Tavern on the Meta - 2022-03-29

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Journeyman Geek

00:28

I can only check for here

@forestdistrustsStackExchange Dec 2019

forest distrusts StackExchange

00:42

OK so I should be good.

Journeyman Geek

01:11

unless you got suspended elsewhere

forest distrusts StackExchange

First and only time was on MSE.

Spevacus

Hey, if you run, good luck!

forest distrusts StackExchange

01:52

@JourneymanGeek What happens if no one nominates themselves for an election period?

forest distrusts StackExchange

02:34

I nominated myself, just in case.

If it weren't on such a slow and well-behaved site, I'd probably pass up the opportunity.

Spevacus

@forestdistrustsStackExchange If nobody nominates, a decision is typically made by the CMs on whether or not to extend the nomination period. If after that extension there are no candidates, the election is considered a failed election and is cancelled with no appointments, barring other unforeseen circumstances.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@Spevacus Ah. How many moderators are accepted in each election?

Spevacus

Typically the CMs chat with the current mods and discuss how many mods they need. Then the number of "positions available" (on the election page there should be a label for this, for Crypto this is 1 position) is set.

Sometimes, due to additional moderator demand, the runner(s) up will be called up after the election. This happened on Stack Overflow today, actually: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/416887/11171084

If there are no runners up, then I suppose the existing mods could request that the CMs schedule another election sooner than normal, but only if there's some assurance that it won't be a failed election.

forest distrusts StackExchange

02:51

Ah ok

Catija

03:32

@Spevacus The first extension is automated by the new election system. If there's not enough candidates, it gets extended without our intervention.

Spevacus

Hooray for automation!

Catija

We only call up runners up if that doesn't mean calling up the last person running - so if an election for three had four candidates, we'd not call the fourth person up.

3 hours later…

Journeyman Geek

06:05

@forestdistrustsStackExchange hm, even then, I'd have some concerns :D

You wouldn't really want to disappear for a few months at a time (and that happens) and even on a less active/well behaved site, you probably want to spend at least 30 minutes a day

forest distrusts StackExchange

06:19

@JourneymanGeek I just travel a lot, but I can get on the Internet most of the time. I just usually don't.

Lol someone is now accusing me of being a pervert because I have an anime girl as an avatar.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange manga actually but guess only few know the difference, I'm not one of them. ;)

forest distrusts StackExchange

Well it's manga and anime. I watched the anime.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

And yeah, users of InfoSec aren't really the type to like anime/manga.

So, they distrust the different, as all people.

forest distrusts StackExchange

Crypto, not Sec.SE. Info sec folks don't seem to mind. Fwiw it's our local troll who's making the accusation. :P

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

oh lol

Well crypto people are just cryptic. ;)

forest distrusts StackExchange

06:32

s/troll/person who gets in fights with everyone because all their answers are conspiracy theories/

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange well, ignoring them is the best weapon...

forest distrusts StackExchange

I do admit anime can get a bad rap. It's not for everyone.

yeah, ignore and report :p

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange I can bet it won't work in SO case, like I said before, way too many people, some very talented, really hate SO with all their heart, so it's a special case. And SO management should be well aware of that.

forest distrusts StackExchange

Same is true with a lot of projects. You may underestimate just how many people hate Linux devs!

And I mean viscerally hate.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Well not familiar with that, but Linux was open source from the very beginning.

forest distrusts StackExchange

06:37

Solaris wasn't, and it worked out fine. But then it went closed again because Oracle bought it and killed it. :(

Remember, someone did manage to hack themselves an admin account even without it being open. :P

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah, so imagine what could happen if it was open. The exploit that person found by chance (probably) would have been visible for everyone to see, and if blackhats saw it first, they could launch very massive attack, get like 100 admin accounts and use them in same time to, well, nuke SE out of orbit.

It's a Russian Roulette.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar More realistically, it would have been caught by a whitehat and fixed via embargo.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange maybe. Maybe not. I don't want SE to take such risk.

forest distrusts StackExchange

There are more whitehats than blackhats out there. And I say that as a blackhat.

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar It's taking more of a risk remaining closed, statistically.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

I'm not a big fan on SE, but don't want them to shut down either.

forest distrusts StackExchange

06:50

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar Remember too, a lot of the vital code SE runs is already open source.

Hell, a significant portion of Windows is actually open, surprisingly.

And let me put it this way. Like I said, I'm a blackhat. I can't speak for all of them, but I personally find it more difficult to find bugs in open source projects because all the low hanging fruit has been fixed, whereas a serious bug in a closed source project is often an hour's fuzz away.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Good points, but I still think it's a risk not worth taking.

forest distrusts StackExchange

The risk is in keeping it the way it is.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Not after all those years, at least. If it was open source from the beginning, it could be better indeed.

forest distrusts StackExchange

Oh, I think I get what you mean. Like the initial inrush of scrutiny?

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah

forest distrusts StackExchange

06:56

That's an issue if it's all released at once, or released in a very poor state. Based on the size of SE, I'd estimate that the maturity of the codebase is high enough that it would stand up to scrutiny pretty well. If components are open sourced over time, the risk is mitigated even further (which is often how it's done).

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

07:15

@forestdistrustsStackExchange I agree with this, yes. My objection is to make it all open source at once.

forest distrusts StackExchange

ah

OK fair enough. :P

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Anyway, is it common/normal to feel as if you're diving in water when you have a big sneeze?

goes to post question on Medical.SE

forest distrusts StackExchange

I don't know what it feels like to dive in water, so I have no idea.

I hate water.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh. Well hard to describe, it's pressure in the ears, and inside the head when you dive deep too fast.

(not in the ocean, my experience is swimming pools, max 2 meters.)

forest distrusts StackExchange

Well, a sneeze does result in a momentary spike in blood pressure.

And diving too fast probably does the same thing.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

07:18

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh this might explain it.

@Philippe hey, just curious, why didn't you update Anita and Lisa when updating the Community Team list? Or are they still working for SE and just somehow lost their staff label, i.e. a bug?

@Luuklag might just be a bug with staff label, you have other source telling they don't work for SE anymore?

Journeyman Geek

peeks

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

pokes

Journeyman Geek

Ah I see

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Both of them still have About Me saying they work for SE.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Or didn't bother to edit

Deja vue

Now

> The Community Strategy team (led by Philippe) consists of the team leads for each of the teams, as well as Nic, our data analyst, and Berthold, who is the main CM for Collectives on Stack Overflow, and looks after our liaison work with the product team (this is time spent consulting on tooling, new features, etc, and communicating them out to you, as well as collecting and sharing feedback to the product teams).

Is vaguely interesting

forest distrusts StackExchange

07:23

With emphasis on "vague"?

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange lol

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

oh sorry, @Luuklag ignore my previous ping, at least Anita isn't working for SE anymore indeed, most likely Lisa too.

Journeyman Geek

Now, I make it a hobby to try to work out what SE is doing

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

> Product Line ManagerProduct Line Manager
> Aura · Full-timeAura · Full-time
> Mar 2022 - Present · 1 mo

forest distrusts StackExchange

When it comes to people who aren't working here anymore, I think whatsherface's profile still says she works for SE.

Journeyman Geek

07:24

so basically this means 1) Organic Data analytics capability in SE

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

At least she keeps her LinkedIn up to date...

Journeyman Geek

So that vaguely covers some of what Shog was doing

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Hope they didn't leave on bad terms.

forest distrusts StackExchange

"This message cannot be edited before reaching the server" woah

Never saw that error before.

Journeyman Geek

Having a collectives CM is kinda hmm, but liason work also covers basically what Jon was doing at the back end of his time here

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

07:25

@forestdistrustsStackExchange huh? Which? Where?

Journeyman Geek

also a cynic might say its badly needed

@forestdistrustsStackExchange happens if you edit 'too fast'

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Tried to submit AJAX edit of a post with Official Post lock? @forest

forest distrusts StackExchange

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar I was editing a post and pressed submit, and that popped up.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

weird

forest distrusts StackExchange

Official Post lock?

@JourneymanGeek ah

Journeyman Geek

07:26

@forestdistrustsStackExchange basically no one but staff can edit

forest distrusts StackExchange

Oh. Nah, I don't think SE has great security, but I don't think it's so bad that I could edit an official post just by bypassing client-side restrictions. :P

Journeyman Geek

For example meta.stackexchange.com/q/376743/135565

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

user image

forest distrusts StackExchange

Oh. No the error happened here in chat.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

Trying to edit normally gives "post is locked" but didn't try to bypass it and see the actual response from the server.

forest distrusts StackExchange

07:28

Oh. Lemme check that and see what the error response is.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

watching @forest hack the lock

forest distrusts StackExchange

Lol if it's so insecure that the edit goes through, I'll be laughing all the way to my next suspension.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

:P

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar I still think its not a huge priority for most to edit their SE profiles, and its a very sticky thing unless there's a real risk of confusion

forest distrusts StackExchange

Interestingly, it seems to be a 404 error?

Where's the "fixed font" option?

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

07:33

@JourneymanGeek well it's fake info now. ;)

But meh, don't care enough to really do something, e.g. ask CM to edit/reset.

Think a CM did edit/reset Shog's profile, right?

forest distrusts StackExchange

Not a priority to edit profiles? Why not?

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange not important enough

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh if you're the person who left?

forest distrusts StackExchange

I mean... Almost all of us have edited profiles.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange huh, without text? So how the client side know it's locked?

forest distrusts StackExchange

07:34

oh

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah lol ;)

@forestdistrustsStackExchange what do you mean? What context?

forest distrusts StackExchange

meta.stackexchange.com/posts/376743/edit-inline?_=1648538910803

It's that which gives the 404. But I can't post the whole "show as curl" options.

curl 'https://meta.stackexchange.com/posts/376743/edit-inline?_=1648538910803' -H 'User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0' -H 'Accept: text/html, */*; q=0.01' -H 'Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.5'
--compressed -H 'Referer: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/376743/…; -H 'X-Requested-With: XMLHttpRequest' -H 'Connection: keep-alive' -H 'Cookie: [REDACTED] -H 'Sec-Fetch-Dest: empty' -H 'Sec-Fetch-Mode: cors' -H 'Sec-Fetch-Site: same-origin' -H 'TE: trailers'

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh, no, what I meant is directly sending POST request with the edit, bypassing any client side restrictions.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar That is bypassing client side restrictions, at least to load the editor. I'll try bypassing that too.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

It can be 404 to GET request but different for POST request.

forest distrusts StackExchange

07:37

Right.

What's meta.stackexchange.com/posts/validate-body?

It seems it sends the post twice, first to validate something?

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange dunno, never saw it.

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah, might be, there's some sense in it. First check if the post is even valid, and if not, don't actually try to save it.

e.g. empty or too long post.

forest distrusts StackExchange

And then it gives some sort of UUID which is used in the URL of the POST.

E.g. meta.stackexchange.com/posts/376773/edit-submit/… for submitting the edit to some random question with -21.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

hehe sounds like fun reverse engineering SE code. ;)

If only it was all open source.....

:D

forest distrusts StackExchange

lel

The stuff I'm looking at is open (it's the web stuff after all). I'm just crap at web stuff. :P

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@forestdistrustsStackExchange well I just use jQuery via Chrome dev tools lol

forest distrusts StackExchange

07:42

Maybe it's x-request-guid: 2a24b46a-62ea-4e0f-ab80-4718a2ee079a.

Me too. Except Firefox here.

Haha the post request gave me 200 OK even though nothing went through.

Whoops, I think it logged me out.

That was weird.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

08:30

@forestdistrustsStackExchange and one year suspension? ;)

forest distrusts StackExchange

Lol thankfully not.

If the thing auto-suspended me for an invalid POST request, I'd be pretty pissed, ngl.

forest distrusts StackExchange

08:47

aki ♦, 🇯🇵

1 2 4 7

How is this user a mod with 1 rep?

Mod on only one site, but also staff.

He's clearly written posts:

34

Q: 祝🌸スタック・オーバーフロー公開7周年をむかえ正式版へ

コミュニティのみなさんに大切なお知らせがあります。このたびスタック・オーバーフローはベータ版を晴れて卒業し、本日2021年12月16日より正式版として提供されることになりました。この卒業をみなさんにお伝えできることを本当に嬉しく思います。今から7年前、スタック・オーバーフローはパブリックベータ版として公開されました。コミュニティがこのように成長し、質の高い有益なライブラリの作成を続けることができたのはなぜか。それはオンラインの向こう側で毎日コツコツと何らかのアクションをとってくださったプログラマーのみなさんの存在があったからです。今回の卒業はひとえにみなさんの日々の活動のおかげです...

討議交流会

Luuklag

@forestdistrustsStackExchange well there is your answer

forest distrusts StackExchange

@Luuklag Hm? Someone with multiple positive posts should have rep.

It's not like he's just staff and doesn't actually post.

Luuklag

@forestdistrustsStackExchange those are all meta posts

forest distrusts StackExchange

Ooooh

I keep forgetting meta doesn't award points. I'm too used to MSE.

Sonic the Save Ukraine-hog

09:24

@forestdistrustsStackExchange She

Journeyman Geek

09:41

@JNat stackexchange.com/users/24716166/workman-jsc One more spammer

SPArcheon

Given the current situation I don't expect April Fool to be a thing this year and maybe that is for the better.

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange If memory serves, basically they got her to cover that site after Jmac (not @JNat) was downsized, and the whole experiment of having language specific CMs abandoned

SPArcheon

But since this joke was made in another room... I will share it here too just in case I guessed right.

SE April Fool prevision: NTF on questions.

Journeyman Geek

NFT?

DavidPostill

10:14

@JourneymanGeek Do keep up :)

Non-fungible token

A non-fungible token (NFT) is a non-interchangeable unit of data stored on a blockchain, a form of digital ledger, that can be sold and traded. Types of NFT data units may be associated with digital files such as photos, videos, and audio. Because each token is uniquely identifiable, NFTs differ from blockchain cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin. NFT ledgers claim to provide a public certificate of authenticity or proof of ownership, but the legal rights conveyed by an NFT can be uncertain. NFTs do not restrict the sharing or copying of the underlying digital files, do not necessarily convey the...

Journeyman Geek

@DavidPostill I know what it is. Look closer :D

DavidPostill

Ah :/

Journeyman Geek

(know it? By which I mean HATE IT ALMOST AS MUCH AS I HATE CRYPTOCURRENCY MADNESS)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

10:32

@SPArcheon count on SE to do it anyway.

@JourneymanGeek sell the right to own your question as NFT

Actually neat April Fools prank.

@JourneymanGeek of course, it's one titanic scam.

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

11:05

OK, made mockup to make it easier for SE. ;)

user image

Tinkeringbell

Did the font just change?!

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Tinkeringbell what font? Where?

Tinkeringbell

Thé font, everywhere :P

Comments look different to me now, that's the most noticeable I think ;)

Maybe it's just extra whitespace though

Blegh. I only have 1 tab open so it's not like I can compare old and new tabs XD

Aaand nevermind... I accidentally zoomed. XD

2

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

11:39

@Tinkeringbell hehe

Feeds

11:50

stackoverflow.blog/2022/03/29/…

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar pretty sure they already made the whole thing, right @Catija?

JNat

@JourneymanGeek gone

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

12:08

@SPArcheon can always change.... ;)

for-the-love-of-soupless

Hello! I want to ask if you know that flowchart for posts like, if it reaches a particular score, it's on the low quality queue?

I saw it here in Meta before, and now it's gone. It exists, but only in my mind

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@for-the-love-of-soupless huh?

You'll have to be more clear.... at least for my slow mind...

for-the-love-of-soupless

the flowchart for posts. say it was a first answer. then, it goes to the first answers queue.

i don't know how to describe it any further. just a good ol' flowchart

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

No idea sorry

Tinkeringbell

@for-the-love-of-soupless i.sstatic.net/1PxBE.png ?

Entire post is at meta.stackexchange.com/a/300659/369802

for-the-love-of-soupless

12:12

Yes, that's it! Thank you so much

Tinkeringbell

no problem :)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

hehe, only the legendary bluefeet could do such things.... :D

for-the-love-of-soupless

hmm. tinkering bell sent an image for the love of soupless.

Tinkeringbell

Oh no, there isn't any love involved.

Also my username doesn't have whitespace :)

for-the-love-of-soupless

wait. you're right! forgot that one. also, it's incorrect since it should be for-the-love-of-soupless which is a noun

@Tinkeringbell last one for now. is there one for flagging? something like a tree diagram of some sort?

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

12:17

@Tinkeringbell could be worse, Tin kering bell.

:D

@Tinkeringbell cold heart! ;)

(my favorite song these days, see avatar!)

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardSaysNoMoreWar Wooden heart. Perfect little Dutch song ;)

@for-the-love-of-soupless Don't think there is one for flagging, I found one for close-voting (which can be done through flags as well?)

15

A: Close reasons cheat sheet

Here is an attempt at a flow chart discussed in chat here:

for-the-love-of-soupless

@Tinkeringbell I wish I had one

Tinkeringbell

For flags, there's this post: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/89707/… but it doesn't have a graph/chart

for-the-love-of-soupless

Thanks for the posts!

@Tinkeringbell Thanks, though I can't vote to close posts though

i forgot, it should be yet

Catija

13:03

@SPArcheon Made what thing?

Tinkeringbell

13:28

@Catija Since they seem to be sleeping.. the April Fools' joke ;-)

Catija

Ah. No, we specifically avoided doing an NFT joke. It... probably would have made a lot of people suuuuuuper angry.

Tinkeringbell

But there is going to be a joke?!

Can't wait to see what is then. I hope for a return of the 90s design XD

Catija

13:43

There is. I think it'll be SO only again, unfortunately. :sigh:

Tinkeringbell

I'll go make sure there's an angry MSE post at the ready then ;-)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

@Catija or, like the copy&paste button, turns out to be something people would actually want... ;)

Tinkeringbell

Should make MSE mod life slightly easier if April Fools' jokes are limited to SO though. Just migrate everything to MSO!

Catija

We don't want to sell NFTs.

Tinkeringbell

In which case, having an April Fools' joke like NFTs that upsets lots of people... will be 'not my problem'... so I'd say keep it in mind for next year, SO only, at least ;-)

Shadow Wizard Says No More War

13:47

@Catija when every item will be sold for $1000000 things might be different.. and sadly that's what going to happen at this rate, lol. The world gone crazy.

3 hours later…

Meta Andrew T.

16:31

I just posted my first ~~post~~ comment(?) on Reddit and looks like I got 1 ~~rep~~ karma just by posting only

rene

@MetaAndrewT. that is very welcoming ....

→ 60 messages moved to Chimney

5 hours later…

forest distrusts StackExchange

21:34

@SonictheSaveUkraine-hog Whoops.

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