Tavern on the Meta

7:40 AM

sniffing air

@KevinB mod can't help when it's cross site.

@DialFrost orning

@user438383 the script is per-site so yeah, it won't detect e.g. one downvote on each of 20 sites.

If it's one time thing better leave it be, if it's repeated, submit a contact us form and SE staff can handle it.

8:03 AM

→ 27 messages moved to Chimney

@ShadowTheKidWizard better?

why was this one moved to Chimney though? it's still up

in Chimney, 13 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (69): What is the relation between crystals and crystal bases?‭ by crystals bygzk‭ on math.SE

also this

in Chimney, 45 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, link at beginning of answer, potentially bad asn for hostname in answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer (125): Magento2 Install Schema cant add FK‭ by MartenCooler‭ on magento.SE

and this

in Chimney, 1 hour ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (64): Is my non-standard outlet box grounding screw code-compliant? (US in 2022)‭ by Kamel‭ on diy.SE

and the movies one, but I cast the final flag so it's gone now

@tripleee Because I wasn't going to check 27 of them individually and you repost them anyways :P

huh, I think there's a user script which checks which ones can be moved, check with @rene or someone?

math one gone now

Only the diy one is still up.

waffles

8:08 AM

Nah, I just flagged that one away.

DYI gone too now, thanks (-:

Meta Andrew T.

migrated all to Chimney.SE

@tripleee You too for reposting them :P

@Tinkeringbell my nose is thanking you a lot. :P

8:33 AM

flag-pls spam returning spammer math.stackexchange.com/a/4588296

9:59 AM

@tripleee flagged, and amazed and baffled by the site users who have no idea what spam is and refuse to flag.

Hopefully their mods do know what spam is.

(still up of course, need Smokey people to flag as the site is oblivious to spam.)

1:52 PM

@tripleee someone (think Makyen) said not to mark/flag non English as spam.

Nov 23 at 17:00, by Makyen

@ShadowTheKidWizard Just because something is in a language which isn't appropriate for the site (e.g. non-English on most sites) doesn't make the post TP for feedback to SmokeDetector. Feedback for posts in the wrong language should be based on what the content means. A substantial number of people rely on machine translation (e.g. Google Translate) to see what the content is, at least generally. In this case, the text appears to be a potentially reasonable question for the site, if it was in English. So, NAA feedback would be appropriate. It actually looks like the user posted at least part of their question as an answer. Please see: Feedback Guidance: Foreign-language posts on English sites (or vice versa) for a more detailed discussion of feedback on posts in the wrong language for the site.

@ShadowTheKidWizard it's a returning spammer, look for Albert and Jose in metasmoke

So not marking this as tp and not flagging.

@tripleee there's no spam link.

they are offering media promotions, it's just coincidental that it's in Spanish, just like the Vietnamese and Indonesian gambling spam you see here every day

It's just non English nonsense.

@tripleee well, you have to convince Makyen, not me. :)

His message is quite clear.

these are two different topics; posts in a foreign language are not, by definition, spam; but spam posts in any language are

it may not be idiomatic Spanish (I wouldn't know) but it's clear enough that they offer a media campaign, and if you look in metasmoke, I'm sure you will find that Makyen too has flagged these in the past ... they are particularly easy because the message is precisely identical every time

apanrt from the few times when they changed from Alberto to Jose for example

this one for example was flagged by Makyen

or if you want the Jose variant, here, from 15 hours ago

Continuous delivery, meet continuous security

2:01 PM

Might be; I prefer to not take my chances, like with reviews where I'm not sure so I skip.

Site mods might handle it in 6-8 hours. :)

Feeds

Ryan Donovan on November 30, 2022

Dynamic application security testing (DAST) can help catch security flaws in your code. And it can do it automatically in your build process.

@Feeds Continuous Ryan bug, onebox is nice except for that.

> ... and has delivered hundreds of talks and trainings on 6 continents.

Let me guess: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe?

I do wonder how SO finds those people and convince them to write for them.

2:41 PM

There's no more soup... :( :( :(

That's how it was before:

Workplace perk. :D

@DialFrost u love soup?

Tink is on the roll today with lost souls! :D

@ShadowTheKidWizard Pro-tip: carry your own stash :P

@Tinkeringbell I do, at home! ;)

At work it's just a bonus. :D

Ah. I do generally keep a packet in my work bag, just in case I get really, really hangry.

This is the first time they give soup though, usually it's just nuts or biscuits.

That's also nice :)

2:47 PM

@Tinkeringbell hangry sounds tough, much worse than hungry. :D

Office I go to, you get free (fancy) coffee/tea/cold water, if you want anything else you'll have to use the vending machines or restaurant. But with free hot water and a packet of soup I can make my own :D

@ShadowTheKidWizard Eh, I've never been hungry in my life. At most I really felt like eating something.

@Tinkeringbell yeah, same here, plus random perk once in a while.

@Tinkeringbell did you miss my pan? :(

;-)

@ShadowTheKidWizard Only if another coworker brings it, over here ;)

@Tinkeringbell cakes!! I've made a fortune on Workplace.SE over this. :P

Heh. Yeah, they're fond of bringing birthday cakes. Got a bit of grumping about it, my birthday was during summer holidays, when I returned another half of the coworkers were on vacation, so I never got around to sharing cake. Now they're asking me months later to bring cake... like yeah no, birthday time is really gone now XD

2:55 PM

Bring a $0.01 cake from Max Store ;)

We don't have something like that over here XD

@Tinkeringbell too bad :P

It has become waaaay too expensive to buy ready-made cake. So if anything, I will probably end up bringing either a more luxurious kind of cookie or make something myself anyways :)

@Tinkeringbell well here we have cakes in the supermarket for $3

Well you can get a simple apple pie for like €5, which I guess is about as expensive as the ingredients to make one yourself. But if you want something a bit more fancy, like a cheesecake, it's easily 7 or 8 euros but you I can make one myself with things I already have at home anyways, and that cost less alltogether.

taarten.plus.nl/show_cat/?catid=4 < Those are current prices, the apple pie got more expensive too

3:06 PM

@Tinkeringbell yeah, fancy cakes here can easily reach $100.

It's just no longer fun to even invite visitors if you look at what the groceries for that cost XD

It's like buying diamond: you pay for the sheer size and quality. :D

Tried that once, didn't work out XD

Had a jeweller promise me she could make me a ring that matched a cheap (gilded) plastic one from the store, in rose gold with a real diamond.... Anytime I asked how things were going there was another excuse, and in the end I just gave up. Didn't make a downpayment either, so it was easy to just stop asking.

@Tinkeringbell huh. But why would you want such a thing to begin with?

@ShadowTheKidWizard I used my first real paycheck to buy some jewelry (necklace, bracelet, watch, earrings). I wanted to complete the set with a ring, but did not like the design of any they had on sale.

I did really like the design of one I already had, so she offered to make me one.

And since I was throwing around money like it was free toiletpaper anyways...

3:20 PM

@Tinkeringbell oh, sentimental. ;)

@Tinkeringbell well she probably realized you don't have enough to cover what she had in mind, question is why she didn't just say that.

@ShadowTheKidWizard That, and I was full time in an office environment that looked a bit disapproving upon mere hoodies and jeans, so I decided to adapt a bit.

Diamond cost a lot.

@ShadowTheKidWizard Eh, we discussed the costs, with her being the one throwing out a number for what she said she could do it for. I agreed to that number.

@Tinkeringbell with jewelry?

If she figured the number she gave me wasn't sufficient, she should indeed have been honest. I might've agreed to a new number, or cancelled...

3:22 PM

@Tinkeringbell and then she just disappeared?

@ShadowTheKidWizard Among other things.

@Tinkeringbell blue hair?

@ShadowTheKidWizard Oh no, the store is still there. But I got tired of visiting and asking XD

@Tinkeringbell oh lol

She has my phone number, if she ever finishes the thing she can call.

3:23 PM

@Tinkeringbell hehe, expect a call in 50 years! :D

Well, I'll just hope she doesn't call in the next hour-or-so. I'm gonna go prepare and eat dinner.

o/

Just... don't answer? ;)

I have no problem just ignoring calls.

Wait... dinner?? Isn't it like 4:30pm in your place? @Tink

3:35 PM

what's wrong with eating at 4:30pm

3:46 PM

@KevinB dinner should be at evening from the definition I know. ;)

around here it's dark at 4:30, so that's evening

@KevinB oh.

or, dusk, rather

Makyen

4:04 PM

@tripleee cc @Tinkeringbell Yes, the SOCVR Archiver (install) is set up (for ROs and Mods) such that, upon clicking a button, it will scan messages here in the Tavern, pick the ones from SmokeDetector (and replies with feedback to SD, along with some commands) for "completed" reports, and display those in a popup, which then has options for the RO or mod to move the messages to the Chimney, or other room that they choose. The various *-pls requests are also selected and put in the popup, if the request is "complete". The mod or RO can then choose to exclude individual messages, if they want.

For SmokeDetector messages, the primary criteria will be that the chat message is >4 hours old. For *-pls requests, the primary criteria will be that the request is old. How long varies based on the type of request. Also for SmokeDetector reports, if the AIM userscript is installed, and the report is still visible in the main chat, then the Archiver will also consider the feedback which the report has received in determining if the report should be archived earlier than the time limit.

I don't recall if the Archiver was fully adapted to handle having to check the post status from multiple SE sites, so the criteria that's used for selecting SD reports based on post status (e.g. deletion) prior to the length of time since posting criteria may not be properly functioning. I'd need to double-check.

The intent is that the Archiver be useful here in the Tavern to make archiving things into the Chimney, and moves to other rooms, easy (along with its other functions). If there are things that are not working as desired, please let me know.

4:48 PM

flag-pls spam puzzling.stackexchange.com/a/118880/31336

@ShadowTheKidWizard prepare and eat ;) and I'm horribly slow on the prep

@Makyen Thanks! I might add that on the personal computer, but probably not on the work laptop. On the once a year occasion that I do decide to manually move messages to chimney, we can rely on reposts ;)

Q: Help us identify new roles for community members

5:09 PM

44

TL;DR: The Community Team has been doing discovery work on the possible creation of new community roles across the Stack Exchange network and individual sites. We started by approaching site moderators, and now we want to hear from the broader community about the different roles you would like t...

^ good idea, problem is many sites are basically dead zones, with zero community, zero chat usage and maybe 1-2 questions/day...

I doubt you can create investment in a dead site that does not reward you in anyway because all the fake internet points only work with tons of people voting.

@SPArcheon I dunno. I'm very skeptical, most of what the answers there are suggesting could just as well be a badge, or a privilege unlocked some other way that rep (like gold badge dupe hammers already are). I think this will mostly be a bunch of time spent on it that could be done doing other things, like getting every site a staging ground...

@Tinkeringbell fair point, I was kinda stopping even before that.

I mean, even Arqade nowadays gets an average of 10 questions/day. Sharepoint gets more, but no one get voted.

If I was driven off the site by the lack of recognition, why would I spend my time organizing events?

@SPArcheon The whole recognition thing also is... Yucky. Either you get an in-crowd recognizing another part of the same in-crowd (like arbitrarily 'awarding roles' based on personal preference, or popularity contests called elections), or you get users patting their own back by picking certain roles, or you're back at automatically awarding things and that's just badges. If badges weren't enough for you, why would an automatically awarded role be?

I browsed the first 150 questions on SharePoint ordered by date, backing to 11th Nov (so... 150 questions in half a month. Compare with SO...). Out of those only 8 have a score of 1. And I said 1 because not a single one is above that.

@Tinkeringbell The point is that the reputation system, badges etc... are made with tunnel vision on SO numbers. It is incredibly hard to get to the required numbers on most other sites, so people are driven off.

5:25 PM

@SPArcheon That still doesn't sound like roles to me. That sounds like the badge system may need beta site levels, like privileges already have.

Even if you WANTED to contribute on a site, after you spend months scavenging for votes and don't even reach 10k... you go "play something else"

10k in a month is a very unrealistic goal. If you're really after that, yeah... Cookie clicker is better for you.

@Tinkeringbell Then I fear I was unclear because that is EXACTLY what I meant. The existing system is already bad at creating engagement, I don't think a new one built on top of that can do better. Fix the existing problems instead.

@Tinkeringbell blame missing "S", see edit.

@SPArcheon Hmm. I responded more to your 'good idea' than to your 'problem is' part of the message ;)

@SPArcheon months is still pretty short... Especially if you're scavenging it just isn't a realistic expectation.

To put in context. more than 140 answers on Sharepoint over the course of many years got me about 6k before I stopped trying (never getting a single answer on my question may have contributed). 47 answers on Sci-fi gave me about the same amount.

And most are about ponies, not obscure undocumented settings that I spent hours studying.

5:32 PM

@JNat NSFW profile: stackexchange.com/users/27096545

@SPArcheon My best scoring answers are basically just brain farts here on MSE. It's usefulness that is judged, not effort.

@rene What, she's fully clothed!

@JNat NSFW profile: stackexchange.com/users/27097403

I think I could pull of a dress like that to office if I weren't morbidly obese..

@Tinkeringbell I can't care less.

Of course you can't if she's fully clothed... Men. :P

5:35 PM

Wait ... how did I get the blame here? Woman ... :p

Ouch, nice one! You had some practice, it seems :P

Yeah, don't get me started ...

sorry.

more of a mix of Usefulness and Visibility.
Like some wise man said once...

> If someone posted an useful answer in the forest and no one sees it, did he really posted it?

6:10 PM

@Tinkeringbell the NSFW part is the offered services, one can't enjoy them while at work. :D

@rene you're not forgiven

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheKidWizard It's Shadow The Kid Wizard's fault.

hmm

Meta Andrew T.

hmm

urgh now I have to remember the last unread inbox messages count in order to know if I have new messages. :-{

61 and counting.

Meta Andrew T.

You're like me, except for email (477 unread emails and counting)

6:15 PM

easier to just adblock the inbox icon

6:39 PM

@rene No need to apologize!

@ShadowTheKidWizard Wanna bet? Bet there are plenty who do. Or at least who call it 'working (late)' :P

6:56 PM

The only benefit I see the roles system existing is being able to use it in the future for temporary or permanent roles as needed for... special purposes. Like say if every year on SO a burnination team is put together in the fall to root out useless tags and clean them up. short-term privilege escalation

i don't really see the value in assigning roles automatically to provide privileges when existing systems can already do that

not really much need for them on smaller sites

@Tinkeringbell I mean actually using the services, not just look. :P

@MetaAndrewT. huh. I keep only 12. But for years. :D

My work email getting automatic alerts, so can reach 1000 in couple of days easily.

@KevinB yeah, it's too complex and too vague, can't see this happening.

7:43 PM

i don't like the idea of it beign solely an appointed thing either

leads to a case of looking like favoritism/elitism/in-crowd

8:12 PM

The whole thing is... It lacks any kind of justification as to why this is an absolutely necessary thing to add, and why it is getting priority over fixing existing problems and implementing existing requests.

I noted it elsewhere but the lack of a critical attitude towards it on that post to me is.. surprising, to say the least. Users have been throwing out ideas like this is some kind of winter bash "show your hats" post.

no fun allowed

Well sure but then at least appropriately tag your post with the fun tag

Or april-fools :P

bobble

8:49 PM

If a site has clear support for getting rid of certain parts of the punctuation rewriter (puzzling.meta.stackexchange.com/q/7419), how would they best go about requesting an exception?