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3:00 PM
Maybe in 6-8 weeks... :D
I'm going to assume that now that's he's actually talking to the community, in some fashioned, he's settled in. Then comes.. "now what?"
I'm just going to pretend I'm inserting the gif of that guy pulling up a chair to watch
dont know, I wouldnt expect too much
Re "...smaller sites...": Not referring to the second-largest? — Peter Mortensen 14 hours ago
.... I forget apparently SU's the second biggest ....
I was going to say "When did that happen"
@Magisch I'm not
Is setting up a chat room to discuss what management of SE are doing a thing thats in the rules? Is it a thing that is (being) done?
@JourneymanGeek It's either SU or AU or a Math one, depending on metric used, I think.
3:06 PM
@terdon While I'm a SU mod, I think if anyone ever listens to me, I can't just speak as a SU mod ._.
Is dissent a thing?
@Crowie Done right, sure. "Be Nice" still counts.
@JourneymanGeek cool thanks. I'll have a look in the search bar. Great tip :)
@JourneymanGeek Huh, I thought AU was second in something, but I can't see it. It's always under SU.
If you haven't noticed, lots of folks disagree with the direction SE's taken
@terdon :D
3:10 PM
@JourneymanGeek no I noticed. I just wanted to observe and consider what is being codified formally on site. I have noticed and am slightly across the matter. Just thinking about it a bit more.... The ribbon from the CEO made me think..
@JourneymanGeek e.g. chatrooms
@JourneymanGeek I hereby declare that it was (*) just a coincidence that I knitted the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come
I imagine it could get a bit... noisey... with dissent. Not that in itself is a bad thing, power to the people
@Crowie Chatrooms are kinda for the most hardcore of hardcore users. MSO and MSE's great places to catch up
@Crowie it does
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, but I was. And I failed miserably!
(*) not
3:11 PM
@terdon I could have sworn it was too!
I got pinged.... but I don't think the ping was for me?
@JourneymanGeek Maybe it had been at some point and the stats changed.
@ColeValleyGirl it was not. I messed up.
Sorry about that
@terdon Not always... it's second in spam :)
@Crowie Even dissent needs a little direction.
3:13 PM
@ArtOfCode Ha! I knew there was something we excelled at over at AU!
@JourneymanGeek And woke me up... which is probably a good thing. I'm going word-blind staring at rubbish dpcumentation and trying to work out what the author meant to say.
Eat your heart out, @JourneymanGeek!
hey art
will you still be running charcoal?
It brings a tear to my eye to consider SE being another area of life where... *shrugs... whats new. Good luck to the staff. Read shog9's twitter post. Any other highlights to recommend?
3:13 PM
@terdon I deign to grant you that :D
@ColeValleyGirl even then, it should be intentional :D
to the extent I do already, yes - Makyen does most of the day-to-day, I just hold most of the keys and things and rubber-stamp decisions
steals the rubber stamp, replaces it with rubber duck
@JourneymanGeek every area of life benefits from moderation. Win Wins...
3:14 PM
I can rubber-duck decisions too...
how's it going in general
you intending to make codidact your full time job or is this parallel to uni?
@Shadow9 keeps you from getting complacent too.
@Magisch I'm pondering spending the next break trying to shift all the commands I need to control my router to a different account that can only run those with sudo
oh, wonderful. The Animal Crossing mobile game is apparently starting to contact the winners of the fabled prize for the "pay us fast for the monthly subscription and you may win free swag" contest
(I got sucked into a rabbit hole)
3:20 PM
How long has it been since our names are coded? (colors/italics) I literally just noticed that
@curious Blue is mod, italics is RO
It has always been like that
italics for RO has been, well since you've been an RO
@JourneymanGeek Yes I figured out the code but had never noticed the actual formatting
I know right! Shame on me
3:22 PM
You've been a mod longer than you have been an RO
Unlike me.
(but I became an RO automatically.)
see picture @Tinkeringbell - the prize was a paper bag (picture courtesy of reddit)
what is all this mod business you all talk about
In my defense, I'm here on mobile a lot so it's probably just not displaying the same x)
finds a hole to hide in
@curious I often pop chat into a sidebar (web snippet) on vivaldi which is mobile mode
Im always keen to improve my writing. Now, with regard the CEO banner.... why did I have to read I'm guessing several hundred words before I hit the apology? Again, I need to improve my writing but isn't that burying the key information a little deep?
3:25 PM
.... I might have missed a few chat flags that way
@BlueSoul o.0
for reference....
@Crowie I was looking for a mention of the community, like at all, and it took ages to reach the point where he was talking about us
@Tinkeringbell it is supposed to look like the in-game item
but... it is still very lame.
Etsy sells 10 for about 4$... and it already feels overpriced.
It was like, uhu, okay, company speak, company speak, bla bla, interesting for shareholders, not me, shame there's nothing about us... And then came the community, it felt more like an afterthought and din't leave the impression he probably wanted to make
3:28 PM
@Tschallacka apparently he's commenting on many of the MSO answers...
which is an improvement
If he had started with us, the community the entire message in that blog would have been different I think.
@Tschallacka I mean..... first paragraph as a guide. Ok, the tech industry is big. Yep thats a point. SE is a part of technology. Got ya, wait... five large paragraphs later.... oh yep, it is about the community.

Yeh man... thats some downvoting I'm-gonna-edit-this-question to put the key information at the top shizz
@Crowie eh
in situations like this, leave it alone :D
@JourneymanGeek you could put that on my career's tombstone
@Shadow9 Hmm. Codidact. I wish them well, but am unwilling to commmit any effort (development, or in due course questions and answers and/or moderation) until I understand their financial model further. I would be well unhappy if I put in a lot of effort and they folded (as I fear they might -- more than I fear the smaller sites being shut down here.)
Expert Exchange charged for answers -- we all know how well that was received, and Codidact don't intend to repeat that failure.

Wikipedia live on donations... Does Codidact have deep enough pockets to survive until they have the necessary momentum/recognition to get the donations they need to fund their infrastructure and the associated support team, plus professional community managers. I fear not, especially as their USP seems to be 'we're not Stackexchange'
StackExchange are trying to fund public Q&A by selling product (Teams, Jobs) and adverts. In this century, I suspect that's the only route to commercial viability, although I'd love to be proved wrong.

If anyone can envisage a successful model for a competitor site, I'd love to hear about it.
3:32 PM
@Tschallacka I mean... write for your target audience.... what is the thinking.... where is the writing skill on a writing based site?
@Tinkeringbell wait - my bad. Seems that the bag was only assumed to be paper made because Nintendo smartly didn't post any other picture at the time.
Actually it is not.
Where is PR/comms on this post?
^ @Tinkeringbell it is actually fabric painted to look like paper.
3:33 PM
@BlueSoul That's a little better :)
someone needs a reprimand
All of StackExchange is a tiny dot and StackOverflow a bigger dot on the Internet Map.
Looks like it's also the 'special' kind of fabric, that insulates a little.
@Tinkeringbell yep. One can use it for lunch at least
@JourneymanGeek I'm a serial editor... no post is beyond attempt
3:36 PM
@Crowie Well, the target audience is of course shareholders. I would envisage that some shareholders may be getting a bit anxious with the community outrage. And then the CEO get's heat from that, and this is then him being forced to act on that, even though a CEO typically doesn't care that much. So what we get now is typical CEO "detached from the real world" thinking put out in words(in my opinion). CEO's typically have careers
that they stick around somewhere 3 years and then move on to greener pastures. So investment in Company X isn't that much. It's more about gathering good stats so you can say I improved shareholder value By x at company Y, etc... so you get a better pay at the next gig
I mean, when do you ever see a CEO in a newspaper or making a statement on something personally. Only when the shit has hit the fan. Or it's an advertisement
So that he's reaching out personally can be a signal, especially the text he wrote and how he wrote it.
First rule of business: The CEO and HR rarely care personally. They want the business to continue and the profits to rise. Anything else is mostly an annoyance that should be dealt with quickly and severely
I might be a bit too cynical though.
a bit ..
@Tschallacka I'm always disappointed when a CEO doesn't at least put a veneer of caring on. Just putting my shareholders hat on like, 'don't make a parody of your job mate - at least pretend youre fixing the problem, talking to the community, not talking to us"
@Tschallacka we've all invested a lot of time in this capitalist system..... the cynicism is bound to arise.
@Crowie Basic human contact mostly goes out the window for those who never had to work the line. If you've met entitled people who grew into riches/inheritance, you just know that they have this "detachment" to normal human interaction. Hell, he wen to harvard.
I know a kid who is now at hardvard and his father had money, he only needs to pay 36.000 euro per year because he's "poor" for harvard standards and the kid gets subsidized. For someone who grows up in such money, getting what they want, how they want it, when they want it, especially when you have something like harvard on your resume, you have never had to face a wall and make true social interaction descisions, because you can just drop people and schrug it off as a "loss" and plod on.
I mean, people who buy a shawl of 10.000 euro live in another reality to our own.
@ColeValleyGirl exactly
@Mithical how's your mouth?
Not as numb as earlier in the day.
The secret is ramen noodles and soup.
But I seriously frickin' hate the numbing.
3:48 PM
@Mithical glad to hear! Can you eat properly?
Well for some reason it never bothered me much, maybe because I always do it in the morning (8-9 AM) so until lunch it's all over.
@Tschallacka man thinking about those people and refugees....
I've been doing it at 11, over by 12, then I go riding for a couple hours until I'm allowed to eat again.
@Tschallacka and banana for $100K?
3:50 PM
@shadow9 yea, indeed. I mean, if you make something like 500k per year after tax... do you really know the value of bread?
@user400654 yes that's where the banana eventually goes
There are youtube videos out there asking people how much something costs
and the rich consitently make a mockery of themselves
@Tschallacka depends who you are. Some do, but still spend ridiculous amount just because they don't have anything better to spend it on.
yes, but those that do, are usually first gen riches
or have an abnormal compassionate streak
people who built something off themselves, and then had success with it are usually the "better" rich people.
3:52 PM
because they remember where they came from. Take a look at reddit/prorevenge for example at the stories where the old owner got to old and the kid(2nd gen that grew up in riches) took over.
it rarely ends up good.
why? detached from reality, basic human needs, basic normal conventions. All that matters are statistics, metrics and putting your own stamp on it.
Anyone who disagrees is removed, if needed forcefully.
but as I said, i'm way to cynical. I work now for a 2nd gen boss, and she's halfway decent, othertimes baffingly detached. One of her quotes "People need to be shouted at sometimes."
But then again, I'm way to cynical. I used to be good of faith, but I stubbed my toe on that too often.
@Tschallacka I like to think there always needs to be some hope as a guide.
@Crowie I always hope people will do better than I expect, and then I'm usually dissapointed, but I don't let my actions be guided by hope. I just looked at our glorious CEO's track record. So far he hasn't held a position longer than 2 years. The longest continuous employment was at rackspace for 7 years.
So if this holds up, he'll be gone in 9-21 months.
so my hope is: He'll be here in 22 months and still going strong.
@Tschallacka I'm reading your stuff on GDPR. Its good, thank for putting that stuff out there. Disclosure, my wife is a lawyer (property) and I've had the benefit of some of her colleagues helping me with workplace law. Putting stuff out there in everyday speak is a great thing in law and very valuable... which I think we strive to do on this site. Great work, thanks!
sorry reading on the arbitration stuff
4:02 PM
@Crowie ah, the abritration clause of SO? They can stuff that where the sun doesn't shine for europeans \o/ at least, I think I wrote that, or was it just dutchies.
@Tschallacka my hope isn't in him. Its in the people of this community. Ive seen people fight for my questions against more experienced people career wise who've been rude. SE moderation is the example of hope in this case
@Tschallacka yes
@Tschallacka when the workplace lawyer was helping me with a redundancy she explained how when a contract has infinite time on the binding nature it is invalid at law.... so nice to have a lawyer say 'yeah they are trying to act like they have a big **** and they don't'
anyway, random expression of my love for europe
@Tschallacka yep
@Crowie oh yea, I like being in Europe, it has a lot more protection of the citizens. But it's very fragile here. There is this huge anti Europe movement simmering, and I'm afraid it might shatter the protections we have here. People don't know what they have till they lose it, and hten still they carry on stubbornly. points to brexit
I also kinda like the no wars within europe that comes with it... If you look at the history here it was always one war or another
yeah.... what is the name for when subsequent generations forget what their ancestors did and have a reactionary response to the present causing the problems of the past.

*insert simpsons 'definitiion of brexit' *

Urgh... so crap moving to the UK with Brexit in the news from Australia.
Let's see how long that will last. The no wars bit is the single most important benefit of the EU and yet people seem to be forgetting it completely.
European nations have been killing each other for more than a thousand years, after all, no big deal, right?
but... the silver lining... i do like to be where the action is. Nice to be a part of life, not hiding in the furthest part of the world from it ie Australia, see 'attitudes to climate change in australia'
4:11 PM
@terdon im worried that people dont see that wars come from racism and xenophobia, that small hate crimes are the things that lead to wars. individuals beaten, name called, shunned, silenced.
australia... like all these rising right wing places.

I remember watching an economist after the GFC talk about it leading to war. It kills me.
@terdon every step of europa's history was soaked in blood and infighting
@Tschallacka gold
I'm from the Netherlands where we experienced a thing called the 80 year war
Can you imagine a war that lasted for 4 generations of people?
4:14 PM
@Tschallacka also gold
@Tschallacka can you imagine fighting for a lord or a king
can you imagine thinking that a king cares about you
@Crowie they fought for coin. As soon as the coin was gone, the soldiers were vanishing
A soldiers honour is as large as the coffer that pays them
@Tschallacka hmm yeah, I dont think about that enough
@Crowie yep
@Tschallacka And as small as the coffin that bears them.
so the dutch were in a 80 year long war followed by the actual 30 year war
The way to lure people into dying for you is promising that widows pension
4:16 PM
@Tschallacka there's worse.
The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts from 1337 to 1453, waged between the House of Plantagenet, rulers of England and the French House of Valois, over the right to rule the Kingdom of France. Each side drew many allies into the war. It was one of the most notable conflicts of the Middle Ages, in which five generations of kings from two rival dynasties fought for the throne of the largest kingdom in Western Europe. The war marked both the height of chivalry and its subsequent decline, and the development of strong national identities in both countries. Tensions between the French and...
I was about to link that
> War Start date End date Duration
Reconquista 718/722 1492 774 years[1]
> By the war's end, feudal armies had been largely replaced by professional troops, and aristocratic dominance had yielded to a democratisation of the manpower and weapons of armies.

We're done dying for you stuck up powdered pr*cks
@Tschallacka are...
@terdon these...
fun fact: after the plantagenet dynasty was weakened by losing the 100 years war, the wars of the roses broke out, lasting another 30 years
@Magisch which were then inspiration for the book series a song of fire and ice.
4:20 PM
@Crowie ?
less then two hundred years later the 80 years dutch vs spain war broke out
12 year truce later the 30 years war broke out
10 mins ago, by terdon
European nations have been killing each other for more than a thousand years, after all, no big deal, right?
'a soldiers honour is as large as the coffers that pay them and as small as the coffins that bury them'... that has to be a quote
.... am i missing some trivia
@Crowie Oh, no. I just made that up. If it's a quote, I didn't know it.
I also made that up. It's more than logical really
I'm not going to die without a nice payout being possible. I can't imagine peasants feeling differently. One battle with reasonable chances of survival, pays as much as 2 years toiling the earth.
4:22 PM
Sorry, thanks for the chat. I'm a stay at home dad and have been on here during my son's afternoon nap. Need to get him up or he wont sleep.
@Tschallacka its quotable
And looking at the investment market, people are bad at assessing risks
*watching the Codidact Twitter notifications explode*
Thanks George :P
So when Codidact goes life, will there be an option to import Stack Overflow questions and answers, with decoupling key to claim ownership of your own contributions?
would be the easiest way to get content on there fast.
and by decoupling you can remove the stack overflow links, because people own their own copyrights.
@Tschallacka Yes.
That's what's currently live on Writing QPixel, which will be ported to Codidact when Codidact goes live.
That's cool. I'm not a .NET coder. php and java are my work horses, so I can't contribute much to the project
4:30 PM
PHP!? And you seemed so nice...
I'm not a programmer at all, I'm more focused on the people part. And planning stuff. There's a lot do without actually writing code, to be honest.
4:43 PM
@terdon I've been coding since I was 16, all coding languages are equal and php has largely sobered up since version 7. Less gotchas to account for
@Tschallacka I'm just screwing around. I barely know any PHP at all. I taught myself some a few years ago but never went back to it. I just know it's reputation, I don't actually have an opinion on whether it's deserved.
@terdon it's like most languages, it's easy to code crap, it takes skill to code beauty.
how are you going to pay for all the servers tho o_O
....grr, my extension isn't working to see vote counts on MSO and I need another 500 rep to earn that privilege
@Mithical Which post?
4:50 PM
I like the root servers of strato. Relatively cheap, goid service and connectivity
@PM2Ring The CEO's post and the answers to it, mostly.
@Tschallacka I guess I should probably admit I do most of my work in Perl. I am no stranger to languages that don't force you to write clean code :)
@Mithical Any particular post you're looking for the vote counts on?
@Mithical The question is +180 / -88
Thanks. What about Aaron's answer?
4:53 PM
@Mithical +302 / -4
my answer 'repcapped' which was entirely unexpected by me xD
And MadScientist's is +248 / -3
@PM2Ring Thanks!
It's nice to see that the behaviour of people on MSO & MSE responding to the CEO post has been quite good. Maybe Shog's & Magisch's recent posts have had some positive effect.
Just wait...
It's always a question of just waiting for the right person to come along.
5:05 PM
i think in general MSO is a calmer place than mse
there's less -rep flying around
(asin none)
there's more mods to handle the moderation as well
@user400654 I have a brigde to sell you :D
it's not constantly hounded by people trying to push their own agendas like mse is
MSE is ground zero for that
Given that MSE has also been declared a place to post answers... It's still 'just wait'
@terdon Allegedly, modern PHP is much better. One reason for its bad reputation is that it wasn't originally designed in a formal way, it just grew organically from a simple tool that was created to make simple dynamic web pages.
in Python on Stack Overflow Chat, Oct 4 '17 at 10:53, by poke
Btw. modern PHP done properly is kind of nice.
@Mithical yw
5:11 PM
in Python on Stack Overflow Chat, Feb 17 '17 at 10:13, by poke
@AnttiHaapala The problem is mostly that PHP is so old and the better stuff (the OOP parts, and the new APIs) are still too new so there are far too many examples with the old stuff which still works and looks so much easier. So there’s a huge difference between PHP developer and PHP developer.
every place has it's bad apples, just watch the comment archive
Also see chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/35709983#35709983 FWIW, Poke is a Python RO, and although he prefers Python he is also a PHP expert.
I never understood the intense hatred for PHP
Our current ERP system is written in PHP, and it's quite functional and not very spaghetti code-y or prone to errors
we even got some unit tests
@Magisch It's because of the people that used to program in PHP most likely ;)
It's like Magik. I realize I don't really hate the language... I do hate the way some predecessors treated it though.
We have to maintain a lot of old procedural Delphi code at our company. Similar thing.
Also not all of the devs who created that code were really well educated programmers.
I see CTRL-C / CTRL-V instead of constant refactoring all the way :(
5:25 PM
@Tinkeringbell is right. We get people asking new questions using an api that has been deprecated years ago because tutorials out there still teach to use it.
@πάνταῥεῖ I had to support a similar "project" by a former apprentice that became critical business logic
I have loads of l_wrzlprmft's
I knuckled down and rewrote the entire thing in our current software
It's really hard to educate and root out all those, even though slowly the new PHP versions simply refuse to run old code, so we slowly get there.
Wjere the only thing you know for sure is that that's a local variable
5:26 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ but I'm already used to that key combination to get the stuff from SO that isn't in the current code base ...
Because of the l_
I estimate that rewriting it cost me about as many hours as the yearly support did
@rene In these particular cases I referred to, it's mostly used to copy already bad code from the existing code base into even worse code.
I wonder if higher management even realizes how much their sites are not a complete spam wasteland thanks to user managed initiatives like that.
5:33 PM
ROI Excel sheets and Powerpoint presentations of so called experts mislead them I guess.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier well there's that sheet of a year in moderation showing how much people do
it shows how much less the CM's do too unfortunately?
which, can lead to broken thinking.
Hmmm yeah. I don't recall it mentionning all the tools, userscripts, bots etc that have been developped.
I believe SOBotics was featured on the SO blog once.
5:53 PM
@Felix Everything is nice here ;)
6:45 PM
you can still delete
@user1306322 I just wanted to get the gif to go away
also it didn't get off my screen at any point lol
can anyone friendly-bin it please?
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone
Um. That "go away" was not addressed to anyone! It was addressed to the horrible dog.
Go away, horrible dog, I said, go away.
My apologies if you thought I was telling you to go away, @user1306322 (or anyone else).
6:47 PM
@JNat That's among the quickest to be handled
no problem, also I immediately thought how it could be interpreted that way and was worried someone might mistakenly read it that way but I suppose we're all smart people here lol
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I was looking at this room when you pinged me, so that's why
were you mesmerized by the melting dogue?
was reading what @terdon had written :P
Ominous hand gestures followed by the dog poofing
6:49 PM
:8196240 Well, I don't really like that meme well :D
@user1306322 Someone flagged it, which is completely understandable. It could easily be taken the wrong way!
Thanks, @Magisch.
$ echo "can we please get that repeating thing off of our screens so we don't need to look at it any more?" | fold -w1
@Magisch people say death is scary but then it also ends the eternal loop of suffering so go figure :p may the dog melt in peace
That's what I had written, @JNat :P
Yup, I managed to read it all before you tried to fix it :P
are there any events other than review and duplicate close vote that post a comment from your name under a post?
Or a mod, yeah.
I just wonder if there's value in making automatically posted comments visually distinct from the ones where you clicked "add comment" and typed them
automatic comments shouldn't exist
If the system wants to present a message, the system should present it
well… that ship has sailed and sunk, so… next step :p
in other words, don't (ab)use my name/reputation to present your message to the user
6:59 PM
It seems I hit some nerve(s) when posting that innocuous meme :P

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