cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313350/…

^if anyone is on electronics.SE, needs a rollback

user blanked question.

→ 3 messages moved to Chimney - housekeeping

I forgot this Chrome at office is version 68, and thus, no dots on pinned tabs (this story again!?)

Oh yeah.. last alternative: enable desktop notification then turn sound notification to "all my rooms"...

morning

Apparently it didn't help, oh well :)

morning too~

Nothing like strolling into the 31C warm office at 8am

gonna be a fun day

I'm going to spend 5.5 hours of today sitting in a closed metal box on a pair of really long metal rods with no human settlements anywhere close to where I'll be, for the sole purpose of exiting it at a different place than where I entered it.

Someone around for MSO deletion: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/371732/578411

@JohnDvorak train rides are fun

Yup.

I'll hit Bratislava at 16 o'clock, expecting 32C at 40% humidity and not a cloud in sight

sounds awesome.

Bratislava that is

It's just a layover. Heading for Podhajska ultimately.

Is that a holiday destination? Or do you need to work there?

Holiday

I'm actually scheduled to stay in Bratislava for just ten minutes before heading off.

That doesn't look unpleasant

They aren't cheap though

@JohnDvorak if you want to do cheap then you need to go backpacking and camp in the wild, hunt for your own food

hunting often needs an expensive permit

And even more expensive healthcare :P

If you're bound to shoot in your foot you better go to a Spa/wellness resort, yes ...

@JohnDvorak hah, jokes on you, going to the hospital is free here

delv-pls 20K exact meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313350/… /cc @Bart @Glorfindel @ShadowWizard @TravisJ

@rene exect and kaboom

Found new coins!

@ShadowWizard needs to go site by site. Still: gone ;)

@JNat thanks!! Remind me again, you also need to manually delete the network profile itself, or does it get deleted all by itself when all accounts nuked?

(think you told me once, but it's not consistent)

@JNat you're Just a Natural at this, :P

@ShadowWizard the former. I was told once that the latter would be the future, but not sure it is yet

@JNat oh, so I'm pretty sure they are not auto deleted.

@rene not sure that was your intention, but author of that is now suspended. :)

@ShadowWizard is their value tied to the price of a McDonald's Big Mac?

@Derpy hehe, so you heard about it too! Yup, their actual value if half the price of Big Mac. Here in Israel, 17 NIS. :)

(around $5)

'was gonna go on a tangent of how 5$ for a bigmac is pretty expensive but then I remembered that thing has calories for half a day

Not a big fan of Big Mac, it's too small for me. (the meat loaf itself)

@Magisch $5 is half its price

It costs 34 NIS which are around $10

Only with the coin it will cost 17. :)

now that's pretty expensive

And you get one coin when you buy at full price.

@Magisch yeah, Israel isn't cheap, in general.

I bought produce and eggs to cook and some chicken to freeze today for a total of 12 eur

will last 4-5 days

e.g. cars cost here at least double than USA, many times triple and much more.

You can't find a decent car here (fitting for family, not a mini car) in less than 30k USD

Good thing I'm using a bicycle then

@Magisch here that's the price of 1kg chicken meat.

Eggs cost around 1 NIS for one egg.

whot

Do you also earn comparably more?

What's your rent like?

@Magisch not really, average salary in Israel is around 8k NIS

8k a year?

or month?

@Magisch sky high, and always in the rise... these days decent house fitting for family with kids is at least 5k NIS per month

it's month right?

@Magisch oh, month, yeah.

I have a small apartment which is dirt cheap

So 70% of the salary is already burned on rent...

dirt cheap even for the local market and this is a cheap region to begin with

but you're alone so it's easy.

rent is I think 12% of my salary right now

That's pretty good.

though turns out I don't really have expensive hobbies so I can save quite a bit

Food is cheap (the food I like anyways) and so are games on steam

At least you pay for games, others only download pirated copies. :)

@ShadowWizard not my intent but works for me

@rene good! :D

@ShadowWizard I'm a creature of convenience

@Magisch meaning?

Pirating stuff a) rarely works for online games and b) is more work then buying it most of the time

especially when I can buy high quality games for under 10$ a pop on a sale

@Magisch nice

@Magisch to be fair, I moved to consoles because buying stuff on pc was becoming increasingly harder, to the point that pirated software usually would have less drawbacks than the original DRM filled version. And since I didn't want to support piracy... here I am now

@Derpy We play different kinds of games then

> Sorry, now Diablo is online only because we need to push the real money marketplace ensure no one cheats and ruin your offline experience. Also, to improve your experience we will include this DRM that mess your dvd player drivers and blocks dvd burning apps. But it doesn't end here: as a special bonus we are also including a free limited number of activations that totally has nothing to do with stopping you from reselling the game as used when you finish it or get bored of it.

Game Market 101.

Not completely different on consoles, but at least they haven't access to some of the most irritating features. YET

ehh

So far, I didn't had to "activate" any console game.

some time they try to trick me into buying things with Day-One-DLC-That-Is-Not-On-The-Disk-But-Instead-Requires-A-Single-Use-Code-That-‌​You-Can-Not-Resell but that's it mostly.

How come it wasn't detected??? ^

Two links, ending with a link, key words... is Smokey borked?

Smokey caught it by 9 reasons, but he(it?) was too lazy to push it here, compared to a brown fox...

@SomewhatMemorableName no, the spam was live for 12 minutes.

No way Smokey reported it automatically.

in the meantime, somewhere else...

Just discovered that the Kotobukiya made MLP action figure is now three separate action figures.

@Mithrandir huh? Omg.... think I saw 12 seconds ago and thought it's 12 minutes ago. :/

My bad!

@Derpy The bottom line is publishers want all game sales to be new game sales

If that is guaranteed (e.g no used games) then they're willing to go a lot lower in price, too

It's the reason why you can grab 60+ $ games for under 10 a year after release in a steam sale

Cause from a used game sale, they see 0$

looked up NieR:Automata's price.... hmm, nope!

oh, yeah, it also depends on the country...

whoa expensive

@Magisch to be fair, Amazon drops prices on console games too.

@Derpy I wanted to buy Horizon: Zero Dawn the other day

and it was still 55$

GameStop, on the other hand......

If that was a steam game the GotY edition would have been out & 15 bucks max on a sale

Last game I bought: amazon.com/Ni-Kuni-II-Revenant-Kingdom-PlayStation/dp/… ($30)

@Magisch 29€ around here, Complete Edition.

@ShadowWizard king edition.

ok, this is too good not to share.

probably more fitting for Anime, but...

What about the prickles?

@AnneDaunted those are needed to keep him angry and thus more powerful (because in anime anger=strength)

Particularly when it comes to Vegeta.

insert over 9000 joke

Thanks for the explanation! I'm totally clueless about anime.

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@Catija The seasoning? Ah, nope, you must be talking about the other one.

@Derpy Super Saiyan Rose... literally...

> "Huh? Pink? Why is it pink?" — Goku confused about the transformation's appearance.

When I write a post on my blog, on that day it gets 1K+ views. Rest of the days, it is <50. Here's a pyramid from ad earnings report.

didn't wrote a post after 24th

@Derpy what's that? I didn't really look into it to be honest.

This is the king edition

this is the collector edition instead

there is also a limited edition that has less bonus content (only the artbook and the metal game case I think)

as you can see, they made a very weird decision there.

@Derpy oh, meaning it arrives with swag? Nice, but not for me... I'm only into the game itself. :)

The collector and the king edition both have exclusive content

like, the collector has the "music box" you can see in the middle (which spins and plays the game theme)

the collector has the mini-figures.

@Derpy could be really cool if the box was connected to the game somehow, detect what songs you collected, and play only those. Or let you play it via the game. :D

Lego Dimension???

@SomewhatMemorableName hmm? What?

How is lego related to any of this? puzzled

@ShadowWizard ^ the first game had the physical version of the Wizard Companion book.

@ShadowWizard lego Dimension

@Derpy what is it? Where did you see it?

@Derpy and how is it related to what we talked about before?

^ this is lego dimension. It is a videogame. You see the portal in the figure? They sell special lego figures than can be placed on the portal.

Doing so "summons" the figure in the game.

Oh, so @Some gave it as example to what I said about swag connecting to the game?

Pretty hard to make that leap without knowing the game.... :P

basically yes

it is the same as Disney Infinity, Skylanders, the Nintendo amiibo figures and so on

I know exactly 0 of the above ^

:)

To be honest... my knowledge of games is very limited, never considered myself a true gamer.

When I play a "full scale" game on PC/PS I try to do all side quests, but that's about it: I don't play the game again, I don't buy related items, and not even downloading any DLC.

Me neither... more of a watcher than a player though...

Can say I'm a.... Vanila Gamer, perhaps?

@SomewhatMemorableName Watcher can't really play... unless you mean you actually watch others play? :)

Like, have been watching 3 full playthroughs of Life is Strange and countless of Undertale

@SomewhatMemorableName watching where? YouTube or IRL friends?

both, but mostly YouTube

heh. I played Undertale for a while but... stopped. Something didn't "connect" for me.

It's not a bad game, just... not my taste.

(got it for free from a friend as a gift)

@Catija Since you are a CM now, does it make sense to still list you among room owners?

I reached pretty far (I think) but when the puzzles became harder I just didn't find myself wanting to complete them.

Maybe it's kind of a... cult game? Like Yume Nikki, or Stanley's Parable

(the latter is not really cult, but... 4th wall breaker)

maybe, yeah...

So you didn't play anything all by yourself? @Some

All mentioned above? No...

I did buy Undertale... only for the OST though...

@Derpy To be clear: That is not me.

I played FF13, Ori, Borderlands 1 & 2 (trying to finish Pre-Sequel now), and~ Crash Bandicoot Trilogy

And, oh.. Portal 1 & 2, Talos, and... add Antichamber to the list for fun...

That's not so bad!

So you're not just a Watcher. :D

@SomewhatMemorableName yume nikki.... you mean the original right? Not the "remake" I hope.

@Derpy yep.

Ao Oni is fine too

and... SCP - Containment Breach. I guess the only 2 games that still scare me...

have fun with Yomawari then.

or maybe Fragile. But the later is more "I will sadden you deeply" than something scary.

Hmm.. interesting...

Warning: red level disclaimer. Fragile is VERY sad.

And by "sad" I mean something like "Grave of the Fireflies" level of sad.

hi

Reminds me of high-school science report: does the measurement look too good to be true? → redo the measurement

'Does it look hot enough?' No? Change the units and move the axes.

Summer sounds better in Kelvin.

change from linear to logarithmic

@SomewhatMemorableName lol, we should be pollsters:)

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> you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of Stack Overflow

Never knew a Stack Overflow had 2 sides

@rene It has two ends and, some might say, two faces.

'Please read the help pages, take the SO tour, read about how to ask good questions, and learn how to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable Example.' [meh, another no-effort, POS homework dump. Why do they bother? Do they think we are too stupid to notice?]

@TravisJ Do you have any ideas on how we could get tag wikis more exposure? Going back on meta and notes and stuff we've tried at least a dozen linking strategies because they are useful, but tend to get the same visibility as the back page of the business section of a printed newspaper that only retired people read (to put it bluntly).

With new nav options and stuff I've been keeping a 'nose' out for placing them better and integrating them more, but nothing has really jumped out as inspiring yet.

That's always been the problem, making them more discoverable. I'm even open to a badge for discovering them and doing a few things once you had (that wouldn't cause annoyance in the review queues)

@TimPost ...stupid idea of the day: when you ask your first question in a tag, you get to review the tag wiki to make sure you know how to use the tag if you're below a certain rep level?

as in question ask screen -> press "ask question" -> tag wiki screen pops up for a tag -> confirm use of tag button pressed -> question asked.

that would make them "matter" and get them more exposure...though probably not the kind you're looking for.

Could do some more deliberate stuff to at least show the excerpt of the info page if it exists in the new wizard interface, hmmm.

run tag ads

Or offer a slot in the hot meta posts for a tag needs love slot

Adopt-a-tag, not a bad idea.

But don't let those C++ followers near the PHP tag ...

That would probably result in a middle size catastrophy :3

@TimPost I think that the excerpt gets a ton of visibility and I wonder if that's not harming the wiki itself. I've been really surprised at how huge and detailed some of the wikis are on Cooking and I've never even thought to look at them. By the same token, many of them are empty or useless, so we don't give users a reliable experience when looking at them.

Maybe we should rigorously burninate all tags without a tag wiki description?

meh

@πάνταῥεῖ I would rather address this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/313486/…

Maybe you should call it documentation in the left-nav bar and then just link to tags

@TimPost Starting simple... At present, it seems to be more hidden than it used to be. The tag hover element doesn't include a link anymore to the tag wiki, making it impossible to even get there from the tags page without clicking through and finding a second link. That also closes the door on getting there with one click from anywhere else the tags occur. Thus, the only entrance is when you click on the tag to see the list of questions and then find the "learn more..." link (oddly named imo).

Just from this angle, it would make far more sense for the "learn more..." link to actually occurr at the end of the abstract in both the hover menu and when on the page in the questions tagged page. Beyond that, another option would be to offer the most prominent tag as the hovered tag menu in the sidebar on questions, just above hot questions. These would be very simple first steps towards trying to get more exposure to the tag wikis.

In an even broader sense, since I think the tag wikis are an extremely good place for information, making an actual wiki interface page that you can search in, and expanding the tag wikis to have linkable sub sections with insertable examples from documentation would make an awesome place for simple information. Something like that.

clarification: occur inline at the end of the abstract (as in on the same line as the end of the text similar to how some paragraphs have a more... expansion).

..maybe on SO documentation can even someday be redone in the tag wikis.

it's too bad documentation was sunsetted, i really liked it, even though there was a lot that could've been improved.

@heather yeah, I really think there is an opportunity there

The rep system was quite a weirdo thing.

agree

yeah but without rep being involved only things like java and javascript would get the proper attention

Creating a place for that type of information was amazing though. That information needed somewhere to live and it was getting generated to some degree.

@KevinB eh...i wrote a bunch of LaTeX documentation even though I got no rep for it.

I think tag wikis could be a good place for the examples to live.

if that was incorporated into tag wikis? that would be awesome.

and it would mean documentation is auto-rolled out to every site in the network.

I'm not saying no one would do it without rep, just that without it, you still have the same problem

@heather Yeah :D

the things that need it the most are the ones least likely to get it

@KevinB +2 for tag wiki edits. Not really a lot, and easily abused by making a ton of small edits, but.

I don't think tag wiki edits get abused that much.

you'd have to get a better handle on the plagiarism deal as @Catija said

@TravisJ Me too

Tag wikis, or examples in them, wouldn't need rep to generate content or interest.

@TravisJ not currently, b/c nobody really knows about them =P

With rep rewards people were at least incentivized to add new documentation, but there was so much just regurgitated documentation

@heather har har :P

anyway, there's people who copy-paste wikipedia ledes into tag wikis and expect rep (and sometimes get it), so.

@KevinB some of it was kinda crap, yeah. The voting system was screwed up imho.

there was little to no reason for javascript to be documented with SO documentation

On Stack Overflow there is a good amount of users keeping an eye on wikipedia plagiarism in tag wikis.

or jquery

so it was hard to separate out the wheat from the chaff.

or any number of other popular and well documented languages

But tag wikis might be a too narrow entry point for real documentation wikis. We'll never be able to beat cppreference.com for eaxample. And we probably shouldn't even try so.

@Kevin - You are getting off topic though.

how?

what's the problem with JS documentation?

This isn't a discussion about Documentation in its entirety. Was literally just to take the example feature and include it into the tag wikis.

On the other hand Delphi (Emba) docs are soo poor, that this could be a starting point.

or could you imagine the fabulousness of documentation on, say, math.SE? or physics.SE?

Won't that have the same problem/

I agree that Documentation ended up looking like what Tag Wikis should have been closer to when we launched (as in a part of them), but tag wikis also list quirks intrinsic with questions in that tag.

learning by example about calculus for free would be kinda amazing.

Which examples should be shown? or do you mean, using the examples tool as more of a way to show example questions that can be asked, or questions to avoid?

@TimPost most of the ones i've seen leave the quirks for the usage guidance, and then the wiki is effectively a...wikipedia article that's better.

It would extremely limit the scope of the examples. Sure, in broad tags there may be excessive data, but in a tag wiki, is having too much info really a downside?

What keeps hitting me is, on most screens, we have a ton of real-estate in the left nav when viewing any major tag search. And we want to play more with tag-specific CTA's (like if [foobar] is being proposed for deprecation, anyone that asked / answered a question with it might want to know, and probably would never see the discussion).

@TravisJ in a broad tag you link to the smaller tag's tag wiki - sort of like wikipedia's outlines.

@TimPost The meta inclusions could remain there, the idea for examples was just to be as additions, not to replace the current structure. Although, it would be nice to be able to include subpage links some how in the tag wikis.

Maybe house ads for tags might be a good start for visibility and a better system to get more folks alerted to janitorial needs.

@heather True

@TimPost i've always kinda thought tag search is more difficult than it needs to be - there's a question on SO meta I wrote a while ago about documentation in finding specific language documentation, let me find it...

@KevinB I just meant that perhaps the format of examples would allow the tag wiki layout to become more structured, with linkable sections, perhaps collapsible?, no voting on them though, just to make it slightly more parceled.

@TimPost I don't think it needs to replace any adspace though, if it went right before the hot network questions list (since that is pretty low priority space anyway) that would still be good enough.

ah this thing (my drawings look even more terrible looking back at them...)

but the sort of web-to-find-tags idea is one i like.

So, collapsible sections

basically, yeah - sorting the tags by overall topic.

probably never going to be implemented, but while we're discussing this thought i'd bring it up.

@TravisJ As an object, it would technically be an ad, and have access to all the wiring that ads do, but in practice it wouldn't be advertising anything other than functionality that might have eluded someone. So even though it's technically an ad, putting it somewhere new (and exclusive only to it) wouldn't mean creating a new ad space.

But yeah, above the HNQ on big screens might work, or even left-side on tag related partials, under the nav. I'll play around with a spec.

Is anyone here a moderator or senior member? With the new code of conduct I am considering flagging a comment, but the poster is a very senior member of the community. Can anyone give me some guidance?

Can you link your example and what you intend to flag?

Especially some seniors sometimes tend to get rude.

@TimPost Cool!

The comment is in response to a low point total member answer. The poster with a VERY high point count says "oh, nice, preventing paste... (not!)" This comment has also been upvoted twice. It seems "less than welcoming to me". Later in the exchange, the very high level poster offers a much more helpful comment that would have been a better opening

Flag it as no longer needed.

Doesn't really seem to be contributing anything meaningful.

@JonSG Don't let reputation cloud your judgement when it comes to that sort of thing. It's much better for the mods to be aware of it and choose to act or not, than to not be aware at all. When it comes to comments, there's no penalty for declined flags.

I feel like this is something that SO is attempting to address via the new code of conduct, but given the upvotes and the reputation of the user I am worried that I am going to end up with the wrist

Is it here on MSE or one of the actual sites?

is is on SO proper

I won't consider that rude or unwelcoming, unnecessary though.

I flagged it.

Now you can stop worrying :P

I can give you a link

I'm curious why you would not consider this type of post unwelcoming? If the attempt was to be funny, the new CoC clearly calls that out. To me it seems nothing but snarky

Thanks Travis.

I don't consider that snarky, more like a Hmmmm, interesting ...

Sometimes it depends on context. I could imagine that being an actual joke but I'm not looking at the post itself. I do agree that it's not actually adding anything (even without context). The last revision of the CoC draft (2nd) mentions being cautious with jokes as they can be misinterpreted easily but that's not an outright prohibition.

I don't really consider it to fall in the rude category, but it certainly could have had more information in it. What specifically prevented paste that the user observed? Later on, once pressed, they do seem to get back into the reasons, so removing the first comment with nothing in it seems to make sense to me there.

Anyway, its gone now, it was marked helpful.

Many thanks for your input friends, and for your assistance Travis

:D

it's clearly sarcastic, and imo would certainly be valid criticism.

but it could have been better expressed

@KevinB Then there's still in question if that was really "excessively sarcastic"

What did I miss?

Nothing important probably

Nothing is important

At least it was made obvious that it was sarcasm

So weird, with bare walls and no furniture, the keyboard has a weird echo noise.

@KevinB oh, unwelcoming sarcasm? Guess that's going to become more and more common, or at least more and more flagged.

Is the sarcastic user suspended?

Leave me to it

i disagree that sarcasm is unwelcoming... but whatever

hate to see good criticism being removed due to feelings.

sarcasm != criticism (inherently) != feelings (inherently)

At least we could consider some degree of sarcasm being helpful and welcoming, because we just appeal to the intelligence of the questioner, and don't imply any bad intentions from their side.

sarcasm is innocent and friendly in a way, even if the addressed person is left with a bit of bitter feeling.

Not that I'm avoiding it lotta hell myself since the CoC changed :P

@KevinB It wouldn't be so bad if the trash questions could be removed due to my feelings. Most of the questions asked on Sundays on the C tag are unwelcome and rude. It seems that my feelings don't matter.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of humor.

It's an art form. Like good software design.

sarcasm is one way to shield people from their own feelings and deal with offensiveness in managing bad statements brought up to them.

The humor level is quite low, yes.

How funny is truth at all?

In the sense that anyone can be sarcastic just as anyone can produce art, perhaps it is a form of art. However, it is certainly not like good software design.

The truth is hilarious. It just requires proper timing and explanation. Almost all famous standup comedians use truth in their comedy, and almost none of them use sarcasm aside from very sparingly.

@TravisJ Neither is a Bugatti Chiron. Sadly, I can only manage two out of three of those art forms.

@TravisJ Truth is not allowed by the CoC.

@TravisJ "It just requires proper timing and explanation." Good point!

@MartinJames Nonsense!

@πάνταῥεῖ You consider that "Your question is a mutiple-duplicate that is covered by the tag FAQ, 'Programming for Dummies' and any 'Computers 101' course. Refer either one" would be considered acceptable?

This suit is black not.

@MartinJames As long as you link to one. I mean, are you commenting because you are upset with them, or because you are trying to help? If the former, why bother? If the latter, then at least show the duplicate or book, or whichever holds the information.

A question like "Why can't I use foobar() @ exit; in brimble_bla" and an answer given "Because the brimble_bla language designers didn't consider that useful syntax yet" is a perfectly fine answer.

@TravisJ I am trying to keep up balance with both aspects.

I'm to cool to get upset anymore :P

:P

@MartinJames CV as dupe then, and propose more dupes.

@TravisJ Isn't that this guy who was wearing that incredible neon green bathing suit?

Well, TBH sarcasm is a grey field regarding welcomeness and usefulness, and as mentioned I'm avoiding it as hell meanwhille.

It totally depends on a mindset coherence of the questioner and answerer which can't be presumed in general.

@TravisJ I am cool as a fridge ;-)

At least answers have downvotes.

You would probably be surprised at how many people would downvote all these junk comments, but instead we only see how many people upvote them.

-100, +2 comment looks like someone agreed with it.

I didn't say I encourage these kinda comments, you noticed that?

If they got -100 flags and no mod agreed with these, they'll still survive though.

"You would be surprised" is mostly an expression used for a broader "you", meaning most people. I should have used a better expression, I know you wouldn't be surprised.

That said, I often wish there were comment downvotes.

As an hobbyist actor, I well know how bad sarcasm is achieved in the broader public (auditorium). It's as you mentioned a matter of good timing and self explanatory nature.

:)

chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/169727/… (@Shadow)

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