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2:01 PM
Anon < Registered < 10k user < 20k user < mod < employee mod < CM < dev
tfw I'm the second lowest on the ladder :(
In terms of available UIs.
I swear I have to get 10k on SO eventually
2:03 PM
Does Mr. Friend count as a dev? @Oded
Or do PM's have even better UI?
Nope nope nope
I spend so much time reviewing and flagging and reading stuff and curating stuff I rarely answer anymore
So the PM of a dev see less things than the dev?
PMs get registered user UI (+ some employee only UI), if also a mod then the employee mod UI.
2:05 PM
@ShadowWizard yep. The dev UI bits are usually just modified popups with extra options, or special pages that only devs can access.
We don't usually modify the main UI for dev.
must be interesting to be a dev
@Oded option like "Mark this change invalid, send warning to developer"? ;)
@Magisch you get to see all the secrets, yeah.... :D
@Magisch you should see how game developers code things. They have special debug UIs that control all kinds of things in the game code, to aid debugging and support.
@Oded No I mean on stack in particular
I know dev only UIs I'm a software dev myself and our ERP application has them
No more than being a dev anywhere else, though the community communication bits tend to be unique here.
2:07 PM
@Oded makes sense, that would make it harder to track/reproduce bugs
The behind the scenes of SE is probably one of the most interesting things out there
so much unique stuff to understand and read
We have a debug UI in our platform. It crashes.
I actually think that being as transparent to the community as we are is one of the most interesting things in the job :)
@rene debug the debug ui?
yeah ...
It is bugs all the way down
2:08 PM
@Oded Maybe that's a chicken and egg thing
Could be
I'm probably so interested in SE because the Devs and CMs are so transparent
on most sites I know absolutely nothing beyond what the UI tells me
@Oded "employee mod" ?
So, any non CM, non dev employee?
(that's a new one.)
I wonder where SRE falls in there
Permissions systems in my company are boring
@JourneymanGeek if no diamond I think no special UI or permissions
2:11 PM
There's the IT department, in which everyone has all access to everything and all the passwords, and then there's the rest
Where permissions are more granular
@Magisch hah. That's about normal.
@JourneymanGeek someone who is an employee and also has a diamond. Most employees don't have diamonds.
@Oded thought that was the case ;p
@Oded Is there anything an employee can't do that a diamond can?
UI and action wise?
Yeah, can't see any need for SE cook to have a diamond. :)
2:12 PM
cause most of the mod/employees are designer types or SRE from what I remember.
Or is it just what someone should do
Yeah, they can't do most things. Would be gated by rep, like everyone else.
Even though they have the diamond?
Like the employee diamond?
Joe Friend couldn't even edit, and suggested few edits on MSE. lol
2:14 PM
@ShadowWizard though in theory, Joe could have a diamond
he chooses not to
@JourneymanGeek most are sales, actually.
@JourneymanGeek but why?
@ShadowWizard so he can grok the system
@Magisch most employees don't have a diamond.
He isn't an SE insider
2:14 PM
@JourneymanGeek but he needs the diamond to tag with mod tags
@Oded hardly notice sales types around. Certainly not in the room that shall not be discussed.
It is indeed by his choice. He wants to learn the system and gain knowledge by doing.
@ShadowWizard or just ask someone to help
@JourneymanGeek true. They don't usually interact on the sites/chat.
@Oded So with "employee mod" you meant those employees that have a diamond somewhere but not one of those universal diamonds some employees get
got it
2:15 PM
@Magisch those are CM's only, probably
@Magisch CMs and Q&A devs are the only people who get diamonds everywhere.
Ah, okay
And Jobs devs got only on SO? @Oded
(also, historically, very few people who are doing Q&A stuff's 'outsiders' from what I've seen. @Oded can school me if I'm talking out my ass ;p)
There was CHAOS, but that was kinda intentionally an experiment.
I still think DAG team should have some unique symbol, like CHAOS had. :D
2:17 PM
It's interesting to learn more about the machinations on SE
@ShadowWizard Sometimes. Usually because they need to show employee creds when responding to meta or adding mod-only tags to posts.
@ShadowWizard spade? ;p
Might fit.... :D
@JourneymanGeek certainly used to be true, but... isn't just about every dev part of the community these days?
though, I'd argue DAG isn't anything new - just that its not all Q&A stuff now.
2:18 PM
Might be though that I'm weird with my unquenchable thirst for technical details and minutiae of procedure
You sound like a programmer, @Magisch
@Oded well, which is why Joe trying to work out SE on his own, sans the diamond is a pretty sensible idea IMO
Factoids and tidbits about SE's inner workings sticks in my brain like spongebob squarepants episodes used to
@JourneymanGeek true. The "mission" encompasses more that Q&A.
@Oded I should think so, that's my profession :p
2:19 PM
@JourneymanGeek indeed. I've found Joe to be very sensible.
@Oded most of my interaction with him has been through chat (in places) and the horrors of MSE (which I think might leave him scarred for life ;p)
Not sure how much my opinion matters but he seems ok
2:21 PM
@Telkitty they'ew not adopting out birds atm - run out of funds :(
starting feature request
@Oded might it also be that you worked only at interesting places beforehand to say that SE is as interesting as anywhere else?
@JourneymanGeek I also interacted with him via the Mentorship project R.I.P, then again when ranting about the new top bar... I poked him while he was sick, and felt bad about it. :/
@Telkitty out of curiosity, do the roosters help protect the hens?
2:23 PM
@Magisch Every place is interesting in its own way. Even if its horrible. Especially when it is.
Because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be too stoked to maintain severely aging VBA/VB6 code in a boring side contractor for the semiconductor industry
@ShadowWizard Mentorship's an SO thing, so I kinda missed all of it.
It's not offensively bad but it's really bland sometimes
@JourneymanGeek with the gentle hand of Animuson ;)
Like the white noise of programming
2:24 PM
@Magisch tech is tech. Most places have something special they are doing, something technically challenging.
Top bar ranting, I've seen much more - some of it pretty bad.
@Oded ._. It depends.
@Oded Does making your software run on win95 since the machines are too old to be upgraded count?
@Magisch we have questions on it on SU. Its more common than you think
@JourneymanGeek heh, that's the one with trolling mods... (same OP, I mean)
@ShadowWizard ya, had some interaction with him in the past
Amusingly, I can't remember what ._.
2:27 PM
@JourneymanGeek yup. Weird, on other sites he appears to be fine.
Looks like MSE gets the worst out of people sometimes. :(
@Magisch it certainly makes a unique technical challenge...
Maybe because they suddenly get downvotes and people don't agree with what they say.
@ShadowWizard that's a risk you take on meta ;p
@JourneymanGeek yeah, but most people don't understand that...
Well, it's like Survival: we end up only with the best. :P
> This post has been locked while disputes about its content are being resolved. For more info visit meta.
meta-meta, here we go~
2:29 PM
Q: This post has been locked while disputes about its content are being resolved. For more info visit meta... On Meta.SE

TimThis post was locked (reasons are not needed for this post): My comment is about the link "visit meta". That isn't especially helpful as we are on Meta.SE, the site it redirects us to. Should this link be changed or removed?

metas all the way down?
@ShadowWizard well, it took me about 6-7 years here before I 'got' what people want on meta. Almost.
@JourneymanGeek what you did before that?
@ShadowWizard just answered random stuff
2:33 PM
I've gotten more reputation this year than I have in the preceding years combined I think
buh @Oded couldn't you retag a minute earlier so I could have used the hammer? ;)
and ugh. Dupes
Not yet gotten past "I know this" FGITW
though it's normal for a human to remember all the tid-bits about SE
2:36 PM
(just a reference to a particular user in this chat room ;p)
I still suspect @Norm is the anonymous editor...
@Success well, now he desires to remember everything
@Success I'm vaguely obligated to make jokes about being a dog, even here.
On the internet, everybody is a dog
2:41 PM
hav hav
3:01 PM
> always be a dog unless you can be an unicorn then always be an unicorn
So... code is now MIT licensed, right
Q: The MIT License – Clarity on Using Code on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange

samthebrand Update (Dec. 22): Thanks, everyone, for your feedback to this proposal. We're going to digest this one over the holidays and should have a follow-up announcement answering your questions and addressing your concerns after the new year. We won't be making any hurried decisions on this topic, an...

Should the footer be updated?
@AaronHall no, it isn't. Where does it say that?
> Starting Feb 1, 2016, all new code contributions to Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange will be covered by the MIT License.
from the link above.
3:17 PM
Start reading a bit higher. :) An update from Jan 14 links to another question which says "We're going to delay the implementation for now "
"For now" apparently became almost two years. Huh.
I want to tell some paranoid users to chill out, and that GNU code posted on in answer is fair use.
@AdamLear .... 6 to 8 .... ;)
Ok, rene gets kicked for pinging SE staff ...
These posts are versioned - no need to keep contradictory outdated info in them. At least strike them through or post a clear disclaimer.
I thought the delay was for a couple months.
Yeah, but not when there was so much push back that the risk going forward would cause more issues then it tried to solve
Anyways. I post in my profile that my code is MIT licensed anyways.
> Code licenses: CC-BY-SA/MIT (But I'm not litigious.)
3:24 PM
@rene an estimate can't be wrong if you never specify the time units :)
That's the cornerstone of my todo list
Question for the room:
Suppose you have two files "foo.css" and "foo.min.css". After losing about 2h trying to understand why you classes were not applied you notice that "foo.css" isn't actually "foo.css" but instead "notFoo.css" that someone renamed "foo.css"....
@Derpy closing as unclear what you're asking
@Derpy someone ... and that wasn't you, right?
@Derpy looks like Workplace.SE's job, not SO
Or Puzzle.SE
@rene asking what punishment should be given to someone that basically renamed "metro.css" to "bootstrap.css" and made me lose too much time wondering why bootstrap wasn't working as expected.
3:28 PM
"The illusion of progress"
If I didn't have spreadsheets, I wouldn't know what to do with my day.
if I didn't have spreadsheets, I'd have to use one of those old calculators with the paper tape
@Derpy they didn't want a metro style app, they heard bootstrap is hot, so the renaming was the right thing to do. Are you sure it is not just you blocking progress?
3:37 PM
:6438227 yes, ion care
@AaronHall Yeah, I've seen it referenced on Twitter with the statement "SO code is MIT licensed", subsequently retweeted.
Then again, it's not the only wrong statement on Twitter.
And who reads the terms of those licenses, anyway.
The only licence I read completely was wtfpl.net
@rene ^ here.
3:54 PM
@Derpy I think this is the first time I got exterminated ...
I assume this is off-topic: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/302445/… ?
Or did I miss we're now on pinterest?
4:14 PM
that might be a positive turn :/
4:25 PM
I read that as, "how to set appropriate height for a baby sitter".
4:46 PM
@OptimusPrime Proper attribution is pretty low on the list of pain points with new askers. It's a lot more important that they have a clear, answerable question first. In the relatively rare cases where people have copied a bit of code or some documentation, it can usually be sorted out with comments and/or edits. And it's not worth the effort if the question will be deleted automatically anyway.
Also, users usually have a problem with their own code, so it doesn't need any attribution. Or maybe... some time in the future.... source: me.
:6438632 f, an unfortunate case
5:08 PM
I want so badly to lock new users into a wizard for asking questions
... a wizard that leverages google search to suggest possible duplicates....
5:51 PM
When setting the TTL for a TXT record, shall I chose the max value or min value for a static website?
> Fun fact: our weekly meeting status doc always has a fun and/or random picture first thing: pic.twitter.com/GkqrVe1PNE -- Nick Craver at 9:17 AM - 23 Oct 2017
@canon I'd rather have a Question Warlock. Wizards are overused.
6:17 PM
If there is someone on bug duty, can you please check what is common between this and this
6:33 PM
@rene both are null reference exceptions and that's where the similarities end
@AdamLear well, that other users name is iNullpointer so that is that ....
I also checked with Edge and there it is the same
@AdamLear and null refs on something in the user profile?
no, on the question page
it doesn't matter what browser you use - it's a server-side problem
@AdamLear but, why only some 2 users are affected?
beats me. the question was "what's common between these cases" not "what is causing the bugs" :P
the issue iNullPointer is hitting seems to be somewhere in the ads code. I pinged a dev on that team to take a look at it. I'm looking at rene's problem
OK, let me know if I can be of help.
and thanks
6:38 PM
heh, it's like saying "no ads for you, here take this error instead" ;p
7:07 PM
All 43363 instances of Documentation User badge were awarded within a second. Is this a record badge-awarding speed?
I think we need to praise SqlServer for that ...
Yeah, I didn't imagine a CM going click-click-click.
@Desire I'm not opposed to question warlocks. Or question locks, in general.
7:54 PM
How much money could SE make if it implemented a javascript bitcoin miner across the network, I wonder...
8:34 PM
Should just bring unicoin back
@rene Are you still around?
@AdamLear yep
I find myself wondering whether the SE store was really unprofitable or just annoying to administer?
I just deployed the fix for your question troubles to meta. Try that question again and let me know if it loads?
hold on
\o/ it loads!
@AdamLear thanks!
Excellent. I'll write up the cause in the answer :)
8:36 PM
Speaking of Bitcoin, their election has begun... Electing 3 out of 4. One of four is a user with 411 reputation, and 0 moderation badges.
So, not that much of an election.
Basically, they should just elect Murch three times.
@Catija those can be the same thing
8:45 PM
Because if something is profitable, you can pay someone to deal with the annoying part.
only if the profit exceeds the cost of someone's time
I thought Murch was BTC mod and then stepped down?
*sufficiently profitable
@ɥʇǝS Currently pro tem. It's Nick who stepped down.
Murch is very dedicated.
8:46 PM
@Shog9 Well, that's sort of why the "just" is there... something that's annoying to administer and profitable is still useful.
... and, of course, "profitability" must include the cost of someone administering it in the equation.
@Catija It's possible we have enough people now to essentially run it in spare time and call whatever we make profit, but back when it was live that time was the CFO and office manager taking time away from doing taxes and managing offices - so even if they could do it, it was annoying because they still had full-time jobs they had to handle.
Obvs if you hire someone to distribute swag and that's their job then the fact that they have a job distributing swag isn't itself inherently annoying.
I would totally do that job... :D
When #1 is a shoo-in, I normally put #2 first to avoid losing 40-50% of my vote on #1... but in this case, Murch deserves to get all the 1st place votes.
(it might still suck, but it's not like you got hired to run an office and "oh yeah, you also need to handle all these complaints about India Customs needing bribes to actually deliver the stuff we sent folks")
That is an interesting concern, though... dealing with customs on international orders.
8:50 PM
"interesting" isn't the word I'd pick there :)
unless it's the "may you live in interesting times" kind of interesting
I sense that a 15 M questions give-away is unlikely...
Well, sure it is... You have to decide if it's swag (a gift) or product... and those things would likely affect whether there were import taxes charged for it.
But maybe give a special contest badge instead of swag? It doesn't need to clear customs.
It might be painful to figure out the first time or dozen but after that, it'd be pretty easy... And with a "shop" you could start out limiting it to specific countries for purchases. The giveaways fall into a different category, I would think. You don't generally have to pay tariffs on presents.
But I really like mail...
Eh, as someone who used to not live in the U.S... it's better to not have a store at all than having one that folks arrive at and just see "oh. it's not for me."
8:54 PM
Downloadable, 3D printable swag!
And I was in Canada. I'm still salty about a whole number of giveaways/shops/swag/whatever that was straight up unavailable. You learn to read the fine print on every deal before getting excited :)
My mom has lived overseas a couple of times and she occasionally made me order stuff for her from my computer in the states... she was at an APO address, so it wasn't as if the company wouldn't ship to her, they just blocked her IP from the store at all. :/
@Desire that's not crazy. AFAIK we looked into just printing the PT swag in Brazil at one point because it would've been (was?) a lot cheaper and easier than shipping t-shirts there.
Also the meaning of the word "contiguous".
But I would think that some of this would be solved by hosting the shop on a site that already does this sort of thing? I'm not sure how well Amazon deals with international shipping, though... but they certainly have local iterations in many English-speaking countries.
8:56 PM
If you sell through Amazon, you are still the one shipping stuff, I think.
There are two kinds of Amazon shops, I think...
Well, three... shops hosted using their site but managed locally, "fulfilled by Amazon" and "Amazon".
I'd have to think Fulfilled By Amazon would not be very cost effective for a website's t-shirts
Depends on how much you charge for them...
8:58 PM
Also, you're still kinda on the hook if your merch gets lost in shipping
People are used to paying more for licensed product.
Yeah... that's kinda shitty too though. "Love this site you've dedicated countless hours to building? Why not buy the t-shirt! Only slightly more than official NFL-licensed jerseys!"
If I wanted a SO t-shirt enough to pay $30 for it, I'd be more than motivated enough to just download the vector image and print my own. Just sayin'...
I'm not selling my work-worn Stack Overflow shirts.
Hm, FBA may still be US (or US+Canada+Mexico)-only; their website is not big on international details.
... so what's more shitty... being able to actually buy product or not getting it at all?
Or having to hope you hit 100K or win some contest?
9:02 PM
Contests seem to be mostly a thing of the past,
I think it depends on what images you're even offering, too...
when Tim had a particularly good day for some reason.
And then the delivery took a year or so.
@Catija I mean... That last one is kinda cool. You don't have to invest in anything to get the t-shirt. There's no hard decisions, like... "t-shirt or 10 Arby's venison sandwiches?" - you either qualify based on something you were doing anyway or you don't. It takes ages to earn 100K; no one's gonna do it just for a t-shirt.
BTW, if anyone here is hungry for Arby's venison, it's too late; last Saturday was deer-meat day.
@Shog9 The last one is cool, sure... but when was the last [network-wide] contest you all had? I got that SA apron for the choose your own swag last holiday season... I think that was last ... nope, two years ago...
9:04 PM
Lucky. I don't have one of those.
That "choose your own swag" sounded a lot like "going out of business".
I tried to get animuson to send you one but he said that he didn't have your address.
@Desire "We have all of this awesome stuff in a closet, please take it off our hands".
Seriously, it did look like they wanted to get rid of the inventory then won't be using, hence my assumption of no more contests.
I'll ask around, but I don't recall ever doing that drawing. (I also didn't recall that the second bullet point existed.) — Jon Ericson ♦ Jun 2 at 5:05
Well, I think for a lot of the big contests they make custom swag. For that, they were giving out backstock of stuff from site graduations and prior contests, I think... stuff they'd have little reason to send out other than if someone hits 100K or a new mod is added to a site.
9:07 PM
Were there any winners, @Jon? Or did the t-shirts sunset along with the Docs?
A silver badge "Documentation T-shirt" would be reasonable compensation, I think.
We should totally print "I contributed detailed technical information to Stack Overflow Documentation and all I got was this high-quality lovingly-designed" t-shirts.
@Desire Oh crap. I got everything lined up and forgot about it while I was on vacation. :-(
Also, I spent at least an hour slaving away on that story for the Choose your own swag contest, so you can't imply I was simply doing something I was already doing.
9:20 PM
@Catija oh, I was talking about the 100K stuff
@Shog9 Oh... well... that wasn't "the last one"... :P
the last one I read...
The amusing thing is that your response still makes sense, if you assume the 100K is too onerous to be worth trying for.
9:33 PM
Looking for an email address for testing a script in Gmail, something valid so it doesn't immediately bounce (or reply) back. Like example.com site, but for email. Is there such a thing?
I'd use [email protected], naturally, but it has automatic replies.
And you can't just use one of your own?
They all forward everything to the one I want to send from...
Ask a friend for their email address?
Eh, I'd rather create a new one than spam with test messages.
9:37 PM
[email protected] looks good.
10:17 PM
Interestingly, we do have a quality score we use to screen out questions before they are posted. We don't go into a lot of detail about what trips the filter because it'd be easier just bypass it. Last week 47% of all attempts to ask were blocked by one of our many quality filters. Showing the score dynamically as you suggest is an interesting idea for the next few steps of this project (the wizard design). It's not something we'll be able to do with the simple template. — Jon Ericson ♦ 5 hours ago
47% sounds like a lot, but it could be someone trying 20 times and succeeding on 21st.
10:34 PM
@Desire There definitely are a lot of those cases. Looking just at users rather than attempts, 1/3 of users got blocked at least one. I'd love to replace that invisible fence with something that actually teaches people how to ask rather than just presenting an inscrutable obstacle.
10:49 PM
@JonEricson If the question fails quality check, it's automatically posted at Stack Overflow Academy instead...
Last question rejected:
Score: 67
Title: how can i link multiple file together in server side and to send to another client in c socket programming
i just wrote a program that want to receive a file in server side , which is composed of multiple file in client server .how can i receive the file one by one and orderly in server side from client side and put together or link together  for sending to another client. that is very important to me
please write code

tags: c sockets server client
That capitalized I made a big difference.
Only one? There are at least three that should be capitalized.
Only one was capitalized though. And an H.
And "that is very important to me" was removed.
I have a lot of patience for poor punctuation/grammar/spelling... but I bet there's a lot of it on SO.
"please write code"... wow.
10:58 PM
Only unimportant questions are welcome here

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