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20:00
As a few of you may have noticed, my default when referring to people I don't know here, is plural pronouns (e.g. "they").
sure.
I find that very uncomfortable to use in comments when referring to someone else
I do know and understand that for most people, it's male pronouns, but in the same manner, the above is natural for me.
@KevinB So, you think I shouldn't be hurt when people call me "he" without even asking if I'm male or not?
I am showing a female profile, while I am not female, but a true feminist (in terms @TimPost claims to be). You're dragging that completely out of scope IMO.
There's no value!
The problem is... I think theres more to it than just being mis-identified.
See rule 5 here.
@KevinB I think the proper rule is, "feel what you want, but be nice to others".
like, i personally don't care if someone refers to me as the incorrect gender. it doesn't matter to me. but... that's coming from me, a white male programmer, who isn't perceived as a minority in the field. where as, a female programmer being refered to as "he" may instead take it as more than just a mis-communication
So, there is value in sharing your gender if you're comfortable with it... if you're in an underrepresented group, the other members of your group will feel less alone, even if they don't disclose, themselves.
20:05
what fresh hell is this
I mean, good morning everyone!
🌈
Oh hey. Shog's awake. Time for bed. Night!
Shog always lurks.
@Shog9 ... it's 2 pm for you?
it's been a long week
also, I had internet problems this morning
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMCAST
Or Cogentco, as the case may be
20:07
@Shog9 You work in Denver, right? I thought SE shut down their Denver office? You're remote?
I've always been remote
when the denver office was open, I'd occasionally drop in to sample the desserts
Beer?
Or did they just have kombucha?
they had beer in the fridge, kombucha & coffee on tap
@Shog9 A bit of a broad question, but do you agree or disagree to the below statement?
Jun 25 at 20:56, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Stack Exchange is a great system, it would be very effective if most people using it were on the autism spectrum. Put it in the hands of neurotypicals, and it starts to go awry.
what
I have no idea
I... may be a bit skeptical of the term neurotypical
there is far more variation among people than folks like to think about
20:11
@Shog9 erf ;p
we love to draw hard lines and say, "this side of the line, you're broken, that side, you're ok"
bloody night shift ;)
but... An awful lot of the time that says more about the folks drawing the lines than it does about those garrotted by them
@Catija He answered a meta question a couple of hours ago.
@Shog9 heh, I mention my dyslexia hopefully to inspire, rather than excuse....
20:13
@Shog9 no I'm definitely an average thinker like most normies I mean normal people...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog That doesn't really change the fact he said "morning" at 2 pm. :)
@Catija its morning somewhere ;p
Are we implying that Shog answers Meta questions in his sleep?
@JourneymanGeek You have used it to excuse your prolific spelling mistakes, as well as to roll back my edits which correct such mistakes.
It's morning in Hawaii
@HDE226868 Oh, I'm pretty sure he could ... he's been doing it for so long.
20:14
@HDE226868 Just because he could doesn't mean he should.
I mean, lemme be clear, I am 100% average, the Nebraska of humanity, normal to the nth degree, a perfect portrait of the top of the bell curve on any dimension of your choice... But most people are not so lucky.
@HDE226868 He's got twitter bots (minions) maybe
@Shog9 I'm sure you've wrecked every curve you've been in.
I sit in a new car, I never have to adjust the seat or mirrors; the pop station the radio is tuned to plays all of my favorite songs, IQ is an even 100
...sorry, what were we talking about?
20:17
@πάνταῥεῖ Nah, that's Jon Skeet. :D
onion hair.
@Shog9 But you are a head with no body - that's not "average", is it?
he might be an average head
entirely on the pointy bit of the bell curve
I just downloaded my data
About what was expected. Either they're not giving me the nefarious stuff or stack exchange doesn't actually collect that much
@Magisch I hope the latter ;)
20:20
pretty nice that they gave it to me comprehensibly though
@Magisch Maybe you are not that interesting to them ;-)
very likely
I'm probably not interesting enough to try and figure me out
22 hours ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
I've come across another setback towards inclusivity: new users aren't told that editing an on-hold question will make it get considered for reopening.
If that's serious - there's a lot of things noobs get to learn the hard way...
They are told to edit, but nothing about the processes afterward.
Not sure what that has to do with inclusivity
more than how SE kinda grew rules organically
20:25
To me, that sure looks an awful lot like being told to edit so that it can be reopened... eh @Sonic?
I just noticed that the crickets "tag" leads to 404 Page Not Found - intentional?
@Shog9 Note the space instead of a hyphen. That's the old close reason...but I do get your point.
Excuses, too.
Well, maybe "welcoming" is the right frame - we need something like "dear noobs - here's how to Stack Overflow without getting flamed or embarrassed."
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog almost never get to see the default anymore.
The custom OT reasons tend to be a little bit less focused on reopening
But...
The ending line is always there
20:31
@AaronHall and oddly enough
That's on the pipeline?
@JourneymanGeek killer?
there's supposed to be a thing that guides new users with questions?
oh, well I would hope the wizard thing should help, but there should be a tutorial for the extra motivated so they can avoid the potholes most noobs hit.
If they were extra motivated...
they would probably look around, get to know the site...
How long should they do that before asking their first question, making their first edit, or writing their first answer?
20:37
6 years
@AaronHall 6 to 8 weeks
@AaronHall I usually do a week or two
well I'm sure the community would prefer an indefinitely prolonged lurking period, but I think a tutorial of some kind would greatly improve experiences. The help pages are like the manual. But they don't manage expectations very well, and that's ok because I'm not sure that's their purpose.
Anyone else feel that the related questions portion of the new ask-a-question wizard should probably hoist the related questions into the wizard as individual steps and ask, for each one, if its relevant to the user's needs?
leaving them there as a static list with a big fat "just click me" button doesn't seem like it's going to have the desired effect
And I'm not sure where you put a tutorial because that's going to be fairly opinionated and probably make assertions that others will complain about.
20:44
tbh?
If you care enough
Just stick it on your own blog, lol
It would be like "the talk" parents give their kids.
I'd almost say put it on a meta but... meta is totally something that a new user would miss
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I intended to. I've written up some stuff on reddit and quora.
@AaronHall the, "don't commit crimes within 50 miles of your residence" talk?
@canon I'm not familiar with that one...
20:49
@AaronHall No? "Don't do anything illegal anywhere where someone might recognize you, e.g.: near your residence or workplace." That's just prudent.
or don't do anything illegal? ;p
pfffffffft
@AaronHall funny thing is my parents never had that talk with us
SO rep recalc started :)
but these days
shrug you can find out most things from the internet ;)
20:52
@JourneymanGeek I'm sure not everyone's parents have had some "here's how it really works" discussions with their kids, but that should be a rarity... my folks did their best to keep me naive though, so my "the talk" was weak sauce...
I never had the talk. I think things started earlier than they expected; so, all I got was the, "Just be respectful. No means no." talk from my mother.
I blame Tyson chicken and its hormones.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog because its a pipe dream
for the vast majority of new users who get their question closed, that's the end of it. It wont be reopened. They can pour their heart and soul into it and people will still be like "no"
@Magisch shh, you're going to make Shog pull out the numbers...
I might
@Shog9 I'm aware of that. As I said before...
23 hours ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
The close notice says to edit. The tour says that questions are closed "until they are improved", but users often either forget about it or think that an edit won't get it attention.
"think that an edit won't get it attention"
20:58
how do you know that?
numbers can be found by anyone with 10K rep by visiting /tools/question-close-stats
Is there a good ideological reason why <10k users should not have access to the data? Is sharing information in the tools publicly to others considered disclosing private information without consent?
metering out functionality is how they gamify the site
and, sometimes, to reduce server load
@canon Yes, I know that the privilege to see vote counts is there for technical rather than ideological reasons. A <1k-er can look at the timeline or install a user script.
i mean.. you can see recently closed questions using the advanced search
prior to having the tools
21:06
@Undo What's your minirant of the day?
> tests? who needs tests? Just make it work...
2
> Why is it my id gets all the stars and I get bupkis? - my superego
Have a great weekend everyone!
21:59
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog eh, haven't been sufficiently irritated by anything today
actually
undo's minirant of the day: Having a sore throat but no other symptoms is horrible way to live. 0/10 would not recommend
2
@AaronHall Project Manager? IT Manager?
@Fabby my id, when I realize that writing tests for my extension of the Jupyter notebook is going to be way more work than I thought - but maybe I've simplified it a bit so it's not as bad. I don't think anyone would have pushed back if I declared it ridiculously impossible.
@AaronHall Oh, wow! Never even heard of Jupyter until now...
trying...
mmmh... Doesn't seem to like my privacy settings:
launch attemp1 failed, retrying...
22:19
@Undo whiskey
or, gargle with h2o2
but whiskey is tastier
it's gotta be five o'clock somewhere
I dont understand alcohol consumption
hangovers sound bad enough that nobody would willingly do it
I mean... You can spit it out if you don't want to consume it
but that's kind of a waste
hangovers are punishment for lack of moderation
or being a wine snob
or both
seems fitting that you'd like to see punishment for lack of moderation
being on stack exchange and all
PUNISHMENTS ABOUND!
yes I just made that pun I'm aware that joke was bad enough to be a felony
22:23
@Shog9 or a punishment for being a cheapskate...
even good wine is pretty hangover-inducing IME
YMMV
I've never actually consumed alcohol
@Magisch I've never had a hangover in my entire life...
I had a friend like that
I only know every time my parents or friends drink it they look and behave like zombies for half a day afterwards
22:25
he was a functioning alcoholic
except, sometimes, he wasn't
punishments are important
:-) That's why I stopped drinking during the week...
Too much genetic baggage...
y'know, substance wise I'm the human equivalent of a saltine sandwich on white
I like saltines
with texas chili
I'm pretty sure the wildest thing I ever took was prescription stomach medicine
oh man... to bring this back to Undo's malady, I still have fond memories of this stuff they prescribed me for a cough once
22:26
Checking on plum tart. BRB
tasted like strawberries
made me feel all warm & happy
was it alcohol
it was alcohol
full of the proverbial milk of human kindness
...were you a kid then
no
I was well into adulthood
22:27
hah
it just made me feel young
eumenthol jujubes....
the red ones, anything else is sissy.
are you feeling strange urges to tell people to get off your lawn?
(basically burny hot gummies)
@Magisch all the time. And I don't even have a lawn
@Magisch this one?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Urgh... I tend to forget I don't have those privileges here...
22:49
lol
Imagine how I feel ;)
@JourneymanGeek You've got 30K here...
@Fabby NOW I do ;p
Yeah, but not like you had 833 last week, no?
probably not lol
Work + personal stuff has me exhausted ;)
Ah... One of those weeks for you, huh?
22:54
hah
So, anything to be happy about @JourneymanGeek ?
3x night duties in a row,
@Catija not yet
but considering the chain of communication, if anyone responds, thi weekend would be good.
HAHA. Yeah. :( Fingers crossed for you.
22:56
(since the moms are usually in other towns)
lol
these things take time?
Oh, so you don't think she still lives with her mom?
Naw
Actually the CCed email to her brother's the important one
Who's phone number does she have?
my aunt called her mom
and the other one's mom who my dad did not email XD
so I emailed her too
I can't help but wonder how much faster things would be if there were no parents involved... it'd be more like online dating.
22:59
yup
it it is how it is, lol
I will try to be more patient.
hah
Even if she gets back, there's a lot of stuff still to go through lol
@JourneymanGeek Once you find the right partner, how long until the big wedding?
@SomewhatMemorableName You need to reset yours too
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog donno
One issue at a time
@JourneymanGeek Meaning?
23:11
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog quite literally - I'm not thinking that far ahead
@Catija might not even be that girl.
I'm trying to stay positive. :D
lol
@Catija I'm a little amused over how many folks think she's a really good fit based off, slightly non existant data ;p
You like her, she seems like a non-typical sort of person, so there may not be a lot of similar ladies.
there's that lol
@JourneymanGeek What sort of data?
23:16
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog y'all only know me through, well, my online persona, ;p
@Catija well, ya, but lol. Still insufficient data.
and too many variables out of my control, lol
Fine. :P
SHe's at this point...
er... the third? third person we've looked at
(one bailed, one's... probably a last resort, and there's number 4 at the moment)
this is incredibly scattershot ;p
23:40
@JourneymanGeek Are your types also matching? Just because the usual stuff on a matrimony site match doesn't mean that you won't end up with someone like me.
Pretty sure there's no one like you there.
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