Tavern on the Meta

jadarnel27

10:00 PM

Well...that's true, @Ben. I probably could find a day job where I'm not doing such...boring work.

Sam

Ask them to show where they wrote me: "stop or you will get banned"

Ben Collins

@jadarnel27 wrong @ ;-)

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@Sam why is a suspension such a big deal to you? All it means is that you get a 'time out' to think about what why you did was not perceived as acceptable by the community moderators. It's not like someone cut your arm or took away your freedom. Arguing about it is likely wasting your time even if you do get un-banned.

Sam

I got only I message from Undo: "30 day ban"

@BenjaminGruenbaum because of the reason why I was suspended

jadarnel27

Haha, @BenC. Sorry about that. I pinged you both!

Shog9

10:01 PM

@Sam meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/users/103/sam?tab=responses

I know you can see that.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@jadarnel27 I know I'm playing the easy part here, it's a lot easier to tell others to do stuff :P At the end of the day the programming language is a very small part of the problem programmers solve.

Sam

I will tell what happened

I wrote an Answer

Izzy told me: "make it better or we will delete it"

Shog9

@Sam and did you make it better?

Sam

The answer wasn't so bad.. so I answered him: "GRRR Izzy you are boring but ok I will do it better"

Laszlo Papp

-1

Q: Edit cpp files before compiling (Qt / MinGW)

I had a question about that and i would be very cool if i can make that. It is possible to edit c++ files before to built the project, but not change the original cpp? I think it's possible but i ask anyway. Very useful to hide some stuff directly via some commands without change the original s...

Sam

10:02 PM

I was a bit rude..

Gilles came there

didn't realized I edited my answer

and deleted it

saying that I should avoid to be rude against Izzy..

Shog9

@Sam there's your problem.

Don't be rude.

Don't argue.

Sam

some other guys on meta said that probably Gilles was wrong

Shog9

Let your work speak for itself.

If it can't, nothing you say will mean anything.

Sam

yes, for sure I was wrong in that sentence

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp such confusion.

Shog9

10:04 PM

If a moderator comes in and sees a flag and there's you being all attentive and churning out good quality answers, he's gonna laugh and decline the flag and move on.

But if he sees you raising a stink and frustrating the folks trying to help you...

...well, I guess you see how that ends already.

So don't do it. Nothing good comes of it. Lesson learned?

Sam

yes..

Shog9

Cool

Sam

I've learned the lesson..

but it was enough to say.. to warn me.. to speak with me

Laszlo Papp

"@Sam why is a suspension such a big deal to you? All it means is that you get a 'time out' to think about what why you did was not perceived as acceptable by the community moderators. It's not like someone cut your arm or took away your freedom. Arguing about it is likely wasting your time even if you do get un-banned."

@BenjaminGruenbaum: please be more respectful. It is OK to ask questions about bans, and give feedback.

Sam

@LaszloPapp imagine your country would tell you:

you are banned from this country for one month: " All it means is that you get a 'time out' to think about what why you did was not perceived as acceptable by the community moderators."

Shog9

10:07 PM

@Sam I recommend using the next 30 days to demonstrate what you've learned on Stack Overflow. If you can hack it there, you'll do fine on SR once you're allowed back there.

jadarnel27

@Benjamin I still appreciate the feedback - whether you're "playing the easy part" or not =)

Sam

Shog9: it's very unfair if this community is never putting in discussion the moderators work

Can I have some other moderator to check the situation?

Doorknob

@Sam I believe at least four already have.

jadarnel27

is disappointed in @animuson's choose of shippers

Sam

Can I speak with just one of them?

Hiroto

10:09 PM

@Sam moderators are held to legal agreements and standards. If you want to complain about a mod, do it on meta. Expect to be downvoted into oblivion unless they really screwed up, however.

Shog9

@Sam I checked it before talking to you, at least a couple other folks on the team have been actively involved, and of course there are three site moderators intimately familiar with it. Lemme be clear:

Everyone understands what happened.

Doorknob

@Shog Needs more bold.

Sam

I've tried a lot of times to speak on meta.. downvotes happen really in a fast way

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp I never implied otherwise, I think you're just picking on me now because of I invalidated some of your incorrect flags and while I appreciate constructive criticism I appreciate not making things up.

Shog9

@Sam You're suspended because you were persistently rude and argumentative, not because you were wrong or someone disagreed with you.

Hiroto

10:10 PM

Needs font-weight: 9001

Shog9

So, don't be rude and argumentative anymore.

Sam

argumentative for sure

Shog9

Problem solved.

Sam

rude no

if you solve problems like this you are not better than any extremist guy

Doorknob

your last two messages contradict each other

Sam

10:12 PM

rude means offensive

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: it has nothing to do with "invalid" flags (which btw the meta community decided to be valid). I am merely referring to your post as aforementioned. It is true that I saw a few offending posts from you in the past in the review queue to several people, but I am not referring to them now, really.

Shog9

@Sam no

Sam

if someone go straightly to a conclusion without listening people, without allowing them to defence..

it's like to be jury, judge and law maker

Shog9

@Sam no, not really.

Doorknob

@Sam rude adj. 1. discourteous or impolite, especially in a deliberate way: a rude reply.

Sam

10:13 PM

it's like I had a trial

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp I'm not talking about that specific flag (which the meta community did not decide was valid, by a 1/2 ratio). I was talking about other flags. Moreover, my post was about arguing about it, not asking about it which is perfectly fine. Asking about why a user was question banned is perfectly fine but arguing about it once it has been explained over and over is not productive. Shog is really just very polite here.

Sam

found guilty

Shog9

@Sam If you invite someone into your house and they bother your other guests, you ask them to leave - you don't convene a tribunal and ask them to defend their actions. This is like that.

6

Sam

without any notice

and had my punishment

30 days

hichris123

@Sam Uh... did you even look at the responses page Shog linked?

Laszlo Papp

10:14 PM

@BenjaminGruenbaum: and I am asking you to be respectful and polite, too, please.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp I don't think there was anything impolite about what I said - but noted. Thanks.

Joe

*trying really hard to keep a straight face now

Sam

@Shog9 even if you invite someone into your house (I was one of the committer of SR) and he doesn't agree with your ideas, you can ask him to leave. But you shouldn't kick him away.. unless he did something of really bad

@hichris123 I'm answering many people at the same time.. I saw a link by him but it was to my profile..

Shog9

@Sam I'm not sure what kind of parties you throw, but... Yes, you ask someone to leave when they start shouting - you don't wait for them to start stabbing. That is, if there's a chance you ever want guests again.

Sam

@LaszloPapp I will be. But be patient.. also you all can be polite..

try to listen me for a second

Benjamin Gruenbaum

10:18 PM

Also, it's a million user party :)

Shog9

(had folks at my house once, and the evening ended with some of them cooking and eating part of another guest's ear - not making that mistake again)

8

hichris123

@Shog9 Wait... how did that happen?

Sam

@Shog9 (is it a citation from Silence of lambs?)

can we have a fast look to the discussion for which I had been banned?

Shog9

@hichris123 long story. tl;dr: small apartment, playful fighting, things just kinda got out of hand.

...which is my point: you don't wait until something "really bad" happens to tell someone to cool down.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@Shog9 so, no good tips about human ear at "Seasoned Advice". Uncyclopedia seems to have some relevant information though.

Sam

10:21 PM

@Shog9 yes, it's what I'm saying

Laszlo Papp

Shog9: do not invite people for pankration. :-)

michaelb958

...how does that even happen.

hichris123

@Shog9 You invite very strange people over to where you live. :P

Sam

Undo could tell me: "Sam stop."

hichris123

@BenjaminGruenbaum My first thought was Seasoned Advice. :P

Sam

10:21 PM

giving 30 days of suspension is like a really really strong punishment

Laszlo Papp

@Sam, yes, but it is usual.

Seth

@Sam Many many many many people asked you to stop. You didn't. They gave you a 7 day suspension. You still didn't stop. So now you have a 30 day one.

Shog9

@Sam not really. You can still chat here, you can still use Stack Overflow... I mean, this could still get a lot worse if you don't wake up a bit and change how you interact.

Laszlo Papp

@LaszloPapp: what you mean by inlining content? Is it some special feature? — yshurik 29 secs ago

LOL

Seth

Almost every single question you've asked on meta is rehashing the same thing over and over and over.

Sam

10:22 PM

@Seth wait.. wait...

just face one topic at a time

let's read together one of the discussione for which I have been suspended

Hiroto

@Sam something tells me you should really be dropping this and cooling down. but I think you already know that...

Laszlo Papp

"Is it some special feature?"

Sam

I will do immediately and for sure

but please

Laszlo Papp

Yes, it allows you to write inline content. :-)

Sam

behave in the right fair way

please

Hiroto

10:23 PM

That isn't immediately

Anna Lear

This conversation is going great. "They should just tell me to stop." "Okay, stop." "Yes, but... keeps repeating the same arguments". It's time to drop this, @Sam.

3

Doorknob

^

Hiroto

"Ima let y'all finish, but"

Seth

@Sam I don't have time to tell you what the comments already say.

Sam

show me that you are not "cocky" guys who things: "I can do it, he can't do anything.. so everything is ok"

Seth wait

Seth

10:25 PM

facepalm.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

When did this site start owing you that?

Sam

1 second

Laszlo Papp

@Sam: do you like tea? I like drinking that when I get into troubles myself regardless the reasons.

Seth

If this is what psychology is like I want nothing to do with it.

Shog9

In other news, it's times like this that I wish @TheWobbuffet hadn't uninstalled that script.

Sam

10:25 PM

just let me find the conversation

Shog9

stop

HAMMERTIME!

Sam

no, no psychology

Seth

@Shog9 ahahahaa

Benjamin Gruenbaum

Seriously, you seem to think you're entitled. I don't get that.

Hiroto

@AnnaLear I need a unicorn, pronto! (also hi, and congrats)

Benjamin Gruenbaum

10:26 PM

@Shog9 our bot does that automatically :) ( github.com/Zirak/SO-ChatBot/blob/master/source/plugins/STOP.js )

hichris123

@Shog9 Not that again... :D

Anna Lear

@Hiroto hi, and thanks :)

Sam

Have a look to this question

-2

Q: How do you interpret this blog article about guidelines on SE?

I would like to draw your attention on the following topic. I will cite some part of the guidelines. "We prefer questions that can be answered, not just discussed." "We never claimed that subjective questions were horrible abominations that should never be asked." "Because we believe so deeply ...

discussion question-quality answer-quality

Seth

Congrats? What did I miss? :)

hichris123

@BenjaminGruenbaum You wonder why we're laughing about it.. :P

HAMMERTIME err.. something like that.

Feb 18 at 2:29, 25 minutes total – 198 messages, 10 users, 8 stars

Bookmarked Feb 18 at 2:54 by Seth

^^ @BenjaminGruenbaum

Seth

10:26 PM

oh

cool :D

yeah that.

that was fun :D

Everyone's posting that bookmark. You should all stop

Benjamin Gruenbaum

lol.

michaelb958

10:27 PM

...nobody?

Hiroto

Brb making a script to do that

Seth

@Sam This is what it boils down to:

@Sam: Almost all your meta posts are downvoted. Maybe you should adapt to the community and not the other way around. — juergen d Feb 14 at 11:46

Hiroto

except instead of hammertime i'll say a random monty python quote

Seth

You didn't listen.

and people got tired of listening to you.

hichris123

goes to make bot work on computer

Anna Lear

10:28 PM

@Seth I moved over to the dev team from community.

4

Hiroto

Stop!

Sam

Seth.. I thouth meta was a place where to discuss the guidelines.

Shog9

@Hiroto help, help

I'M BEING OPPRESSED!

Sam

if it's not..

ok

but it's really said to ban me for 30 days

Hiroto

@Shog9 It can't be done!

Seth

10:29 PM

@AnnaLear Oh fun! Now you get to break things like Oded :D

Congratulations :)

Joe

Congrats, Anna.

animuson

@Seth And Tim Stone. Don't forget Tim Stone. He breaks all the things.

Anna Lear

@Seth Not just like Oded. I can break things better! (Oh, wait...)

Hiroto

@AnnaLear I will mail you a gold star if you manage to hit 180k exceptions in 5 minutes

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@Hiroto go to JS room, type !!tobacconist :D

Joe

10:29 PM

Not sure what it says that I already thought you were on that team...

apparently means I'm not paying enough attention, or else that you were an obviously good hire ;)

[or, both?]

Anna Lear

haha thanks :)

Seth

@AnnaLear lol

Sam

@AnnaLear Can I ask for your help?

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@AnnaLear you were doing a good job as CM. Good luck on your dev part :)

Seth

@animuson Speaking of that.. I found a bug in data.se earlier...

Anna Lear

10:31 PM

@Sam With what?

@BenjaminGruenbaum thanks :)

Sam

I've been banned from one section

Anna Lear

I've been following the situation. I'm in complete agreement with Shog9 and others.

Sam

I've been opening some discussion on the meta session of that section

Can I speak?

Anna Lear

You need to listen to the advice given to you and actually follow it.

Seth

^

Anna Lear

10:32 PM

You're doing plenty of speaking and, to be honest, it's not getting you anywhere.

That's sort of the problem.

Sam

yes, I know..

but this doesn't mean the way I was punished was fair

I'm just asking

to put in my clothes

I've tried to discuss the guidelines of one community

Shog9

@Sam ...wait... You've been in here nekked?!!

3

Sam

nekked ?

what does it mean?

Laszlo Papp

stackoverflow.com/questions/22000112/…

Joe

Moderation on SO must be ... interesting.

I am on staff for a forum that is made up of a mixture of young kids and older adults, but it's a gaming forum

Laszlo Papp

10:35 PM

@Shog9: while you are at punishments, you may want to warn this guy, too, stackoverflow.com/questions/22000112/…

Joe

SO has a mixture of very young (13-15 yo) hobbyists/learners with mature professionals using SO meaningfully for their career

Laszlo Papp

I sell SO information for money daily.

Joe

Who you want to treat the same, but also have to, sort of, treat differently

Laszlo Papp

I do it for living.

:-)

Sam

it's possible to use SR also if banned from meta.SR?

Joe

10:37 PM

(Just making the observation, not implying anything about the current situation, which i'm not really paying attention to anymore)

Anna Lear

@Sam no, suspensions are shared between the main site and its meta

Laszlo Papp

@Sam, sure.

@AnnaLear: really?

Anna Lear

@LaszloPapp yep.

hichris123

@LaszloPapp You must have a fun life. :P

Sam

@AnnaLear I understand my effort are not appreciated from the community

Laszlo Papp

10:38 PM

@AnnaLear: interesting, I was suspended on SR, but not on meta.

Sam

And for sure I will stop to open Q on meta.SR like this meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/642/…

but I don't believe it was so abominable

Anna Lear

@LaszloPapp Eh? You don't have a profile on SR.

Shog9

@LaszloPapp what? You too? Is this the SR suspendees support forum now?

Sam

I was just saying my ideas..

Benjamin Gruenbaum

Hi, my name is Benjamin Gruenbaum and I was suspe...

Shog9

10:39 PM

(I think you meant SO, @Laszlo - and SO/MSO are different)

Laszlo Papp

@AnnaLear: hmm, right, I read SR as stack overflow; not sure why. ;-)

Perhaps too much food for dinner, and I cannot understand things. :D

Shog9

Stack Roverflow: pets.stackexchange.com

2

Hiroto

I wonder when that meta.se split is happening... cough cough @AnnaLear

hichris123

@LaszloPapp What did you eat that had an R in the name of the food?

Laszlo Papp

@Shog9: actually, I have no clue what SR is...

Hiroto

10:40 PM

@Shog9 YES

Sam

So Anna you think I have no chance to speak with the moderator which suspended me?

Laszlo Papp

@hichris123: pizza, errr.... no, wait. :)

Anna Lear

1 hour ago, by Anna Lear

@Joe Soon(TM). We're working on it now, but it's still gonna take some time to get everything lined up.

2

Hiroto

@AnnaLear Whoop whoop

Anna Lear

@Sam Uh, if he drops by here, maybe? So far you've spoken with three SE employees. If the moderator was in the wrong, the decision would've been reversed by now.

Doorknob

10:42 PM

@AnnaLear d-d-d-double star :P

Anna Lear

You've received a lot of feedback from moderators, SR users, etc. If you're serious about turning things around, the best thing you can do at this point is wait out your suspension and come back to participate in a better way once it expires.

Sam

I put a really big effort in trying to discuss the guidelines

-2

Q: How do you interpret this blog article about guidelines on SE?

I would like to draw your attention on the following topic. I will cite some part of the guidelines. "We prefer questions that can be answered, not just discussed." "We never claimed that subjective questions were horrible abominations that should never be asked." "Because we believe so deeply ...

discussion question-quality answer-quality

I read the SE blog

Laszlo Papp

@AnnaLear: so do you have any successor for the community role?

Sam

I did some searches, I also tried to express at my best

Hiroto

@LaszloPapp applies

Sam

10:44 PM

However.. I think the only thing I can do is to shut up

2

Hiroto

Though my 日本語 is pretty weak

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@Undo if you're still looking for an Android emulator use genymotion.

Anna Lear

@LaszloPapp I'm irreplaceable! (Not really. The comm team has a great handle on things right now, so no direct successor is needed.)

Laszlo Papp

Right.

Undo

@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm playing with it, yes ;)

Sam

10:46 PM

@undo

Laszlo Papp

@Hiroto: nah, I prefer being on the geeky side, and not the herding.

Undo

@Sam Yes?

Hiroto

Sam

can we speak in a private chat?

Hiroto

I should probably give those out

Benjamin Gruenbaum

10:47 PM

You should change your name to ^z

Undo

@Sam What's wrong with speaking here?

hichris123

@BenjaminGruenbaum lol. I like it!

Sam

I would prefer, if it's possible for you, to speak in private

Laszlo Papp

-1

Q: Edit cpp files before compiling (Qt / MinGW)

I had a question about that and i would be very cool if i can make that. It is possible to edit c++ files before to built the project, but not change the original cpp? I think it's possible but i ask anyway. Very useful to hide some stuff directly via some commands without change the original s...

c++ qt file compilation edit

Undo

@Sam Why? There isn't really anything to share that hasn't already been shared.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

10:48 PM

@LaszloPapp Why are you linking to that?

Sam

because there are others people speaking here

and also because speaking in front of other people is going to change a lot the discussion itself

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: because it is a very poor question, and deserves being closed in my opinion.

Undo

@Sam Yes - and those people can keep both of us in check. I'd really like to keep this public.

Sam

ok..

I've seen your message

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp Ah cool! I already CV'd it last time you linked to it. Have you seen the system the php room use for this?

Sam

10:50 PM

with the 30 days of suspension

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: no

Sam

I also replied

Undo

I saw your reply, yes

Laszlo Papp

I will cast a CV once I have quota again.... I usually run out at 3-4 am already.

:-)

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp github.com/cv-pls/site/blob/cv-pls.com/cv-pls_chat_docs.md

Laszlo Papp

10:51 PM

IMHO, cool people would deserve more close votes, but strictly IMHO

Sam

Can I ask you if you think that I deserve a lesson?

Undo

@Sam Yes, and my answer is yes.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to have you as a positive contributor there.

Sam

I'm listening..

Undo

But calling us Nazis on meta really isn't the way to go about that.

Sam

can you link me the post?

Undo

10:52 PM

sure

Sam

it's really important because I strongly believe there is a huge difference between the reality and how we interpret it

Benjamin Gruenbaum

That's a nice philosophical observation.

Sam

it's psychlogy

I was a patient for some years

I know it very well..

Undo

oh my god... it's like seeing the rise of Nazism.. trying to show the other people their error and hearing as an answer: "We as a community don't care about". Psychology teach that human being have to work hard to put theirself into discussion. As human being we are always trying to see just only the ideas which confirms our belief!!!! Is it possible that it's so clear for me (after 3 years of studying psychology) and so hard to see for you? I'm saying you a valid answer was deleted. You confirm it was a valid answer and you only want to see that Gilles mistake it's not that bad — Sam 9 hours ago

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: can you summarize the gist? I ate too much, I cannot open the link now.

Sam

10:54 PM

I know how human can mistake

because I'm used to

Undo

You were suspended once before (and I know you read that message) for being abrasive on Meta.

Sam

Can I just reply to this?

this last sentence

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp lol, sure. The PHP room uses a schema for close voting in their room. They use [tag:cv-pls] to signal questions they might need closing. That goes into a backlog so if not everyone sees it immediately it gets dealt with anyway, just later. It's specific to topics they understand so they can judge better than the general queue.

Undo

@Sam Sure

Sam

I believe..

animuson

10:55 PM

@hichris123 Did you go through all the KBD posts and fix them? My query is only returning 2 results for the entire site now. :x

Sam

but it's just my opinion

that every sentence can change a lot as you change the point of view

Benjamin Gruenbaum

For once, I'm sure Nazis would see the rise of Nazism as a positive thing.

Sam

if someone try to criticize a dictator or his boss probably he will experience problems

Benjamin Gruenbaum

(Sorry, couldn't resist :X)

Undo

@Sam True, but from the POV of the overwhelming majority, your comments were rude and abrasive.

Sam

10:57 PM

you wrote: "You were suspended once before (and I know you read that message) for being abrasive on Meta."

Undo

Yes I did. And it's true.

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: so how exactly is that different to the moderation queue?

Sam

yes.. but also many other people was lacking of respect to me..

2 people said Gilles made a mistake

Undo

@Sam That's because you were lacking respect to them

Sam

and no one cared

Undo

10:58 PM

You can't beat your cat and expect it to be nice to you.

Sam

but I am one against 100

Laszlo Papp

/me dislikes cats

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@LaszloPapp it's a lot more targeted for one. You have 10 10K+ people in the room at once so things happen instantly. You just dump 10 closeworthy or deleteworthy links in the correct format there and they all get closed in under 2 minutes usually.

Undo

@Sam ... And does that mean anything? I'd very strongly suggest you bring an open mind to Meta and read everything in sight.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@Undo totally works with dogs.

Sam

10:59 PM

For sure that post on Nazi was really stupid and bad

but as you see I immediately admit my error

Laszlo Papp

@BenjaminGruenbaum: I do not see what value it adds to the moderation queue and instant links.

HAMMERTIME err.. something like that.

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