Announcement & Backstory: Avatar change on MSE

@Rob ?

@AnnZen !

Happy hour!?

@MetaAndrewT. What do users do in happy hour?

Some have a drink, a few others use all their downvote to roomba bad questions...

sounds lonely for "happy hour"

Then. We take Berlin.

Or maybe cheddar.

@JourneymanGeek Have you read or seen "the boy in the striped pajamas"?

No

→ 33 messages moved to Chimney

@RobertColumbia if you're a pirate, you need a parrot.

@JourneymanGeek no Manhattan?

@MetaAndrewT. you missed it by few hours

@AnnZen trying to understand @Rob's messages is always a mental challenge. ;)

5 pings. Not bad.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Not that difficult:

Really no different than describing this as a mental challenge, seems simple enough to me:

> See the Holocaust trivialized, glossed over, kitsched up, commercially exploited and hijacked for a tragedy about a Nazi family. Better yet and in all sincerity: don’t.

Doesn't make me really love it much

Seen Jojo Rabbit? Same stuff but with Taika's unique touch.

I personally don't like that British pretty boy. Always pretentious.

And I think I've talked about these movies before. One movie, one Schindler's list, is enough if you want to feel the horrors of the holocaust.

Everything else is finger-pointing: Oh look at these evil people from an ancient time doing evil things, and never a second look at ourselves.

It's pointless.

@M.A.R. I think that's doing these films a little short... Especially as you don't need a 'movie' when there's this: imdb.com/title/tt0247568 " the official documentary report compiled from over 80,000 feet of film shot by Allied military photographers in the German concentration camps immediately after liberation."

@M.A.R. My fingers are full of points. Are yours?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask yeah, it was a busy weekend...

@Tinkeringbell Perhaps. I'm just sick of WWII being a convenient topic to get 'fake' acclaims and positive reviews. It's like your acting career going down? No worries, just do a WWII movie.

Eh, I guess I'm not enough of a movie critic to accurately answer that...

Some of them are excellent character studies, horrifying, or illuminating. But the evil is always distant and something you can't relate to, like something you can't possibly become

I know Schindler's List!.... or to be exact, only its theme song...

While better movies that start from almost scratch, better show how this guy can go evil and how easy it is to be doing something bad in the name of 'greater good' or something

Didn't Soheil paper spam some site a while ago?

Maybe meta.SE, even

This is embarrassing, but where's MS search? Can't seem to find it

@Tinkeringbell And I am? Pwah

@M.A.R. No spam... :)

@M.A.R. You're at least sounding like one :)

metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/245350

Kisses own memory

Yuck, tastes like motor oil

@Tinkeringbell The Dickensian fantasy is merely a camouflage for the writer's disturbing yet embellished way of thinking long long distances ahead of his contemporaries; as impeccably compelling an homage as debonair.

Sips expensive tea

Ah yes... a case of 'why are the curtains blue'

INDEEEEEEED.

@M.A.R. did you deed?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Hah, FIRST, we take manhattan

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Outdid

Looking at rev4 of this question, I'm assuming something got purged from history which may or may not be related to the user being suspended?

Either that or there was really nothing revised.

@Mast considering the or. Yes

to something

Looking at it, whatever it it was the right choice :D

Don't doubt that, just making sure I don't point a lot of people at a bug that's not a bug.

Thanks @Journeyman

Most likely a name was redacted. If that's the case, rightfully so.

@JourneymanGeek but it's far from Berlin.

@MetaAndrewT. sounds painful.

(I have no idea what a redaction looks from the user end)

@MetaAndrewT. for you, perhaps... ;)

@JourneymanGeek Like the same data on both sides.

@JourneymanGeek we just see nothing, no trace that whatever was redacted ever existed.

ah

but incremented/missing rev numbers?

There's a revision, with a mod name, but nothing actually seems modified.

@JourneymanGeek Yes, it's on rev 4 on our side.

ah

That's probably the one tampered with.

I think I answered what you needed to know. :D

There is, in markdown diff.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask I see coloured background, but no actual changes.

So the redaction probably had something to do with text in the vicinity of that text, but apart from that...

@Rob no challenge there. ;)

There is such a thing as: "... moderator to make a null edit ...".

@Rob Considering the revision description and the rest of the history going on, I think it could be the same kind of tool but a different purpose.

✔️

Is it that there is no way to logically explain to a mod their mistake?

This suspension is defaming my name.

I receive a mail harassing me about being a loser.

:/ I'm sorry to hear that. I still don't think SE/SO can help much, as they don't moderate e-mail.

Can I tell the mod their mstake?

If you haven't used your mod-message reply yet, yes, you can.

Apparently, the message wasn't detailed enough.

Well if you got a reply asking for more details, you can provide them.

If not, just sit out the seven days and don't do whatever you did afterwards again.

I don't see how innocent people will have to suffer from the moderators mistakes like that.

At this point though, all I have is a he-said-she-said: You're saying the moderator made a mistake and you're suffering because of it vs. the moderator that suspended you based on whatever that moderator saw...

@AnnZen eh

I'm not really keen on arguing about this any further. I've given whatever advise I had to give: reply to the moderator message, you can try to appeal using contact-us which you've apparently also already done, so all I can advise now is to wait out the other 5 days and not waste your time/energy.

Mods can make mistakes but with things like voting fraud, there's also automated systems in place

So its pretty hard to make a mistake unless you happened to "accidentally" vote for the same person a lot of times

@Tinkeringbell I strongly urge all of you to do this in a more private venue.

which is exactly what its designed to do

Going head to head against mod(s) never end well. Their head is made of diamond, you just can't beat that, and only injure yourself.

If I get a chance to point out their mistake, they might realize what they did was wrong.

@JourneymanGeek Also, I have not "accidentally" voted for anyone.

@AnnZen You get a chance with the mod message reply. Else, the contact us link, but the CMs are busy.

@Mast :) I'm all for getting back to my puzzle book and murder documentaries ;)

That private enough?

but we hear people claim we made mistakes every time this happens, even when its really obvious, even from the limited tools we have

@AnnZen Well we've pointed out where your chances lie.

@Tinkeringbell If you take the conversation with you, that might kill the suspense.

@AnnZen someone using your IP did, there were cases of IRL friends using the computer of users, of siblings, etc. We can't know.

@Mast Yeah. This conversation is just going round in circles. @JourneymanGeek I've already said as much, just scroll up ;)

I was finishing it up, until everyone else came along XD

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Absolutely not. I know that person. They didn't touch my account.

help pile!

uhh,

The moderator assumed that a bounty they started was for me to answer, but I had no intent to do so.

Yeah, I think I'm not seeing anything constructive coming out of this. I'm out.

@AnnZen that was just an example. Anyway, no way to prove anything, and that's the problem.

The mod can.

Mod can only see limited voting patterns, e.g. votes from several accounts made from same source. They can't know who actually clicked the vote buttons.

I might be okay with letting my account sleep for a while, but I can't accept that label on my account. No way.

@Tinkeringbell I told you, I've used up the mod message, but I left out the details.

@AnnZen and there's literally nothing we can do

and we're going around in circles

@AnnZen And I told you what other steps you could take. Honestly, I'm not sure what was unclear in that or what more you're expecting of me.

If its one of the other sites either of us mod, sure, we can take a look

I guess I didn't expect much. I want to know, when someone successfully appeals, does the system do anything to clear the victim's name?

If you get unsuspended, no one but a mod will ever be able to see you were suspended.

For mods, that's still there because suspensions escalate and if you do the same thing again, we need to know so we can suspend for longer.

Everyone can see I'm suspended, currently.

why ???? kthxbai

@Tinkeringbell That doesn't mean anything, as I won't violate any rules.

Then no mod will have any reason to look at your profile and see if you were suspended before.

@M.A.R. hi

Hi there

@Tinkeringbell You don't seem to understand that people seeing me suspended right now is a big issue. Logically, they'd think I've violated the rules to gain rep.

@Ann I hope you do realize that most "zomg why me suspend! I'm innocent as an angel" come from people that are unmistakably guilty of something. So if you want to make a case for yourself, the evidence better be damning.

@AnnZen And they'd forget as soon as you're no longer suspended. You're overestimating how much people remember.

@AnnZen There's a saying in Dutch: Burn your ass and you'll have to sit on blisters.

But I guess the very purpose of the box of shame is . . . to shame the one in it.

If you really, really don't want this, try to separate as much social media as you can from your account for a while.

@Tinkeringbell no profile edits, remember?

@Tinkeringbell "If you eat honeydew you gotta chug up the shaking afterwards" is ours

@AnnZen You can edit your profile on MSE then copy it to all communities.

The shaking as in if you eat something like that in cold weather, I guess

@AnnZen You can edit the profile on another site and push the changes to all sites

@M.A.R. Ours is definitely more direct ;)

Can't argue with asses on the fire

But ours is about eating

Stupid connection

Can't argue with asses. Period.

You can but it involves countermeasures

@Mast even an ass isn't stupid enough to stumble over the same stone twice ;)

lol

Is there any rule against mentioning our suspension in our profile?

haha

@AnnZen I've seen some pretty offensive remarks in user profiles, so, you'll probably be fine as long as you don't attack people.

Hah, props for being creative

@AnnZen It's basically already on top of your profile. The only things you need to consider is that that doesn't automatically disappear, that you're not getting to be offensive to the moderator team on whatever site...

@Mast I'm not that kind of person ;)

And that if you add it, it's now visible on more than 1 profile.

@AnnZen Just saying, wouldn't want you to get a suspension on top of your suspension making matters worse.

@AnnZen Honestly, just sit it through and don't mention it again. "I wasn't rightfully suspended, here's why" will have two dozen people rolling their eyes for one that checks out your evidence.

@Tinkeringbell Heh, yes, that would be a good reason not to do it.

@M.A.R. Absolutely.

.

Firmly shakes hands

Doesn't let go

I hope you'd disinfected your hand beforehand

Maybe if we try shaking harder we'll squish the virus

@Tinkeringbell Why would one want that?

My rep looks weird. Did it use to look like that.

Lol serial downvote

let us know tomorrow if the script doesn't get it ;)

Whose feathers did I ruffle? There only one member of avian species here. Squints

@Tinkeringbell Meh just three downvotes. To evade detection probably. The number looks cooler now with three 7's anyway

I get stray downvotes at times, but they tend to be reverted automatically or not be of any significance.

Does make my rep-screen look odd though, all negative scoring values as most recent.

But that's because I don't rep much here.

@M.A.R. I do know enough to probably evade the auto reversal, yes :P

More annoying is the ninja mosquitos that bit my arm thrice

Maybe they're working for the serial downvoter

Hmm, this could be implemented to award the right people

But the current atmosphere would probably only reward SE staff :p

@Mast Can you get the SO mod on the phone for me?

@Tinkeringbell I'd whisper it but it should be obvious that three is often safe, a fourth might trigger something.

I know :P

@AnnZen Isn't this an invasion of privacy?

Like the mosquitos. Ugh

@M.A.R. What do you mean?

@M.A.R. Citronella and Lavender Essential Oil will deter mosquitoes

Citro who

@M.A.R. I didn't mean an actual phone.

@M.A.R. oils4life.co.uk/Learning-Zone/Essential-Oil-Profiles/…

@M.A.R. Meh. I wouldn't make badges just because while right now the right people may be awarded, once you set it as a goal, it might not turn out very well.

@DavidPostill Oh! That might explain...

@AnnZen No.

> Citronella is naturally occurring oil that repels insects. ... An article in the Malaria Journal from 2011 says that people have been using plants to drive away mosquitoes as far back as the Greeks and Romans, and citronella is now “one of the most widely used natural repellents on the market.”

@AnnZen Suspensions are best discussed only privately, and rarely so, because both sides would need to have an open mind. If you look around chats, you might run into a mod on SO chatrooms, but to discuss it then and there might not bode well. You can invite them to make a private chat and allow you to join it if they'd like, and if they approve, you'd get your conversation.

I'd warn you though, they're often not handed lightly. Very few mistakes were made, but what I know from the evidence is it's often rather strong.

As compared to Deet, which is a nasty chemical, that amongst other things dissolves plastic (as I found out when wearing a Deet impregnated wristband next to a Swatch)

Well I'm neither growing Citro nor Nella in the backyard

Mostly because we don't have a backyard

You're not growing Deet either.

I'd also keep an eye on Deet and see if he does anything, no worries

Deet dissolves plastic? Holy crap

Like, super acid holy crap

Oh, don't get me started on Teflon.

> The EPA stresses that DEET is perfectly safe when used in accordance with the directions on the label. Incorrect application can lead to health issues such as skin irritation, disorientation, dizziness and, in extreme cases, seizures or death [source: ATSDR]. You hear rumors that DEET causes cancer.

WHERE'S THE LABEL WHERE'S THE LABEL

> extreme cases, seizures or death

> DEET is an effective solvent,[7] and may dissolve some watch crystals,[4] plastics, rayon, spandex, other synthetic fabrics, and painted or varnished surfaces including nail polish. It also may act as a plasticizer by remaining inside some formerly hard plastics, leaving them softened and more flexible.

Death is fairly extreme, yes.

Meh, drinking water can also lead to death in extreme cases

So, if you're ever short on nail polish remover, see if you have some DEET lying around ;)

Back when I was making meth with Walt we had this bottle

Well it ruined my watch so I'm not having it anywhere near my skin.

Did I say too much

@Mast AFAIK not teflon, but C8, does the bad things, right?

What is the proper way to privately invite someone to chat?

Swims in Deet and teflon, according to the label

@AnnZen There is none, you can't make private chat rooms.

@AnnZen There are "mod-only" rooms, only available to mods. The mod would have to make one if they accept your request to talk.

@M.A.R. No, Telfon (PTFE) is pretty bad as well.

@M.A.R. So one invites a mod to a public chat, and ask them to create a private room?

C8 might be worse, doesn't make Teflon good.

@AnnZen That could work.

@AnnZen No, find a mod in a public chat

> While the health effects of overheated Teflon may be serious, using common-sense cooking practices will help you avoid exposure. Summary: Above 570°F (300°C), Teflon coatings may begin to break down, releasing toxic fumes into the air. These fumes can cause temporary, flu-like symptoms known as polymer fume fever.

@M.A.R. too late

@M.A.R. Granulated teflon is the problem, when it mixes with your food because it's no longer sticking to your no-stick pan.

Oh phew. I always put a thermocouple while cooking to make sure it doesn't pass 300 degrees

lol

@CodyGray hi, can we have a chat in private?

Dishwasher and normal wear will tear down your Teflon over time.

I don't really do private chats.

Licks teflon to clean it

Well, unless you want to pay me a consulting fee.

@CodyGray Know of one somewhere?

@CodyGray Hi Cody, don't forget to scroll up for the responses by other mods.

Although the same is probably true for many more innocuous things, like frozen PET bottles?

@CodyGray I can offer a hand of M&Ms?

Uh, what did I step into?

@Tinkeringbell Me and who?

Mast?

@CodyGray Saturday Tavern. Be sure to wear old shoes when you step in ;)

That would be M&M, but we probably won't fit in her hand.

@M.A.R. Don't eat frozen PET bottles either.

Not the Teflon and PET conversation. That's all 100% true. I'm not confused by that. I'm just wondering why I need to go read up to see what other mods think... about what...

@CodyGray Nothing serious, we're discussing how Teflon kills you. Ann wants to constructively discuss her suspension on SO, as she believes a mistake was made. To accept the invitation to discuss it is entirely up to you.

@CodyGray Oh. Probably so you don't waste more time ;) chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8471231#8471231 is a good starting point ;)

@Mast Bites fingernails

@M.A.R. There's other chemicals for that!

OK. Bites deet

@Tinkeringbell Acetone. Acetone solves everything.

I hope they're not causing cancer because I think I bit my way to two whole bottles of that stuff when I was a kid.

No worse. They're herbal.

I can't imagine my mom taking care of me that badly!

Plants are bitter. They're literally shouting for you not to eat them. Yet we persist.

@Tinkeringbell Wisdom comes with age. That's why we should listen to our gramps and grannies before they go senile.

Depends on if you're talking about fruits or vegetables.

Even hamburgers are carcinogenic.

Look up acrylamide

@M.A.R. Are they baked on Teflon?

No they're fried too much

Let's go eat bamboos

> More pathological forms of nails biting are considered an impulse control disorder in the DSM-IV-R and are classified under obsessive-compulsive and related disorders in the DSM-5.

@Mast :) I'll keep that in mind if I can go visit mine next week :)

So... I feel like we've had this conversation before in another chat room on SO's chat server. Probably SOCVR. As was stated there, the typical way to protest a suspension is to reply to the moderator message that you were sent announcing the suspension.

However, generally, mods (at least SO mods) don't entertain lame excuses like "it's my brother's account" or "my dog did it", because we've heard them all before zillions of times and they just strain credibility. We're willing to listen and reevaluate if you can offer some substantive proof, but mere protestations tend to fall on deaf ears. And even more so if they're not carefully presented.

I also explained previously that, if you are not satisfied with the moderator team's handling of something, you can go over the moderators' heads to the Stack Exchange staff. I specifically linked stackoverflow.com/contact, which is how you would start the process. Staff can overrule moderator decisions if they are convinced that we made a mistake.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what else there is to say, nor what it would accomplish to discuss this any further.

Who says wisdom comes with age. I mean look at me.

Oh. Mine definitely doesn't.

Aristotle pose, finger pointing upwards, other hand strokes beard

@DavidPostill Under DSM-V everyone is mental.

:( I want a beard too :(

@M.A.R. Gnome Ann is born wise

@CodyGray The point is, there is no rule against having multiple accounts sharing the same IP, as long as they don't artificially inflate other's rep.

@JohnDvorak She definitely wasn't. She went up against the witch king of AngMAR.

And almost died.

At least in the books.

@CodyGray We did no voting whatsoever on each other's accounts.

@AnnZen The general rule is that you shouldn't be doing something with socks that you couldn't do with one account. That includes but is not limited to voting. (just FYI, I have no knowledge of your specific case)

@AnnZen This . . . does not say anything. It's not evidence.

@AnnZen I'm really going to insist at this point this isn't the appropriate forum for this

@Rubiksmoose We didn't. What made the mod think we did?

@JourneymanGeek Of course not. It's a chat room :P

There are quite a few rules regarding the operation of multiple accounts, and they do go beyond merely voting. As surely others will manage to mash out before I get done typing this, the general rule is that you are allowed to have multiple accounts if and only if they do not interact with each other. The canonical FAQ is here (which...I'm sure an MSE mod could/did point you to).

> (just FYI, I have no knowledge of your specific case)

I'd listen to @Journey. He went to this temple and is now seeing into the future, Shaolin style

@AnnZen Stats I'd think.

@CodyGray That was not my account.

Look, I told you "I didn't do it" wouldn't help your case

Personally, I'm more on the Jeff Atwood side of things: ["Though it is generally discouraged [to have multiple accounts], as what legitimate reason would you need for multiple accounts? Idle hands are the devil's playground, etc etc."](meta.stackexchange.com/a/35607)

@CodyGray We could've, but the validity of sockpuppets hadn't come up yet, just the how to complain parts.

Well, hold on here. Somehow, I got selected as the delegate or representative of Stack Overflow moderators, but I'm not the only person who pokes buttons on that site.

@AnnZen We just had a moderator tell us that this conversation isn't appropriate here, how about we heed that?

So accusing me specifically is not really welcome.

@CodyGray Well obviously election to SO mod immediately connects you to the borg hivemind right?