@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard cause SE network is tooooo buggy :-D

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard bigger doesn’t mean better :)

@TimPost hey man, I found the ongoing deprecated meme! amazing, isn't it?

Haha, really, that got "deprecated"?

@Bart yeah, death treats are no longer acceptable

yeah, there's a reason I didn't just suggest an edit myself, would've probably edited what Tim added in out :P

As if they were in the first place...

@alexolut tru dat!

@Tinkeringbell Maybe SO should invest in some good soft padding material to make sure nobody gets hurt by anything on the network. Because boy are we all fragile.

@Bart as in many cases, those few who hate fun ruin the fun for all others. That's not new.

And now with the WW and CoC, it just became x1000 more visible.

But meh.... Tavern still exists, which is a good surprise!

hush, we're in danger

(well, without Shog it's much less fun here.... but still...)

I've seen comments which suggest that the Tavern is at risk as well.

Comments? Try flags... here in this room, and messages asking people to stop joking with each other.

@Bart Don't misunderstand me. If this is a joke made between two people that know each other very well, it's funny. If you're new, and don't know... It's better not to joke with new people

I think it's okay to deprecate that one, plenty left!

@Bart I haven't really been here before the whole welcoming wagon started rolling, has this room changed much since?

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I'm still seeing jokes in here though ;)

@Tinkeringbell yes it did

@Tinkeringbell the room goes through phases. It has changed over the years. I seem to have missed a large part where major offense was caused by things said in this room, so I'm somewhat fuzzy on that. (And if I cause offense somehow, or jeopardize the existence of this room, I'd appreciate it if people would notify me)

@Tinkeringbell maybe, but personally I now think "hmm... will it be flagged?" whenever posting a joke. I still do it, but pretty sure that over time when flags will start flying around and accepted, jokes will be all gone.

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Have you seen flags flying around and such? Because I don't really feel I see much jokes being flagged... I have nothing to compare it to, but I'm not removing jokes on a daily basis

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard @Bart I think the house rules on RA are the platonic ideal for me. If something offends or makes folk feel actually really uncomfortable - we should be able to voice it out and deal with it

Of course I'm careful with what I joke about too... I have contact with people outside of SE chatrooms for the more abrasive kind of jokes... But I wouldn't have posted those a year ago either

@Tinkeringbell there was that one flag that caused Shog to leave the Tavern. That's more than enough on its own... and since it "worked", well... can't see a reason why it won't happen again. :(

Since the ROs are kind of the primary point of moderation in many cases - if you guys think we're being too hard, let us know.

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Got the impression that wasn't the flag, but the pings

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard it was, imo a pattern of behavior

And something we failed to handle effectively

@Tinkeringbell I don't think so... or maybe the combination.

I don't want to go 'hey, here's a list of things we want you not to do'

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Maybe ... The realization that that flag wasn't handled as it was supposed to be, because of that underlying behavioral pattern...

@JourneymanGeek Actually that works sometimes, you know!

I know a lot of y'all are adults and want to be treated like that

And trust going both ways means we can just tell folks when those lines are crossed first

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Starred! Hint: a chat mod should pin that star so that in a few years time, we can reminisce over "the good old times" when I could call Shadow a dirty [insert your favourite insult here] without getting flagged...

um, I don't think that was ever acceptable

Unless it was about socks

@Fabby Well... Have they showered since?

@EKons What? Calling someone an [expletive]?

(If not, dirty is probably still accurate ;) )

@Fabby Yeah... That wasn't even acceptable when I joined, so unless good old times means years and years ago....

As long as it stays an undefined variable, no harm gets done.

It's only when the variable gets a non-funny value assigned that it stops being funny.

@Fabby someone tried that on RA

@Tinkeringbell You would be offended if I would call you a silly [insert yout own favorite word here]?

We felt it was unfunny and he was a bit of a pain.

@Fabby I'd call you a pancake right back ;) but I'm Dutch

My standards probs don't count here ;)

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, no good insults in Dutch!

not like in Italian!

@Fabby opgedroogde druipsnor? ;)

@Tinkeringbell :D :D :D

@Tinkeringbell oh I am certain people are mad with the rules of pinging

@Fabby calling someone a dirty [expletive] sure is

Something like that. or "Smeerlap" = "Greasy cloth"!

Not realising it was a bit of a last ditch attempt to save a situation

Silly is a bit more... Nice ... Than dirty ;)

@Fabby pin lasts only for 14 days and after that there's no way to know if a message was pinned or not. :)

@JourneymanGeek the "rules of pinging" is something unique for each person...

@EKons You just called me a dirty [expletive] and I don't mind!

is that philosophical or something? ...

@EKons long story

@Tinkeringbell one can shower and still be dirty.... :D

@EKons I think I can think of a situation to use it where it won't be an insult but a good natured poke ;)

OK, maybe the joke went over everyone's head.

Mostly related to having a dirty mind

@Fabby and got back at you? ;)

@Fabby Nah, I had to lift my feet for it to pass, that's how low it was :P

@Fabby or was unfunny :p

@Tinkeringbell almost as low as limbo jokes?

As long as you don't actually use an expletive , using [expletive] is funny!!

@Fabby's joke? ^ ;)

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard :D :D :D

@Fabby I'd use a whatever instead of expletive, but sure

@JourneymanGeek lower :P

@Tinkeringbell lower is only the floor!

@Tinkeringbell Never heard that one before, but going to remember it...

:-) :-) :-)

Or maybe only one's socks which are dirty anyway.... :D

I think the most important thing to remember when it comes to jokes is that if an outsider reads them, they should be able to understand it is a joke and not feel afraid of saying hi out of fear of having to handle the same jokes

For the record: Currently not wearing any socks...

Wearing both socks and shoes to work today!

@Tinkeringbell That's why I add so many smileys when I talk.

@Fabby bit too much info, thanks. :P

I'm all dressed up :P

@Tinkeringbell Wow! Classy today! ;-) >:-) ;-)

@Fabby the evil frowns don't help :P

@Tinkeringbell They're grins...

@Tinkeringbell Carnaval?

Also, i read a Dutch article on etiquette that suggested no more than 2 smileys per message ;)

(::)

:) (:

@rene Almost Halloween! I love that day, I won't have to wear any makeup!

:):(:

@Tinkeringbell Whew! Luckily I'm not Dutch!

@Tinkeringbell :D :D :D

@Tinkeringbell the Dutch do etiquette now?

@Bart Yep! Apparently.

A lot has changed since I left

Nu.nl has a weekend series going for etiquettes on different situations

@Bart Or a lot has improved because you left? ;)

I thought the entire Dutch etiquette could be summed up by 2 words: going Dutch

@Fabby that's an urban legend!

what was that?

yes?

@Taryn I was about to ask you the same!

called dropping something on my keyboard

your head?

no comment

@rene :D

happens to me all the time

@Taryn oh, and I almost imagined you as a terrible coder :P

@Taryn Well, that's one way to drop into a conversation...

@rene You mean you're typing away and sumkdfjlkefv:kdw, =:nfv:;,

must have been rather large

@Fabby yes, and it compiles afterwards.

@rene LOL

Commit, push and walk away

@rene You mean, it compiles using the more compiler.

I need a smoke! BRB.

@Fabby noooo! Stay!

We could be so much more productive in this project if they gave up smoking ...

@rene When one of my coworkers gave up smoking, we all still went outside regularly to eat fruit/snacks/drink coffee

The productivity was better off with 1 smoking co-worker, as we didn't all go back then ;)

@Tinkeringbell Back already: when I suck, I suck...

@rene not true: I remember the smoker's network: while we were having a smoke together, the guy on the floor, the PM and the director all met and actually talked busines...

@Fabby see, this is where the dirty whatever comes in...

More than one problem has been solved while smoking!

@Tinkeringbell On my cigarette, right?

Yes, and I'm that PM that calls you on your cell pretending I urgently need you to get you back at your desk ...

@Fabby More than one has been created too ;)

@Tinkeringbell (but I like the way you are thinking... :P )

@rene I'm a PM too. >:-)

@Fabby People have ruined me :(

@Tinkeringbell I really can't remember problems being created while smoking... Brought up? Yes! Created? No!

:P :-) :P

I've definitely lost some of my innocence to some people I met on SE!

@Fabby mainly referring to health problems ;)

@Tinkeringbell You don't sound like a ruin to me... *0:-)

@Tinkeringbell Ah, well, yes: I know what I'm going to die of: lung cancer.

@Fabby Would tainted be a better choice of words?

But we have Euthanasia (though the Dutch beat us by 7 days passing their law first!)

@Tinkeringbell reminds me of this:

@Fabby I wouldn't be too happy about it, but whatever ;)

(Warning! googling!!!)

Too slow

Still not fast enough

Are we there yet?

@Tinkeringbell Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

(I should get my euthanasia papers sorted now)

@Tinkeringbell "some"?

@Fabby won't open. I'm in the middle of nowhere with this train and the 4g is worthless

NS has wifi

@rene just as crappy

I'm better off on data

Yes.

I could barely chat

@rene Yeah, not everyone is as <whatever> as all of you!

@rene once I'm nearer to home, it gets better :)

It's the part between Wijhe and Zwolle that's all farmland and has crappy coverage

The cows aren't complaining...

This cow is

I get bored without internet in the trains

@Tinkeringbell :D :D :D

I didn't mean to say that!

@Fabby Sure, that's why I did it for you ;)

>:-) ;-) :-)

cv-pls discussion Not about Stack Exchange Network software How to solve Norton Antivirus Installation issue on Window 10 PC? - user401966‎ - 2018-09-13 16:07:36Z

maybe a set up for a spam seed?

@rene you're being Dutch :P 'no, We rather not' :D

thanks!

@rene redaing...

!!/report meta.stackexchange.com/a/315418/158100

@rene Spam.

yep, my intuition didn't fail this time

I've had to flag for moderator a few times after some of my SPAM flags were declined...

They're getting very good nowadays.

hmm, user self deleted. Interesting

@rene that's new...

yes, I annotated the MS record, just in case

I heard a meme got deprecated... if it was on Anime.SE, I'd reform it into "Unlimited S Work" instead...

that said... it's already late... and I should rest my eyes...

@πάνταῥεῖ that is not spam

With a phone number, sure?

well, yeah. still.

That's called "a desperate student", not "spammer" :/

@Somewhat Also, we got a new one today to replace the deprecated one ;) so it's not so bad?

OK

@Shadow Sorry, I was too tired to respond yesterday. After a while of thinking why I believe that guy is great, I figured that's a very broad question, and futile to discuss here. He's still quite active and agile regarding the actual politics and what's going on in the world. You might want to follow them at twitter and watch recent stances and interview videos to grasp what I like of them:

@Shadow You didn't answer my question BTW.

And BTW here's another great philosopher active in these days I know from my professional IT backgrounds:

@πάνταῥεῖ ah, memories

I am also quite jealous he's residing at Hawaii ATM.

Still a cool guy :)

FIRE!!!!!

Lots of sirens :/

→ 10 messages moved to Chimney

@Tinkeringbell be careful ...

@rene I'm safe in bed

It's two streets down

Doesn't look too bad

hmm, still scary

I know. I got my plushie fish ;)

twitter.com/Stefanuzz/status/1040322119777832961?s=09 Not much smoke, let's hope that means not much fire either

Hmm, I'm more old school but I guessed the "regio" right: p2000-online.net/ijssellandf.html

@rene heh... We use 112meldingen for it

same source but I like the vintage look as that whole P2000 is vintage ....

They have the trucks from Hattemerbroek out there as well, they're not shown on p2000 though

And I never understand why the OvD has to come from another province

They probably just join because they like a "goeie fik"

Hehehe. Fire is out, officers are investigating, arson is suspected

A "regio" is not a "provincie"

@rene I have a firefighter for an uncle... They're crazy!

@rene still. Why does the OvD have to come from Zwolle? ;)

@Tinkeringbell yeah, my dad was on the "vrijwillige" (when he was still young)

@Tinkeringbell because Zwolle is awesome

@rene my uncle started there too. He knows how to start a good bonfire now ;)

@rene it isn't

If you say so.

It's... Just so empty. Lots of empty storefronts, has some problem areas where you'd rather not live... And have you seen the Fundatie?

Also, the station has a weird layout

Uh, no I didn't see the Fundatie. Where is that?

@rene A museum near the city centre: google.nl/…

Got this weird egg added to an otherwise beautiful building!

Oh, I might have seen that, assuming it was the mosque ...

@rene see, bad egg

:D

?

word => world

@πάνταῥεῖ what question? As for Chomsky, well... as you said we better discuss this elsewhere in more length, just wanted something quick. :)

@Tinkeringbell heh.... reminds me... I fought actual fire once in my life when I was 19 or 20 as part of army service. We (whole unit) were called to aid in fighting a big fire in a field. We were given water and wet mops and put on the margins of the fire, told to try and keep it from spreading.

It was scary, though the firefighters themselves were in the middle of the fire and did most of the work.

Anyway... fire is nasty!

casting Fireball spell to demonstrate ;)

@NotThatGuy didn't you see the site logo?? lol

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Or maybe a fascinating board game. My brain is too tired to make sense of images.

@NotThatGuy buh... you caused me to go over the HNQ list and see one with anus, Thanks. :P

If anyone here can remember any discussion on meta.se about the possibility of reducing/lowering the daily reputation cap of 200 rep that one can earn from upvotes, I'd love to pick your brain. This consideration has come up in discussions on math.se, in the one of its chatrooms: CRUDE. I'm eager to learn whether any similar questions have been proposed on MSE.

Note: I am aware of suggestions on this site to set a cap at 100 for rep earned from upvotes on one answer. My particular concern is that "reaching the cap" on MSE is an obsession among a number of users, who, accordingly, answer the good, but mainly the bad and the ugly. My thoughts are that if the daily cap of rep earned from upvotes was, say, set at 100, the frantic desperation to answer anything among compulsive cappers will give way...

...will give way to a less frenzied, more measured approach to consider prioritizing higher-quality questions than "do it for me" questions that currently and relentlessly get answered by the leaders in monthly and quarterly rep.

@πάνταῥεῖ is this guy for real? 157 score on SO and a rant that he doesn't get more rep?

He's been a member for 2 months! (shakes head)

Kids nowadays. Appeal to authority! My arse!

@Magisch Belated welcome, @Mithrandir!

@amWhy That wouldn't probably help. The amount of rep you can get from accepts is unlimited, so answering the questions would still have a big draw, even after the rep cap was lowered.

It also penalizes users who are actually doing good work and their progress up the rep chain because of a very tiny handful of users who are misbehaving. That's... not really the best way to set site policy.

In fact... it'd probably have a bigger draw, since those easy pickings, low quality, no effort questions are the only source of rep.

@Catija The only alternative I've suggested on MSE is introducing incentives/rep points for the many users who spend so much time keeping the site functioning (editing, reviewing, flagging, closing, deleting, discussing things on meta), while the rep-farmers of the site rush to gain as much rep (and accepts) to cap and more than cap each and every day. Don't get me wrong; I don't see the groups as necessarily disjoint.

But the work of those who contribute in what might seem like invisible ways make it viable, in the first place, for those who seek rep from upvotes/accepts, exclusively, even have a well-maintained site on which to do that.

@amWhy :)

@Catija apologies, my use of MSE just now is slang for math.se, on that website. I realize in the bigger picture, MSE refers to meta.se.

@Mithrandir Good to see you here!

That all comes with downsides, too... rep farmers will start robo-reviewing or reviewing without actually knowing what they're supposed to do... do you really want the people you're bothered by who are answering bad questions more active in voting to keep those bad questions open?... Similarly, on meta... rewarding people for participating there... how you define constructive meta participation... it's complicated. I'm not saying there aren't options... it's... complex.

@amWhy No worries. I knew what you meant.

@Catija All good points too. My only other side-thought was the possibility ofmaintaining reputation as is (I call this "small letter r", but creating a separate measure and credit called q (for quality).) Every user would have a running reputation (r) attached to their profile, as they traditionally have. But introducing another measure attached to every users, called q. But I realize this all is far more complex than just offering suggestions.

It's very difficult to have an objective measure of quality, which would be necessary for such a thing.

@Mithrandir I think it can be done as well as current reputation, which purports to be an objective measure of site "contribution", irregardless how it's gained.

How? Who decides what is "quality"? I have really stupid answers I've written that have 100+ upvotes. They're not high-quality, they're just popular.

Upvotes are meant, at some level, to indicate quality. Reputation is kinda intended to be a measure of the quality that you've contributed. In practice, of course, it doesn't always work that way.

@Catija My concern is precisely the fact that users are compared to one another based only on rep earned, and higher rep, as you know, gains more privileges. That is all well and good. I will accept "reputation" as is (and I've had a few high-yield answers with+200 upvotes too). I am suggesting another measure to help attach to busy, active contributors who do not answer, or limit their answers, in a community-wide effort to affirm the importance seen in such work.

@Mithrandir That's precisely the point. So don't be asking me to come up with a 100% objective measure without the problems rep currently has in terms of purporting to measure "quality of contributions." But I'm sure such a second measure, assigned to each user, the exact workings of awarding of merit, the development of criteria for what merits merit, the development of software to recognize when such criteria have been met, and respond with awarding merit... will take time...

...not to mention it would need to be tested...

@Mithrandir I understand that the most viable option would be to design a second form of contribution recognition. (I've said that prior, here). Not to try to change the current "rep" design, but to add a second measure of contribution attached to each and every user.

I do realize the possibility of earning "badges", a good number of them awarded on the base of sheer number of answers (questions?), and rep gained in a tag. I've earned gold in virtually all review queues back by or before 2014. I now review for no reward or credit, recognition, or badge to earn whatsoever, just because I care enough for the site. Is there no way we can recognize the stalwart users who consistently, frequently, benefit this site, (including mods),

who aren't ever listed on leader boards, and who go largely unnoticed, perhaps even disrespected for lack of more rep than they might have if they chased rep every day, all day?

Anyway, I don't want to dominate this chatroom. It's my first time here, I believe. I think it's time for a beer! I'm in a tavern, aren't I? :-)

Morning