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02:00 - 11:0011:00 - 00:00

11:00 AM
It's like a tech company saying 'this year, we'll only hire female devs, until our numbers are looking great', thus making the company hostile to male devs.
(And not a fun place to be in as a female either, btw)
Excel sheet management ...
@JourneymanGeek I've been around for just over a year now, I didn't think I experienced much of that change...
@Tinkeringbell well SE was a lot smaller
and I guess the CM team had more time?
But one of the things here is how often folks feel like they arn't heard over... well twitter.
I mean, we had a period of time when people kept telling us "We need to put more resources into docs/careers/???" its for the good of the network
and... well
Something changed. It looks like the company switched to becoming professional. Not all goals are aligned yet.
@rene hm
maybe? But its a company that relies a lot on user generated content and users.
11:10 AM
Something definitely changed. I can't put my finger on what that change is though. I don't think 'professional' is the right word.
@PaulWhite well I'd say priorities.
Well sure, but that's a bit general. In what way have those priorities changed, and what to.
@PaulWhite well ya
early on, it was community building, and it was this new, fun concept.
There is one aspect I might identify: an emphasis on things that might once have been considered political correctness.
But Q&A was done. Twas boring, and people would use it anyway.
@PaulWhite the PCness is new
11:12 AM
It's pretty clear there's been an adjustment in business model as well.
@PaulWhite oh thaaaat
well careers was always supposed to be the big revenue source
Well I'm talking about multiple things at once so
the restructuring was a bit of a shock - and it was something that had taken a lot of dev time and attention.
yes agreed
a lot of good (and sensible) voices were lost
11:13 AM
And some parts of the company are relatively neglected
(and still are)
@PaulWhite maybe I mean they switched from these things are cool to these things are needed for the long term vision, so stick with it. The twitter accidents are just that, accidents. Needs a bit of learning ...
I find the current direction and recent changes in direction somewhat bothersome.
And certainly less fun.
@rene but the long term vision's kinda also a bit limited
@rene Maybe, though it seems to be becoming a bit of a pattern.
I don't know the long term vision ...
11:15 AM
Mind you, I just read Monica's post so I may be a bit biased.
@rene well "these are things we need to be profitable"
since SE's "lets diversify from Q&A" project sunsetted.
and well, the core of Q&A is done. I don't see anyone getting too excited about it.
Maybe they should just switch to a Wikipedia model instead of trying to invent real revenue streams
@PaulWhite have Joel beg for donations every year?
pretty much yeah
@PaulWhite on the other hand, the things I feel they could do better are not orthoganal to making money
11:17 AM
along with jobs and teams that ought to be sufficient
(and in some cases is a start)
@JourneymanGeek which things?
@PaulWhite they really need to re-engage with the community, and realise that they need to scale that side of things up
ok yep
I don't imagine CHAOS happening again (and that's a pity)
11:19 AM
what was that?
They basically got a half dozen CMs at once
no SE experience, set them a beta site, and got them to help build it
Q: Why did the CHAOS programme stop?

DanBealeBack in September 2011, SE hired people as part of a CHAOS programme. This team was used to promote SE and help smaller SE sites develop and grow and leave beta. For example, they could edit titles and posts; they would provide well researched answers to questions; they'd help run competitions t...

not what I was looking for actually, MOMENT!
Alex Miller on September 15, 2011

For the past couple months, we’ve had a new team starting up out of our NY office, CHAOS (or if you’re not into that whole brevity thing: Cheerful Helpful Advocates of Stack Exchange).  You’ve probably seen them around some of the sites or run into them in one of the chat rooms – but here’s your official introduction:

CHAOS works directly with Joel and me to come up with, and execute on, new ways to promote all of the new SE sites and bring in new users.  Looking at the original job posting we put up, you can get a bit of a feel for what they’ll be doing: …

and here's an essential part, They were deeply embedded into communities.
And that's something I feel's lacking. A lot of the community team's handlng the back end stuff and... that kinda isn't a great way to outreach folks.
I see.
I think at this point I'd be happy if SO/SE just focussed on the core stuff for a while, rather than trying to provide moral leadership to the world.
11:25 AM
@PaulWhite eh, that's what management management is for ;)
Also, a good chunk of the initial CM team were folks who were tech evangelists.
To borrow phrases I hate from my mispent post-youth as a management major
We badly need to get our core audience re-engaged and re-energised.
It's ironic to me that efforts to be more inclusive have been the most divisive.
28 mins ago, by Tinkeringbell
@JourneymanGeek Honestly, the thing that crossed my mind most this weekend is that 'more welcoming to new users, women, minorities'... shouldn't come at the expense of 'welcoming to who's not in those groups' and that balance now seems skewed
You're not the only one ;)
@PaulWhite imagine the same message without the tweet storm
and with more positivity
@Tinkeringbell Yep I saw that and nodded to myself.
(technically I'm a minority? ;p)
(which is a shock to people who assume I'm american or british)
11:28 AM
@JourneymanGeek Technically, I most likely am too.
We're all minorities of one in the end.
On the other hand, I think abuse is abuse, and will result in a good swift kick to the butt.
@PaulWhite People in minorities are in the majority now.
@JourneymanGeek Honestly? I think it'd then have resulted in perhaps edited titles on the two/three IPS posts linked, and perhaps a meta on IPS on writing better titles.
11:30 AM
@Tinkeringbell you're a female mod... did you see the results of the mod stats survey?
@Tinkeringbell oh, I guess
or even talking to y'all first to soften the blow
@ArtOfCode I took a peek after I entered my answers. That was pretty early on though, lemme look up the link again.
Seen. But it doesn't bother me much. Does it bother you?
8.1% IIRC
11:31 AM
I didn't take the mod survey this year
@ArtOfCode 13.9
@Tinkeringbell someone was complaining about all the SU mods being male ._.
I'm personally hoping that a specific user keeps up the good work, cause she's showing a ton of potential XD
hmm. twice in the mod survey I am the only one who responded with that response...
@JourneymanGeek See... that's the kind of behavior I can't stand very well. 'All the SU mods are male'. Why not just run in an election based on your achievements, what the !@#$ should your gender matter online ?
@Tinkeringbell it doesn't bother me, but if it's equal representation SE want they're doing a pretty terrible job
11:32 AM
@ArtOfCode If it's equal representation they're going for, I'm out.
You're all equal to me ...
Yeah, we know @Bart all hates us equally too
@Mithrandir I thought there was only one of those for you
@Tinkeringbell see? I don't care the user is female
I care that she's showing the makings of being a great possible mod ;p
@Tinkeringbell 'dislikes' surely 😉
11:34 AM
@JourneymanGeek Which is cool. But I've definitely seen the arguments of 'I'm running and I deserve a vote because I'm female and there aren't any yet/not enough yet'... and that bugs me.
@Tinkeringbell also, lets see, we have 2 indians (from different countries) one hearing impaired mod, 2 brits...
Survey's provide the data needed for the management by Excel sheet
I don't think anyone can accuse us of being non diverse XD
Sep 18 at 7:50, by Mithrandir
(bleh, i'll just say it, i've hinted it enough times today: i'm non-cis)
wth does non-cis mean
11:35 AM
@Mithrandir and I don't think that has any relationship with your modditude XD
@JourneymanGeek right
@Mithrandir aye, I saw that one on your response, but clearly I missed the other unique:)
@ArtOfCode that'd be country
Actually the one thing I want in a mod is a different timezone for better coverage
@PaulWhite "cis" is kinda... well like you
@Mithrandir Oh, duh
11:36 AM
@Mithrandir Ah... I thought age...
but gender/gender identities...
@JourneymanGeek This works fairly well in the Lit mod team - Zye and I are like ten hours apart. That's good coverage, but makes finding a time when we're both online a little difficult :p
Are a lot more interesting than what equipment you were born with at birth, and how you use it?
@Mithrandir we leave ourselves notes on our mod room XD
(and then Gall is the Saturday mod /s ;P)
and here, I end up dealing with things on my own a lot, and that's usually ok XD
11:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek don't you cover all timezones all at once?
@PaulWhite naw, its variable so no one expects me.
@JourneymanGeek "here" being the Tavern?
though as I joked, it will certainly be something to mention if I try for a future CM role
@Mithrandir ya
yeah, the rest of us are often asleep when you have to deal with stuff... although i've been up till like 3AM dealing with Tavern stuff before :p
our mod team is one west-coast US, one east-coast, one UK, and one NZ.
11:40 AM
@Mithrandir my sleep timings are bit varied at the moment
my job's swing shift XD
it's funny how often we're online at the same time
India, Netherlands and three US based mods (although I don't know which coasts)
and tbh, I can deal with most things.
@Tinkeringbell I thought AJ was US based?
@Tinkeringbell pretty good coverage
@JourneymanGeek Then he's up when the rest is asleep :P I'm pretty sure he keeps telling me stuff about India. ;)
11:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek His English is good enough to almost pass, but he is in fact Indian :P
@Mithrandir I mean, he's ethnic indian but elsewhere XD
@Tinkeringbell everyone who's a 1st and second gen immegrant from india does
I do!
but occationally as a distraction
Okay, I must admit I have no actual address :P Just behavior, language and hints to go on ;)
@Mithrandir Heh... I took the harder road
ohhhh snap
(something interesting just happened BRB)
11:45 AM
Who wants to bet he's ^ going on a date soon? :P
alas no
the girl who gave my mom the wrong site ID got engaged XD
my mom told the dad
tis fine, was just amusing cause my mom was teed off
(I really should get a semi anonymous social networking thing for these stories XD)
Yes, before we all get exited when you engage with a poodle .... ;)
There's a few people who would be disappointed if I didn't let them know if things happened XD
I'm just waiting for the wedding announcement as an excuse to fly to Singapore
I assume all SE people will be invited
11:51 AM
Oh, are we all invited?
India actually
well, actually, it would be hilarious to have a whole load of you guys come
We fly to Singapore anyway ...
@JourneymanGeek Sorry, I can't. I have other obligations that day.
11:52 AM
@Tinkeringbell this is fine! I don't know if I have any other obligations that day either!
we could fly to Singapore for the party and follow the wedding progress in India via live tweets
@PaulWhite but ya, there's 2-3 people who went "if I can, I'd totally love to come" ... I'd probably need namebadges to identify ya all
@PaulWhite oh typically there's a reception
but those are boring compared to 3 day weddings
@Tinkeringbell I can make so many jokes on that statement ...
everything's better with name badges anyway
@rene Go for it, I can use the smiles ;)
11:54 AM
"Ok, we need sugar crystals, rose water and name badges on the welcoming table. "
"Why name badges?"
@Tinkeringbell are you getting married that day?
@rene Nope :D
"A bunch of random people I know on the internet are coming"
@rene >_>
will there be elephants
@PaulWhite no
11:55 AM
@PaulWhite If I do come, sure.
@Tinkeringbell it would be an awesome plot twist ...
My brother rated a ... old american car?
@Tinkeringbell ha ha ha
@rene I'm pretty sure we can find some lame excuse to prevent it. Like 'our horoscopes don't match' :P
11:55 AM
Y'all are evil ;p
@Tinkeringbell ... I think we can do better ;p
@Tinkeringbell that is not a lame excuse: that is pretty important ...
@JourneymanGeek I really, really want a steak on the wedding menu :P
or if its the right part of India
11:56 AM
@Tinkeringbell almost certainly not happening.
@JourneymanGeek I know, just kidding ;)
@PaulWhite I feel callled...
(also horoscopes are... lame)
Wondering how that conversation would go... 'Due to some cultural things, we need to serve steaks'... :P
@JourneymanGeek I think you've expressed your frustration with that a few times yeah. That's why I called it my lame excuse ;)
@Tinkeringbell That's it, you're off the list.
Not that you were on it XD
11:58 AM
@JourneymanGeek Cool! India is too hot and humid for me anyway. I wouldn't be a cheerful guest to have at your wedding ;)
name badges with SE flair would be a nice touch
@PaulWhite ... knowing my family? I'd have to print em myself ;p
Hotdog flair!
we should suggest some honeymoon destinations for JG
12:00 PM
Am I correct that IPS.se has disabled tweeting posts?
Try the Sea of Tranquility....
Simlim Tower
@Mithrandir lol
@rene We've never had that, as far as I'm aware
12:00 PM
@rene IPS never had one. None of the sites created in the past few years got an automated Twitter account.
They're kinda useless. A human one is much better.
Iceland might offer a nice change of pace
@Somewhat square is more my thing
@Mithrandir Oh, that should be linked to a twitter account. I assumed it tweeted as SE.
and I think any girl who wants to hang out at SLS is a keeper
12:02 PM
@JourneymanGeek Journeywoman Geek
@Somewhat heh - the proper term of reference is "Hypothetical Future Mrs Geek"
I'll remember that™ :)
@Mithrandir Some witty comments on the question there ...
(also we can drop qualifiers if things work)
12:29 PM
I reactivated my very old unused twitter account
Yeah, soon we will have Meta on Twitter.
Can anyone point out a couple of IPS.se questions in this query that you believe have been on the HNQ list preferable ones with click-bait titles.
12:34 PM
@Mithrandir I read that as data
and was suitably confused
What am I looking at? Protected questions?
@Somewhat Oh definitely. But given who posted that, I don't know if we want that one on the list.
@Tinkeringbell no, questions with lots of votes on the day they were asked
12:36 PM
Ah. I'll say most of them hit HNQ then ;)
@Tinkeringbell that it went on HNQ would be something worth noting
@Tinkeringbell the one that you considered as clickbait...
Okay, I'll see if I can workout something that quatifies clickbait
Thanks so far
Relationships and Datingrelationships.stackexchange.com

Q&A site for people seeking answers to questions about dating and long-term relationships.

Closed after 12 days in beta.

@Somewhat I think there were a few attempts at that
12:42 PM
@Somewhat To be honest... not many of them. I think of clickbait as those titles that go '10 ways to get the girl wearing headphones to talk to you' :P
and the answer: "join our 3-days seminar to help improving your skills in talking to a girl wearing headphones!"
@Tinkeringbell I guess the thing here is. "We want people to see other sites" but "we don't want content that can potentially offend" but "there's no good way we can curate all that short of kicking sites off it"
One way to do that is... rescoping/adding restriction on some topics, like dating... but that's not fixing the root issue
@Somewhat You don't need one though, you're doing that right now ;) :P
@Somewhat We got that, after that particular user showed us that that was going to be a problem. We are now really, really strict on questions that have as their 'goal' a possible date.
@JourneymanGeek A title can be edited.
@Tinkeringbell it can
12:47 PM
'we don't want content that can potentially offend'... Ouch, that is going to shut down a lot of SE.
on the other hand, an eye catching/clickbaity title..
@Tinkeringbell well, that's the strictest interpretation of what happened
@JourneymanGeek and some users defending the title because it's more amusing, like the fart digestive problem in airplane...
(note: and certainly it got a meta discussion)
@JourneymanGeek I guess so. I expressed the sentiment before, but if I'm now in charge of a corner of the internet where only one side can get offended and 'needs to be protected', I am going to seriously rethink my participation.
@Tinkeringbell :(
@JourneymanGeek So far, I'm sticking around. I'll take this as one mistake, perhaps also a little from the side of IPS, but certainly also a lot on the tweeter and a bit on SE's reaction. But it's hugely frustrating to see a women tweet 'this guy is making me feel unwelcoming' when a guy asks a questions about women making them feel uncomfortable in real life getting the reaction it did.
Also... the general 'people' in that tweet didn't help either. Like she's speaking for everyone :(
12:52 PM
but that's rhetorical trick
That's part of the frustration I guess
I guess so. but where were we? I think we went from discussing titles to ranting about Twitter again ;)
Twitter on the Tavern on the Twitter?
(time to stop myself from spouting nonsense by having a dinner...)
loser loser twitter dinner?
@Tinkeringbell We did have a whole bunch of people quitting IPS over that very sentiment, btw.
1:00 PM
@Magisch If you're talking about people I think you're talking about, those people were often outright rude or abusive in their point of view, and pushing them on questions where those views were entirely inappropriate, calling their bashing of people 'frame-challening'
eh, no
the more subtler end of that
there were those you mean, but there were also a bunch that felt "both sides" weren't being treated equitably
@Magisch We've tried to engage those people, it usually came down to what I described above... they wanted to push their views on other questions, where there wasn't any place for them.
They wanted to use IPS to fight a fight about right or wrong in the world.
@Tinkeringbell I guess that's one of the 'nicer' things about modding a technical site
there's usually less of these
@JourneymanGeek True, and although I can get how frustrating it is, and how 'unequal' it may seem if there's loads of questions that don't match your own worldview... That doesn't give you an excuse to give crappy answers to those questions pushing your own judgment of right and wrong on the people asking it.
@Tinkeringbell hardly
But but
there's clearly and absolutely wrong answers on SU
and some folks might decide its fine on yours for some reason
1:17 PM
@JourneymanGeek Yep. The problem is that those people, when we tell them 'That's not a good frame challenge, how is this going to help someone buying women's clothes as a male in a regular store'... they get very, very upset.
@Tinkeringbell sounds almost like you needed a CM to yell at you ;p
(happened on SR)
@JourneymanGeek Heh. I've been yelled at. IPS isn't the easiest site to have on the network. And on IPS, while we're trying to treat both sides 'equitably' like magisch said... that doesn't mean both sides will end up being represented equally. There might always be more questions asked by people on the one end of a spectrum, from one particular culture.
@Tinkeringbell naw, not you
(on SR, we kinda had a CM driven meta post over scope)
actually made things easier once we got over the shock
@Tinkeringbell on meta
No one reads chat
1:21 PM
@JourneymanGeek Heh, that resulted in a couple of meta posts though :P
ah better?
(By regulars, not CM's, to be fair)
That extra weight would be handy
Not that I am calling our CMs fat ;)
@JourneymanGeek We have a lot of CM posts on IPS Meta, if you don't look too closely at the timestamps :P
1:28 PM
ah lol
Well, IPS is one of those topics that need a little more curation.
I think that, WP and travel give us our most.. "the hell?" moments
1:42 PM
oh maaaan
You are in for a treat
see his questions
Ah, thanks
2:06 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-latin answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (51): Running dot net application as daemon by jack berry on unix.SE
2 hours later…
3:46 PM
@JourneymanGeek WP.... oh, WorkPlace...
thought WordPress instead..
3:59 PM
@ShadowWizard I just sawit o
damn mobile. Saw it once on one machine. Don't know why.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Does "ifconfig wlan0 dhcp status" work for Android? by isiah on android.SE
1 hour later…
5:18 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): Retrieve Windows 10 product key from hard drive by Kamal uddin on superuser.com
also, when trying to access your link I receive 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons (I am accessing from a country within EU). Please, include the relevant details in the post as citations. — Alexei yesterday
HTTP 451. Wow.
2 hours later…
7:06 PM
Would any SO moderator mind adding The_Lava_Weilder to this chatroom with write access? They don't have the 20 rep needed to chat yet, and the comments are getting too long. I can't because only SO moderators can add people with <20 rep to SO chatrooms.
@JohnLocke you better flag then for a mod in that room. Here you won't find them.
@rene Good suggestion, I hadn't thought of that.
Not sure if a mod will grant that btw.
7:22 PM
@rene If it's on just that one room and they seem to want the help, I don't see why not.
I'm only managing your expectations, YMMV
If it doesn't work out, I can always use a third party chat service or wait for them to get 20 rep.
1 hour later…
8:37 PM
ugh, can't sleeeeeep....
1 hour later…
9:57 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in body (49): adobe dreamweaver можно ли так? ✏️ by user313095 on ru.stackoverflow.com
10:57 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (80): How fast is the Earth-Sun distance changing by orion9k on physics.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive title detected (55): Why @jdwolf is acting like such a dumb fuck? by chzzh on superuser.com
That last onnnneeee
11:21 PM
in fact, I'm feeling so fresh since midnight ago...
02:00 - 11:0011:00 - 00:00

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