Tavern on the Meta

and myself

2:11 AM

somehow morning?

Journeyman Geek

2:46 AM

Woof

ɪBᴜɢ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ je viens de Chine et j'apprends français.

@JourneymanGeek did you mean Voof? :P

Journeyman Geek

3:04 AM

No?

forest

3:41 AM

Is there a firearms Stack Exchange?

and myself

Failed proposal, if I'm not mistken

Firearms – firearms.stackexchange.com

Q&A site for firearm experts and enthusiasts.

Closed after 185 days in beta.

forest

That's too bad. Is there any site for asking about firearm use and maintenance?

and myself

Since that failed proposal, I don't think so

forest

Nothing for general purpose hardware maintenance or something?

Alex

3:58 AM

Maybe you can ask how to make one on Arts & Crafts.

forest

har har

Journeyman Geek

4:25 AM

@forest one of the more suprising things - I know a few (past?) SE employees were firearms enthusiasts, and its a fairly active/vocal community. So not getting traction enough to have their site make it past early beta is a bit surprising

Rob

@forest At least that one is visible, there was one for "Knives and Swords" at https://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/34298/knives-and-swords but it was nuked and doesn't turn up in a search.

Journeyman Geek

technically those are arms, not firearms, even if you set it on fire

forest

heh

Rob

Strangely weapons site proposals don't see to do well, despite the popularity {?}

forest

Are they disallowed or something?

Rob

4:29 AM

Not popular (enough).

forest

ah

Rob

If lots of people signed up and wrote great questions there's a chance it could move forward.

Not sure why Knives and Swords got the axe.

forest

Well knives and swords seems far more niche.

Rob

Like we couldn't have MJ.SE because everyone would be too laid back and not make the effort. 🚬

forest

MJ?

Rob

4:33 AM

Look at smiley

Ist verboten

forest

I see a square box containing the hex "01f6ac".

Catija

MJ -= Mary Jane... a term for marijuana.

forest

Ah

I'd subscribe to a beta for weed. lol

Rob

We'll just call it 01F6AC from now on.

forest

0x1a4

Rob

4:36 AM

Apparently 50% of the people would, and it's legal in a few countries, and locally in a few States.

forest

Who cares if it's legal? It's not hurting anyone.

Victimless crimes should never be made illegal.

Rob

SE cares if it's legal/moral)etc.

forest

The production of weaponized fissile material is illegal, but that doesn't stop WorldBuilding or Physics from legally discussing it.

Rob

Well on space.SE you can't discuss building a rocket.

Journeyman Geek

well, in the case of firearms it was a lack of interest

forest

4:39 AM

Well yeah, it's off-topic there.

But on Physics, an appropriate question would certainly be on-topic.

Journeyman Geek

fun fact. If I went someone that weed was legal, smoked it/injested it and came back, and was drug tested positive for it, I could still go to jail. ;p

forest

That's messed up.

Rob

Not "OT" because it is OT. It's OT because discussion is not allowed.

forest

@Rob Why not?

Journeyman Geek

@forest Funner fact. I saw this on an ad at a bus stop

forest

4:41 AM

@JourneymanGeek Oh, it's probably just propaganda then. Those often lie.

Journeyman Geek

@forest oh, its definately a law

forest

Which country?

Journeyman Geek

Singapore

forest

ah

@Rob Looking it up, I see many questions related to that on Space.SE.

Rob

In Asia and the Philippines the laws are different from North America with respect to usage. In NA they were going to prohibit government officials from crossing the border because their jobs involved drugs, but after a lot of thought they figured out that was stupid.

Forest, back in a minute.

forest

4:44 AM

aight

(I'll be gone in a minute too though, so I'll have to read the scroll log)

Rob

@forest - Please read here concerning "on topic", on Space.SE. Quoting:

- Questions relating to amateur experiments that are extremely dangerous, such as home-brew rocket propellant

WARNING: This community does not condone such experiments as there may be risk to your health (or even risk of death), and they may even be illegal in your jurisdiction. If you are considering making your own rocket propellant/fuel, please DO NOT DO THIS! Rocket propellant is extremely dangerous, and the protection and storage requirements are best left to professionals.

forest

Oh I get it, just a safety thing.

Just like EE sometimes doesn't answer questions about amateurs and high voltage.

But that seems to be about amateur rocket experiments.

I imagine a rocket engineer or a professional could ask a question happily.

Rob

So it is "OnT" - but they don't allow it, so they call it OT. Clear as mud.

They probably don't allow explosives and nerve gas on Chemistry.SE - though I'm not looking it up.

Journeyman Geek

5:00 AM

Technically the sort of question a pro would ask would be ... rocket science compared to...

@Rob there's a few "unusual" rules that are not that well documented on many sites

like SU's rather disliked hackintosh rule.

well disliked when you want to ask a hackintosh question anyway

also

don't do it, you will hurt yourself can be an answer

Rob

@JourneymanGeek Some have documentation that people are eventually pointed to as sympathy starts to kick in and the downvotes are liberally applied - like asking a Kali question on U&L and other sites. Know it, or leave it alone; no more questions!

Journeyman Geek

@Rob kali is an interesting case though

quite a lot of the folks who ask questions kind of...

lack basic knowledge, and confuse the tools with the skills they need

Rob

You have to know, or don't ask.

Journeyman Geek

so in many cases there's a literal amount of lack of research

Rob

True the questions are poorly founded.

Journeyman Geek

5:13 AM

(aibobot is my sock btw)

I don't actually blame them

Rob

But in that case people are prohibited from saying noob be gone!

Journeyman Geek

Not everyone is cut out to be a hacker (or dev). and folks kinda assume we can take short cuts

and we don't teach people to look at the bigger set of skills they need to do things

Rob

Yes, "I won't 'Google It™' I'll just ask a few questions and make a dozen comments asking for clarification on Stack Exchange / Overflow" -- everyone will be my pal and hep me.

Journeyman Geek

and we fill their heads with the idea that they need to be a programmer or dev, whether or not that makes them happy

Rob

[intentional misspelling]

Journeyman Geek

5:17 AM

@Rob one of the unis I studied in actually had a course on googling...

and it basically was an awesome, useful thing

Rob

I really like that animated 'google it' URL that is filtered out of comments, it is pretty good but not friendly enough.

Journeyman Geek

eh

so, an essential skill that you can't google for, and people are crap at teaching is actually picking up on all the little bits of information around and putting them together

So the problem with the folks using kali is really

the folks teaching them are not teaching them the full spectrum of things.

I've got a degree in computer forensics and ISM

and they quite literally sometimes throw you a project/puzzle with little input

and that really helps you solve a problem

so while from the SE perpective, I do get the quality control

its actually a symptom, IMO of lower quality teaching, non holisitic approaches and well... people getting failed by the system

on the other hand, not our problem - unless they want to make the effort to go above and beyond.

(incidentally - one of the things I recommend people try is to pick a project, and build it based on information you can find - and only asking questions when you're stuck)

Rob

There's a lot of bits and pieces to know, to use a tool correctly. A couple of quick questions won't help unless the question is which school rates best for penetration courses or what's the site with the best set of beginners links - so I can come back in a few years with a great question.

Journeyman Geek

@Rob see both those things would be off topic

Rob

Yes.

Journeyman Geek

5:29 AM

Personal humblebrag/example

I built my own router - basically a variation on this arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/…

on the other hand , I didn't copy it completely - I swapped bind and the dhcp server they used for dnsmasq, went with firewalld for easier management, and got bitten by an odd bug with netplan and dnsmasq

I then got stuck with ipv6 - and found a useful howto here superuser.com/a/745403/10165 worked on it, then documented my variations

and real problems are often not just one tool

its a synthesis of many moving parts

Rob

It's like an old boys club - no way to enter (via this route). Put another way,: "You can't get there from here".

Journeyman Geek

not really

Rob

A better analogy?

Journeyman Geek

what you get out of a place depends on what you take with you

but I'm not a fan of the way we teach tech - I prefer a more... vocational approach

Rob

I went back to school a few times. I took with me smokes, coffee money, enough cash for a good lunch and bus fare. It was enough to leave with perfect attendance and marks over 90%>

I couldn't (wouldn't wanted to) have taken less with me, and couldn't have gotten much more out of it. No one gets 100%.

Speaking of which, time for a poison stick and adrenaline top-up.

Back in an hour.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:13 AM

@ɪBᴜɢ right, je forgot

Journeyman Geek

7:19 AM

@Rob more that the trick to sucessfully using Q&A sites is that its more than a place to ask questions

its also useful as a way to sharpen your skills and find interesting problems

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Stabbing @Journey with sharpened skills

My skills are military grade weapons now

crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/66461/… Someone should most definitely edit that title

The question made it to HNQ

Journeyman Geek

/me sends @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ to the blades and swords SE

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Isn't that meta.SO?

I was already there, reading a rant and having breakfast

Journeyman Geek

no, that's stabby.se.

Magisch

stab.SE for all things stabbable

and myself

7:28 AM

Meh, pending edit on Crypto HNQ :(

Magisch

not to be confused with bludgeon.SE

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Magisch I wonder what "What topics can I ask about here?" would contain

and myself

I'd prefer stub.SE

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

> - for cases of possible consequences of murder, visit law.stackexchange.com

Journeyman Geek

no no

its PCAA.SE

Percussive cranial attitude adjustment

and myself

7:31 AM

... okay, I thought it's Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Or Personal Computer AA battery

ɪBᴜɢ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ tu apprends français?

and myself

bu zhi dao

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ɪBᴜɢ Non

Not yet at least

ɪBᴜɢ

languages like French, Spanish and Italian are easy to learn once you have some basic knowledge of a similar one

and myself

7:38 AM

I tried German and Esperanto. I just can't pronounce French (and unfortunately Chinese) words easily...

Journeyman Geek

je comprends tres un peux francais.....

actually I can understand french if its spoken non natively

ɪBᴜɢ

@andmyself French pronunciation is tricky IMO

especially when you try to match it with text

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

"tricky"? I'd use another word not appropriate in professional contexts

ɪBᴜɢ

all those silent letters and liaison, especially when 2 or 3 letters are silent at end

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ if you can gank michel thomas' language cds somewhere

he has a lot of tricks for tat

and myself

7:41 AM

The only memorable thing for me is "the silent H" because I learnt that from... Detective Conan

ɪBᴜɢ

H is silent in Latin, so ...

and myself

Even the English alphabet is already confusing for some of us. Ei? Bee? See?

ɪBᴜɢ

Great Vowel Shift

The Great Vowel Shift was a series of changes in the pronunciation of the English language that took place primarily between 1350 and the 1600s and 1700s, beginning in southern England and today having influenced effectively all dialects of English. Through this vowel shift, all Middle English long vowels changed their pronunciation. Some consonant sounds changed as well, particularly those that became silent; the term Great Vowel Shift is sometimes used to include these consonant changes.English spelling began to become standardized in the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Great Vowel Shift is...

meat and meet used to pronounce differently, and are also different from their current pronunciation

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@andmyself A lot of the argewments I sea on metuh are the epitoam of hyperbowl

and myself

Come to think of it, I don't even know much about the history of my language!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

7:47 AM

BBL some studying

and myself

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I like HyperBowl.

okay, apparently Austronesian language. Because everytime I see Indo-European/Indo-German, I thought that's related to my language orz

Rob

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Should have made a question involving a title: "How to lookup a dress".

Journeyman Geek

._.

Rob

@JourneymanGeek I used to have time to spend days researching the answer to questions but after too many rewards of less than 30 rep for that and too many rewards of 100's of Rep for questions taking a few hours research it became apparent that many don't really care for the mind numbing answers, or even the difficult ones, and that small bites appeal to a bigger audience. I know that's sad, but I don't own it.

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ think Red Baron was when edit caused a negative scored question to have positive score... the aggression question is at -12, far from positive. So no red baron to whoever edited it. :D

@Rob yeah looks like some are not aware of it. So we should just tell them. :)

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ trivial: the one and only consequence of murder is death of someone. Not "possible consequence". Otherwise it wouldn't be called murder. Duh. ;)

Rob

8:04 AM

@ShadowWizard And himself didn't realize it was Mar's mar.

Shadow Wizard

@Rob as long as you don't Rob anyone we're fine.

:D

awarding self a gold Awful Pun badge

Rob

🎰

[one arm bandit]

Shadow Wizard

Google says it's "Slot Machine". ;)

Rob

✋😟✋ 🔫

Is that better,?

Looks like you have two left hands!

@ShadowWizard I think he meant criminal (or even civil) liability of the accused, not the consequences for the misfortunate one.

For example, an action that does not result in death within a year is not murder even if they end up dying of whatever was done. Another example is if something is done and they are kept alive, but unconscious, at the hospital and the family chooses to unplug them (and they don't live) the person can be charged with murder. One last one is self defense, where the death is deliberate, won't result in a conviction. All the above is for North America. Obviously elsewhere may not be the same.

Shadow Wizard

8:26 AM

@Rob lol

@Rob ohh

Tinkeringbell

Morning!

Shadow Wizard

@Rob pretty much the same here, yep.

@Tinkeringbell Good?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Mediocre

and myself

I'm... having a hard time to understand this meta post on Earth Science...

2

Tinkeringbell

Lost my access badge, was too late at the carpool spot, found the access badge, the 'nice' coworker is near today.

Shree

8:30 AM

del-pls 20k+ discussion off-topic Graph operations Middle central and total graph‭ - vani‭ 2019-01-14 04:46:06Z

Tinkeringbell

Gone

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell oh. What prevents it from being good then? :|

Tinkeringbell

2 mins ago, by Tinkeringbell

Lost my access badge, was too late at the carpool spot, found the access badge, the 'nice' coworker is near today.

Journeyman Geek

hah

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell oh. But didn't you move to a different team without that coworker?

Journeyman Geek

8:32 AM

I walked into another S1 incident at work

Shadow Wizard

Yeah losing the card isn't fun

Journeyman Geek

on the bright side, things go by fast

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek S1?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard nearly apocalyptic

Shadow Wizard

oh

Details?

Journeyman Geek

8:32 AM

actually apparently there were two

classified :D

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Yes and no.

I thought I'd be rid of it entirely, but apparently we're still required to work together to an extent.

Journeyman Geek

basically <redacted> happened at <redacted> and all the <redacted> <redacted> made worse by <redacted> <redacted> and <redacted>

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself perfect example for "Unclear what you're asking" close reason.

@Tinkeringbell ouch. How often? For how long?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard At least one day a week. Having other co-workers around helps though.

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek that's <redacted> helpful. <redacted> a lot! :<redacted>

@Tinkeringbell well... good luck with that... and hope for the best. :)

Tinkeringbell

8:36 AM

I'll survivie. I've survived worse.

and myself

Looks like you're handling an SCP...

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself Super Cool Person?

@Tinkeringbell survivie is great skill. Almost, but not entirely, like covfefe. ;-)

and myself

Secure, Contain, Protect

Tinkeringbell

I'm documenting a lot, and manager and me have weekly calls to make sure there won't be any lies spread.

So far, so good.

ɪBᴜɢ

This?

Shadow Wizard

8:39 AM

@ɪBᴜɢ umm... what? What about this and to what is it related?

ɪBᴜɢ

@ShadowWizard all your <redacted> above :)

Shadow Wizard

You tried to reply to someone and forgot to click the reply icon? @ɪBᴜɢ

ɪBᴜɢ

@ShadowWizard not someone

Shadow Wizard

@ɪBᴜɢ oh. lol. Very hard to guess.

and myself

I tried to reply to a reply arrow

Shadow Wizard

8:41 AM

Anyway, no, the <redacted> is @Journeyman's censorship. Just some well hidden secrets. :D

@andmyself did it reply back?

At least you didn't try to lick it!

and myself

It replied replied replied replied replied ....

ɪBᴜɢ

@ShadowWizard no denying that Jeff is a humorous person :)

Shadow Wizard

@ɪBᴜɢ yeah too bad he was shoved out

ɪBᴜɢ

never seen a second person as humorous as Jeff :(

and myself

(^ above you)

Shadow Wizard

8:46 AM

@andmyself no, you!

:D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I am <redacted> to be of <redacted>

also, not kidding about my job being classified ;p

Shadow Wizard

status-redacted

@JourneymanGeek nah, sure it's related to the invisible tank you're developing.

:P

Journeyman Geek

I didn't see that coming.

and myself

tank...top

Shadow Wizard

I saw what you did there! ^^

Journeyman Geek

8:48 AM

but not the tank!

Shadow Wizard

Too.... heavy...

Journeyman Geek

(more seriously - I do believe that aside from my NDA, my current workplace is covered under the OSA en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act#Singapore )

Shadow Wizard

SOA is better

Journeyman Geek

so personally I just tend to share stuff that's in the news

and myself

Looks like the news is currently biased to Singapore-Malaysia border

Shadow Wizard

8:52 AM

You can create JourneyLeaks website. :D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard quite honestly, most of my work is boring lol

Magisch

I can't believe the US gov shutdown is still going on

24th day now

Transcript for