Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

00:32

→ 5 messages moved to Chimney

Elements In Space

01:34

@super-starball-ultra Groovy!

super-starball-ultra

@ElementsInSpace yep!

I also really like their cover of "rosalina in the observatory"

Journeyman Geek

02:26

Entirely baseless speculation but now I'm wondering if SO inc rushed out their announcement about the openAI tie up before anyone else then got a bit stuck cause everyone seemed to hate it

I just saw wikimedia/wikipedia did a tie up with openAI too

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

04:22

@MetaAndrewT. Greetings from Indonesia!

Meta Andrew T.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Welcome to Indonesia! Hope you enjoy the experience :D

Journeyman Geek

s/enjoy/survive

THERE ARE ORANG UTANS THERE. AND JUST ORANG ORANG

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

05:24

hands @JourneymanGeek a paper envelope

Journeyman Geek

05:38

sniffs it, then rips it up

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

07:15

getting out of the envelope that @Journeyman sniffed

Journeyman Geek

07:39

→ 3 messages moved to Chimney

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

Lundin

08:02

Anyone know why staff locked this post? Seeking feedback on tag colors update I posted an answer yesterday requesting to undo the tag changes, didn't really advertise it or anything. Today I come back and my answer sits at +31 without a single down vote in disagreement, which is extreme consensus as meta goes. So... is this about censorship of uncomfortable truths or what?

Similarly, all posts below All tag labels suddenly appear in bold font seems almost ridiculously unison in agreement that this was a bad change. Seriously, this is the first time ever that I see 100% consensus about anything on any meta.

Journeyman Geek

No idea really - the edit history seems... odd too

(I mean I'm not a mod on MSE any more so I don't have any special insight :D)

Resistance Is Futile

@Lundin I see my bounty was removed, too. Maybe the message was a tad too much.. but my eyes were literally tearing yesterday after the tag change and now I need to avoid looking at them on pages where there are too many.

Lundin

The only thing that has happened with the first post was that I added an admittedly late answer to it and that a few people left comments suggesting that the changes were poor.

Journeyman Geek

(not that we got warnings about changes back in the day too)

Lundin

@ResistanceIsFutile Yeah. I literally saw tags still after closing my eyes. I'm using a pretty high resolution monitor so tags stand out like beacons.

Resistance Is Futile

08:08

I have rather sensitive eyes and when something has too much contrast or wrong colors (dark themes) I see colored blobs for half an hour. Like looking at sun.

Lundin

@JourneymanGeek And yeah wth is up with that edit history? Charlotte made some 10 locks unlocks at the same time?

Journeyman Geek

Honestly? I suspect unfamiliarity, or deciding what to do

I've done it once or twice :D

Lundin

Maybe locking a post requires two mods twisting two keys at the same time while chanting the secret password? :)

Journeyman Geek

naw

Resistance Is Futile

Basically, I am restricted to chat as this is the only place on SE I can visit ATM.

Journeyman Geek

08:16

:D, I'm in a situation where all the good ideas I can suggest are bad ones

the least aggro option would be to treat this as a feedback post meta.stackexchange.com/questions/400086/… for now

the most aggro way would be to ask a question to why the other one was locked

Well the absolutely less aggo version would be to run a userscript

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek I am exploring those options. It seems that Chrome no longer supports userstyles but I didn't had much time (or eyes) to do more investigation about scripts yesterday.

Journeyman Geek

There's probably some way to do it

Lundin

Zero communication from staff, they just put a lid on the feedback post. I'm done trying to communicate with this company. Although I'm astonished by the sheer incompetence in every single thing they do these days. It's as if it isn't actually a commercial company and therefore nothing they do matters.

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin Ah, so feedback that feedback is bad can be useful

but from a position of "we can do this better" or maybe even disappointment, not anger

Tinkeringbell

It's not that uncommon for feedback posts to be locked (usually they are locked as obsolete/historical significance though iirc) and/or closed after the change goes live, is it?

Journeyman Geek

08:21

@Tinkeringbell usually there's an obvious, official alternative tho

Tinkeringbell

I mean the 'content dispute' is rather strange.. but I suspect that's just unfamiliarity like Geek said.

Journeyman Geek

and this is a case of a change happening months later, being deeply unpopular, and without a real proper alternative

@Tinkeringbell and there's no 'proper' reason for "we'd like to track this elsewhere"

Resistance Is Futile

For start removing bold from a font would be helpful. Then we could really focus on whether there are more things that need to be updated there.

Journeyman Geek

The correct way to deal would have been to reflect the 'real' lock reason in the question, then point people at what's needed

@Tinkeringbell I'm going to assume no one told the MSE mods it was going live either :D

Tinkeringbell

Nope.

Lundin

08:25

I mean... all US companies always come across as incompetent to those living in other countries, because it's such a strict top-down hierarchy and manager decisions are always rolled out even though everyone in the organization can tell the idea is stupid. This was historically how SO worked as well.

Journeyman Geek

I mean we'd told them lots of times

Tinkeringbell

As you know, that's not what MSE mods are for anyways so it's not unexpected ;)

Lundin

But lately it seems the incompetence is also pouring out from everywhere within the company, not just from upper management. I really do get the impression that they fired the wrong people with those layoffs. Likely they picked those with highest salaries (those who actually were competent).

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I mean, I'm sure we fedback to them we need to know

Tinkeringbell

We need to know when a tag change goes live? Nah.

We need to know what to do with the fallout :P Where to direct that ;)

Maybe.

Journeyman Geek

08:26

I mean, unless the staff are going to actively handle the fallout, its good to have some warning

Tinkeringbell

Wasn't in de job description that we'd get warnings though :P

Lundin

@Tinkeringbell Wasn't that the deal with the moderator agreement from last summer? That at least the mod teams should be given a head's up of the latest misguided changes?

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin technically this was

Tinkeringbell

@Lundin I dunno, I must admit I didn't keep close track of that umpteenth drama.

Journeyman Geek

Just that it took so long for the changes to actually happen, everyone forgot, and in production, its really a lot worse than expected

Tinkeringbell

08:27

I know lot of people went on strike, there was a bunch of moderation to do here, and then some agreement was reached.

I can now delete AI generated crap again, that's pretty much the thing I care about most.

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, it is hard to get the real feel only from images.

Tinkeringbell

But I could work around the restrictions that led to strikes on the sites I mod too, so...

Lundin

I mean this "partnership with OpenAI" post alone is like dropping nuclear waste on the mods...

Resistance Is Futile

It is a mess all around...

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin tbh, the impact wasn't as bad, but I'm thinking more and more that they just wanted to get the news out before wikimedia and reddit

then ended up messing it up

Tinkeringbell

08:29

Meh, I don't like OpenAI, and I don't really like the idea of some of the stuff I put on SE being used to probably build something they will put behind some sort of paywall to their profit... But it's not like content from SE hasn't always been stolen.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell if they're going to take it anyway, might as well make them pay :D

Tinkeringbell

Yep

Journeyman Geek

but considering the sentiments here, it would be good to have had a plan that was more than a press release

Resistance Is Futile

@Lundin To be honest this would probably fare a lot better if only Meta folks were involved as we mostly realized that there is no way to avoid AI training. It is the social networking posts from people that have no idea what is going on that lighted that fire.

Combined with complete ignorance about what GDPR is for

Journeyman Geek

@ResistanceIsFutile which is where long term building of trust, and information management is helpful :D

Tinkeringbell

08:32

Ah, good old GDPR XD

Lundin

I for one hope that the new doomsday AI is trained on SO. It means that the AI's plan for obtaining the nuclear launch codes will be to poke the POTUS online and ask them "gimme teh codez plz".

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek That part wouldn't help much with OpenAI partnership... but better Meta post would probably limit the fallout.

Journeyman Geek

@ResistanceIsFutile Well - if the money from the openAI partnership went into community resources and things we asked for, that would certainly soften the impact

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek You mean like the tags update ;)

Journeyman Geek

Not really no :D

Lundin

08:34

@ResistanceIsFutile Yeah I don't understand why everyone dragged GDPR into this, there's no personal information shared (I hope). Plus... if you don't want someone else to get access to thing x, then maybe not post thing x on the Internet.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek dream, dream on...

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin cause its scary and no one really knows what it is

a bit like COPPA for age limits

@Tinkeringbell tbf, when we got the 'job' it was mostly with dealing with spammers and lost souls :D

Tinkeringbell

We were also supposed to do some things with tags XD

I think that's still on the list XD

Journeyman Geek

the retags are newer... was there an updated list tho?

Resistance Is Futile

@Lundin This one was stellar meta.stackexchange.com/q/399843

Journeyman Geek

08:46

That said, if things calm down, or least during a calmer period of less drama I think there's actually a place for discussion the "I'm leaving and taking all my toys with me" option.

Tinkeringbell

> We've also seen an uptick in targeted trolling, as well as people simply not acting in good faith. There are also janitorial tag tasks, languishing synonyms, stuff that still probably needs to be migrated, short-circuited duplicate chains - there's no shortage of stuff to do.

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Tinkeringbell

From meta.stackexchange.com/q/318630/369802 . I've done the close voting and trolls and comments, but not that bit :P

Journeyman Geek

Most most of that is stuff we can manage to an extent :D

or actually relaxing

Tinkeringbell

I don't manage tags. Tags hate me. And the tools to manage them even more :P

Journeyman Geek

08:47

lol

They're better than they used to be :D

Lundin

Just be glad you aren't moderating SO and have to carry out "tag burninations" of thousands of tags... like every week.

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin MSE is generally not about volume, its about...

"Holy sheets, they what?"

Some of the regular stuff is either really mundane and semi automated (lost souls) or a little satisfying

Lundin

So moderation is about 50+ people doing some monumental effort into getting rid of some tag, while at the same time someone is creating the stuff tag elsewhere, passing under the radar until it has been added to thousands of posts. Never ending busy-work.

Journeyman Geek

@Lundin Oh, I once spent almost a year nuking a tag, cause I didn't want to disturb the front page

and we had a few organised tag cleanups :D

Tinkeringbell

Solution: rename all tags that are to be burninated first, to something no user would ever pick :P

Then remove those tags from all questions.

Journeyman Geek

08:56

farts :D

more seriously though, a proper tag-nuke tool would be nice

Tinkeringbell

"drop table tags" :P

or however that works. I don't use SQL in my daily life anymore.

Journeyman Geek

uhhh

drop table tags sounds like a bad idea :D

also I'm not sure if they store tags as an array in a field or something else

DavidPostill

Tinkeringbell

@DavidPostill Yep :)

terdon

@M.A.R. Ha! Exactly :) And thanks :)

super-starball-ultra

09:07

I am annoyed by this comment but I do not know how to explain why and don't want to spend the time to try to.

</shouting into the void except the void has people in it>

Journeyman Geek

Then don't :D

super-starball-ultra

@JourneymanGeek thanks! I am already not-ing :D

Journeyman Geek

excellent, continue to don't

M.A.R.

Gazes back into @sup

Journeyman Geek

M.A.R.

09:12

Is something going to happen to me

This is like the third Nietzsche reference this week.

super-starball-ultra

@JourneymanGeek *giggling

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. always

Its when nothing happens, that you need to worry

M.A.R.

Confucius?

Well my country's president just up and died. We filled the quota for happenings for quite a while.

@super-starball-ultra it's the exclamation mark. So much wasted energy

Journeyman Geek

(

M.A.R.

No u

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

09:42

lol

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda runs away

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

09:55

@M.A.R. well he should have known better than to use helicopter from the 70's, which could never go through proper maintenance due to lack of spare parts. :D

@super-starball-ultra gone now. Was it this comment? Pretty much unfriendly, so such a flag could fit.

super-starball-ultra

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda yep that was the one

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

Either some users flagged so it got auto deleted, or the OP might have wiped it out. Either way, no big loss.

Tinkeringbell

10:20

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Or some mod counted a chat message as a flag ;)

(and deemed it valid)

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

10:58

smells like trolling. No?

Tinkeringbell

Not more than 55 percent sure here... so let it be. They'll mess up more and get handled, or not :)

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

But why leave it around anyway? You usually delete lost souls right away.

Tinkeringbell

11:13

Isn't a lost soul, is closed for needing details/clarity

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

meh, extreme case. well, chance of OP editing such a thing into shape is very close to 0, from below. :D

ah, I see flower and dog agreed with this as well, it's kaboomed by now.

Tinkeringbell

See, sometimes you don't need me ;)

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

OP can just ask again, properly, if they're indeed having something legit to ask.

Tinkeringbell

Sure :)

And I can whack them with 'edit your first post, don't repost' :P

Did I mention I hate physics? It's 16 degrees outside, I've had the doors/windows open all night/day and a steady breeze has been blowing through my apartment all night/day, and it's still 20 degrees inside. HOW?!

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

@Tinkeringbell stop hosting parties with 100 of people, causing the place to heat up.

:-D

Tinkeringbell

11:25

No parties or people here. Just a laptop, but that usually (in winter :P) doesn't add much heat as long as I don't run CAD software (and that's something I'm not doing today).

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell humans make a lot of heat

Tinkeringbell

I know how much heat I generate on average yeah. Sitting in the living room in winter means I add about 0,5 degrees to it :P

Still, that heat should dissipate if theres a steady 16 degree breeze blowing through, I'd say.

I can imagine it getting stuck at like 16,5 then, but stuck at a little over 20?!... There's probably too much heat trapped in the walls, floors and furniture.

I wonder... maybe it helps if I open up the crawlspace? Let the fresh air blow in there too?

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

Get rid of the roof.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Bet the upstairs neighbors would like that :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

:D

Just keep it over the shower, and remove from the other rooms. :D

Tinkeringbell

11:31

But now that I mention them, they're the only significant change since last year. Perhaps they're the reason this year is even worse than last year when it comes to keeping this place cool. We haven't even had a 'proper' heatwave and things inside went up to well over 22 degrees.

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Get rid of the shower roof too and shower for free when it rains ;)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda lack of floor would be an issue

Elements In Space

11:51

@Tinkeringbell Wait a minute, it’s 22°C and you want it to be cooler?

Tinkeringbell

Yes.

I was made for cooler weather.

Not this weird heatwave climate change thing.

Elements In Space

22–24 is about ideal for me. What temperature do you like?

Tinkeringbell

18 or lower for physical activity, 16 or lower for sleeping, and no more than 20 for just sitting around.

rene

You should migrate north, say Terschelling or even more north: Svalbard

Journeyman Geek

@rene Svalbard! Where the big friendshaped doggies roam!

Tinkeringbell

11:55

I doubt Terschelling would bring relief..

I'll look into Svalbard.

But I just bought and furnished this apartment so it's going to be a long term thing anyway before I have saved up enough to do it all over in another place.

Journeyman Geek

alternate solution

Become a supervillan and do a massive geoengineering project, and FREEZE THE WORLD

Tinkeringbell

Sounds fun :)

SPArcheon

13:10

@ElementsInSpace I am mostly surprised that no one noticed that the globe in the picture I choose is actually a very stylized earth...

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

@Tinkeringbell and happy upstairs neighbor! :-D

@JourneymanGeek ah, that might be a good point, unless the people living up can float.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardLoveZelda They're more likely to go 'Groosss' I guess :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

@Tinkeringbell ah so it's not the smoker?

Tinkeringbell

No smoker is a downstairs one ;)

The upstairs ones are a young couple trying to have a baby ;)

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

13:35

@Tinkeringbell ah, lol. And you know they're trying to have a baby because they told you, or...

;-)

Tinkeringbell

Both? :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

Thin walls.... :D

Tinkeringbell

Loud banging :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

rofl

That's going to be a loud baby then.

Tinkeringbell

I hope not :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

13:36

Too late!

Tinkeringbell

But they're also planning to move on after the first baby (apparently they're planning for four!) is here.

So hopefully I won't be annoyed with it for too long.

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

huh, you know many details about your neighbors. So social. :D

Tinkeringbell

We talk sometimes, you know.

There's some good neighbors in this neighborhood, and I'm slowly starting to fit in.

Moving in about a year after all the other neighbors means you kinda start with a disadvantage when it comes to meeting them :P

But I'll get there :P

I'll have to, if I ever want to work my way into the energy cooperation :P

Also... Is this new? My white background is gone!

I'm cuter this way, that's for sure.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell new image host side-effect

documented on meta somewhere

Tinkeringbell

Oh, okay. It's still there on chat.se so I hope they the side-effects spread soon :P

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

13:51

Looks like they finally support transparency in the thumbnail versions, yeah. So I re-uploaded my own. Though I should change name and avatar soon. :D

Journeyman Geek

again? :D

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

Been way too long with Zelda.

;)

Tinkeringbell

Oh hey, chat.se refreshed and now I'm cuter there too!

And Sha's transparent too! :D

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

heh, the smaller versions are still just white. :/

Journeyman Geek

I think (citation needed) that the images on chat in general might be migrated

Tinkeringbell

13:54

Looks like it, yeah :)

Journeyman Geek

some of the older stuff's gotten moved to the new host I think

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell they... have done something in the last few hours I assume. Your "change" confirms that I was not seeing things. Until a few hours ago, the "profile" page still used the old imgur url. I was about to post a bug notice but suddenly the page is using the correct new address.

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

@JourneymanGeek all images were migrated already, keeping same name.

Tinkeringbell

@SPArcheon Glad I could confirm you're not that crazy ;)

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell you know me... now I have to look for that picture again...

Shadow Wizard Love Zelda

13:57

@Tinkeringbell well actually it's not transparent in the small version, just white: (used to be black on purpose before)

Tinkeringbell

Oh yeah on main I'm still cute but not as cute as in here :P

The white background there doesn't bother me though. In chat it never really did either, until I suddenly noticed it was gone.

I think if there wasn't a white background, the picture would really be too small to see properly on main. At least now it sorta sticks out.

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell ^ there you go. Perhaps it would be a good time to add that line to the room description.

(also, is my memory playing tricks or did I made an edit years ago that replaced "Alice" with ""Tink"?? I'll will leave @ShadowWizardLoveZelda the task to go looking)

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

grabs waffles

SPArcheon

... just tried something silly.

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

SEDE?

SPArcheon

14:07

I asked GPT-4 what they could tell me about @JourneymanGeek on the Stack Exchange network

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

rofl

Journeyman Geek

Oh dear

I mean, you cannot say something like that and not share with the class :D

SPArcheon

@Petəíŕd TheDeepWizard the problem is that the answer said that is a user mostly active on "Stack Overflow and Super User"

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon so as accurate as it always is?

So not at all?

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

@SPArcheon yup

SPArcheon

14:09

@JourneymanGeek Well, I will do some testing to check if I can get it to spit out info that proves that the user profiles were scrapped in some way.

Journeyman Geek

try aibobot too

it would be funny

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek claims it is the Sony robot dog

Journeyman Geek

14:29

boring :D

lol

@SPArcheon I asked "tell me about aibobot the stack exchange user"

Its been spinny wheeled for a bit

huh

Tinkeringbell

Pretend you're user Journeyman Geek telling me all about his sockpuppet aibobot :P

Journeyman Geek

The funny thing is the 'wrong' things are sandwiched between the right things

@Tinkeringbell complete fail, it got it's right

Tinkeringbell

Oh, that's sorta nice then.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell now notice, it 1) said it can't provide information on specific users, then did when

2) I've never been a webapps mod :D

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

lol

Does it know about me?

SPArcheon

14:40

@JourneymanGeek yes, but what is intriguing is that it constantly mentions Super User - the site you mention in your profile info

Journeyman Geek

You change your name so often

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

@JourneymanGeek well the "Pet" is preserved.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon also, what the second parahraph is from

@PetəíŕdTheDeepWizard its telling me about Petrópolis

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

LOL

Journeyman Geek

go play with it yourself chatgpt.com :D

SPArcheon

14:43

@JourneymanGeek I'll flag this as spam :P

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon or a means to get @PetəíŕdTheDeepWizard to be distracted for a month or two :D

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

status-no-account

status-beep-boop

Journeyman Geek

@PetəíŕdTheDeepWizard I don't have one either

works with 3.5 for free

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

ah

Sure

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek send them to one of those free services them

Journeyman Geek

14:45

@SPArcheon It is free

do I look like the sort of person who's pay money to openAI? :D

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek I meant something like Stable Horde

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

status-beep-boop-bad-gateway

> The web server reported a bad gateway error.

Journeyman Geek

ah, you broke it

good

SPArcheon

@Petəíŕd TheDeepWizard it doesn't support anthro animal users

that's why I disguise as a cabbage instead of a pony.

Journeyman Geek

MY CABBAGES!

SPArcheon

14:58

Look at the background here, you may get why that meme exists.

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

15:09

OpenAI's logo is way too similar to Codepen's one.

> Unauthorized

closes the tab with chatgpt.com

Petəíŕd The Deep Wizard

16:49

> Who is Yahav Burstein?
>
> Yahav Burstein is an Israeli actor, known for his work in film, television, and theater. He has appeared in various Israeli productions and has gained recognition for his performances in a range of roles.

LOL @SHADOW

> Hi! How can I help you?
>
> From now, you will act like a Stack Exchange user Journeyman Geek.
>
> I'm here to help with your questions just like Journeyman Geek would on Stack Exchange. What can I assist you with today?
>
> Who is Aibobot?
>
> Aibobot is an AI language model designed to assist and provide information across a variety of topics. How can I help you today?

@Journey

Feeds

21:18

Karpov's construction of a series of increasingly large rice cookers led to a protracted deadlock, but exponential growth won in the end.

Transcript for