Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

01:16

@ShadowTheSpringWizard bottom needs to be sadface

Meta Andrew T.

Just stumbled upon this, thanks to Google Feeds

CORECURSIVE #089 - Quitting (And Then Rejoining) Stack Overflow with Ben Dumke-von der Ehe

aka balpha

Journeyman Geek

01:35

@ShadowTheSpringWizard if a job makes you sick, it is toxic and you can do better

Journeyman Geek

03:01

@Andreasdetestscensorship also Zathras. I am both annoyed and amused you beat me to it.

Andreas detests censorship

03:22

@JourneymanGeek mhm... So you're the one editing my comments.

Ehm... well, that's not the response I wrote... I see the moderators are having fun editing my comments. mhm... Well, OK. — Andreas detests censorship 48 secs ago

Not that I had any idea what a Zathras was.

But he looks like the inspiration for the creatures in a TV series called Magnus. Of course, Norwegian. And very weird.

Also, don't watch episode 5 if you mind seeing rape used for jokes. Amongst others.

cocomac

04:58

Do mods have the ability to fully nuke every single message ever posted in a chatroom, without destroying the room itself?

Shadow The Spring Wizard

06:19

@M.A.R. no sad poo for the downvote. ;(

@cocomac actually even mods can't mass delete messages on chat, if user posted lots of bad messages, the mod will have to manually delete them all. (or use some script)

@starball I'm here now! :D

@RocketNikita umm... that was not my tail...

blush

@Starshipisgoforlaunch not yet, afaik

@Starshipisgoforlaunch actually Area51 isn't good example. They planned to upgrade it into Area52, whole new site with same goal, but it was stashed and gone. The current site can't be "repaired", it's broken from its very basis.

@M.A.R. why were you happy?

@JourneymanGeek I won't touch poo even with image editor! :D

I have my limits, you know. ;)

@JourneymanGeek but in case of SE staff it's more complicated than that.

@cocomac only with manually written script. But where does it come from? Is there such a terrible room?

and that concludes my pings and replies here...

Also, mod can turn a room into private, so nobody will be able to reach it, even high rep users.

Journeyman Geek

06:51

@Andreasdetestscensorship .... It wasn't me

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@JourneymanGeek but you're a mod. ;)

Journeyman Geek

..... Lemme double check

@Andreasdetestscensorship .... That post wasn't edited I think but I will triple check later

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@JourneymanGeek he's talking about comment, not a post.

cocomac

I can confirm that the comment originally said something different

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@cocomac offensive?

IMO really better for a mod to just delete a comment if finding it not appropriate. Would raise way less confusion.

Trying to "fix" it often leads to just rendering it useless.

Andreas detests censorship

07:08

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Yes, very. I can confirm that the content of my comment indeed was highly offensive.

cocomac

;)

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@Andreasdetestscensorship ♥

Andreas detests censorship

@ShadowTheSpringWizard It was a big insult to those that hold engineering in high esteem.

cocomac

@ShadowTheSpringWizard No, or at least not to my knowledge. I was wondering about something, but I found another way to solve the issue

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@Andreasdetestscensorship oh no. don't tell me.... you wrote... w3sch<redacted>....

That's reason for auto permanent ban!

@cocomac good!

cocomac

07:19

It was not some kind of horrible room, though. Just a curiosity that I thought of after a discussion elsewhere

Andreas detests censorship

@ShadowTheSpringWizard The contents of my comment are forbidden knowledge. Only the chosen few will know what it was.

@JourneymanGeek Guilty as fuck.

Oh, praise be, those that hold my royal texts sacred.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship I'm dragged along on a temple trip, and suffering from a stomach more upset than I am. I am not trusting myself with mod tools

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@JourneymanGeek sounds like a Quest

Find the Golden Chalice, and you shall be cured.

Andreas detests censorship

@JourneymanGeek Sounds exciting! The divine spirits have guided your unconscious body to act on their behalf!

Journeyman Geek

07:51

@Andreasdetestscensorship pretty sure I am not Minbari, even if I am occasionally accused of being boneheaded

Andreas detests censorship

@JourneymanGeek The evidence is levitating in front of me.

M.A.R.

08:49

@ShadowTheSpringWizard due to release of endogenous catecholamines and opiates

@ShadowTheSpringWizard whoa whoa, since when are you so sanitary?

Journeyman Geek

09:16

@Andreasdetestscensorship there's only one kinda floater in my life at the moment

......

@Andreasdetestscensorship .... I did edit it... Apparently I fat fingered it and owe you a deep apology

I also apparently missed the edit icon

For extra fun I can't edit it back

Journeyman Geek

09:43

I think I should stay off the site outside clocking in for my days visited streak till I am better ._.

M.A.R.

10:11

@JourneymanGeek take care, stay hydrated

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@M.A.R. weird, for me they're released when I'm doing other things. :D

@M.A.R. well, I need to stay alive to keep enjoying life! :P

M.A.R.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard yes, reading books is a great way to become happy

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@JourneymanGeek 1k rep should be enough compensation. ;)

@M.A.R. depends what books..... ;-O

M.A.R.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Call of the Wild

Shadow The Spring Wizard

@M.A.R. wild is good.

Just saw last night movie called Wild Life. I think. Hebrew translation was as usual terrible, giving unrelated name.

It was low budget drama about family in the 60's where the mother cheat on the father when he goes away to fight fires, and all from the viewpoint of their son.

M.A.R.

12:37

@ShadowTheSpringWizard sounds like a good movie actually

Journeyman Geek

13:14

→ 169 messages moved to Chimney

SPArcheon

13:46

afternoon.

Opinion: should we create a new meme "FAITS"?

Fastest AI In The Stack

Shadow The Spring Wizard

15:03

@M.A.R. it was fine-ish, I watched to the very expected end. ;)

@SPArcheon nah

Nord The Star Wizard

15:33

@SPArcheon instead of FGITW? :o

Journeyman Geek

Open Letter to Stack Overflow and Planned Strike

26

And yeah, this does mean I won't be doing any moderation related actions from monday. I can't speak for any of the other moderators yet

And yes, this does mean if you ping me about moderation work, I will politely turn you down.

SPArcheon

Like I said in another room

> I started writing about 4 different questions on Meta.SE, could not bring myself to complete any

Andreas detests censorship

15:51

@JourneymanGeek What if the moderation concerns my sad feelings and anger over SE?

Journeyman Geek

... wait a few days and I can provide puppy pictures.

(no, I didn't get a dog, my cousin did, and that doggo is utterly adorbs)

Also I might post

There's a period where I handed in my diamond after all

Andreas detests censorship

I wanna make a post, requiring the resignation of the CEO and the board, but I can’t motivate myself to write more than a few lines, all without references.

@JourneymanGeek :[]

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship That's generally not constructive

Andreas detests censorship

Are you ingratiating a cat person with dogs?

Journeyman Geek

Back in the Atwood days we were told "Focus on the behaviour, not the problem'

Andreas detests censorship

15:56

@JourneymanGeek Well, yes. So not posting.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship ah alas, I saw this TINY adorable kitteh in a temple

(like sitting outside the santum so I wasn't allowed to take a photo)

Andreas detests censorship

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I don’t think that’s a very good quote, especially when the problem has shown no effort to turn itself away from being a problem.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship Well - when its about 'asking people to quit' - its personal

and people will circle the wagons

Its always better to focus on the problem and not burn (too many) bridges

Andreas detests censorship

It’s been personal for a while. They are personally responsible for what’s happening. They’re the leadership. I have no issue with keeping it personal at that point.

@JourneymanGeek The bridges are already burnt.

Journeyman Geek

Well, it could get worse

Andreas detests censorship

15:59

@JourneymanGeek 😃

Spevacus

@tripleee grats on 10k btw :) (might've happened a bit ago but hey)

Journeyman Geek

I've heard worse

Andreas detests censorship

Worse than tripleee reaching 10k?

I can’t imagine.

Congrats to tripleee. ;)

Spevacus

@Andreasdetestscensorship while I get where you're coming from, I am also very strongly against any posts that call for resignations of staff. There's having genuine issues with decisions/actions and voicing those concerns, and going after someone's livelihood.

Andreas detests censorship

@Spevacus Their actions are detrimental to the livelihood of the community. And my pure speculation is that they fired staff that were vocal supporters and defenders of the community. Now, that is pure speculation, and only based on a sentence or two in the latest CEO blog post. So I cannot attribute anything steady to that.

And I am more than aware that I don’t possess the full range of information; not even nearly.

Journeyman Geek

16:03

.... I literally have a meta post about this

Andreas detests censorship

But the leadership is responsible, and they’ve had years to fix this.

@JourneymanGeek The one I already upvoted and commented on?

Journeyman Geek

29

A: Open hostility from SE staff towards the community - trying to understand it

It is a situation that swiftly went out of control. Meta has gone from a sleepy backwater, sometimes accused of being cliquish into a powderkeg. Initiatives meant to protect vulnerable folks has turned into a magnet for trolls. We usually put out fires ourselves with help. Folks are running aro...

Quite a lot of this is still true :D

Andreas detests censorship

@JourneymanGeek I have indeed missed that «thread» completely. It’s 3 years old, though, and outdated, at this point.

Journeyman Geek

69

A: Open hostility from SE staff towards the community - trying to understand it

I have a theory: shame and panic. They know there are systemic problems, they may or may not be aware that they don’t know how to fix those problems, they are on some level ashamed about both of those, and when something serious happens, they panic and act out in ways that are unfair, unclear, a...

this is amusingly precient

Andreas detests censorship

Whatever our opinions and stances are, what’s happening, is clearly polarizing, within the community. The tension increases between us.

And that’s horrible.

Journeyman Geek

16:07

Actually here

I think most mods, and a good chunk of the core community are on the same page

But

"Maybe you should try what worked before"

"Nope, we'll try something that failed before" or "We'll try something that'll lose the trust of the folks we have here, in the middle of trying to gain trust for our own LLM initiatives"

Andreas detests censorship

We approach it differently. I belong to the group that is more harsh, more direct, and wants to make more demands, and give in less. You seem to belong to the other group, that wants to continue the kinder approach, the one that has yet to give up communicating nicely, explaining, and trying to win them over this way.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship Oh, mainly because I know just what an jerk I can be

Andreas detests censorship

I would be happier if you replaced those stars with two «s»s.

Journeyman Geek

Sure, but the qbert rule ;)

Andreas detests censorship

Eh

So, the main reason why I avoid American TV, (and YouTube), is because of the constant bleeping. Every time it bleeps, a chemical reaction inside me, starts, that literally boils me over. I can’t control it. It just makes me so angry. Could be because I hate the sound. But it also angers me that it’s so pointless. And so annoying. And so rude towards the person expressing a harmless word.

I consider it a collective OCD of the population.

The inability of hearing and reading certain words.

I have it for a few other words that I’m not gonna mention here. I’m not taking the risk.

Shadow The Spring Wizard

16:19

$#$%@

bleep

Andreas detests censorship

>:(

@JourneymanGeek Well, I’m not trying to burn the community or the company down. I’m trying to get rid of those that burn it down. It’s the leadership of SO that burns it down. I have been here for many years, and it’s pretty much the only online community I belong to. I have no reason to want it dead. I do what I do, because I want it to survive. This is how I fight for it. I want to get rid of the elements that hurt it.

But at the same time, if none of our demands are met, if we keep getting ignored or lied to, we then have a definitive answer. We are free to move on, and continue our community elsewhere.

It is better we move on, than get destroyed where we are.

Because they are shredding us here. It hurts. It lasts.

It either needs to stop, or we have to move on. This situation is not healthy for us.

It’s time to take a stand, and put harsh against harsh.

We cannot allow ourselves to back down.

That is simply not sustainable.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship the thing is those elements will never be totally gone

Andreas detests censorship

@JourneymanGeek If you believe that we never get rid of the elements so successfully abusing us, you necessarily also believe that this will never end; it is your hope and desperation that make you cling on to the remainders of what we have, or once had.

That is certainly true for me. I am deeply addicted to this place. I like this place. I hope and hope that it will last. But I don’t believe it anymore. All that is left, is a faint hope.

Spevacus

@Andreasdetestscensorship I think it's how high-pitched it is

I also quite dislike it

Andreas detests censorship

16:34

@Spevacus It really does hurt the ears. But it’s quite unpleasant to read the stars instead of the words. It feels so wrong, and so abusive.

Journeyman Geek

@Andreasdetestscensorship well sure but we can help the elements on the same page as us

M.A.R.

17:00

@JourneymanGeek oh um, I have this list of things you can do before going on a strike

@Everyone quick, your free Journeyman trial is about to expire!

Shadow The Spring Wizard

17:13

lol

SPArcheon

@M.A.R. he has " computer user and hardware enthusiast" in his profile. Just tell him that it still april.

Shadow The Spring Wizard

!!/coffee Pet

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheSpringWizard brews a cup of espresso for @Pet

Shadow The Spring Wizard

:D

Peter Kolosov

@SmokeDetector LOL

Shadow The Spring Wizard

17:20

Smokey knows me.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon it's always September

Tinkeringbell

19:22

@JourneymanGeek I seriously hope not! That would mean PI planning every four weeks or so XD

Tinkeringbell

21:18

@JourneymanGeek I won't strike..not again. I'm not the kind of dumb person that does the same thing twice and expects a different outcome

So any flags raised will be handled, in between work and private life

(same for non-flagged crap like lost souls and spam)

Andreas detests censorship

@Tinkeringbell We're many people that are simply leaving this time, and not looking back, if it ends the same way as last time.

So this may be the end of the community, for us. It's up to SE.

Time to move on if they cannot meet our demands.

It seems like there's been some discussion of moving accounts and posts from SE to Codidact (not automically, I assume, but per request), so maybe that's where we'll end up.

Tinkeringbell

I wish you all the best if that is true. For me, I quit moderating MSE once, saw the flag queue grow to nearly 100 items, and it took weeks to get it back down to normal numbers. I won't fail flaggers like that again.

If everyone goes to codidact, there hopefully won't be a 100 flags.

But for those that remain, I will too.

If there's nothing remaining and I get bored, my job is done.

Andreas detests censorship

You're more than welcome to come along with those that have lost faith in SE for the final time, and move on to the next place, and continue keeping our community alive.

It's not you that are failing the community by stopping moderation; it's SE that's tying your hands, and preventing you from doing your job, and constantly treating the community badly.

Personally, I did check out Codidact in the past, but didn't like it back then. Maybe it'll be different this time.

Tinkeringbell

21:42

@Andreasdetestscensorship I will, but only once I'm sure there's nothing to do here for me anymore. I made a commitment. I'm not one to quit it easily

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