@KevinB the feedback is essentially the same :D

tomshardware.com/news/…

@cocomac The mod team does that. The other shoe that mods keep alluding to might have been delayed/stopped cause we pointed out how terrible an idea it would be

They might do it anyway though, like the question upvote adjustment

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I can't help it. I always read that as "Tom Shardware"

@Tinkeringbell Just FYI, regarding the user whose question you just answered: they've been trolling since 2009, to the point where Jeff suspended them until they could verify in a phone call that they were a legitimate user, which they did. If you search for "deleted:1 user:1 call on phone" you'll find that post.

I know, hence that last sentence in my answer.

Were you aware of the phone call, though?

Yep, I've heard that story before, it is sorta legendary XD

oh, Evan is back?

@balpha Yes

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog We know :D

well, at least it's something that's like the good ol' days 😬

I mean, I guess some things never change

I even got a compliment :D

@balpha he never left. :/

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike they totally deserve it. ;)

Use that crap, you will get crap.

@KevinB well they're about the same max length. :)

@M.A.R. for me it's "Tom's Hard Ware". :-D

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog most trolls are "legit users", who just choose to troll. Bots can spam, not troll like they do.

MorningZ

Just dropping for a quick question.

Did I dream this up or the company promised to post the mod only version of the policy for comparison? Was that ever made?

@SPArcheon Yes

and not yet I think

@SPArcheon they didn't promise in public, I think it was leaked to Jon.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike maybe in 6-8 years.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack cough cough Jon got something else and lets leave that for another place

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I would really love to be surprised but I am not

Naw, someone leaked the internal response to the Strike to Jon

Coffetime!

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike exactly, and that is something else.

@SPArcheon oh its clear there's going to be people who disagree with the company's direction

On the other hand, if they had the leverage to do something, they would

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike no, I didn't mean it in a figurative way. I just mean that the leaked internal communication is not what I asked about.

mini Dubai spam wave on MSE...

I downvoted Evan's post then undownvoted the post. I'm not giving in to the temptation.

@M.A.R. what you mean? Why not downvote?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack twitch

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Any single downvote is stroking his ego.

Maybe the spammer twigged on to the fact that the mods are away :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike nah

@M.A.R. I don't think so.

@SPArcheon well, I'm sure I saw it being said (that the mod agreement changes will be made public) just not where. So where did you see it?

Too many strike related posts and updates, so search is impossible. :(

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack fite me draws sword

@M.A.R. draws a rabbit out of my sleeve

skewers rabbit

Feel the wrath of Rabbiton!

@Tinkeringbell just wondering... did THAT user just felt bored today (I assume you get who I am thinking about) or did he just come out of a long ban (that should probably be renewed like you do with an expired certificate)?

He wasn't banned.

(well, he was, years ago.)

@Pet help! @M.A.R. tried to attack me!

letting Rabbiton loose

hmm all spam gone. Can't know who cleaned it, probably the parrot? ;)

@SPArcheon Yes

@SPArcheon Yes (additional context on the previous meta post that is not on MSO and MSE :)

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack stay back! I have the holy hand grenade

I shall count to three, two is too soon, four is too late, forget about five

@M.A.R. HAS THAT BEEN SANCTIFIED BY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES?

pulls out a HERETIC HAND GRANADE

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike You can't touch me! You're on strike and everything is on fire

dumps holy water on @M.A.R.

Ew diet soda

is there any other sort any more?

I mean, I went to india, had a coke and whoa... it had actual sugar in it

none of that HFCS garbage or worse

A real man isn't afraid of diabetes

If I must sin, I ought to do it right

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike did it boost your monastic visions

@M.A.R. It was beautiful, like brown sugar water with mysterious flavours .

Yyyeah that doesn't sound like normal soda

Are you sure there wasn't some of the other coke in your coke

> I've taken on the task of making edits to low quality posts as a way to relax

Ahh the wonders of youth

@M.A.R. who Blessed your hand?

@M.A.R. doubt it's really a Kid. ;)

!!/blame M.A.R.

I gotta say, I have found very few posts from SE Inc. insulting, but the Prompt Design post definitely fits the bill

drags @M.A.R. from @Sha while grinning

Like, it's really nothing else. Everyone participating in the thread knows that everything else there is to say is secondary to how insulting the post is.

@M.A.R. why insulting?

@PetLinux Smokey was sleeping but it seems like this is going to be more like hibernation season.

No matter grinning

@PetLinux beware his Hand.

Also, he can throw the extra kidney on us, that's a very big problem.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack pick a reason

concludes @M.A.R. Hands to Handcuffs

@M.A.R. not giving ice cream?

flying with @M.A.R. to sea and enjoying while rofling

That is a minor but important contributor, yes

@PetLinux useless, his Hand is Holy so handcuffs will just vanish.

in the meantime, far above

@PetLinux are we now just doing random stuff, because I'm game but I have to check with my schedule

@M.A.R. Hopefully

@SPArcheon oh hey, that's my place. ;)

concludes @M.A.R. Hand to Holy Handcuffs

@M.A.R. make sure you put your best swimming suit!

There's no such thing as holy handcuffs! You made that up!

grinning and laughing

oh no. @Pet got drunk.

Did you drink from that Holy Milk again?

runs away from @Shadow's eyes

@M.A.R. Well: two things. First, does this mean that they will provide a stable diffusion tool on the site :P ?

forcing @Pet to make a drug test

as an ai language model @M.A.R. i cannot respo

@JNat I once joked that you folks on Anime should replace the old image bots with an anime diffusion bot, maybe this is the right time considering the launch of a prompt-engineering site

@M.A.R. What if you need to arrest the antipope?

@SPArcheon well, I think the site would quickly evolve into IPS for AI. The top voted post would probably be "How do I stop my LLM from making my wife jealous?"

@M.A.R. second: stable diffusion prompts change tremendously based on the specific model.

@M.A.R. hm.

Actually

@M.A.R. remove their [put something here].

Akchuallly

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike you usually need C130s for that

archive.is/dx7Rh

steals Stable Diffusion servers

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/95?m=56971512#56971512 .

hides from PM2 behind M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack At least 53 people agree that it's insulting.

what is the stuff with these ai servers

@PM2Ring "We told you so", cried mods on internal feedback long before...

SE doesn't need to use AI to undermine site quality. Staff who seem to be oblivious to site standards can do that manually (perhaps with ChatGPT assistance): meta.stackoverflow.com/q/425259/4014959

@PM2Ring good point.

@MetaAndrewT. Sure, they would have gotten a lot of negative feedback for Prompt Engineering even if there were no strike, but announcing it now is just rubbing salt into the wounds. And combining it with the bypassing of Area 51 just sends my incredulity meter off the scale.

@PM2Ring to be honest, they said a while ago that new sites will come from the company itself so that's not new.

@PM2Ring Without the strikes and the downsizing, people might have been willing to work with it

I actually agree that something needs to be done regarding Area 51. And I don't mind the company devising a way of proposing & creating new sites. But combining that with a new site that they know is controversial is just asking for trouble.

I don't have strong feelings either way regarding a PromptEngineering.SE. I think it's a bit silly, but I can't blame them for wanting to create such a site.

IMHO, it's silly because it's almost impossible to give solid answers regarding prompt engineering, or to test such answers. And we simply don't know if LLM prompts will still be a thing in a couple of years.

It reminds me of computers in early scifi, like Heinlein's Starman Jones, where computer IO was in binary, and the protagonist had an edge because his eidetic memory allowed him to memorise binary logarithm tables.

@PM2Ring We told them that

they seem quite intent on leadfooting their way through this whole AI obsession

It would be hilarious... except that they're risking the integrity of the network content, and alienating a lot of the remaining subject matter experts.

@PM2Ring yup

But its nothing new

No, it isn't new. I basically stopped contributing to SO several years ago. I was already losing motivation because it seemed like the good content was drowning in a flood of swill. Then the Monica stuff happened. These days, I mostly write answers on Astronomy & Physics, which have lower volume & better quality control.

That might seem contradictory. How can I fret about the integrity of the network content, and also claim that it's drowning in swill? Well, the good content is still there, if you can find it. Adding further rubbish that looks nice because it's been polished by GPT makes it harder to find the genuine good stuff.

SE Inc could work on LLM-based tools that help skilled members to search & clean up the existing content. But instead, they're making stuff aimed at low rep newbies, which may improve the quantity of new posts, but which is unlikely to boost actual quality.

I am really tempted to support this proposal.

I want to see that site.

I want to see how they can hope to make it work.

@SPArcheon TRAITOR... :D

taking the red pill

More seriously, if they hadn't bet the farm on this and alienated lots of mods...

It might potentially have value

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike To be fair, the proposal looks like just a site about prompt engineering. Nothing inherently bad about that. It is just that the topic is so over-complicated by a total lack of standards that you are basically trying to give guidance in a world where every model need different prompts to do the same thing and there are THOUSANDS of models (and don't get me started on LORA...)

@SPArcheon Well and the whole strike thing

On its own, with a good start sure

It might even attract users

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I would have ignored the strike for this purpose if this looked a little more doable. After all, they get more users, you get to have the AI crew on a different site, I get to post pony pictures with the excuse of being actual questions, everyone is happy.

@SPArcheon Actually that's precisely why its a good fit for Q&A

assuming your questions and tagging are precise enough

or you answer based on different model variations on the same platform

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike have you ever visited SharePoint?

Nope!

I've not sinned that much in a past life it seems!

there are version specific tags like sharepoint2010 etc.

just with these alone it is a MESS.

now multiply that for a thousand different models, a thousand different clients etc.

It becomes worse than NPM packet management.

and we aren't tagging every npm package!!

oooh, just read this.

lol

YOU WROTE IT, WHY DID YOU NOT READ IT?

More seriously

that's the sort of stuff someone who knows about a tool would be useful in scoping out

He's the one who died right?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike yeah, lots of arrows took him down, but he saved the hobbits.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike you noticed

So, someone to take all the arrows blame to save someone or something else.

So basically we can offer @SPArcheon as tribute? :D

That's the plan. :D

> Stack Exchange & The Precious AI

New movie title ^

also, to annoy @ShadowWizardStrikesBack

not annoyed

hehe Google identify this as amahara pekozaemon.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack 1girl, elf, pink hair, short hair, sitting, kimono, firework

@SPArcheon well her nose is too small.

watching @SPA getting annoyed

:P

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack ^

Pre-emptive private-beta meta-discussion: is mature-nature prompt allowed?

@MetaAndrewT. you can do worse.

@MetaAndrewT. probably to some limit, e.g. sites like biology can have "adult" content which is legit.

> Should Stack join the Stable Horde?

Though the "worst" (or "best" ;)) I've seen is Islam.SE, on that context. lol

"According to the Islam laws, can I do [adult stuff here] or not?"

Stable Stack, Diffusion Overflow

@SPArcheon not without your "uncouth" reaction image :p

@MetaAndrewT. You know what the Stable Horde is?

Basically, user "lending" computational power to a community effort to provide "free" diffusion.

@SPArcheon and it's used to mine crypto coins?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack the final part of the message should already answer that?

@SPArcheon I know now :)

You basically send a request to the Horde and it will be processed by some member hardware

@SPArcheon nope

@SPArcheon Tom?

like Prime95 and Folding@home I guess

ah, had F@H for years.

so, since today I am felling a little evil, another idea for some horrible integration.

Since they are already planning for sponsorship of stable diffusion generatos on the new site, why not throwing in some swag to?

10K rep points could be converted to 1000credit on Midjourney for example

@SPArcheon they apparently can't afford swag :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike but it would not be SE paying. That would be a prize from Midjourney.

best answers about their services get free credit

If Microsoft can have the MVP going around advertising for them and getting plenty of free stuff in exchange, why shouldn't we do the same.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack start here.

@SPArcheon hmm? Start what?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack reading?

start from that message and see JNat reaction :P

@SPArcheon I started. Where to go next?

@SPArcheon OK, still a dead end for me. ;)

i.e. what point you try to make/show?

maybe this work since they are in AI lame answers mode

Good day/evening/[insert timezone here], Tavern!

How’s it going?

oh another wizard @Eleeza?

:D

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard AfternoonZ. Just use UTC salutations. :P

But I appreciate there is someone else as silly as me ^_^

I can use API but it is all I can! :D

Of course lies. ;D

@PetLinux Colei Lilly?

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard I'm not at all happy with the Prompt Design featured post by staff earlier today.

What is Prompt Design?

@PetLinux AI nonsense something.

AI nonsense design.

@PetLinux That's the one.

@PetLinux How to generate ponies 101.

@SPArcheon Only 100 to go.

Enough that images, rawr! growls

@PetLinux Maybe you prefer a chibi Taiga with plush tiger instead?

(just trying to annoy @ShadowWizardStrikesBack)

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard Have you finished your exams yet?

@ElementsinSpace Yep, I finished yesterday :D

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard Congratulations!

@SPArcheon I've been contemplating making a waffle QR code :P

@curious I'm actually surprised that's not already a thing

That's because I'm too busy trying to follow up with... other things :)

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike THAT IS a thing

@SPArcheon keep trying! :D

source: reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/141hg9x/…

@SPArcheon yea that's what I'm talking about, but a waffle one

That is not a waffle

Disclaimer: I don't know what url they used

I saw that thread, I think they all link to a QR code generator

@curious spam!

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Bon appétit? :)

munch munch

@ElementsinSpace Thanks :D

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard Congratulations!

I only know keyboard waffle maker

@MetaAndrewT. can you play Doom on it?

(in case you forgot. ;))

.....

What does that have to do with... anything?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike it's AI generated. I bet on it.

@Feeds let me add: Google Blog, The Keyword - How AI is improving agriculture sustainability in India

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack dunno, but here's a video as compensation :)

yay!

playing Doom on a toaster

This site hasn't been so welcoming in years.

Definitely a fan of ChatGPT. Talk about an agent for social change -- this is great.

@EvanCarroll welcome to Tavern! How are you feeling today?

@EvanCarroll there is AI chat bot in my Den, you are welcome to use it.

will your AI bot assist others in generating more content. this stuff is like garlic for vampires apparently.

mods be flee'n.

@EvanCarroll no, but it keeps contradicting itself. I'll share the most funny message.

not really funny, did it at least get a moderator to rage quit?

@EvanCarroll not yet, my Den doesn't have mods in it.

oh, there is one, but she's already on a strike.

oh it's baby AI, he has a diaper.

So no point getting there, he can't be of much help.

if baby AI plays a role in prolonging the strike, you should sell t-shirts for it.

actually, StackExchange should sell t-shirts, they're apparently broke and firing people. I would buy one.

@EvanCarroll $200 and it's yours.

"Mods out, AI in -- StackExchange 2023"

I'd vote for AI to run SE instead of current management.

No way AI will let AI in.

haha.

I'm all for that. If AI ran SE the mods would never come back.

@EvanCarroll maybe they will. The major problem is management doing mistakes, and even worse, not listening to feedback. AI will listen better.

If AI listens to feedback, they'll ban the mods. Not rely on them going on strike.

They should let this condition persist for a month, and see whether or not there is any quantifiable difference in the site, and then poll for perceptions of new users.

it's likely going to last for at least a month whether they want it to or not

yup

@EvanCarroll You seem particularly hostile today. Why so angry at the moderators? Why so angry at the community’s most upvoted policy ever, with a 95% agreeance rate? Why so much hate against the strike?

And btw, the Den has a bunch of people that all hate AI generated content on SO. It doesn’t mean we hate all kinds of AI generated content. We’re not unreasonable. ;)

@AndreasdetestsAIhype you didn't see him hostile...

@AndreasdetestsAIhype isn't that just the norm

Because it's comically absurd and insane. StackExchange has a long standing policy of letting moderators do whatever they want, without ever demanding accountability. They'll never ask so much as a single question. Moderators can ban anyone and your only recourse is to send an appeal to [email protected] which goes right to the trash can.

Now StackExchange has one request: don't explicitly state you're banning people for AI-generated content. That's it. This is what the strike is about???

How petty.

This seems detached from the reality.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype this is also normal

@KevinB Fun

Has StackExchange taken action against any mod for banning AI generated content and not saying "I am doing this because I believe this content is AI generated"??

highly doubt it.

no, of course not. Mods have simply been following site policy.

CM's have also deleted AI content since the strike began

Not to mention, moderators don't give people the respect of knowing the reason why their content was removed, or their account banned. why are they so resolute in giving a defense for their action when the content is AI generated or the user is a bot? lol

They do, btw

no, they don't. trust me, i think i am an expert in this.

in many cases users have responded to the suspensions apologizing for using AI

why would i trust someone who is against mods because they're mods, and won't believe anything anyone says that goes against their narrow view of the world?

that's because the mods in just this use case are creating drama and trolling about it. they want to say, "we gotcha you were caught cheating". they should just do what they do with every other content removal and suspension case. just leave the person in the dark, and refuse to justify their actions.

@EvanCarroll I think you’re not.

do you know how many times i've been wrongfully suspended?

0

easy

i bet stackexchange can't even product that number. it would wrap an bigint. SQL Server can't handle it.

@EvanCarroll No, but I’m willing to listen if you can present it and explain it. But it’s gonna have to be more convincing than what I’ve seen from you so far.

@EvanCarroll They just had a server crash because of an overflow.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype yeah, and if i present to you evidence are you actually going to do anything.

prolly not, right?

@EvanCarroll Well... non-moderators generally can't effect suspensions (except for some SE staff, though). But if you have a concern that a moderator is abusing their power, consider reading What recourse do I have if I believe a moderator has abused their privileges?

there likely isn't evidence that you could produce that we can verify is real or presents what you believe it does. but i'd happily look at it and possibly present an opinion.

@EvanCarroll How about saving the assumptions of which actions I will take, until after I’ve seen the evidence, and had a chance to comment on it?

@AndreasdetestsAIhype see, that puts me in a bind because people do this all the time and it's a huge waste of resources. And if I share screenshots they'll just get removed and I'll get banned. So why risk it?

You can't actually call moderators out on fabrications and lies here. It'd be very easy.

@EvanCarroll Then try another room. Or contact me in private. If you’ve read up on what’s happening in terms of the strike, and how it’s organized, you should know where to find me. ;)

You can get banned by a moderator for stuff you say in another channel, even in your own channel.

and again, they don't need to provide a reason.

You could try to explain better, though, and describe what happened, even without the evidence. I just don’t find the idea that they randomly ban people without reason, convincing.

Instead, you just repeat the same accusation over and over again. That’s not going to convince anyone.

it's kinda weird how not suspended one can be after complaining about constantly getting suspended for no reason for 8+ years

🚽

🚅

After a long day of napping and being unproductive, I come here to dispense my wisdom and wit and he's spoiling the mood!

It's totally unfair. Only I am allowed to troll people here! And only mild dilute trolling

@Feeds what the heck did I read

@M.A.R. 🚽

🚽 + 💩 = 😄

@M.A.R. Darth Vader’s spare time hobby.

@M.A.R. I tempt you to either downvote the post, or do nothing.

there is only one way not to give in to my tempts

@EvanCarroll If you have actually been banned for having a username with a political stance on the situation in Israel, I consider that no different than Ciro Santilli’s username, profile picture and profile description about Russia and China. I don’t know the circumstances, but at first glance, banning you over that seems wrong.