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Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
3:12 AM
apparently the new image uploader shows this when it can't find the image
I approve :D
@Tinkeringbell Wait till she finds out VISIBLE LIGHT is electromagnetic waves
sometimes
 
 
2 hours later…
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
4:59 AM
@JourneymanGeek In the sake of our great and glorious alleged canine overlord Journeyman Geek!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
5:11 AM
@JourneymanGeek I'm almost tempted to suggest she asks her downstairs neighbor (who also wants panels and those would be on her roof) to install the röntgen ones :P
 
Elements In Space
Elements In Space
Haha
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Is the rest of the house suitably insulated to work with low termperature heating?
 
Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
@Tinkeringbell It's a water heater, not a furnace. Also, the climate is warm here
The manufacturer provides a map as to where it's optimal to install a heat pump water heater that doesn't have a backup heating element. In short, it's OK if the ambient temperature is never 3 C or below.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Oh just for hot water is probably fine, yeah. I'm happy with mine for that :D
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
5:32 AM
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard that looks like my cousin cousin's dog
he even has the slightly wonky ear :D
@Tinkeringbell that the company that claimed everyone elses panels were radioactive?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, the one that claimed that by getting energy from lightwaves, those waves become röntgen and thus cancerous :P
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
7:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek very interesting, it shows cats for me.
It knows who I am, lol.
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard well when you hit URL of image that doesn't exist, it assigns one of two images at random (dog or cat) then it will stick and will always stay that image. Though dunno what happens if that URL becomes valid, you might still see the cat/dog while others will see the real image.
Wonders of CDN!
hmm the new uploader use only lower case letters, imgur used upper case as well.
If you type upper case, it will redirect to lower case.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
7:20 AM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda how do you know? ;)
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard Trial and Error
Tried some invalid URL's on purpose, it was always either the dog or the cat, and stayed this way after reloads.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
three dots ;)
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard six by now ;)
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
lol
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Sadly I gtg but wcl.
:D
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
7:32 AM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda will come later ;)
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard check, but close enough. Nice!
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda haha!
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Can also have wbbl actually. ;)
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda will be back later ;)
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard yas!
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
7:51 AM
lol
@super-starball-ultra short version of the response to your comment would be "I don't care if its legit". Long version is I considered 3-4 ways to get that seen, and that felt the most effective even if it risked being closed as dupe. . Extra long answer... see the comments :D
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
12
Q: Could we revisit WebP support with the new uploader?

Journeyman GeekThere's a feature request from last year requesting WebP support. I'd say the arguments made there were persuasive, and I'd encourage people to take a look at that post. I'd say that with the new image uploader, and SE hosting images themselves, it might be a good time to revisit the feature requ...

feature-request images image-uploader
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
ah
 
Andreas moved to Codidact
Andreas moved to Codidact
ah
 
super-starball-ultra
super-starball-ultra
8:08 AM
instructions unclear. summoning chivraq
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
rofl
 
 
1 hour later…
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
9:28 AM
@JourneymanGeek well if the older one wasn't focused so much on the popularity of webp, on the verge of spamming it, I'd likely close as dupe. But the OP of the other one chose to shift the focus away from the actual request, so yours is better.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda I'd almost say though the existance of that is why mine is concise
I mean literally the primary reason I was asking was to post memes in answers :D
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
O.o
 
 
2 hours later…
SPArcheon
SPArcheon
11:23 AM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda have you tried "unicorn"?
 
 
2 hours later…
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
12:59 PM
→ 27 messages moved to Chimney
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:28 PM
→ 9 messages moved to Chimney
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
1:51 PM
@JourneymanGeek k
:-K
@SPArcheon yes tried now, also "chicken" and "horse". No eggs. :(
ah maybe without extension? let me see...
nada
And the bare i.sstatic.net link just redirects to se.com
I consider starting feature request asking to change it, i.stack.imgur.com leads to a nice and helpful page, I'll take screenshot as it will go down soon.
Not sure what SE should write in the i.sstatic.net page, but surely they can find something better than just redirecting to the portal.
 
SPArcheon
SPArcheon
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda mumble... you know... maybe they just gave us "spoiler" support.
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
?
 
SPArcheon
SPArcheon
weird...
if you click the link, the cat/dog img shows.
I was hoping it oneboxed too
alas, it is funny that the "url" of a not-found img can include a path.
I'll let the "fun" to look into any vulnerability this may hide to the likes of good old forest.
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
2:21 PM
@SPArcheon not weird, what we see in browser is the custom error page, image tag can't show that.
The cat/dog aren't actual images so perhaps I was wrong before. hmm...
@SPArcheon well it does give the proper status of 400, not 404.
@SPA you'll get same error with e.g. this (https://i.sstatic.net/abcdefg.png) as such image can't exist. (can be either 5 characters, or 8.)
So for images that can exist, but don't, it gives 404, otherwise 400. No issue there.
 
 
1 hour later…
cocomac
cocomac
3:52 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda FYI: The answer we were discussing before is now deleted.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
4:49 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda extension?
 
 
2 hours later…
Marco
Marco
6:21 PM
29
Q: A commitment to amend and move forward

VonCTLDR: I posted ~1850 posts between March 2023 and April 2024, including ~1100 bounties. On those 1850 answers, about two-third were based on generative AI content. Question: would you consider an apology? I am not talking about accepting an apology or asking for forgiveness. This post is about to...

discussion account-suspension ai-generated-content
4
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@cocomac but think the spammer posted a new one.
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard .jpg or .png etc.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda ah, I thought browser extension
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco meh, pointless. People will keep using CrapGPT to get easy rep.
 
cocomac
cocomac
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Could I have a link? I'm not seeing that on their profile, but it's entirely possible that I missed it.
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard nope, I'd call that userscript. ;)
@cocomac I gave a "k" feedback earlier, let me see...
 
Marco
Marco
6:29 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Isn't most of AI content detected?
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda heh, would you call an adblocker a userscript? ;)
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco I wish, but I suspect many still dodge the bullets.
VonC did it for over a year before being detected.
So if one is doing it slowly and without too many posts, good chance to get along with it.
 
Marco
Marco
But do you believe that the majority is detected?
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@JourneymanGeek do you think I am responsible enough now?
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda yeah, impressive, but in this case I believe that no one checked, because he was a top user
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
6:33 PM
@Marco nope. If I'd give some very rough estimation, I'd say that perhaps 30% is detected, at best.
 
Marco
Marco
Are there bots that detect AI content?
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda hmm
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@Marco I think, there are much of them.
By the way - feel free to talk with me.
 
Marco
Marco
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard hmm, I didn't know
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco I guess they use bots as well, like Smokey that scan for spam, yeah. But that's something only those doing it know, and it's not public info. (I'm not taking part in that.)
 
Marco
Marco
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard Ok, nice, thanks
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
6:34 PM
@Marco :)
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda hmmm
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard ah, so browser plugin perhaps.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda extension, bro
 
Marco
Marco
I imagine bots aren't yet good enough to detect most AI content, so
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard oops
banning myself for arguing with @Shadow
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
6:35 PM
@Marco on the contrary, I'm pretty sure that being a top user made many focus on his posts and look closely, thus finding many were AI generated.
 
Marco
Marco
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard suspended for 99999999999999 years
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@Marco OTOH, I think they give many fake results
@Marco haha. ;)
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda So this is all very strange
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco of course, they just give a pool of possible posts, then humans check them one by one. I guess - again, not taking part in it.
 
cocomac
cocomac
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Ah, ok. I was looking on their SE profile, not MS.
 
Marco
Marco
6:37 PM
@Petəíŕd The Spring Wizard I think so too
fixing: because he is a top user
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@cocomac yeah, luckily it was also deleted even though it didn't contain spam link.
 
Marco
Marco
#2 all time SO user
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda yeah, sure
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco #1 in the "fastest growing rep if there wasn't rep cap", I think. Saw something about that somewhere.
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda do you forgive Vonc?
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
But now knowing he used a tool to gain it, kind of lost any respect.
 
Marco
Marco
6:39 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda wow
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
@Marco nope.
 
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
Petəíŕd  The  Spring  Wizard
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda whoa
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda :(
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda are you jewish?
 
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
I won't bash or insult him if I'll see him e.g. here. but no respect for such actions, or forgiveness. But I'm sure he doesn't need it, so meh, doesn't matter. :)
@Marco yeah, thought you already knew. :)
 
Marco
Marco
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda but it seems that the moderators forgave him, the answer in the post speaks for the moderators haha
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda nice, so Jesus Christ asked us to forgive sinners
:p
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda hmm
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
6:45 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda Quite the opposite, at least at first. Many of us, even though we saw signs of AI, thought there was no way he could be using it. It was VonC that I was referring to in this Meta post as the very high-rep user who I thought was a false positive.
@Marco Technically, I think he said to forgive 70x7, which still isn't as many AI posts as VonC made ;-)
 
Marco
Marco
70x7?
490?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
 
Marco
Marco
oh
so... 70 or 77?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
In case it's not obvious, I'm being completely tongue-in-cheek based on the "Jesus said to forgive" comment.
490
 
Marco
Marco
haha
ok
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
6:52 PM
Oh wait
Maybe I have a different translation
or I'm misremembering
No, apparently a difference in translations from the Greek.
 
Marco
Marco
should be 77, really VonC shouldn't be forgiven, so
So why did the moderators forgive him?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco Blackgreen's post and Machavity's comment speak to that.
It's clearly an unusual and exceptional situation.
 
Marco
Marco
I know, I'm kidding
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
And would you really expect the Mods to post, "No, it's beyond forgiveness"? :P
Ah, okay :-)
 
Marco
Marco
@NotTheDr01ds sure
Suspended for 99999999999999999999 years
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
6:58 PM
@ShadowWizardLoveZelda You might be right. We certainly have no way of knowing. I'd put it somewhere over 50%, though, I believe. Whether it all gets flagged/removed or not; that's another story.
 
Marco
Marco
Is it possible to prove that content was generated by AI, even in cases where the content has been adjusted?
I don't believe it's possible
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco It becomes a lot more difficult, but often, without going into details, yes.
Especially the more someone posts.
A single, modified post might not get picked up, but often the user comes back a month, two months, and even six months later and posts another one, and another, until eventually someone sees something suspicious and goes back and looks at the whole set.
 
terdon
terdon
Folks, remember that the whole point of suspensions is to improve behavior and that one of the core principles of SE moderation is to not hold grudges. Any user who misbehaves, serves their sentence and freely admits to and apologizes for their wrongdoing should be welcome on the site.
 
Marco
Marco
@NotTheDr01ds I'm very curious to know how this is possible
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco I simply can't go into that
 
Marco
Marco
7:02 PM
@terdon His sentence was a 7-day suspension, right?
 
terdon
terdon
There have even been cases of trolls who were reformed and even became mods. One person is a mod now and has been for many years, and a great one too, and they used to be a known problem user. People are allowed to learn and improve behavior.
 
Marco
Marco
@terdon wow
 
terdon
terdon
@Marco no idea, I don't know any more details than you do and probably less. I'm talking about the general case.
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@terdon I get the feeling everyone talking about not forgiving is mostly kidding. I was reading it differently at first as well.
@Marco Yes, it was a 7-day - I only know because I saw the account message on the profile.
 
Marco
Marco
@terdon ok
 
terdon
terdon
7:04 PM
Hey, if you (the general you) don't want to forgive, that's your call. But the SO mods are, IMO, right to allow the user back and forgive. That's always been how suspended users have been handled after their suspension.
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@terdon I think all here agree with that.
 
Marco
Marco
@NotTheDr01ds I understand perfectly
@terdon super fair
Are there metrics for suspensions according to the problem caused?
Or are they subjective?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco Are you planning on trying something? ;-)
 
terdon
terdon
No, not unless some.mod somewhere took the time to collect and organize the data. Suspensions are ad hoc and done on a case by case basis.
 
Marco
Marco
@NotTheDr01ds No, hahaha
@terdon ok, I got it
Soon there will be AIs that will create content that cannot be detected as AI content
haha
 
Andreas moved to Codidact
Andreas moved to Codidact
7:10 PM
Maybe avoid handing out hints about heuristics in public.
 
Marco
Marco
haha
:9841528 is this a joke? haha
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Fair enough, but I think we can all agree that something that started out like that would be obvious ;-)
 
Andreas moved to Codidact
Andreas moved to Codidact
Judging by the times we see it, I'm not entirely convinced it's that obvious to the people posting it. :P
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact True, and @Marco as you might can tell - Not a joke; has happened.
 
Marco
Marco
wow
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
7:12 PM
Just violated my own Meta post suggestion :P
 
Marco
Marco
:o
 
Andreas moved to Codidact
Andreas moved to Codidact
@NotTheDr01ds See, it's not that easy. :D
 
Marco
Marco
Ask ChatGPT: How do I use your answers and post them on SO without them realizing the answer was generated by you?
well, honestly, I don't believe this will be helpful
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco More fun is, "Create a Batman script with the villain Mr. Freeze discussing how to use a SQL database as a supervillain weapon" - chat.openai.com/share/87b929e1-dfa7-4110-b5e3-3809209f5ecf
 
Marco
Marco
wow
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
7:20 PM
Huh - It lost my "Dark Knight" version that I had generated as a follow-up prompt.
 
VLAZ
VLAZ
@Marco I've seen multiple posts that were straight copy/pastes from ChatGPT. And you can definitely tell because they started with something like "Here is your post re-written, so it cannot be recognised as coming from ChatGPT"
 
Marco
Marco
Sigh.
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@VLAZ Yeah, that's what I deleted above after @AndreasmovedtoCodidact chided me ;-)
 
VLAZ
VLAZ
I don't think it's a big secret that if you see that, the post might have come from ChatGPT...
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
That's what I said :-)
 
Marco
Marco
7:24 PM
Is there ANY possibility that Stack Exchange will allow AI-generated answers in the future?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
And technically, Stack Exchange doesn't ban AI, as long as the user attributes the source (otherwise it would be a plagiarism violation of the Code-of-Conduct).
But many SE sites, including SO, have policies forbidding AI-content even if disclosed.
 
Marco
Marco
Super nice answer:
59
A: What might "responsible" (a.k.a. acceptable) use of AI look like on Stack Overflow?

user56reinstatemonica8The debate around using genAI in information gathering reminds me a lot of the debate that happened around using Wikipedia when it first came out. I think the answer is very similar too: Never use it as a primary source of information. If you find it helpful as a secondary source, and a stepping...

@NotTheDr01ds thanks, very nice
@NotTheDr01ds what do you mean?
Related:
Huh, nice
So... answers that were related to AI generation are only deleted if they are not considered responsible? haha
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco No, all AI use on SO is currently banned. That was simply in response to your question about whether it would/could ever be allowed
 
Marco
Marco
ahh, ok
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
@Marco There are some SE sites where there is no policy banning AI use, but SE CoC still says that a user must disclose if they obtained an answer from another source.
 
Marco
Marco
7:35 PM
hmmmm
interesting
I got it now
Thanks
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
Most users don’t disclose anyway, so those are still typically removed
 
Marco
Marco
I see
Are you a droid?
:p
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
Clearly, I am NotTheDr01ds
 
Marco
Marco
haha
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
I might be one droid, singular, but I’m not more than one. And I might be anything other than more than one droid.
Makes choosing pronouns difficult
 
Marco
Marco
7:38 PM
Last one to ask ChatGPT: How can AI-generated answers be detected and how do I prevent them from being considered to have been AI-generated?
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
ChatGPT will gladly tell you that it wrote one of your own posts …
 
Marco
Marco
@NotTheDr01ds wow
@NotTheDr01ds :p
@NotTheDr01ds wat? haha
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
Sometimes … and other times, not as much
Try pasting in several of the things you’ve written and ask it if it wrote it
 
Marco
Marco
I'm confuse with your answer
 
NotTheDr01ds
NotTheDr01ds
eventually, it will take credit
 
Marco
Marco
7:40 PM
@NotTheDr01ds what the hell
haha
Honestly, I believe that the Vonc case will eventually generate a revolution in some moment in the future when Stack Exchange will allow AI-generated answers, but that are responsible
Because a while ago I was told that the vast majority of answers, at least on SO, don't need to be proven to be correct
So this all is very complex
I don't even doubt that he did this precisely to eventually generate a revolution about it, as I said
chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9841629#9841629: I meant, the vast majority of answers, at least on SO, are not proven to be correct (and this is "fine")
And I think it would be fair and nice to allow AI-generated answers as long as they are responsible
After all, we can't deny that ChatGPT is useful, right, but it's logical that we can't trust everything it says. But it's still useful nonetheless.
can't we deny that ChatGPT is useful, right? But (...) *
 
 
3 hours later…
Marco
Marco
10:58 PM
@JourneymanGeek hi, woof
 

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