Tavern on the Meta

hey

01:42

@bro it reads "WE NEED A BETTER TRIAGE SYSTEM! NOW!" to me... so that everything that goes public on SO (either homepage, /question, and even search) is at least not downvote-worthy anymore.

Wow, ever since that blog posts, I got many radical ideas to suggest. Not sure if I have time to write all of them carefully...

(anyway, morning... seems I need caffeine to survive this TGIF)

and while some are focusing on sexist comments, how about... comments like this?

Catija

So help?

hey

there are too many possible keywords that should be monitor... there might be many FPs, but the TPs are far more crucial than those FPs

Shog9

@bro I've seen some mockups of saved filters. Not sure how far out that is right now, but someone's thinking about how it's gonna work.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

02:10

It's more difficult to find those comments on Friday or Saturday

user202362

//alive

yagmoth555

02:31

just seen a new, twitter action will drop a bit.. a software ´bug’ displayed all their 300m users passwords.

hey

02:47

@SmokeDetector as always, bounty hunter troller~

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

02:59

0

Q: Should we disallow users from immediately deleting their accounts if they've made one post?

When a user wants to delete their account, if they have posted 0 or 1 times, their account is deleted immediately; otherwise, they have to wait 24 hours for their account to be deleted after requesting deletion. Recently, we've been encountering a troll (visible to members of the Charcoal SO Tea...

@hey ^^

hey

They self-deleted? I thought someone nuked that account..

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@hey Why is it that in every single case of that troll, I see the account is self-deleted within minutes?

hey

Because I guessed it's nuked as fast as possible when the obvious troll is detected. Yesterday the troll posted 2 answers on a single question (on Chemistry.SE, I'll try find it on MetaSmoke), 1 was NAA. But the account was already gone while the posts were still there.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@hey You sure those were posted from the same account?

hey

I might be wrong. I'll check it on MS again

Apparently you're right, they were different accounts always with the same name

Anonymous

03:12

@Catija "@finnwilcox @StackOverflow Systems of data, fact and science are compatible with downvotes (this could apply to some subreddits as well!). Systems of opinion.. are absolutely not" @CodingHorror on May 3, 2018 at 11:18 PM

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@hey Don't forget to mention in your comment that the answer is plagiarized.

hey

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog done

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@hey And he also uses the name "Anonymous Teacher"

hey

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog consider adding it on the post by yourself :)

user202362

03:46

@bro Have you considered changing your username to Sis, then use a girly female avatar ... if you go hiding this much, maybe there is something you are ashamed of yourself?

user202362

how likely will a passive aggressive person bite?

hey

That is the reason why I was hesitate at that time to change the username to the "obvious" one, other than "yo".

user202362

out of my 3 chickens, only 1 does not mind to be handled, the other two would run towards me when they see me with food but will move away when I try to touch them

Anonymous

wait hold on a sec

Anonymous

the product is named "Teams"

Anonymous

03:57

but the URL still has /c/, from "Channels", a name that is now entirely gone?

hey

@TelKitty reminded me of my 3 puppies, 2 liked to play with me, but 1 was frightened by everything.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@user1114 "c" doesn't mean anything

hey

@user1114 AFAIK, Teams is an embodiment of Channels

409

Q: Coming Soon: Stack Overflow For Teams!

Sometimes we chase things not because we can see what's at the end, but because the general direction feels like the one that we should be taking. It might be surprising to learn that the unshipping of teams was met with quite a bit of optimism on our part, internally; we knew that the direction ...

discussion stackoverflow-for-teams

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Sort of how the SAT is no longer referred to as the "Scholastic Aptitude Test"

Anonymous

That seems like an odd decision for a product that has just been launched.

user202362

04:14

@hey all loving pet owner knows every pet has their own personalities

hey

It scarily reminded me of how humans behave too...
1. black, short fur, aggressive
2. white, short fur, playful
3. black, curly fur, bullied by both

Anonymous

0

Q: Why does my Stack Overflow for Teams URL start with a /c/?

I created a team using Stack Overflow for Teams. 😄 I observe that the base team URL is stackoverflow.com/c/TEAM_NAME and was curious, why? 🤔 What does /c/ stand for? To investigate, I did a search for every word the started with "c" on the Stack Overflow Teams page: create can chec...

discussion stackoverflow-for-teams

hey

05:19

sd k

Neil

06:05

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog what is it called?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Neil Just "SAT" now

Neil

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It can't not represent its acronym :)

Journeyman Geek

07:20

@user1114 they made the decision a while back

I think that the SRE team kept calling it channels during that live DB upgrade ;p

channels is also what the underlying stuff is still called, and I guess teams is what marketing felt was better

\o/

hey

and it has a good acronym: SOfT

compared to SOchan

Journeyman Geek

SOOOCHAAAAAAAN!!!!!!

hey

close enough to 50chan ;p

Derpy

07:45

I should refrain from reading comments on any staff made post that announces an increased effort in enforcing site rules.

user202362

I would have missed pretty much all of them ... I mean I probably have read the title, then I remembered that there are 150+ pages of more important stuff that waiting to be read so I went away surfing web somewhere else ...

Derpy

I think that reading them is a good indicator of how misguided our community is.

hey

It's not yet 6-8 days. Brace yourself, winter is (still) coming.

user5389107

@Derpy Many chatroom people see chat rooms as their own thing, and resent SE trying to meddle

hey

in SOBotics on Stack Overflow Chat, 21 hours ago, by Andrew T.

A "Heat Detector for Chat Messages" would probably... be overloaded if applied to all rooms... (stream of conscious)

Derpy

07:56

> Let's start with a simple claim, just to make it clear, since I saw so many flames during these days claimin that staff should stay out of "room culture" since the actually room dweller are capable to handle the management themselves.

The chat is owned by the StackExchange staff

(see meta.stackexchange.com/a/270772/171199 - disclaimer: I am the author of that post.)

user5389107

@Derpy You're correct but that does not make people agree with you

Derpy

sorry if this seem harsh, but I think we are at a point where they don't "have to" agree.

user5389107

@Derpy Sure but I was explaining why you're seeing such a negative reaction on that post

Derpy

By which I mean that either they agree and start acting nice as everyone would expect... or it is time to show them the door.

@user5389107 Oh, I see. I know, don't worry. Read the full post I linked, especially the end. I think we agree.

user5389107

for instance many room owners will use their tools to remove outsiders trying to meddle instead of correcting behavior

case in point: javascript room

user202362

08:02

I will be on a mini holiday for the weekend near a sun drenched beach, please tell me how badly this stricter chat rule is treating you after I come back.

Derpy

@user5389107 nice to know. Then I guess that room is worth visiting. I think Jon or any other community manager will greatly like to know how nice they are

hey

there's already a meta post about that room recently...

user5389107

@Derpy There's a meta about it

They were discussing prostitute pricing and someone came in and asked them to drop it. The person who came in was mocked and kicked out

hey

(okay, now my code is compiling and it's hogging the CPU resource... can't even chat :(

Journeyman Geek

ehh

@user5389107 there's a bit more context there though

user5389107

08:08

Well yeah

Journeyman Geek

Its worth having a little empathy for the people on the ground, except when its obviously wrong.

Derpy

@user5389107 main meta?

hey

@Derpy SO

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy We've had many discussions over room culture.

user5389107

The person that came in was blunt about it and linked the blog post, but I read the entire conversation, and I'm really unsure why the RO felt a kick was appropriate there

Journeyman Geek

08:09

Room culture's a thing, but it can be both toxic or a source of good.

With root access we actually have a (very informal) post incident process - especially if a mod we're not familiar comes in to help.

hey

partially, because it's kind of "annoying" when that blog is always used as a weapon

user5389107

You don't have to like it, but you can't deny the optics of it are bad

Journeyman Geek

Stuff like "thanks" or even "hey, we do talk off topic stuff here, so if its not offensive, let it be please" or "hey, thanks for the help. If Joe Troublemaker pulls this again, feel free to suspend, then let us know so we can have a word with him"

@user5389107 heh. There's a few issues.

Firstly most chat intervention happens far too late.

Secondly - the mechanics of moderating chat effectively are fundamentally different from moderating sites , and a lot of mods arn't prepared for it

Third - chat moderation, or more precisely incident management has to be swift

user5389107

chat self moderation tools also suck

Journeyman Geek

and.. sometimes we just lack coverage.

user5389107

08:12

I want to delete my own messages

I can delete my own comments anytime, why not messages?

Journeyman Geek

hmm

user5389107

Sometimes something didn't quite come out right or was said in anger and after sleeping over it I don't think it needs to stay

Journeyman Geek

So... why not ask a mod nicely?

user5389107

often times it's not that important

Journeyman Geek

One of the 'cultural' things we have in place on root access is "hey, you probably shouldn't have said that. I'll help you remove it"

Rob

08:14

@user5389107 I'd imagine because comments are likely to become obsolete if the post is modified. Chat messages.. not so much. Though, keep in mind, chat is not really the main focus of the site

hey

@user5389107 FYI, Shog9 answered that

Journeyman Geek

which also means users are happy to ask for help, or politely engage each other.

ugh. If I wasn't working night shifts, I might actually be tempted to go throw a Q&A/discussion on MSE about a philosphy for chat.

user5389107

chat is a lot more fast paced then comments - the potential to say something you end up regretting is a lot bigger

Journeyman Geek

Feels timely, and sharing the stuff we've done right across sucessful chat rooms (and wrong with less successful ones) feels like something we could benefit from

@user5389107 and you can defuse in chat

hey

@JourneymanGeek what time do you sleep? :O

Journeyman Geek

08:16

"Hey, I'm sorry I said that. I clearly was a little too heated"

@hey I take naps throughout the day at the moment

and I switch between shifts on a cycle

so these three days I work nights

tbh, I get on chat if its quiet

but this feels like something that I've been meaning to do for a while and absolutely need to hit the right tone on

user202362

I say a lot of stupid things, by now surely anyone who knows me well already know this. And if I ever change, those people probably will find it weird ...

Journeyman Geek

@TelKitty that's not fully true

user202362

which part

Journeyman Geek

You shouldn't say stupid things cause people expect you to ^^

user202362

~_~

Journeyman Geek

08:20

Especially in the current climate. If folks are going to get outraged, why give them things to be outraged about? ;p

We can best monkeywrench that narrative with class

hey

@TelKitty I also say a lot of stupider things

user202362

Best risk management practice - get away from dangerous area, taking holiday somewhere else :p

Journeyman Geek

... if we know they're stupid, why do we say it?

hey

because of boke :)

Journeyman Geek

._.

I have no fitting response to that

user202362

08:25

@JourneymanGeek you better ask trump that

Journeyman Geek

@TelKitty "if we know...."

Suraj Rao

we say first and realize later. Mouth works faster than the thought process. Trump .. is a different case

Journeyman Geek

@SurajRao hah. I find it hard to talk about the current US president without violating be nice

So... I shall not

That said, if someone exhibited what I refer to as "verbal diarrhoea" of the worst sort , president, pope or pauper, maybe they shouldn't be hanging out on public chat ;p

user5389107

@JourneymanGeek I have the best words. Believe me. Everyone says I have the best words to talk about anything. You'll see

Journeyman Geek

@user5389107 ._.

hey

08:29

@user5389107 ._.

Suraj Rao

@JourneymanGeek would it be alright if you were refering to a similarly named troll

Journeyman Geek

@user5389107 the funny thing is, I see that sort of thing and keep getting reminded of a certain short story I once read

@SurajRao hmm. I think sticking to hypothetical users and behavior is more productive

I'd rather it be about trying to get chat to be a more productive friendly place over assigning blame or ranting about people.

user5389107

I too wish I had the skill to talk for 20 minutes and say absolutely nothing

Journeyman Geek

No you don't ;p

The Mold of Yancy

"The Mold of Yancy" is a science fiction short story by American writer Philip K. Dick, first published in 1955. It is published in volume four of The Collected Stories of Philip K. Dick, The Days of Perky Pat. "The Mold of Yancy" follows an investigation into an off-Earth colony where a seemingly benign totalitarian society has emerged. The eponymous Yancy is a popular public figure who is actually a virtual person, created by teams of 'Yance-men'. All aspects of day-to-day life are commentated on by Yancy through advertisements and broadcast shows, from breakfast cereal to music to politics....

worth a read if you can find it

Wes

08:50

Could I get someones opinion. I seem to have upset someone with a downvote. I thought it was reasonable, but maybe I did something wrong. stackoverflow.com/questions/28296162/…

Journeyman Geek

@Wes the tone... is kinda

Wes

@JourneymanGeek Okay I don't mean to upset anyone. I can't remove the down vote however.

I did try.

Journeyman Geek

consider "Downvoting. The question is how to simulate requests without sni support." vs "I think that the answer dosen't quite cover what OP wants - the question is foo, but your answer seems to focus more on bar"

Oh, I meant the comment

and tbh I think that's actually a decent answer

You can't is valid - even with the other hacky methods in place

Wes

Yeah I know what you mean. I'l bare that in mind.

@JourneymanGeek in work we do.

And it got broken for us, default vhost got removed.

hey

@Wes you can only undo the vote if the post has been edited after that.

Journeyman Geek

08:55

and that's actually trivial

other than that I cannot solo edit on SO :p

Wes

And I wanted to test that the vhost didn't get removed. Which is why I looked at that question. Sometimes I'm torn between upvotes and downvotes. I see good information that is irrelevant sometimes and feel like doing both. Or many points are useful but one is actively harmful.

those situations confuse me.

hey

Also, protip: don't declare that you're the downvoter. Just comment on the possible improvement/correction.

Journeyman Geek

@Wes I personally save my downvotes for the worst of the worst

also, commenting constructively is hard ;p

but starting with "Downvoted" is actually going to end up in folks getting annoyed.

Also, I think the proposed new 6-8 weeks wording for comments - "request clarification" and so on might be worth keeping in mind for more constructive comments.

Wes

Thanks guys. I always try to comment if I downvote for a reason that won't be understood.

Its just a disclosure thing

Journeyman Geek

@Wes which tends to get ugly fast.

hey

08:58

You could, instead of declaring something, ask for confirmation whether the answer is missing something or not. If the OP doesn't think so, then move on

Journeyman Geek

(especially these days ;p)

Wes

I thought downvote comments were encouraged.

well never mind.

Journeyman Geek

ehh

Not really

People keep asking for it. And other people react badly to them

Better to have "suggested improvement" comments ;)

hey

209

Q: Why isn't commenting mandatory on downvotes, and why are ideas suggesting such shot down?

Sometimes my post receives downvotes with no explanation on what I've done wrong. Even worse, sometimes I just get snarky comments! It seems like this is especially bad for new users, who are made to feel unwelcome by veteran users. Stack Overflow's rules can be difficult to grasp, especially fo...

support faq comments down-votes downvote-reason

It's encouraged, in the meaning of giving (possibly constructive) feedback. It doesn't mean that comment should always be followed after downvoting

Wes

I'm thinking about putting this as yet another comment don't know if thats making this worse. "I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend. I'm happy to delete my comments if you want. I can't remove the downvote unless you edit the question however."

hey

09:05

I think apologizing is okay, and you have enough rep to edit the answer yourself (though I'm a bit reluctant in using this technique: add a single character, undo the vote, then remove the character so that the edit is removed during grace period)

@Wes there's a typo: "answer", not "question"

Wes

@hey Thanks

hey

your welcome~

Wes

@JourneymanGeek Thanks I'm not really active on SO and haven't seen that. Everyone thanks. I do realise this is a small matter and I'm under no obligation to try to fix the situation but I don't like upsetting people.

Rob

@JourneymanGeek I must have missed that. Have you got a link handy?

hey

@Rob I think this MSE post about Area 51, which has been implemented on IPS.SE too

Rob

09:14

Ah, thanks

Journeyman Geek

^ that

@Wes its more of a MSE thing

@Wes tbh, asking feels like the right thing to do ^^

Wes

Whats going on been looking at the starred comments. Has something very offensive been said. Or is there a general case with chat problems?

Journeyman Geek

There's been issues with chat

and some drama

and folks getting snippy.

And more drama

We have a little work to do ^^

Wes

@hey I wouldn't do that. I think thats a Rep abuse and as I've said before I have rep mainly for maybe one question that was well received (bikeshed) . That with my current understanding of SO is borderline off topic (best practices).

Journeyman Geek

@Wes if you want to get caught up, sans the... rather dramatic context ....

user5389107

09:25

DramaOverflow

Meta is still on fire both mse and mso, and they've had sort of poor timing to combine all this with the massively unpopular TOS Update

Journeyman Geek

More or less, TPTB feel we can be more welcoming to users. There's folks on twitter who're kinda either trying to create change (sometimes in a manner that annoys the natives)

people fuelling drama, by well... being dramatic ;p

user5389107

to be fair some of those comments are despicable

Journeyman Geek

@user5389107 I think it was in the making

@user5389107 that's fair and should be handled

user5389107

and some of the despicable comments are years old and never got anything besides comment upvotes

Journeyman Geek

and I still think our winning stratergy is sorting those things out and basically depriving those folks of things to complain about outside mechanics

user5389107

09:30

I'm pretty sure I don't need to argue that sex jokes and especially rape jokes don't belong on a technical Q/A site

Journeyman Geek

erm

I don't think anyone should argue for that

In fact, I'd argue that we need to encourage a culture where people speak up politely, face the issue, and handle it.

user5389107

Yeah, that's what I meant

that's a non controversial issue

Journeyman Geek

sigh

In a sense - that's the sort of thing we need cultural antibodies for

(man, I really need to write the thing.)

user5389107

Maybe it wasn't clear but I don't think we'd find anyone arguing for sex jokes to remain on the site

Journeyman Geek

hm

user5389107

09:32

Yet ... some have like 8 comment upvotes and clearly nobody ever flagged them in the years they were visible

Journeyman Geek

Its about the actions and behaviour

making it about individuals dosen't scale at all

user5389107

@JourneymanGeek I agree

Ideally we'd create some more awareness so these get handled faster organically until people posting them realize they don't stick and get bored

Journeyman Geek

The most powerful words in a community is "I'm sorry - but that's not how we do things, and this isn't the sort of topic I'm comfortable with"

And the best thing we can do is have a community where people talk through these things - I think the term I use on RA is "we handle things in the family"

We do actually have a core of really nice folks who I can trust to kick my ass if I mess up, and back us mods up when we need it though

And we have a really really good relationship with other mods. And you'd be surprised how little tension we have with foreign mods helping out, simply cause our regulars know that I'll have a word with the mods in question.

And that's something I think we miss in firefighting, and is really hard to replicate quickly

Rob

@JourneymanGeek RA?

Journeyman Geek

Root Access.

Super User's main chat room

Rob

09:46

Ah, right

Journeyman Geek

More or less - we encourage people to speak up when issues like well... what happened on chat happens

since if we can deal with it without needing to resort to a mod or CM or twitter, everyone wins ;p

which results in amusing situations sometimes like "no, I'm not going to suspend you on request. Lets just talk this out like adults"

and ugh

(I've been thinking about this a lot ;p)

hey

You're one step closer to enlightment?

Rob

Indeed. That's the ideal. I think the main problem with chat rooms here is that people forget that rooms are public. So what may be 'harmless' in the room with regulars (and indeed, can even be harmless with friends) isn't necessarily acceptable in public chat rooms.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I once asked a user (hint: you guys mistook me for him for a long time) a question here, and he responded saying that he doesn't talk to inclusive people. That's insulting, isn't it?

I was at a loss of words. The only thing I could say was a pedantic correction that I'm a hedgehog

hey

bring the full context please... you're asking this question

11 hours ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@bro If I were to set up a service where users could give me their information (which I'd keep safeguarded) and I could send a letter to SE on their behalf with an arbitration opt-out, would that be legal?

which I don't have any idea why you asked him

user202362

09:55

@Rob if trump can do it, we can do it

Rob

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I saw the interaction. At worst, it came off as merely a dismissive response to you. It might have been slightly insulting, but I don't think it was necessarily out of line. Especially since it didn't devolve into an argument.

hey

I'm not him, but I have a feeling... it's the same as saying "you're annoying"

So, the real question is, is saying "you're annoying" insulting if they really perceive someone as annoying?

afk, have better things to do

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:10

@hey Saying I'm annoying is not insulting because I actually expect people to tell me whenever I'm being annoying. But saying that you don't talk to me because I'm inclusive is insulting

hey

Sometimes you have to read between the lines. It's a good skill to have...

Rob

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Pretty sure they used the word inclusive because of your name change.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

It's much easier in real life because I have body language to infer from.

@Rob So if I, for example, changed my name back to "Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog", he would have said "anonymous" instead?

Rob

I'm not the person who wrote the message, so I couldn't say for sure. Suffice to say, it may be have been insulting to you, but considering that a) It's not outright abusive, and b) it didn't devolve into a argument between you two, I'd say it's best to simply move on.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I moved on from it. I just mentioned it above because I thought it fit well in the context, and then answered questions about it and asked follow-up questions.

@rene @Shadow chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309836/…

Journeyman Geek

10:29

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog tbh, I do think you demand a lot of attentuon from folk

and sometimes we're short of energy to deal with you

I mean, if you're constantly pinging people who are getting annoyed about your behaviour... the resulting interaction isn't going to be positive

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek He always seemed fine with my questions. I don't understand why all of a sudden he would say that he doesn't like it, after dutifully answering my questions earlier.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog cause people kinda have a limit of what they're willing to deal with

and if you're going to that limit, and beyond...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Now, if this were real life, I could use implicit cues (e.g. tone, such as if it's growing more disdainful with each response) to tell, but I can't here

Journeyman Geek

We need to consider what others feel, and whether they actually have the time to deal with it.

shrug Common sense helps. I mean I usually do the whole bring up a topic, see if people respond, and if no, just leave it technique

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Of course, it may not actually be that he was merely annoyed, that was just speculation. The only way to tell is to hear from him what he meant.

Journeyman Geek

10:33

So - see, that's an issue. You're making this about you.

"Ok, he seems annoyed, lets just leave it"

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Of course, if he clarifies that he actually meant that he felt I was annoying, then this conversation makes sense

Journeyman Geek

works

or if someone ignores something you're trying to do, don't ping them

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

He never ignored me. He always dutifully responded.

He also didn't say "okay, I'm feeling a bit annoyed by your questions, but here you go"

Journeyman Geek

I believe this is literally what Adam Savage calls "Rejecting your reality and subsituting my own"

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

He just answered. And now all of a sudden he says he won't answer me because I'm an "inclusive person".

Rob

10:35

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog To be honest, the only person that can answer your question is the person who wrote it themselves. If you ask for other people's opinions in public, it looks like you're trying to make people take sides. I'm sure that's not what you're trying to do here, so, I'm just giving you a heads up. If you're truly interested, you should ask them directly.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Rob He won't talk to me

Rob

Then unfortunately, you've got your answer.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog in which case you shouldn't be bugging him about why not.

Rob

It might not be the answer you want, but that's life.

Journeyman Geek

People need space.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:36

Because I'm an "inclusive person". For crying out loud, I'm a hedgehog! (that last part was just :)

@JourneymanGeek Then why didn't he respond with "I need space"? Why did he choose to attack the user rather than the behavior?

Journeyman Geek

Ok. Harsh truth? I feel you're literally just saying that cause it gets you attention

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Nope

Journeyman Geek

And this is literally a pattern that gets people annoyed at you

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I'm a genuinely curious hedgehog

Journeyman Geek

If you care about inclusion, go do something about it

a nick name change dosen't help

JNat

10:38

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Not to derail the conversation, but I've always been confused as to why people use "real life" to refer to what happens AFK — it's like you're throwing away this whole chunk of your life as not real

Journeyman Geek

;p

@JNat well, I call it meatspace.

JNat

I always go with AFK

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JNat Quick definition: if you use your voice, it's real life.

user5389107

@JNat "in the flesh" or similar is unwieldy

Neil

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Assuming we're not in a simulation

JNat

10:39

@user5389107 AFK is practical, I think

Journeyman Geek

(also, sorry if this seems a wee bit... I'm not really sure that a less direct approach would work)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

(provided you aren't using speech recognition of course)

JNat

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'd argue that what I'm typing here is definitely real life

Journeyman Geek

@JNat though, I'm pretty much always connected ;p

Rob

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm sure you're aware of the recent debates here? I have the feeling you're pretty up to date with the goings on around here. You should be able to understand that some people may not agree with your name change 'protest'. So, the fact that they referenced your name shouldn't be a surprise.

JNat

10:39

Otherwise, @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog, you're telling me my whole work life is not real life

Journeyman Geek

@JNat "is this real life... is this a fantasy...."

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

The name "Sonic Wizard" was just too old, it was time to change it anyway. I had it for about 10 days more than I wanted.

Journeyman Geek

(also a good chunk of my social life, and my best friends mostly interact with me through the internet)

hey

To be honest, the question you asked to him was... not his business, nor anyone business. If it were me, I'd probably response with "yeah, maybe?" or "wut?" or "wtf?" or "don't know, don't care.", and similar phrase. In the end, you don't get the answer you want.

Neil

Caught in a landslide

hey

10:40

(okay, I was late)

JNat

@JourneymanGeek I couldn't find a gif, but that was how I wanted to bring up the subject, yeah :P

Rob

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You're well within your rights to change your name. But I'm sure you're aware that your name change is at least somewhat related to the recent developments?

Journeyman Geek

yup

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Yes. It was the culmination over the past month of events. Fun fact: before April's Medium post, I've proposed at least two inclusivity-related things here. All were outright shot down.

Journeyman Geek

ehh. Its not about you though

Don't make it about you.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:45

//summon 1176

user359686

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm already in that room

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@PrincessCelestia No, you're not

user359686

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog How can I //help?

Journeyman Geek

And I think the current situation has a little more nuance that needs considering

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

(Never mind, for some reason the user icons there didn't update)

Rob

10:46

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Sure, and that's great that you're wanting to openly express your views. But, even between friends, topics like this (and not only this) spark heated debate. You should understand that not everyone agrees with your view. You may not accept theirs, either. And that's fine. Debate is a part of life.

Journeyman Geek

a lot of the drama is, for example, folks going "who're they to tell us what to do?" and a us vs them viewpoint. And this dosen't help there. If you really want to help, you don't need a nick name change, just a little bit of social engineering, politely commenting, and flagging.

user5389107

@JNat I too spend most of my work staring at a screen

Journeyman Geek

Not everything needs more tooling. Sometimes we just need optics, and people behaving like grown ups

ugh ;p

That's most of my current job

user5389107

sneers sysadmins

Journeyman Geek

alas no

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:47

I lack the ability to make, understand, or appreciate jokes that objectify women in particular. Even though I'm a guy, I feel personally offended by such jokes.

Journeyman Geek

Level 1 support and monitoring

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog so... deal with it.

Engage folks who do that constructively if you can. Flag if you can't

user5389107

A part of functioning in any community is to deal with annoyances

hey

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Well, I don't appreciate that kind of joke either. We have something in common.

user5389107

I get anxious as hell when someone doesn't respond to me in time. Is that other people's problem? no

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@user5389107 It's not just an annoyance. It's horribly offensive to me.

user5389107

10:49

Well we have provisions for dealing with these comments

namely rude and nln comment flags

Rob

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You're not alone here. But you should also be aware, that other people have different views. And if you're friends with a person (as from my very brief interaction here, it seems to be the case), you should also be accepting of their view.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

How about here in chat?

user5389107

You gotta respect the procedure and priorities for dealing with annoyances the community has set

Rob

Not to say that you should change your opinion, but you should respect that they have a different view point.

hey

I actually lost word when the gender-bender topic suddenly came out of nowhere in this room... and I failed to do the right thing...

user310756

11:02

user310756

my little boy Padawan - growing growing

user5389107

soon you can ride him into battle

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

26

Q: Remove the arbitration clause from the Terms of Service

There is a lot of pushback against the new ToS, specifically the arbitration clause. The fact that the vast majority of people will not opt out due to not sending in snail mail within the first 30 days of notification is incredibly problematic. This move is greatly reducing the trust many people ...

feature-request legal terms-of-service arbitration-clause

user310756

this will take your minds off bad stuff

user310756

Little Padawan eating

►

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

11:24

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309839/…

user5389107

@YvetteColomb now I want a pet horse

You did this

Catija

11:49

@JNat I went and talked to a psychiatrist once and she said that my interactions on line didn't count as friendships. I never went back. I'm sure that there's some truth to that in some online communities but SE feels different to me. Especially with the mods.

hey

12:04

I regret(?) I didn't post this on MSE 😅

Apr 27 at 3:28, by hey

FR: Instead of a strict up/downvote, we need more reactions to the post.

15

A: Should we really allow thank you comments?

So... This is one of those ideas that sounds really caring. Who could possibly be against expressions of gratitude! I mean, sure, they get noisy for 3rd-party readers after a while, but hey, small cost compared to making authors feel good right? Well... After a while, they ain't that much fun f...

user5389107

@Catija If that were true my social life would be in a really poor place

TheLittleNaruto

Yo @journey Did you buy Team subscription ?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I am wondering how come javascript Tag is there on meta SE.

JNat

@Catija feels like there's some bias there, to some extent — I mean, that one person who sends you lives on Candy Crush, and that's your only interaction, isn't likely a "friend," I guess. But online interactions aren't all like that, and some are more meaningful than others, for sure.

Suraj Rao

@TheLittleNaruto you mean javascript

JNat

@user5389107 d'you work from home?

TheLittleNaruto

12:17

@SurajRao Isn't that what I wrote ? ^^

Suraj Rao

@TheLittleNaruto once on the internet history is not erased :P

TheLittleNaruto

Well. Unless you're not an undercover agent, you won't dig too much into history. :)

Suraj Rao

the tag is probably for stack snippets related stuff

TheLittleNaruto

Yes may be

Catija

@JNat And some lead to relationships or meeting up in person.

JNat

12:21

yup

Journeyman Geek

@TheLittleNaruto no. We just use WhatsApp like barbarians

Suraj Rao

@JourneymanGeek Well you could ask nicely like meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367320/…

user5389107

12:37

@JNat nah, but I'm typing this at work right now

rene

I've commented here: meta.stackexchange.com/a/309844/158100 maybe SE staff needs to check if they want to add anyting.

JNat

@user5389107 imagine if you did, then ;P

user5389107

@JNat Then basicly 95% of your social interaction happens in front of a screen

Not bad per say but certainly something you'd have to get used to

JNat

@user5389107 and without leaving the house

just saying that for people who don't consider these interactions as "real life" someone like that is clearly in a bad place :P

TheLittleNaruto

@JourneymanGeek LOLL

user5389107

12:50

@JNat tbh if I worked from home the ONLY thing that would make me leave the house would be grocery shopping and talking walks in the fields surrounding it

JNat

@user5389107 more like grocery "emergencies" — the weekly/monthly bulky thing you can do online too! :P

user5389107

@JNat I like to get fresh veg every 2 days though

decadent, I know. But my town has an amazing local market

JNat

good stuff — an excuse to leave every two days, then

Neil

If I worked from home, I would be dead serious about it, but I would also program in my pajamas

user5389107

I would probably lose my sense of dress completly and sit in my casual pants and tshirt 24/7/365

It's already bad since my office has no dress code

Neil

12:56

Pants with raspberry jelly stain and mustard stain on your collar

That would probably be me, unless I had to skype, in which case I'd make a point at least to wear a nice "visible" top part

JNat

@Neil you could always leave your camera off ;P

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