Any news from the past week ?

I see this meta.stackexchange.com/q/390106/294691

Nothing new

negotiations are ongoing, and paused cause its a company holiday

@Feeds Stress test your onebox as you publish it

How to get access to stackoverflowteams.com/c/moderators ?

Become a moderator

@Tinkeringbell but Buck is already a mod

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack no dialog option to ask them their age

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission

@M.A.R. Oh, I missed that XD

@BuckThorn You should've gotten an invite when you were elected. Otherwise, ping a CM here or in the TL :-)

@Tinkeringbell admit it, the Dutch snappiness is too tempting

On that note, I too want access

I bet there's all sorts of juicy gossip

@M.A.R. It's much tamer than MSE XD

Haha yeah I totally believe you

Actually it is

Most of the Juicy stuff's on TL

@CodyGray-onstrike Jeremy Banks and Nicolas Chabanovsky, though Jeremy might have not asked to get one on purpose, i.e. stay below the radar. Nicolas signed recently and doesn't mind having the diamond, I asked mousetail but he didn't respond.

@RandomPerson fun times! Surely something to tell your grandchildren. ;-)

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Jeremy is active on the discord, and there wouldn't be much barriers to asking

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike so maybe better ask... my point wasn't to add it, but to make it more clear the numbers are not 100% accurate.

ah

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Orange juice?

lol

Generally Q&A is more... thoughtful and slow moving than chat

especially since the teams are not that obvious to access any more

@M.A.R. no need, there's the HT. Height Test. Below 140cm you can safely assume 10 or younger and launch to space. ;)

@Tinkeringbell CM's appear to be on a long holiday, so won't expect any response.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Long? Why, I know juneteenth was a thing over there, but today they should be back at work, no?

taking into accounts time zones

and its like almost 4 am there :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike You're in the eastern U.S.?

No, I make typos

@Tinkeringbell well here one day holiday turns into three days off school or work, as people have to prepare before the holiday, and rest after the holiday. Sadly, it's actually true. lol

Best is Passover, there's whole week before the holiday even starts where there's no school at all, because "teachers need to clean their houses". So lame.

Passover itself it only one week, but holiday from schools is nearly a month. (think 20 days.)

So just used to "holiday" being always long. :D

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I think that was still present in Oblivion. Basically, craft potion -> drink -> craft stronger potion thanks to the previous potion buff -> drink new potion -> repeat

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Isn't that mostly a religious thing though, that your not allowed to do anything on the holyday itself? ;-)

@SPArcheon oh, never did it. So... maybe! :)

@Tinkeringbell nah, not related. The point is, they take days off way before the holiday, and after the holiday is already over. (Teachers, so parents also have to take days off work.)

Hahaha okay

That would be annoying yes.

It is. ;(

Thankfully I don't have kids so I don't have to worry about teachers either :P

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Not everywhere has massive amounts of off time tho

Out here you're lucky if you get 2 weeks total and can creatively account it

@Tinkeringbell good for you! ;)

I'm having 5 weeks of summer vacation (1 week in July, rest late August/early September) this year. And I had a few days off around Christmas, Easter, Ascension Day and King's Day XD

Luckily, no one with kids will be injured in the process :P

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike same here. People just get less money as result. (except teachers)

More or less

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack looks like someone else already took action

@JNat yeah it escalated fast, and it's a known troll.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack And probably worth not giving them too much attention

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike oh they got enough attention for lifetime. Took long hours in which people thought it's legit user. Sad.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Well for now

@Starship-OnStrike what did you do? This:

No idea how you did it or why, but it's creative way to break a link.

... I've literally done that once or twice

I think its just a copy paste fail?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike from where? How the %20 were added?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack IIRC its a space?

Also, @Journeyman no doubt you're very creative as well. :D

Naw, I just make mistakes and own them :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike sure, URL encoded, but then where's the actual URL?

Its an UNuniform reference location :D

lol

Anyway that was more a rant than actual answer, while I share the same general opinion, comment is enough.

Did you actually do anything when the council was still new, shiny, and active? @Journeyman

uhh a bit

(as a council, not you personally)

Actually not all that different from what I end up doing on meta

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike huh

did preview a few current rules (like the age limit)

there's value in the council just its hard to keep something like that running unless the company/mod relationship is healthy, and moderator motivations are high

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike uh oh don't tell @Mithical I think that's one the rules they very much oppose. ;)

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I own my mistakes :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike and someone in the company management actually cares.

No 'current' mods of the time were affected, and I do agree with the 'legal BS" angle, even if I think age and moderation potential are not linked

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Well yes

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I'm sure "age and moderation potential are not linked" but yeah, law is law.

One of the best mods (elsewhere) I knew was a 16 year old

and one of the worst was a very experienced 30something year old who was a bully :D

If the rule affected any mods retroactively I'd have opposed it

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I was fooled for long enough to believe management cared, but alas, not anymore.

Will a room be frozen if in room is only messages by Feeds and if Feeds post messages, for example, every day?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack It was doing better before sinking into the same destructive habits

@PeterKolosov yes

Feeds is not a real user

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike okeh. I know a escape method for this. ;)

THERE IS NO ESCAPE...

But I can. :D

(some people use bots that ping periodically, or you can ask a mod to unfreeze the room. IF there's work on chat, then we might want/need to ask for a way to keep a room from freezing permanantly for mods)

throwing Gnocchi on @M.A.R

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I'm sure it was all fake.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Eh, There were some positive moves and results

I don't trust words as much as actions

@PeterKolosov bots yeah.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Sunday!

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well there's Sloshi

oh bots is a cool idea I didn't knew about it

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike exactly. But even actions can be made just to calm things down temporarily, without real intention behind them.

e.g. I believe data dump will be disabled again soon after dust settles down.

whaaa how you so fast all whoa

@PeterKolosov who's fast?

Or you mean on a fast?

@PeterKolosov two days ago

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack not only you, for example Geek either. ;)

@PeterKolosov fox is bot, it's SoC

typo ;D

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack *whacks @JourneymanGeekOnStrike with a rolled-up newspaper*

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I mean that rene in some room posting these Sunday! in some room

oh tautology again

I accept that there are good reasons for it, but it's a loss for the community and diversity of the site.

@Mithical :P

@PeterKolosov well, used to. Not anymore.

@Mithical indeed.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I appreciate SE increasing the CM team, that was a positive action. I think they should have made better progress with community hires and going past just 'stratergy' to on the ground community work... I think firing people for short term profitability is a net negative

and those speak more for the company than what the CEO or staff say

People lie, actions don't

hehe true. Still, intention does matter. And whether genuine or not.

e.g. rich people donating to charity while doing not-so-good business elsewhere.

I don't know Prasanth, or even Phillippe to know their intentions.

I can't work with that

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike no need to know them. Recent scandals prove beyond any doubt their actual intentions.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I am on a strike now right?

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, yes.

But I know the what, and maybe the why

They might do good actions again, but the trust is lost forever.

but the question is do we have a realistic chance of diverting the train?

Trust can be won back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike not alone, need more support, e.g. media, social media power users.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack we got what we got

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I disagree on that.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack We may never find out :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike same as Tim's keys?

What user is biggest by percent of messages here?

Probably SmokeDetector

oh

but human

here ya go!

@PeterKolosov how you know?

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack sede

actually lies

there is option by most active users sorting on main chat page

runs away and laugh

@PeterKolosov See stackapps.com/q/8999

@PeterKolosov oh, you mean MSE. Thought you meant Tavern.

I have 125000 out of 1793331 messages here, making it 6.97%

Not sure it's the highest, but it's pretty high. ;)

And no chat data in SEDE so can't really know.

@PM2Ring oh nice thanks for

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack most high is SmokeDetector, but most high human is Nick Craver. ;)

@PeterKolosov that's total messages in all rooms. Most his messages are in private staff rooms, so it doesn't really count.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack mousetail is out till Thursday, if something like this needs to be done, ping ArtOfCode

@OlegValteriswithUkraine nah, not important enough. Cody asked me to ping him in chat with the names that's why I did it. :)

@PeterKolosov yeah, for many years, chat.meta also hosted the company-internal chat, and Nick always had a lot to say 😄

These days it's basically 100% moved to Slack

(and Nick isn't here anymore)

@balpha so, Nick was the staff equivalent of me? ;-)

(though I'm sure what he says actually mean something!)

@balpha pity... :(

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I think whatever I respond here is going to offend somebody, so I'll just plead the fifth 😅

lol

So now the TL is the only private room still used here by staff? @balpha

There's some minimal activity in a few leftover rooms, but it's very minimal

and the TL is a special case I guess (and on chat.se, not chat.meta)

@balpha How do I reload my chat profile?

Reloaded!

@balpha hmm weird. I see last activity of many mods and staff here in a private room, so assumed it's the TL.

But... no.

@PeterKolosov you can't. It's either waiting up to one hour, or have a mod reload it manually.

lol nicely done though @Pet ;)

So let's just wait.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack TL is not here

And one of the reasons the staff rooms was here was that we didn't have regular mods for ages

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack There was a temporary TL in MSE chat in 2020

@balpha That what @ShadowWizardStrikesBack has to say has no meaning is a known fact :D

:(

:)

@balpha at this point I would have given you coffee, but the Tavern's coffee machine (some call it Smokey) is not working. Sorry!

:D

Time for the 4 O'clock Muesli!

@Feeds This seems very good advice considering.... :D

also

@Feeds To improve at an engineer, get better at oneboxes

/me hands @ShadowWizardStrikesBack a steaming hot cup of nuclear waste

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike it's good advice for engineers and non-engineers as well!

@g3rv4 Its good advice in general too, but I was specifically thinking of the ongoing crisis/protest action/strike we're in now :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike me too ;)

it doesn't sound like the main reason why the action/strike is happening is due to engineers not requesting or receiving feedback

@g3rv4 Well, no, but folks giving feedback before taking action, and folks taking in feedback now will resolve it ;)

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike yup! not engineers though

I'm still Peter Kolosov? What?

@g3rv4 I think literally some of the responses I had to... stuff was "I am pretty sure SE engineers are too competant not to have thought of that"

@PeterKolosov caching

But I already waited a hour!

I helped you kick it the last time :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike with 0 visibility into what's happening inside, I'm pretty sure that engineers are one of the groups that are more actively giving feedback in line of the community's requests

I'm on strike, I shouldn't be using moderation tools

Maybe @Tinkeringbell or @JNat can kick ...

or only you, @JourneymanGeekOnStrike?

I did

Hooray! Thank you!

But honestly, don't make it a habit to go and ping mods for each name change ;)

@Tinkeringbell Thanks, will take into account ;)

Everyone is quiet after me! :D

@g3rv4 I am trusting that's the case

but also quite frustrated at many things so... :D

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike understandably

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike can't waste a good waste, so thanks! :P

@PetLinux woof?

Why are people upvote blatantly off-topic questions? Because strike?

Because they’ve always been doing that.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack your coffee machine bears a striking resemblance to a certain spam-detection bot

/me hands @balpha a squid ink and matcha frappe with extra isopods

that strikes me as a subpar coffee replacement

Well, sacrifices need to be made :D

@Tinkeringbell Ok thanks, trying a CM at TL.

@BuckThorn good luck!

Usually they're pretty fast with those requests

@PetLinux yeah, and spam. One clearly admitted it, but I suspect quite a few are doing it, which is bad.

It's like breaking shop windows during a street protest.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype no, never seen off topic question (clearly off topic, lost soul) upvoted until strike started.

@BuckThorn you have few here as well.

@balpha well, that spam detection? It's just a cover to hide the bot real purpose.

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Happens all the time on SO.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype well, it's bigger.

Yes. it's a chronic disease of the platform. Sadly, repeated, blatantly incorrect voting isn't really sanctioned.

@AndreasdetestsAIhype hard to detect when done in small amounts.

ha! Yaakov nuking lost souls now.

And meanwhile, I'm playing around with a spammer.

:D

@KevinB I've well hit the comment limit, so elaborating in chat instead: I hesitate to elaborate too much, as regardless of your/mine/MSE's opinion, almost everything said there was said with an expectation of it being private. That said, some of the SG Team was simply bug reports, and there isn't much value in having tons of minor bug reports on MSO, especially if the bugs will never be seen by anyone outside the private beta.

There's can also be controversial topics (no, I'm not elaborating on that), and it's helpful to get feedback privately. Also, and while I know downvotes aren't (meant to be) personal, it's tough being on the receiving end of tons of downvotes. It's often helpful to be able to suggest something and get gentle and useful constructive feedback. It's also nice to get feedback first as (in some cases) changes can be made prior to announcements on Meta for general feedback.

While Meta is absolutely important and valuable, Meta can also be very harsh at times, and that isn't really ideal when trying to gently float a new idea. Sometimes that is justified harsh feedback, but... that isn't always desired or productive. In some cases (no, I can't elaborate here either), you're trying to get feedback from those that have personally used the tools (in private beta), and so it being public isn't always useful.

I see it as more a case of... SG is a big change, one that will have consequences when it's released. Waiting until everything is built and set in stone before getting community sentiment/feedback is why we're in the mess we're in.

Context for transcript readers: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/390463/…

i find it funny how you went over the limit so came to chat, and then went over the chat message limit too

;)

iunno, maybe it just needs occational updates to be posted, here's what it is, here's what we've done, here's what we're looking at, we'll check back in in 6 months, thanks

I'm a non mod, and I fully agree with what you've said. One possible idea that could (maybe?) work is getting feedback in Stack Overflow for Teams and then asking publicly. That would allow for some constructive feedback first, but also gives the wider community a chance for input. IIRC the Moderator Council did that somewhat, but I wasn't on SE then and aren't sure about that

More progress updates and transparency would be good, I didn't mean to imply I like full-on secrecy for months. I just meant a private space for gentler feedback prior to all of Meta can be helpful

it's easy to just say we're doing X without sharing much, and then letting people on the outside just imagine it to be what they want it to be... only to be disappointed when it finally releases

happens all the time with AAA games

naturally, with SG there's already going to be a bit of skepticism around it due to how many perceive SO Docs being doomed due to the addition of rep

(we coulda had this discussion in the SG chat, i do i have access to it)

i just stopped hanging out there when i started to feel like the project was moving in an unfortunate direction

Would you mind joining that room again for a moment so I can make a comment about that (mentioning something that isn't public)?