn't be surprised or complain because it is just natural.
now, if you remove the "we are sorry" part...
to me it just seems you are diminishing the importance of the issue / error
"I am not evil, people make mistakes all the time, why are you looking at me?"
Basically, it makes me feel more like you are annoyed that people are making such noise out of a thing that "happens all the time" instead of being genuinely sorry.
@Magisch no, just past tense. I don't make decisive claims of a fortune-telling nature
@Derpy and exactly that too
10:31
but again, I was raised with hugs and over the top cry scenes, shonen style, so I must be biased in that direction.
@Derpy I don't think its really about that. Or Just that
That's something for the short run, but I think there's also a matter of examining, or re-examining how the relationship between SO/SE communities and the company goes.
@Derpy must be rough growing up in Ponyville
@JourneymanGeek oh, never went as far as attempting to examine the causes of the problem.
@Derpy eh, I think at this point its abundantly clear, and has been made so.
@Derpy that's why I think an apology is 80% of the needful that needs doing
10:35
@JourneymanGeek maybe your perspective is colored by insider information you have, but outside of 1-2 comments and 2 answers on meta the public has recieved no reaction
The apology is what makes it not seem like you're crapping on your users on purpose
@Magisch More that I'm an old timer
Indeed, even the current communication reads more like "I'm annoyed that I even need to talk about this" then anything else
@Magisch if that's the case, we're... kinda screwed
Many arguments were made on that meta comment that basically said a part of the staff is "mad" at the community for "reasons". That is at least a proof that the relationship between us and the staff is ill. But IF I had to say something, I would add that I have the feeling that the relationship between the staff employees and the company is ill too.
Now, consider this:
10:38
Perhaps it's just a small but vocal part of the staff being obnoxious
we may be angry "against" a staff that only "owns" a site we happen to like. If we really get mad, we can leave at ani time.
now imagine being part of that staff.
if you are angry at the company.. well.. those are the same who pay you.
And in that case, leaving may be much more harder
I keep coming back to this:
Oct 25 at 16:33, by Tim Post
Well you know, when I have one group of users shouting "We're on internet time here, and you're not going fast enough!" in one ear, and another shouting "I hope you die from cancer!" in the other, I have only but two middle fingers to give.
If your company treats you the way it treats the community it's time for a new job
Justified as that feeling may be, that general stance comes out in every piece of communication we recieved so far
Of course the company pampers the staff, which is understandable. That explains most of the no-mistakes theme
10:42
@AndrasDeak "Time for a new job" is not an option sometimes. So, at least give them the benefit of doubt - I think many of them aren't happy about the current situation too.
Then again pretending that mistakes are not due to wrong decisions by staff members is...detrimental to being taken seriously
@Derpy I frankly don't care. What the staff thinks is immaterial. It's actions I concern myself with
Actions by The Company, mostly
(Insofar as Tim and other public-facing wetware APIs are The Company)
We as a community are a demanding, loud and opinionated bunch. Doesn't seem to be working so well for us
that was my point. Keep a line between "the company" and the "staff employees"
@Magisch the latter crosses the line
@JourneymanGeek obviously
10:47
And there's been other things
some of the employees answers are obviously venting frustration and some may find them rude, but keep in mind that some of their action may be imposed by company level decision.
I'm not blaming tim at all, I think he has exceptional composure and is a lot better then I could ever be at weathering a PR crapstorm like this, but
@Magisch I actually think we may need to be measuredly louder
I think what's at play here is just the dynamics of modern informational culture
SE is caught between a rock and a hard place
To go back in time even further, I think many noticed that Tim posted a series of very snarky comments at how the GDPR/ToS thing was handled
10:48
@Magisch my honest opinion is that SE has taken certain aspects of community for granted
I think the term is 'store of Goodwill'
Jon wrote about that
And that's at a low
Back in "ToS incident days" he was the lucky face to be chosen to take the blame... he didn't seem very happy with the course of action he had to implement...
10:50
In general, people assume the worst of a for profit company and have to be proven wrong. This dynamic is catching up to SE now.
@Magisch and SE had an extraordinary start
But imo it's not something unsustainable
<^obvious topic change attempt>
@Mithrandir wrong series, you are clearly a rock, not a flower. @rene is a flower.
Have you guys seen Undertale 2 already BTW?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body (99): what is field engineering by harika on android.SE
10:57
Nov 5 at 9:57, by Derpy
DeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRun‌​eDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRun‌​eDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRuneDeltaRune
@JohnDvorak no, never heard about that game.
I loved what happens just after the character selection screen
The "Good morning, Chrono" thing?
nope, didn't notice any reference to any other game in that scene.
11:16
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in body (36): My B1/B 2 Visa will expire by user86666 on travel.SE
11:54
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body (66): Hydra error invalid target definition by Ben the hacker on security.SE
fright-driven customer support
How many of the asked questions on MSE are some random programming questions? Like half?
Too many yes
12:01
@Dukeling not that much, but 5~10 a day is a visible number
the the really funny thing is... I opened the ask a question page to check if someone really snapped and...
@Derpy but if there's no official response, and a bunch of very bad unofficial staff response, we're stuck with interpreting the latter as policy
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, pattern-matching website in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer (198): Creality Ender-3 slanted nozzle by AngelaKinsey on 3dprinting.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer (118): Writing research statement by AngelaKinsey52 on academia.SE
12:31
@JourneymanGeek seems like the kind of thing Shog would do
ABOUT stack exchange
LOUD NOISES
@Mithrandir .... that's kinda what I was thinking...
heh
it's about time they put him in charge
actually he kinda is
@ShadowWizard boterham kaas, karnemelk, koffie
12:41
@JourneymanGeek in charge of community pacification, perhaps
@AndrasDeak heh. I actually think that's not a bad idea. But there's actually a growing number of people I think can pull it off.
Not as many as I'd like, but, its a start
But, well, I got no say in this ;)
@JourneymanGeek put forth your best angry ash bark
@Magisch I honestly don't think that's what's needed
(It was a joke I wanted an excuse to use the picture from yesterday)
12:57
@rene butter, milk, coffee?
maybe more than 5~10, that's based on what I see
according to your data, it's likely there are 30+ daily
@ShadowWizard sandwich cheese .... rest matches enough
@rene But really? Buttermilk in the mornings? Just the smell makes me nauseous any time of day :P
What do you have against buttermilk?
Smell
It has this really sour-y smell
Like stuff gone bad :P
13:07
@Tinkeringbell yes, better for my health.
@Tinkeringbell good buttermilk dosen't smell bad ._.
To be honest, I have the same reaction to some yoghurts... I just don't like sour dairy products, I guess.
I can stand pretty strong smelling cheeses, but sour dairy? Ugh.
I wonder if parrots are lactose intolerant
they apparently can't taste heat...
hands @Tinkeringbell a chilli
Can't taste the heat but certainly bring the heat, watch out @JourneymanGeek
(I like this picture and will find excuses to use it)
13:23
@Tinkeringbell ^ relative?
@Magisch I'm pretending to be a parrot, not a freaking cassowary!
@Derpy Perhaps, he's not green ;)
@Tinkeringbell To my best knowledge that is not a cassowary
parrots too can be vicious
Cassowaries do more damage though, I think they're more dangerous?
13:55
Emus on the other hand...
that is a cassowary
Defeated the australian army
@Magisch If you visit a zoo like Avifauna, that has cassowaries, there are warning signs ;)
Emus can be kept as pets on the other hand
defeated the australian army
Between the world wars.
13:57
So cute
@Magisch oh, a chocobo.
Black one, even.
should be able to climb mountain and walk on water
@rene yummy!
@JourneymanGeek it has a strong unique smell, some just don't like it. Like some kinds of fruit, too lazy to translate. (e.g. "afarsemon" in Hebrew has a special smell I don't like.)
The persimmon (sometimes spelled persimon) is the edible fruit of a number of species of trees in the genus Diospyros. The most widely cultivated of these is the Asian or Japanese persimmon, Diospyros kaki. Diospyros is in the family Ebenaceae, and a number of non-persimmon species of the genus are grown for ebony timber. == Names and etymology == The word Diospyros comes from the ancient Greek words "dios" (δῐος) and "pyron" (πῡρον). A popular etymology construed this as "divine fruit", or as meaning "wheat of Zeus" or "God's pear" and "Jove's fire". The dio-, as shown by the short vowel 'i...
apparently
@JourneymanGeek huh! So close. ;)
@Derpy I miss the Chocobo races in FF games...
@JourneymanGeek my sister's parrot really likes bamba, it is really funny to see him eating it. ;)
@ShadowWizard does anyone on your part of the world hate those packing peanuts?
14:10
@JourneymanGeek packing peanuts? What's that?
@ShadowWizard I simply miss the second F in recent FF games...
@ShadowWizard its a joke
@Derpy yeah they made it way too realistic and way not enough fantasy. :(
Foam peanuts, also known as foam popcorn, packing peanuts or packing noodles, are a common loose-fill packaging and cushioning material used to prevent damage to fragile objects during shipping. They are shaped to interlock when compressed and free flow when not compressed. They are roughly the size and shape of an unshelled peanut and commonly made of expanded polystyrene foam. 50–75 millimetres (2-3 in) of peanuts are typically used for cushioning and void filling packaging applications. The original patent was filed for by Robert E. Holden in 1962 and was granted in 1965. == Polystyrene... ==
@ShadowWizard old FF died with FF6 imo. FF9 was a desperate attempt at getting back to the roots.
then... nothing
so, now I moved to Tales / Dragon Quest
14:18
@JourneymanGeek ohh had no idea it is called like that.. Lol. Well yes they make that terrible noise when squashed.
@Derpy I really liked FF8. Why you didn't?
Why don't we just automatically close questions marked as unsalvageable in Triage?
@ShadowWizard from the thumbnail I expected a rat
IDK, only SO has it ;p
14:36
huff...
@ShadowWizard it is not "bad"... just not "cartoonish"
I don't know how to explain... in a way it lacks the humor the old ones had
What's the URL where you can view all activity on a post again? I can never remember it. I thought it was just to append /activity after the question ID but apparently that's not it.
are support emails reply-able?
@AndrasDeak lol totally not a rat! 🐀
@andmyself puff
emails from [email protected], as a response of a support ticket submitted from the Contact link on the bottom of every page.
14:50
@MikeTheLiar timeline?
@Derpy well I played the older ones after that one. Liked 8 more.
@AndrasDeak that doesn't appear to be it, either. Or at least, it redirects back to the public url.
@MikeTheLiar You need to replace /questions/ with /posts/ if you're not. https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/1/timeline
posts/ ^ (ninjad)
14:53
I believe there's a userscript for this
There is a userscript for anything, even making toasts.
What about brewing tea from teapots?
!!/tea ɪʙᴜɢ
@ShadowWizard brews a cup of jasmine tea for @ɪʙᴜɢ
@SomethingBadHappened my hero
That worked.
14:58
@MikeTheLiar It's just a short URL. It's about time you remember that line.
but the trap is on questions/ to posts/though
I will commit it to memory post haste.
It's post-time to remember that line?
@andmyself Visit revision first so you get /posts/<id>/revision, then replace the last part
@ShadowWizard probably you like the "movie style" ones. I like the Guru Guru style ones.
14:59
assuming it has an edit history
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