Tavern on the Meta

1:38 AM

@JourneymanGeek ugh, I just woke up and read this as "beer pressure" ...

2:18 AM

@Mithical Hi.

Journeyman Geek

2:53 AM

@MetaAndrewT. I don't think it's ethical to get a mod drunk and signing open letters

on the other hand, I guess the staff needs more beer? :)

5:15 AM

@Tinkeringbell I won't do it expecting anything, just to show 1) support in those who do hope, and 2) anger towards the management.

@MetaAndrewT. they don't deserve beer... well, ordinary staff perhaps, e.g. the CM's and the devs, but management deserves a beer ban for 10 years. :D

@Andreasdetestscensorship Codidact can be perfect, yet just not able to attract enough users, the critical mass required to make it a major player. So without enough users and activity, it can't become anything like SE.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard This was discussed between the most active curators of SO, and those with a lot of posts.

It's a serious consideration.

@Rubén there are other nice people here. ;)

If SE fails to meet our demands this time, it may very well be the end.

@Andreasdetestscensorship not nearly enough. At maximum, 100 users will move. Critical mass is thousands of actives, and millions of visitors, from which some post the actual questions. It's all good, I might try being active there, but... feels like a lost cause without a really big move e.g. migrating some existing forum into there.

Some people say I exaggerate.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Who? Me? No.

5:24 AM

@Andreasdetestscensorship that's good, sign they actually read what you write. ;)

@Andreasdetestscensorship yes you just don't know that. :D

mhm

6:04 AM

@Andreasdetestscensorship surely you jest!

@ShadowTheSpringWizard no

@M.A.R. on

Peter Kolosov

6:25 AM

stackoverflow.blog/2023/05/31/…

Yuck.

6:48 AM

@Tinkeringbell What will it take for you to go on strike, or to cease moderation? I’m curious as to why you are so determined to continue moderating, under these and future circumstances. I wonder what it would take for you to lose that determination.

7:14 AM

@Tinkeringbell I tried the ready made chicken schnitzels at our cafeteria the other day and it gave me a stomachache. Later I tried it again and it again gave me a stomachache

Sometimes, life is about stomachaches

Have you really experienced life if you don't have stomachaches

Rocket Nikita

7:32 AM

@PeterKolosov The blog has turned into crypto-currency blockchain artificial intelligence trendy I-don't-know-what thingie that I do not wish to read.

8:24 AM

@M.A.R. so try again.

@PeterKolosov heh, you read it only now? Well, it looks like he's just getting screenshots and graphs from those underneath, and think everything is awesome, totally blind to reality.

And the few who could tell him wrong and open his eyes are gone from SE by now.

(or don't want to get into it.)

9:08 AM

@Andreasdetestscensorship I will never 'strike' I think. As for ceasing moderation here entirely I have no clue yet. But probably something that makes me fully believe there is nothing left to moderate and there never will be anything again either.

@M.A.R. Yeah, that's kinda dumb.

@Tinkeringbell there will always be stuff to moderate, it's about doing it for a company that goes in wrong direction and don't even see it.

9:49 AM

@Tinkeringbell I cannot possibly think of how it could have been prevented

10:09 AM

@M.A.R. pretty sure she means the "later I tried it again" part. You could just, well, not go there again, or order something different? ;)

tripleee

11:35 AM

@Spevacus thanks, it's been a few weeks; I think I might have boasted about it here at the time

definetly spam when I translated from vietnamese

12:04 PM

@Spe congrats for reaching 20k rep! ;D

1:48 PM

@Tinkeringbell "But probably something that makes me fully believe there is nothing left to moderate and there never will be anything again either." Like a policy that pretty much allows unfettered posting of AI-generated content to your site(s)?

@CodyGray As I already told you, it's not a big deal on IPS. For MSE it sucks, but I'll find a way

It looks like I'm going to have some unexpected free time soon, so I maybe I'll check out IPS and help you increase your stats. :-D

Sure, if you want to be that kind of nasty, feel free.

I think I have enough evidence above for a formal complaint if you do.

Whaaaa???! I'd just be trying to help you and the staff achieve the kind of site that you want!

Well while you're at it make sure to drop a question or two on persuasion, as I'm not convinced

2:02 PM

You presume bad faith.

You started that by presuming my stats needed boosting.

and presuming I needed your help in boosting them

Now that's not exactly expressing good faith in my stats or my ability to boost them myself, is it?

I go only by what I am told.

I am just trying to be helpful.

#SOReadyToHelp

If I need help, I know where to find you.

I was promised "general friendly chit-chat"!

If you need help with that, just ask.

2:15 PM

Yes, I'd like to know where the friendly people are.

Dunno. It's Sunday.

Usually almost no people here on that day

@Tinkeringbell "How to deal with angry moderator?" - is this on topic for IPS? ;)

Oh, I found you one @Cody. Now have fun.

Is the bird always bitter and evil on Sundays?

@CodyGray no no, it's "General friendly chit-chat", it's a soldier, high ranked.

2:17 PM

*salutes*

yess'ir!

@CodyGray No. You know I'm like that any other day of the week as well

You're only nice to me where no one else can see the evidence. :-(

Not true

grabs popcorn

2:23 PM

It's Monday in my timezone.

So, I guess I'm on strike.

@ElementsinSpace whoa. Japan?

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Australia.

@ElementsinSpace but not Perth

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Not Perth is correct!

:)

Would be hard not to comment starting tomorrow, maybe I'll take partial strike, just no curating actions like editing, reviewing, etc.

...also no closing, hard with all the hammers. :(

@ElementsinSpace oh wait, but you're from Space... what time zone is the space?

Let's ask Google

Spacecraft Event Time (SCET)!

2:34 PM

@ShadowTheSpringWizard no I'm afraid that's not possible

@M.A.R. why? Only one dish in cafeteria?

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Space time... hmmm. The sun is always up. So, I guess it's noon.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard here are some cathartic nails 💅

@ElementsinSpace poor astronauts. :(

@ShadowTheSpringWizard no, there are several

2:38 PM

@M.A.R. so why can't you take something else?

@M.A.R. it's nail polish, I don't need it but thanks anyway! :D

@ShadowTheSpringWizard because I want chicken schnitzels

@M.A.R. but it makes you sick! :P

@ShadowTheSpringWizard such is life

calling @M.A.R's parents

Well I admit keep eating when having bad stomach in general when advise is to stop eating (except plain rice or something like that), but not the thing that gave me the ache. ;)

(if I know what it was)

eating chocolate bar

@ShadowTheSpringWizard I might have guessed.

2:48 PM

@ShadowTheSpringWizard if you eat more of the food that gave you the stomachache 1) you're showing the bacteria who's boss, and 2) they will realize their efforts are futile and eventually give up

If only I gave this sage advice to @Journey earlier.

@ElementsinSpace so what I had in addition to the chocolate, right next to it? ;)

@M.A.R. awesome, eat the chicken ten more times, let me know who won. :D

(and Tink, when she'll feel better)

(and @Elements who appear to be curious as well)

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Another chocolate bar? (Or maybe that popcorn you mentioned earlier. I sure hope it wasn't the nail polish.)

@ElementsinSpace I know people who sniffed nail polish as kids, but not anyone who ate (drank?) it lol. But no, not another chocolate, I have my limits. :D

Something fluid.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Something with bubbles, sugar, and artificial flavours.

@ElementsinSpace nope (well, the sugar part is correct ;))

Now that's something worth asking ChatGPT!

> what did Shadow Wizard have besides the chocolate bar?

If it answers correctly, I promise to start using it. :D

2:59 PM

@ShadowTheSpringWizard You drive a hard bargain.

:D

All I can think of is: a chicken milkshake, but that seems rather unlikely.

rofl

Well it's "too obvious to be true" case. haha!

!!/coffee of course! :P

Regular aitch-twenty?

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheSpringWizard brews a cup of ristretto for @of

3:13 PM

lol

!!/tea coc

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheSpringWizard brews a cup of Earl Grey tea for @coc

cocomac

Thanks!

!!/coffee @Shadow

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Coffee is good, but aren't you in some kinda afternoon time zone? How will you sleep.

@cocomac oh, Smokey add the ping flavor, and ignores messages with a ping, assuming they're meant for somebody else. ;)

@ElementsinSpace lol coffee only make me more tired. :P

No worry, water solve it.

Many times I have coffee in 2am, before going to sleep.

Do you brush your teeth before or after the coffee?
You *do* brush your teeth don't you?

3:41 PM

umm sure! ;)

wondering why going to dentist so often

lol every time I refresh the open letter page, the number increase.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard You should refresh more often then.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard unfortunately I feel that only a bit more than 10% of mods supporting this, is not enough, there are currently 539 mods

DavidPostill

3:59 PM

@Vickel Smokey will be turned off as well, so prepare for an influx of unhandled spam.

I know...

@Vickel Mods on the busiest sites are the most impactful TBF. A bunch of chill blokes far away from the troubles of the mainland on Shipbuilding.SE were not going to strike anyway.

Besides, I feel like the gesture itself here is far more important

^ sure, but for me being active on SO, some of their key mods are missing...

(Which is really the only thing someone like me can offer that haven't had meaningful activity ever since before 2019)

2019 . . . feels old

some spam:meta.stackexchange.com/questions/389805/…

4:06 PM

@ElementsinSpace I won't ever get people who brush their teeth after meals

Too clean shivers

If I brush my teeth more often than twice a day I'll bleed my gums

everyone please sign this:openletter.mousetail.nl

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I'm ignoring spam, because of the strike.

te strike starts tommorrow @ElementsinSpace additionally, meta participation and I assume meta moderating will continue

Today is tomorrow (in my timezone)

@Starshipisgoforlaunch Those that are on strike, strike everywhere on the network.

4:25 PM

I've stopped 2 days ago curating SO/SE content, so I'll stay at the moment with my 3,082 helpful flags and 5,953 votes cast

gosh, thats a lost @Vickel

@Starshipisgoforlaunch well, we'll see soon if all the effort together makes an impact...

me need more people. tommorrow we advertise it on every child meta. @Vickel

please make sure to upvote those posts so it gets to Hot Meta Posts and is more visible

and mods on those sites please feature it

@Starshipisgoforlaunch That was in no way, shape or form, spam

What was not spam?@Tinkeringbell

4:35 PM

See the message I replied to

@Andreasdetestscensorship meta is for discussion and making things known to the community, dont strik there

@Tinkeringbell oh, that. i cant even see the post anymore and i dont rememeber what was in it, but it seems someone else agreed with me since its deleted

@Starshipisgoforlaunch Aren't we meant to suspend voting?

@ElementsinSpace from a comment here:https://gist.github.com/superplane39/12e8e7692c54f3e647364e0b066b06c2
By not posting [and moderating on meta ], we are hiding the strike from the community itself; this is not acceptable. In addition, a strike has no effect, if the reasons for the strike are not made clear. SE needs to be told exactly why we're on strike. Other visitors must be notified of the ongoing strike. Most importantly; not all curators participate on Discord (myself included). Everyone must be included, and the only way to do that, is to post [and as such moderate] on Meta. I'm s…

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I deleted it. It was off-topic. Not spam.

@Tinkeringbell ok, sure, i cant see it but ill take your word for it. also, dont we not delete off-topic posts, just close them?

4:42 PM

And if you really think something is spam, you should've flagged accordingly. You flagged it as off-topic too, not as spam. So you knew better but still put it in this room as spam.

MSE deletes blatantly off-topic posts (usually just posts posted on the wrong site) as they're unsalvageable anyways

oh, ok then. maybe i was thinking of a differnet one of the 50 posts ive flagged during the past 24 hrs

@Starshipisgoforlaunch no.

4

@Starshipisgoforlaunch no.

4

@Starshipisgoforlaunch no.

4

@MetaAndrewT. Are you against the strike?

@MetaAndrewT. No to what?

@ElementsinSpace not really, but my sites are already dead, no point in doing the strike.

4:48 PM

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I will attempt to get that amended to specify that Meta should remain unused for moderation purposes of the main site, such as tag moderation, burninations, etc.

@MetaAndrewT. what do you mean with my sites are already dead? I suppose you talk about the 2 you are moderating?

@Starshipisgoforlaunch not to "someone who is not a regular/has contributed to the site trying to sabotage a meta site", because we mods have been warned for the same action.

@MetaAndrewT. Well I'm sorry to hear that.

@Vickel yes, me stopping moderation won't really affect anything; there's not so much needing to be moderated there

@MetaAndrewT. i dont understand

4:54 PM

well, you don't need to understand...

@MetaAndrewT. android had some spam to deal with lately, IIRC

@MetaAndrewT. generally when one responsed (three times!) to someone they care about the person understanding their response....

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I already responded with the reason: non-regulars sabotaging meta sites.

5:34 PM

what does non-regulars sabotaging meta sites even mean @MetaAndrewT.

and thank you smoke detector, that is spam

just remembered what happened last time I thanked smoke detector...

chat.meta.stackexchange.com//transcript/message/9513770#9513770

6:07 PM

@Vickel hopefully some will at least partially strike without signing the letter.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch no, this is not spam. Better not have "wolf! wolf!" with spam.

Not every off topic question is spam, it's just off topic and need to be closed/deleted, but that's it.

@M.A.R. he means two times a day, I think. When waking up, and before going to sleep.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard on SO 14 out of 48 mods have signed so far (2 hours ago)

@Starshipisgoforlaunch you really don't see the small arrow that leads to the message being replied to?

There is such an arrow, check it out and you'll see what people are replying to. Magic!

oh, cool @ShadowTheSpringWizard

Well, about time you'll know it.

After others also told you about it...

meh.

@Vickel 48 mods! huh, they surely multiply fast. :D

Well that's not very good, but still, it's not like it would matter. SE won't change their mind.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch people who are not part of the sites (like you and me for example) barge to the per-site meta and spam them with advertisement to something.

Those who really want, know it's happening and where to check for details.

I've got the data of stackoverflow mods from this link: stackexchange.com/about/moderators?by=users, then typing "stackoverflow" in the input field

6:19 PM

The goal (more people striking) is important, but it doesn't justify everything.

@Vickel ohhh, that's also the localized sites, thought you mean only the English/main SO.

Should be around 20 there, so I was bit shocked.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard now 30% have signed, if 60% would sign, it would be different (like a clear majority, but I'm afraid you are right)

27 mods on SO.

Nine times MSE lol

@ShadowTheSpringWizard some are moderating SO and language versions the same time

@Vickel still, the actual number is on the site's users page, mods tab. :)

se.com is buggy, I don't trust the data there anyway.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard you are absolutely right, just double checked

6:27 PM

Using too much cache, things get stuck, not synched, etc.

little question:should PLDI strike being that it is in private beta and if it has little actiivty it will be shut down. what about the public beta site who can still get shut down if spam is left unmoderated?

so we have over 50% SO mods who signed (2 hours ago): 27 :: 14

Worst is the network profile, there are tons of bugs about incorrect data there, deleted posts still showing, and more.

@Vickel you can @triple check then! ;-)

Mithical

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I'd advise against it.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch each to their own. Better just let each user/mod to decide for themselves, they know the cost and possible results.

Mithical

6:30 PM

You don't want to get the private beta shut down, and it striking doesn't have any significant impact on the rest of the network or the internet at large.

3

ok then

i would like to add that 50% of unix+linux (the next biggest community) mods are also signers

6:48 PM

how about public beta

Rocket Nikita

In the open letter it is said that @SmokeDetector will be shutdown, may I ask, when?

@ShadowTheSpringWizard That's an interesting interpretation of the phrase "after the coffee" that I had not considered

@RocketNikita Presumably on Monday, but I'm not sure what timezone it lives in.

presumably at UTC time @RocketNikita

Mithical

@RocketNikita 04:01 UTC

8:59 PM

someone please make a meta question explaining the following:1.You can join the strik here:openletter.mousetail.nl 2.why we are striking 3.what would need to happen for us to stop

9:10 PM

No.

9:25 PM

why? @Tinkeringbell does this have to do with your minority opinion that this strike should be "private" for some reason?

9:36 PM

No, it has to do with my opinion that I'm not going to do your work for you.

So far of all the users in here, you seem to be the only one busy with coming up with as many plans as possible to get attention for this strike, yet you end up expecting others to do that for you.

That's not how any of this works

i cant ask questions on meta @Tinkeringbell

ask to my other one, here is my reasoning. 1:I wont ask the announcments question on stacks im not familiar with (under 200 rep) and I certainly wont make an account to ask it 2.That leaves meta, astronomy, chess, and space exploration. Ask mentioned before, i cant ask questions on meta. Same for chess. I am suspended on space exploration. That leaves astronomy. Sure, ill do it for astronomy, but thtat leaves 174 other sites. @Tinkeringbell

9:52 PM

No need to be that excited. A post is coming in 5-6 hours.

Oleg Valter is with Ukraine

I was just making sure that said post(s) would exist at some point @Andreasdetestscensorship

10:09 PM

and they will, provided there is wider community and moderator support, no need to force that. I risk of sounding like a broken record lately, but have to restate what I already mentioned in other channels: no community, moderator, or curator should feel pressured into participating, that's not what our goal is.

4

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

i know, but our goal is to make this highly public, visible, and known. Moderators deciding not to participate is different than not knowing about it @OlegValteriswithUkraine

10:37 PM

@Starshipisgoforlaunch Wouldn't moderator channels be a better place to publicize it?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

you may do that, im not a mod. also, we want normal users as well @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog

Also, after having done more research on the implications of the policy, I don't agree with its implementation. Given my near-personal experience with people getting falsely accused - see daily49er.com/news/2022/06/09/… or on Wayback Machine if it doesn't load in your country - I agree with its principles and intention but would still like to see it rolled back.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I don't have access.

10:56 PM

made the post on astronomy:astronomy.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/912/…

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog you dont have access to what

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog When I click on the "daily49er" link it says Access Denied.

oh wait, there it is on Wayback Machine (like you said)

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog You say "near-personal experience", how were you connected to that particular story?

11:13 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog You are not a moderator, and so you are incapable of agreeing or disagreeing on the implications of the policy, if you only rely on the public version of the policy.

(I am also not a moderator)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@M.A.R. well, I did say it was late night coffee, before sleep. ;)

@Starship you appear to be too excited about it, and it only harm the cause. This isn't something we should push people to do, which is what you try to do. Please, let it be as it is, without trying to publish in any possible place or worrying about it. If people won't know so be it, I believe vast majority of mods are well aware, and some just choose to not take part which is totally fine.

5

I saw it mentioned in a comment, and asked to join. Nobody asked me to do it, and that's how it should be.

11:30 PM

@Starshipisgoforlaunch Private moderator space.

@ElementsinSpace I was a student in the class in question. I narrowly escaped getting falsely accused but I personally know classmates who were caught in the net.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog "narrowly" huh. Hows does that work?

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Hi All ! :D

@ShadowTheSpringWizard i just want to publicize what is happening, no point in a hidden strike

@ShadowTheSpringWizard I don't see how publishing posts about the strike, harms the cause at all. I'm sure there a lots of regular users that would want to join in, that might otherwise not even realise it was happening.

@ElementsinSpace he probably wrote different code.

@Rubén hola!

11:44 PM

In addition @ShadowTheSpringWizard, you arent actually signed...openletter.mousetail.nl

@ElementsinSpace it's about pushing people around, it's like putting stickers on cars to advertise something.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch I am, look for just Shadow Wizard which is my "vanilla" name.

I like adding flavors, still thinking about my strike name.

Oh, I didnt realize @ShadowTheSpringWizard It isnt pushing people around to have one post announcing that a major event is happening

Also, I believe some would strike without signing.

@Starshipisgoforlaunch one on each meta, on each mod room etc. That's a lot.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard ¡Hola! (Thank you for the Spanish greeting. Do you speak Spanish fluently?)

@Rubén lol no, that's one of very few words I know in Spanish. :D

11:47 PM

@ShadowTheSpringWizard :D

Just making sure, @Mithical strike doesn't include chat, right? Because I plan to keep chatting.

Let me know anytime that you want to learn few more.

AFAIK the strike only include using mod privileges

Also, not that I plan to do that, but how one can unsign it? @Mith

@Rubén no it's also says no posting or commenting.

@ShadowTheSpringWizard Ups... I have to read it again

> I am not a moderator on any stack exchange site, how can I help?
Even if you are not a moderator you can participate in the strike by:

Not voting on posts
Not submitting edits
Not reviewing in the review queues
Not commenting
Not flagging posts

2

11:51 PM

waffles

Well nobody will punish you for posting or commenting. :D

I take it as "each to his/her own".

@ShadowTheSpringWizard That is in the FAQ. IIRC commenting was not explicitly included in the main content, but it might be included in the "not limited to"

The lack of editing, closing, and deleting should have the greatest impact.

@Rubén yeah, good point.

@Vickel yummy!

:)

But also reminds me of Sam. :(

oh my, just noticed something. @Meta you mimicked Jeff!

Was nice to see he's still checking up on SE, and trying to help the good side, aka community.