Tavern on the Meta - 2023-06-29

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Journeyman Geek On Strike

12:43 AM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack needs more screaming

@AlexisKing Very much another day ending with Y

@AlexisKing Unless you signed the open letter, you've not crossed the picket line. besides PLDI's very much a community mooted site, and people are excited about it, so its success would be a positive thing

1:11 AM

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike disappointing but hardly surprising. I respect you for holding out this long!

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@AlexisKing I enjoy aspects of these spaces, and think some of it is worth preserving :D

And I often don't trust corporate aims to be in line with those, so someone has to do it

I am very glad that you do!

3 hours later…

4:29 AM

@Journeyman purr You have to earn 100K more rep to achieve round number 256!

BTW,
When I trying to login to Writing.Meta.SE to upvote this (see bottom) question and answers on Meta.Writing.SE I get the following error *meow*:

user image

Here is the post:

yesterday, by Laurel

Writing Meta: June 2023 Writing Challenge: Voices of Protest

Journeyman Geek On Strike

5:09 AM

@PetLinux I stopped caring about reputation a very long time ago :D

5:54 AM

Is it normal here to create bot accounts with 10-minute-mail?

I have a bot, that is almost ready to deploy.

Is it normal to report localization issues on MSE?

Anyone please

oh? How? How signup for bot?

I do not have another email address to register with it.

But it denies signing up with temporary email address.

@Journeyman

Ps. Please ping me while answering.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

6:12 AM

... I did

@PetLinux Replies ping you and tell you which message I replied to

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike What did you did?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux a lot of disposable email servers are used for abuse. Don't

@PetLinux Yes

@PetLinux except SE's own Community bot, there's no "bot account". It's just a normal account owned by someone.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux No

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike What "no"?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike But how?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

6:14 AM

@PetLinux Most chatbots are normal accounts. People answer questions properly to get 20 rep, then throw some hacked together tool since SE in their infinite wisdom never did a proper APO

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I understand. Problem is to signup.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux My spare account uses a username+thing@gmail.com email

which works

or its fairly trivial to get a 'real' email account

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike what? How? I cannot use just jhjdhjskzdh@gmail.com because it asks to verify.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

you get a real gmail account

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike how?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

6:19 AM

Sign up for gmail?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Cannot use phone.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

or use your real gmail account with a +

I don't think I did

so I can (its not my real gmail) use journeymangeek@gmail.com as my main account and journeymangeek+sockpuppet@gmail.com for my alternate

My dad's TV and car have their own accounts and I don't remember needing to use my phone for either

Oh, that's a idea

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I tried that and it happened! Thank you.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike registering Google accounts now need a phone number for SMS confirmation though :)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

hm

I don't remembner this, and I probably have like 3 usable sim cards anyway

6:26 AM

The only thing I need now is earn reputation.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, using the same phone number for multiple accounts is also possible

@JourneymanGeek Is it normal to post a question on MSE about specific site? Or I'm not in right place?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux See the help center

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux normal, yes. On topic, no. It would (well, should) be closed, there's specific close reason for that.

hmm...

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

6:41 AM

@SPArcheon well, as long as something isn't directly against CoC/ToS there is a margin for the moderator/staff member to use their own judgement. So the outcome can't be predicted, they might agree with you, and they might disagree.

:9560230 please don't start with nonsense here. Unless you have waffles.

@BigJoe exactly! :D

You can use the sandbox room to test your bot

@mousetail yes. But I have to earn reputation. This is a problem.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@EvanCarroll because you're special.

Answering on code golf is a good way to get some free reputation

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I'm sure he scream a lot when awake. :D

@mousetail but need 200 to have it affect MSE as well.

IMO posting decent answer in one of the zillion strike discussions is the best bet. ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

6:46 AM

More or less

True, those get 1000 votes even though the same thing has been posted 20 times already

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Rep fests, but I'm not against it. :D

Don't understand what you are trying to say.

Unfortunately I'm not angry enough to really benefit

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux I said lots of things, which of them?

6:48 AM

All my rep on meta is from "show off your hats" during the winter bash

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@mousetail maaaan

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack .

Journeyman Geek On Strike

user image

While it does not much good for my mood, dramatic times result in a lot of reputation

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@mousetail nope, you have around 80 from questions you asked. ;)

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike food is good for mood!

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I'd get fat :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

6:51 AM

@PetLinux rep festival, place to get rep for free.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike yes... But my English is not very good to answer questions on MSE. And my research skills are not good to ask questions. Pity... :\

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux I keep telling new users...

its not a sprint, its a marathon

there's no rush

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike and? ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Die

I'm also not really food motivated

A happy death

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

6:54 AM

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike pity!

My idea for bot fells to the trash can.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

digging in trash to take @Pet's bot

finding @Tim's keys instead

a mice in trash can: squeak, squeak! me wants cheese

Fan of mice

Is this normal to create an answer in Sandbox question and give a reputation for my bot?

7:01 AM

I think sandbox is community wiki right?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux nope. That would lead to suspension.

@mousetail not relevant, he means upvoting his own answers.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack ah, not upvoting, bounty.

forgot to add it.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

If you really too lazy to earn rep in the legit way, then better indeed ditch the idea, all good.

@PetLinux same thing and even worse.

Never have any interaction that involve reputation with several accounts that you created.

Ok... so just let's purge this in all brains, include my.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack @PetLinux meta.stackoverflow.com/q/388984/11107541

7:08 AM

I already purged this idea. What are you talking about?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@starball yeah, also related: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/57682/… (some similar info in the answer)

@PetLinux weather. 25 degrees now, will reach 28. Regular summer day. :D

!!/coffee

:(

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack too classic.

Almost all bots are dead now.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux which bots?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Kenny, Smokey, my two un-released bots.

You probably don't want to name your bot smokey, as that is already another bot

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

7:16 AM

huh! Turns out staff without diamond and less than 20 rep isn't immune to profile masking in chat. @user1264612 you can probably ask for explicit write access here to bypass this, if you want to chat. :)

@mousetail I didn't even think about.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux Kenny is not dead, you silenced him. Smokey is not dead, he's on a strike.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I am under little anger now, so

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

And you can still make Kenny-like bots, earning 20 rep here is possible. Don't let that block the ideas, like I said, finding something to answer is easy.

e.g. if you see anything you want to change in the colors update, post answer about it, and good chance you'll get some upvotes.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I already said my english is bad and I'm very not creative.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

7:22 AM

@PetLinux your English is just fine and to share what you think about something and how to improve it no need for creativity. :)

OK, since Smokey on a strike, going to make myself some actual coffee. With milk. :D

@Alexis want some too?

Elements in Space

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I'll have one, thank you.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@ElementsinSpace one coffee, on its way!

user image

Elements in Space

Oh, wow that looks like a cappuccino.
I once had a cat called cappuccino.

Dear me, the chocolate powder always makes me sneeze.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

7:41 AM

@ElementsinSpace lol! But good name. ;)

Well, I follow Smokey tradition:

Dec 28, 2022 at 17:46, by SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardChasingStars brews a cup of cappuccino for @Spe

@ElementsinSpace sadly here in Israel cappuccino isn't usually served this way. :(

Maybe only in the fancy restaurants.

user image

Why has worldbuilding suddendly changed it's favicon to workplace?

Elements in Space

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack How is it served? on a plate?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@mousetail cache, happens when site is launched.

Reported on MSO, MSE

16

Q: Sites' icons appear shifted / wrong sites' icons are appearing

Just noticed that some sites' icons, both on home page and in "Hot Network Questions" sidebar are shifted and mixed with icons of different sites. For example, here, the Server Fault icon has a bit of the Information Security site's shield icon showing up. The Home Improvement site's icon has als...

bug status-review design logo icons

Also location based, for me and probably for @Mithical as well it appears fine.

@ElementsinSpace in restaurants, yes, but without powder on top. :/

That's weird, since they do have a ?v=xxx cache busting system

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@mousetail nah, in some lower level.

The server itself serves the old version.

7:46 AM

Wouldn't a CDN or reverse proxy also be effected by the cache busting?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Found it!

9

A: Incorrect icons on hot network questions

Apparently we've been looking into this for a while now. :) But, the core problem remains the same - sometimes some CDN nodes end up caching an old image with the new cachebreaker and everything goes out of whack. I'll see if we can dig more into it soonTM, but in the meantime, please feel free ...

> sometimes some CDN nodes end up caching an old image with the new cachebreaker and everything goes out of whack

That must be it

Interesting that the icons seem to be shifted in the opposite direction that time, was a site deleted in 2018?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@mousetail yeah there was one site shutting down. Forgot which.

Found it!

119

Q: The Windows Phone SE site has been archived

TL;DR We are announcing that as of November 17, Windows Phone SE has been archived. Why now? The Stack Exchange network is a lot like a neighborhood. Each individual site makes up a house in that neighborhood. Some houses are quite large, and others are a bit smaller. Each house has different kin...

discussion announcements closed-sites archive

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I have HNQ disabled

Why? HNQ is my favorite part of the site

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

7:55 AM

@Mithical oh. Good for you! ;)

user image

It looks fine now, they probably flushed the cache

@mousetail I didn't like being involved in the voting skew that it causes

Fair enough

8:13 AM

It's nice to get a bunch of HNQ votes, but it can also be annoying. You end up with some of your highest scoring answers being rather trivial, while your answers that took a lot more time & effort have much lower scores.

Of course, it's possible for an HNQ answer to also be a good answer that you're quite proud of, but that tends to be the exception, not the rule.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux what about it?

FGTIW seems to get me more undeserved votes than HNQs

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@Mithical so don't vote? ;)

@Mithical that's so purist. It's just a post on a Q/A site dude.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@mousetail one server at a time, so might still be off for others.

@PM2Ring for me those are SO one-liners, not HNQ.

8:18 AM

Besides, a site that can't handle an overblown overpopular mediocre post isn't usually generating too much quality content anyway.

Also, especially on the more scientific sites, the questions that end up on the HNQ are often not representative of the kind of question that the site wants to encourage. That's especially a problem on Math.SE because many good Math.SE questions contain MathJax in the title, but such questions are automatically excluded from the HNQ.

Not being dismissive of the core users of smaller sites of course; I have always been one of them whenever I've been active, but a bunch of, I dunno, chemists sitting around the equivalent of a coffee table answering homework isn't really a non-renewable resource

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Bit of a unique case of an entire platform dying

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PM2Ring so they can ask to be excluded from HNQ, which is fair.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well yes, other sites these days are way more dead, and still up.

(e.g. one question per week on some.)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack can't be as dead as no questions left to ask

quiet is survivabile

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

8:24 AM

yeah, lol

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack But the majority of the community doesn't want to be excluded from the HNQ. This can create tension when one or more of the mods are obviously anti-HNQ (eg, on Physics.SE).

Journeyman Geek On Strike

rebuilding is obviously something I'd like to see the company do

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PM2Ring well that's something that should be discussed openly, of course.

The HNQ situation is kinda ok on Astronomy.SE. It's not a busy site, but if a question is at least halfway decent there's a good chance that it'll go on the HNQ. I have a fair few HNQ answers there, most of which I'm reasonably proud of, although some of them aren't much more than quotes from Wikipedia with a bit of padding. ;)

Cody Gray - on strike

9:23 AM

@SPArcheon If you ask me, the network consisting of people with strong opinions is a feature, not a bug. There are often middle grounds, just as often as there are people militant on both sides.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack That's weird. What was that baby doing in your coffee machine? I think you may be doing something wrong.

@EvanCarroll Well, the difference is obvious, isn't it? The questions you linked to are all about people who are leaving/have left SO, Inc. The subject of your question hasn't left.

Cody Gray - on strike

9:40 AM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Yeah, I did that for years. I'm glad I'm not doing that anymore.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

9:53 AM

@CodyGray-onstrike my coffee machine would have also sprinkled chocolate powder. Or maybe it's broken? ;)

@CodyGray-onstrike yet

But to be honest there are also welcome messages which are left open.

I wonder if my own "goodbye" will be closed. Pity I won't be around to see. ;)

@CodyGray-onstrike but why?

Cody Gray - on strike

10:09 AM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Because I get 50-100 messages in the inbox every day. That's too many tabs to add to my already massive collection of open tabs.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@CodyGray-onstrike when you're active mod, but now... you're less active as a mod, no? ;)

2 hours later…

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

11:53 AM

The last message was posted -1 hours ago.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

12:42 PM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack bloody time travellers

ON THIS NETWORK, WE OBEY THE LAWS OF CAUSALITY

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

status-not-in-CoC

waits when we will suspended

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike That 'I' in CAUSAILITY doesn't though :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux you already were . Or maybe will be. Its timey wimey

@Tinkeringbell apparently I butchered that so badly spellcheck's confused

Hahaha

1 hour later…

1:57 PM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack yes, please

Journeyman Geek On Strike

/me hands @AlexisKing a coffee, and @ShadowWizardStrikesBack checks mud from a superfund site, and slightly oddly glowing water, topped with hallucinogenic mushrooms

How Bloomberg’s engineers built a culture of knowledge sharing

Ben Popper on June 29, 2023

Thousands of the company’s engineers, data scientists, designers, and developers have asked and answered questions about how things work inside their organization.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@AlexisKing well, looks like you got some! ;)

2 hours later…

4:21 PM

Believe or not believe - your opinion, but my first laptop hardware was 2 CPU cores and 2 GB of RAM.

my... current work pc is 2 cpu cores

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux why wouldn't we believe it?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack For someone this can sound strange.

user image

@KevinB The base speed is fast. So... this can sound like 4 cores. :)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

4:26 PM

@KevinB awesome specs!

@PetLinux you mean sound old? No, not here. ;)

I think average age here is around 30.

O.o

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Well I don't have laptop, never had, so can't compare. :P

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack KevinB said this is a PC. :D

it is in fact a pc

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Laptop and computer is about the same.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

4:30 PM

@PetLinux oh lol missed that

@KevinB so not so awesome after all! How old is it? ;)

the cpu was released in 2012, this pc is probably... 9 years old? 8? it was refurbished when bought

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux from what I see in other people's laptops, you get much less power for same price.

hoping to get a more current replacement soon

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@KevinB oh wow and still working! That's a good PC.

i mean

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

4:31 PM

My PC's all died one way or another after 3-7 years.

it takes ~30 min to boot

so i don't shut it down

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

o_O

o_O

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

glaring at @Kevin's electricity bills

i mean

i doubt this thing is using much power

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

4:33 PM

reporting to Greenpeace

:D

@KevinB "I" pronoun must be in UPPER CASE.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux nO

that's why i leave it lowercase

;)

I mean my english is not bad, but good.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux sounds like your AI

4:37 PM

Not I teach AI, but AI teach me.

4:47 PM

```
Greetings Philippe,
It has come to my attention that recently you've been in negotiations with people representing the moderator strike. This negotiation then does not represent the full Community of StackExchange. In future negotiations I would like to volunteer myself to represent the Community in opposition to those on strike. The more voices at the table and heard, the better the result will be for everyone.

Together, we will prevail,

Evan Carroll
```

if anyone is interested in joining me or has an opinion they want represented, feel free to comment here or pvmsg me.

@EvanCarroll If you could argue for pineapple on pizza being a good thing, please?

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@EvanCarroll I highly doubt he's here to read it.

@Tinkeringbell yeah, wasted talent.

5:05 PM

ROLTFLMAO @EvanCarroll's post above.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Roll on Laughing Floor? That's new. ;)

Andreas detests AI hype

5:40 PM

@Tinkeringbell Haven't we had enough parody?

@AndreasdetestsAIhype Eh, perhaps. I'll look into that tomorrow, there are indeed a few flags to handle. Until then, pineapple on pizza is good. If anyone has more like that for Evan to represent, feel free to add ;)

curious is on strike

That's a massive betrayal right there... @Tinkering with pizza :P

Andreas detests AI hype

@Tinkeringbell No, we haven't had enough parody. :)

@curiousisonstrike Well Evan can only represent one side at the time and I was there first so I guess you'll have to get the striking mods to represent the other, wrong side of the pizza!

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

The wrong side of a pizza is only my mouth. :D

curious is on strike

5:51 PM

Double-sided pizza? Heresy!

(also...messy)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Pizza <------> Shadow's Mouth

Andreas detests AI hype

6:04 PM

@EvanCarroll I would like you to represent the opinion that Stack Overflow should not have any rules; that people should be allowed to ask anything they want. No bounds. No limits. Stack Overflow should answer everything from programming to gardening to chemistry to prison breaks.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@AndreasdetestsAIhype how to make TNT?

Andreas detests AI hype

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack How to make a bomb vest?

6:29 PM

@CodyGray-onstrike To be fair, I was thinking of more blatant cases that have happened, thing along the line of three moderators evaluating the same flag with different or even opposite results.

user image

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack see above

Andreas detests AI hype

@SPArcheon Use a TNT duplicator.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype Shadow didn't specify any mod pack, so I went Vanilla

Andreas detests AI hype

@SPArcheon Vanilla has a TNT duplicator

Haven't played survival mode in ages.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype that is a glitch

And Shadow said "make", not "dupe"

tnt duping is the lazy solution

7:16 PM

@Tinkeringbell Just wondering, do you mentioned "Pineapple on Pizza" by sheer chance... or did you too see the steam free game with that name?

@SPArcheon Not really chance, not the game either. I had half a pizza with pineapple for dinner

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

7:41 PM

@SPArcheon thanks!

@SPArcheon the best!

@Tinkeringbell half a pizza with half pineapple?

8:14 PM

user image

Andreas detests AI hype

Ew.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

meh

I will just say that the reviews aren't fake

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Maybe they send free pizza to those who review "correctly". ;)

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack no, half of a whole pizza with pineapple. That was enough calories for dinner. The other half is in the freezer now ;)

8:29 PM

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack One review:

> This game wants us to understand how disastrous the consequences are of putting pineapple on pizza. Without pineapple, we are happy; with pineapple, we are sent to Hell. Pineapple on pizza is the work of the devil, and we need to stop it before it is too late.

Obviously, the preferences are individual but it is quite funny seeing how the devs conveyed their hate for the flavor in the game.

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