Tavern on the Meta

rene

17:03

People are berated, kicked or otherwise harassed for holding a room's culture to our code of conduct Can someone explain that sentence to me in Dutch or otherwise in some more plain English?

gunr2171

Does it mean "you should not hold your room's culture above the CoC"?

rene

I hope it means that

Princess Luna

Sounds about right

gunr2171

and/or does it mean "your room's culture is not the constitution, it's not the thing everyone MUST follow."?

rene

I rather not have this about right

πάντα ῥεῖ

17:06

@rene Isn't even asking such a sacrilege? /sarcasm off

rene

Maybe I dare to ping @Bart ...

gunr2171

People are berated, kicked, or otherwise harassed by trying to keep a room's culture inline with the Code of Conduct. Might be a better sentence.

rene

Maybe put a comment out on Tim's post then

I'm useless when it comes to these kind of grammar/meaning stuff

Makyen

@gunr2171 Yes. Edit the post, or leave a comment to clarify.

gunr2171

eh, now that I think about it, the original has more of an "accountability" tone, vs mine which is reactionary.

words, they're hard

rene

17:14

When they hit you, they hurt a lot ...

user5389107

Idk what's happening to stack but it feels like the social issues battleground problem that started a couple months ago on ips is infecting the whole network

user315433

@rene it means "twitter driven policy making"

user315433

With a Generous Helping of Title Case

πάντα ῥεῖ

@bro That's quite a real time thing.

rene

@bro that is a frightening future ...

user5389107

17:23

twitter really ought to go away. The reductive nature of it has set societal discourse back a lot

who am I kidding people are gonna be reductive and impossible to discuss with anyways

yagmoth555

a lot use twitter for venting/ranting imo, I just unfollow those users after

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title: Scraping product information from www.tikka.fi/rifles using python? by Matthew Hamilton on softwareengineering.SE

Sonic Wizard

17:50

This was edited:

-3

A: Were the changes to the time limits supposed to occur retroactively?

Area51 is not a collaborative process. It is run by Robert Cartaino. It is his toy to do with as he pleases. Everytime autonomous vehicles came close to completion, Robert would appear to shut down questions many of which were very much on topic, (I work in the automotive sector while Robert d...

user315433

19:10

> Yes, and... 1: New users don't know this, and 2: By that time the Formatting Nazi has already done the unwelcoming damage. But I did ask about down voting edits, and I will be more vigilant about addressing the issue on my own posts from now on. -- Pragmatic Praxis at 11:20 AM - 30 Apr 2018

user315433

More inclusive rhetorics from Twitter.

yagmoth555

the formatting damage is what ?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:25

@yagmoth555 editing posts is being a jerk

Have you edited a post?

There should be jail time for editors

They're so NOT inclusive

user315433

> Sorry to say but this things literally disgusting and we decrease popularity of stackoverflow meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/366931/…

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

How dare they impose their arbitrary will on poor, new users?

Aaaand I'm done. Hey @bwDraco

bwDraco

o/

user359686

\o

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

^o

That's bro hi

yagmoth555

19:33

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I edit a bit, but as I'am not native english so for me ppl tend to edit my post and I like that, and I think it's their the power of the community

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@yagmoth555 I was being sarcastic. Editors are awesome

I'm not a native speaker of English either

rene

edits "tanks in advantage" in all @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ's posts

yagmoth555

oh, sorry! hehe

user315433

> We were told about, and found: Blatant ageism meta.stackoverflow.com/a/366924

user315433

Sure, there's blatant ageism in the ToS about users under 13. Wasn't hard to find.

user315433

19:38

What could be worse than outright banning a demographic group from the site?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@rene you nazi formatting meanie evil poisonous flower!

Sterling Archer

I wonder if there's a correlation between stress and keeping up with PC standards as a CM

Because I'll be honest, it looks exhausting.

user315433

Yeah, one has to prioritize. By now the upper management is more in touch with the feminist agenda than with the sites.

Sterling Archer

Well, I'd be careful about classifying it like that

rene

@bro is that inline with the code of conduct?

Benjamin Gruenbaum

19:46

@bro ageism is towards old people though. When people refer to ageism it usually means that.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher No kidding

user315433

@BenjaminGruenbaum Boltclock's example is of the opposite nature.

user315433

@rene I'm not sure that anything that doesn't emanate from the liberal bubble of SE HQ is in line anymore.

rene

lol

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@bro BoltClock wasn't trusted by some due to his young age at a point, which is discrimination but not ageism.

Sonic Wizard

19:48

@bro That's mandatory because of U.S. law

Benjamin Gruenbaum

Here is the article which coined the term.

user315433

Well he posted that as an example of ageism under the linked answer, so I'm not the only one to interpret ageism both ways

rene

On ageism: you'll all get old, trust me ....

Sonic Wizard

By the way, if you think SO is ageist: One of their moderators (Ry, formerly Ryan, formerly minitech) was just 15 years old when he became an SO mod.

user315433

@SonicWizard No it is not. The law says you have to do some things if you serve users under 13. It was SE's decision to ban users under 13 because they don't want to bother.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

19:50

@SonicWizard BoltClock was moderator as teenager too - but individual examples don't dictate trends.

Sonic Wizard

@bro Most sites simply choose not to follow that guidelines because it would cost a lot of money to accept consent from parents.

user315433

@SonicWizard As we well know, the evidence of one person's success does not mean the absence of barriers to said success.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@SonicWizard most sites don't accept user content

Or hand moderate it if it's comments

Sonic Wizard

@BenjaminGruenbaum Email addresses are technically considered part of the "personal information" that sites are forbidden from collecting.

Sterling Archer

@rene considering how my lower back feels right now? yeah. I feel you.

Sonic Wizard

19:53

@SmokeDetector tpu-

Benjamin Gruenbaum

@SonicWizard there is nothing that prohibits sites collecting email addresses or identifiable information (except you have to take reasonable security measures and if the data is breached you are exposed to legal issues). There are laws protecting minors under 13 online to protect them from predators.

user315433

ageism

Noun: ageism (countable and uncountable, plural ageisms)

The treating of a person or people differently from others based on assumptions or stereotypes relating to their age.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

Are you referring to the fact that sites can't collect your email address without your consent or that you have a "right to be forgotten" and ask a site to remove all your personally identifiable information?

@bro read the wikipedia article it elaborates on it.

Sonic Wizard

And in case you weren't aware, SE used to suspend users who were under 13 until they turned 13. They stopped when their legal team advised them to do so.

user315433

As it says: mostly about old people, sometimes young.

Benjamin Gruenbaum

19:59

@SonicWizard which makes sense

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

55

Q: We're More Aggressively Enforcing Self-Moderation In Chat

While the timing of this post coincides with us expressing some serious concerns around how we're not doing a good job of helping and guiding Stack Overflow to remain a welcoming place for everyone, this is something that's been weighing heavily on our minds for quite some time, and applicable to...

Soooo, the thing that changed is when closing a troublesome room, there's is something to link to?

Or I missed stuff?

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ nope. No link will be posted, no excuses can be made, and the decision will be final. That's what changed.

Until now, people kept asking to reconsider and to unfreeze such rooms.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh.

Shadow Wizard

So this won't happen anymore. I mean they will be able to ask and plead, but from what I understand that Post means they won't get any response and there's no hope to undo the decision.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

So there's nothing for me to change, right? I can still be mean to @Mith and @Journeyman

Shadow Wizard

20:11

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ only here because they'll never close the Tavern. ;)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Aw yiss

Shadow Wizard

I mean, look at the alternative... Den...

:P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard wait, this one is the main room for meta.SE?

No way

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ no, room #1 is. Good luck getting access to it. ;)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard now I wonder what the previous 88 rooms were/are

Shadow Wizard

20:26

failed attempts

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard at being a tavern?

Shadow Wizard

each Shog tried 11 times then perished, to be replaced with a new Shog

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Or at being on the meta?

@ShadowWizard That's so dark

Shadow Wizard

So the 9th Shog was finally able to create this glorious Tavern, and so he survived. :P

rofl

Sterling Archer

Wait that came out wrong

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

20:28

Now I'm reminded of the baby turtles that get eaten unless they make it to the sea after they've just hatched

Shadow Wizard

oh hey it was good! :(

@SterlingArcher why?

Princess Luna

@bro More people feeling unwelcome? :p

Sterling Archer

I don't wanna get blasted on twitter :P

(joking)

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ exactly. Anyone said Meta is harsh place? They're correct. :D

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher I didn't see it 😡

Shadow Wizard

20:29

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ something involving comparing Jeff to God.

Sterling Archer

and you never will :O

Shadow Wizard

now he does! :D

Sterling Archer

D:

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Haha

Now, there's no limit to what I can do with this information

Shadow Wizard

Blast @Sterling on Twitter?

Sterling Archer

20:30

I'm so excited to see the Avengers movie in an hour <3

Shadow Wizard

@SterlingArcher buh... I'll see it only next week...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher whoa nice. Haven't even seen Black Panther yet :/

Shadow Wizard

3D? @Sterling

Sterling Archer

Oh crap I haven't seen Black Panther yet either

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'll see it in five months

Sterling Archer

20:31

@ShadowWizard yes! Nobody will go with me though, my brother is lame

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ you even have those movies in your cinema? Or you mean you download them and watch at home?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard the latter

Sterling Archer

I was going to see it opening night but I drove down to the beach instead

Shadow Wizard

@SterlingArcher too bad... you'll never know what happens.... :D

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Our cinemas suck

Sterling Archer

20:32

Haha first chance I get I'll watch BP

Shadow Wizard

@SterlingArcher hehe, I'm going with my sister. :)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher IIRC it didn't have much to do with the storyline

Sterling Archer

I'm sure it's still in an older theater around here somewhere

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

So you'd be safe

Sterling Archer

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ that's good to know

Oh oh oh did you guys see the new Venom trailer?

I <3 Tom Hardy

Shadow Wizard

20:33

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it explains what the Wakanda are.. and they do take part in the new movie, so...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Shrug

@SterlingArcher He's so cool

Sterling Archer

Warrior was probably one of the best fighting movies I've ever seen in my ever life

Also Taboo was a solid TV show, but I think it was cancelled?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher didn't watch it

Sterling Archer

> On March 8, 2017, Taboo was renewed for a second season on FX and BBC One.

YEAS

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I have lots of TV shows pending

Sterling Archer

20:35

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it was.... exceptional.

Just brilliant

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SterlingArcher you can say that again

Is SE slow for anyone else?

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ n... o....

Sterling Archer

not for me, but my brain is slow from the meta hell over the weekend

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Caaa ... psssshhht . . . Anyone hea . . . . Piiishhh psshht . . . Me

Mayday, mayday . . .

Shadow Wizard

fishing @M.A.R.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

20:39

Okay, gotta sleep now

Ciao

Sonic Wizard

Geez, just stop being so active all over the place. :) — Taryn ♦ 3 mins ago

Sonic Wizard

22:32

@Shadow chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309671/…

Jhoverit

23:09

Hey guys. I have a question that I don't want to make too deep... If this isn't the place for it let me know.
How is it that so many people are feeling oppressed due to gender/ethnicity/personal bias when no one on this site has any capability of finding those things out? I have clearly missed something. ANd yes this question is sort of in reference to _the_ post.

I am not a regular user here. So if this isn't appropriate or has been rustling feathers definitely bin please.

In short: How can one be biased against when one is anonymous

πάντα ῥεῖ

Well, @yvette addressed that to some point: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309612/…

Maybe Hey guys isn't the best start on this. :3

2

Jhoverit

@πάνταῥεῖ Lmfao

Catija

Related: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/2802/… Interesting, the community consensus is "yes"... but "y'all" seems a bit more all-encompassing.

Jhoverit

Good post, don't really see it directly referencing the anonymity tho. If anyone wants my opinion it's that we should be totally and entirely blind to each other's race, color, ethnicity, gender decisions etc and completely avoid the entire problem haha

Catija

It was related to @πάνταῥεῖ 's message, not your question.

... unless you were talking to someone else.

@Jhoverit Anyway, there was a MSO question about that exactly... you're conflating two things... someone actually intentionally being rude because of someone's race/gender/etc isn't the same as someone feeling like they're being oppressed for those reasons. The actions of people may not be related to those issues but rude responses may be felt more deeply by people who already have trouble being accepted in the programming community.

Jhoverit

23:17

Holy meta chat ping sound. Scared me

Catija

49

Q: Is it possible to know the gender or race of another Stack Overflow user?

The recent blog post brings up some important observations about the Stack Overflow community. In particular, the paragraph about bias suggests to me that it is often possible to know another user's gender or race. For example, We don’t tolerate our female users being called “sweetie” or get...

discussion behavior gender

It's the best. :D (chat ping sound)

Jhoverit

@Catija I am trying to avoid specifically mentioning the second case. Tho that is what I'm getting towards

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Jhoverit Did you go opening the door? Swhooosh ...

Jhoverit

Good posts, thanks living entities

If you are in fact alive

This is hard I'm going back to "guys"

user5389107

@Catija Do you feel that's worth addressing?

I'm an example of people that feel criticism more deeply because I get shit on all the time because of my sexuality and mental illnesses. Does that mean the fact that I get irrationally sad and angry over comments isn't my problem and that other people need to acquiesce to that?

Catija

23:22

@user5389107 That's what the blog post is addressing. Users have made it about actual racism/sexism but it's about those users feeling like they're being picked on for their race/gender.

> Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.

user5389107

I don't feel like I have a right to expect the community to put up with more from me just because I have issues

Catija

They experience it... meaning that their feelings about the site is that way.

user5389107

Well yeah but experience in and of itself is meaningless

I experience my coworkers as hostile sometimes, that doesn't mean they are or need to change, that just means that I'm not a good bar for objective measurement

Catija

@user5389107 Nope. And I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. The reality is, some comments and answers are rude, regardless of who they're directed at. If we fix that, we will reduce the numbers of people feeling like they're being discriminated against.

user5389107

I mean yeah in general I agree

Catija

23:24

Nothing SE does will ever make it impossible for someone to feel that way. People feel the way they feel.

user5389107

But this whole discussion feels like people arguing for special consideration for decidedly me-issues

Catija

What SE wants to do is help reduce the likelihood that those users will feel that way by encouraging users to be more welcoming and less rude in their comments.

This will improve things across the board.

user5389107

That's not the vibe I've been getting at all

If that's the end outcome then fair enough though

Catija

Shog's explained it a bit in here using the curb cuts analogy and I think it's a good one. Have you seen that?

Jhoverit

Thats acyually not the vibe I've been getting at all either but it's eye opening.

user5389107

23:26

@Catija Not sure I have, link?

Jhoverit

In that view they may have actually done a really, realy good job with that blog post

It's hard to wrap your head around it that way tho.

Catija

I think that part of the complication is that the blog post needed to directly respond to all of the allegations regarding sexism/racism on SO. If it hadn't, the people making the allegations would have been very disappointed and responded by complaining about SO's tone-deaf response and continued ignoring of their concerns.

@user5389107 ... let me find it...

Apr 27 at 18:15, by Shog9

There's also the curb-cut effect: changes that make the system more accessible to one group can benefit everyone. NYC is kinda infamous for their inaccessible subway stations, going so far as to fund cab fare for disabled persons instead of fixing elevators or installing ramps... Of course, that does nothing for a weary shopper with a basket of groceries or an otherwise-fit person with an unexpected twisted ankle. By targeting specific groups they've given up a much larger potential benefit to everyone. — Shog9 ♦ 3 hours ago

user5389107

@Catija tbh if you mean the twitter brigade and april with "the people who made the complaints" then dismissing/not adressing them at all wouldn't really have been a loss

These people aren't going to be satisfied unless we turn SO into a hugbox like askquestions.tech and sacrifice 90% of it's usability in the process

Catija

Not for you. But I think that it's reasonable for them to do so. And I think that there will be many more blog posts that come up in the near future that address them more directly with data.

Jhoverit

Linking the implicit bias test did a great job at alienating all the legitimately non-racist users tho lol

user5389107

23:29

I'm really not a fan of that implicit bias test

Jhoverit

No normal person is..

user5389107

it is so easy to even subconsciously game and several of the creators acknowledge how useless it is in generating anything actionable

Jhoverit

Anyway, good talk I gotta head out

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Jhoverit Guess who I am now after a spring-cleaning of my profile text.

Jhoverit

@πάνταῥεῖ A german man

Was that the question? lol

πάντα ῥεῖ

23:31

Read the details ;-)

Catija

For all you know, they may have data which may or may not support those feelings of disparate treatment. They may show that there is actually across-the-board equal treatment of all new users with similarly poor-quality questions... but I'm really interested to see what it does show.

Jhoverit

It just says "TM"

πάντα ῥεῖ

^That

Jhoverit

Lol forgive me father for I am lost af

Catija

@user5389107 I think the important thing right now is to remind yourself that there's more to come. This weekend of discussion is but an opening salvo and SO, Inc. isn't ready to put this to bed. They love data... and they're good with it.

user5389107

23:35

I'm hoping more important efforts aren't falling by the wayside in the way of this discussion

user315433

@Catija Case in point: Project Reduplication of Deduplication Has Begun! by Tim Post on meta.stackexchange.com

user315433

A lot of data acquired, leading to .... ahem.

user315433

(That was 2016)

Catija

It's a matter of triage for them. If they get Teams under control, they may have some manpower to allocate to this while they're in bug-fixing mode for Teams. Network culture issues have long needed some attention, both on the site and in chat and I'm glad to see it get some attention... Based on the response from Tim and Jay, they, at least, seem to think that these are extremely important issues for SE to address...

The difficulty is that right now they're sort of short on cash (or at least that's what November tells me), so they've had to focus on sources of revenue. If they feel like they're getting to a stable place with that (due to new ad revenue sources, site sponsorships, and Teams income, etc), it gives them the chance to address things that aren't about cashflow.

Andras Deak

hey

πάντα ῥεῖ

23:41

o/

Andras Deak

oh look, a panta :)

Journeyman Geek

@Catija I'm not sure that's a great argument. This hasn't happened overnight

Jon Ericson

@Catija Honestly, this is the best thing to happen in many years, if you care about Q&A.

Andras Deak

what's the etiquette situation with discussing the etiquette situation here?

user5389107

@Catija I'm not convinced yet that teams is even gonna work

Catija

23:41

@JourneymanGeek I specifically said "have long needed some attention"...

user5389107

Feels like it'll end like docs will

Journeyman Geek

Ehh

πάντα ῥεῖ

@AndrasDeak Stay calm by all means :3

user315433

@AndrasDeak No Twitter flame about Tavern transcript yet.

Journeyman Geek

Teams will likely survive in some fashion.

user5389107

23:42

@JonEricson If you guys end up making positive changes instead of kowtowing to the people who won't be satisfied until you've turned SO into a activist hugbox

Andras Deak

I'm as cool as a cucumber

user5389107

jury is still out on which way that'll swing

user315433

(feels like we're being neglected)

Catija

@user5389107 Eh. I'm not sure I'm a fan of how it's been implemented but that's not really anything I have any say in.

For example, I really, really don't like it being baked in to SO.

user5389107

the UI is irritating as hell right now with how integrated it is

Jon Ericson

23:44

@user5389107 Well, I've talked to outsiders about Docs (before the beta) and Teams (after they starting using it). I'm confident the users of Teams knows what it is and I don't think anyone (including many in the company) understood Docs. Still, it could fail miserably. Too soon to know.

Andras Deak

The reason I came because there was a really weird thing on SO main just now. Question is the usual low-quality unindented mess, OP gets some helpful responses trying to make their question answerable, there's one somewhat snarky comment after a while. Then OP flips out that everyone is so rude, and links the blog post. Later there are some further passive-aggressive mentions of assholes, then the question is closed then self-deleted then the asker is deleted (!).

Any chance people are testing/baiting SO main to troll/aid their own narrative?

Catija

Yep. It seems to me that it would have been significantly simpler to build on the already-existent beta site structure and just make private sites. This is much more welcoming to groups who'd like teams that have nothing to do with programming at all.

user5389107

@AndrasDeak wouldn't surprise me

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak yes

Jon Ericson

@user5389107 Many people are so easily distracted by the circumstances rather than the substance of that post. Here's my current thoughts:

25

A: Does Stack Exchange really want to conflate newbies with women/people of color?

For the last 6 years or so, the system has blocked between 40-50% of all attempts to ask questions. The trend has been increasing without much work being done to add blocks. Clearly some people just give up. But even more clearly, some people are persistent enough to get around all the barriers w...

user5389107

23:46

@JonEricson The tone and specifics of the blog post didn't do much to help that

Journeyman Geek

But that dosen't preclude polite constructive behavior

Andras Deak

Any chance we or the mods or the CMs can do anything about it? I'm sick of realizing that I'm starting to treat questions on main like possible audits. And not the "make sure you do it right" part of audits, but the "what if this is an upvoted piece of crap audit" kind

user5389107

@AndrasDeak The only winning move is not to play

It's the same like on IPS

Catija

Someone being snarky in the comments and someone else reacting extremely negatively is exactly the problem... it doesn't really matter if it was testing the waters... unless the person being snarky was a plant, the snarkiness shouldn't have happened and should have been flagged.

Andras Deak

> From a non coding perspective, how on Earth can you surmise that mood scale from asking a user a 1-50 question? How do you know a user who's sad will put numbers in the range of 40-49??

user5389107

23:48

people ask questions just asking for it and then make a big show of moaning when the inevitable few idiots happen that always happen, as if that's an additional indictment of the site

Andras Deak

hardly flaggable

Vogel612's Shadow

@AndrasDeak s/on Earth//

Andras Deak

Yeah, hence snark. But please don't tell me that you think anything like this should be flagged as rude!

user5389107

raising a comment flag on that I'd expect it to get declined

Andras Deak

this sounds like the worst kind of censorship, and all in the name of being inclusive

Vogel612's Shadow

23:49

meh. it would be.

on the other hand comments are ephemeral

πάντα ῥεῖ

The presumption that women/men/minorities always feel discriminated is preliminary sexist/racist. There's the bias already. Same for some majorities calling themselves noobs.

user315433

Catija

@πάνταῥεῖ Where did anyone say that?

@bro Don't even get me started on that... those are about the worst thing to ever hit medicine.

Andras Deak

For scale, here's OP's first rude response

> Can you guys pause being elitist condescending rude for one second and actually help me figure out what I'm doing wrong? If there are errors tell me so. I'll rephrase the questions, If i knew what I was doing I wouldn't be asking for help would i?

user315433

Well, people read the post and acquired some vocabulary from it. Good for them.

Vogel612's Shadow

23:52

yea that one's probably flaggable.

user315433

An idea: eliminate all comments, replacing them by per-post chatrooms.

Journeyman Geek

Flag it and move on

Andras Deak

and that one wasn't even the "thanks for helping, at least not everyone's an asshole" (or something along those lines; that one has been deleted quick)

Catija

@bro People hate chat.

Vogel612's Shadow

there's hope to steer that conversation back to the actual topic, but that really needs skill

Journeyman Geek

23:53

If you think someone is trying to pick a fight, why give them one?

user315433

You have 100 comment flags per day... I use 100/100 of mine every day.

Andras Deak

My issue is that I think more and more users will arrive here with a chip on their shoulders, waiting for that one snarky guy to leave a comment so thay can say "I KNEW IT! I'M BEIGN OPPRESSED"

and this sucks

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Catija Me™

Journeyman Geek

@Catija maaaaaan

Catija

Sounds like SO needs an increase in comment flags.

Vogel612's Shadow

23:53

@AndrasDeak don't take the bait, then.

user315433

@Catija Good. So they'll only use it when really needed, not when they just feel like throwing in 2c

Catija

@πάνταῥεῖ As a woman, I can tell you that I do not always feel discriminated against.

Journeyman Geek

I have a feeling some folks want chat gone, or think it's unimportant

Andras Deak

@Vogel612'sShadow I never did, I didn't even leave a comment, but this doesn't stop me from being concerned

user315433

@AndrasDeak That sounds like a hypothetical problem. I don't like those.

user315433

23:54

Plenty of real ones.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Catija That's exactly my point. Assuming so would be sexist thinking and bias.

Andras Deak

@bro I came here because I think I witnessed just that

either just that, or plain trolling

Vogel612's Shadow

you sure the user was deleted?

Catija

@bro Um... not really. Chat is horrible for actually seeing the content of the messages and wading through them. The quality of help for the OP would diminish.

Jon Ericson

@AndrasDeak Are you talking about this question? The OP is kinda a jerk.

user315433

23:55

@AndrasDeak You witnessed 1, not "more and more"

Andras Deak

@JonEricson No, that's unrelated.

@bro okay

Catija

@πάνταῥεῖ Ah. Cool.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija hah. Some of my users swear by it for troubleshooting.

Andras Deak

the question I'm talking about had its OP deleted a few minutes after the whole ordeal. That's why I figured something might be off

Catija

If the OP was on a new account and had no site participation, they can self delete their accounts immediately...

Vogel612's Shadow

23:57

@πάνταῥεῖ which still begs the question why you chose to formulate that statement...

Andras Deak

@Catija oh, I did not know that

Catija

If you link to the actual post (you seem to be able to see it) Jon can look at it.

Andras Deak

then perhaps it's just a rage quit once they've lost their chip

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Vogel612'sShadow Because that kind of bias raised discussions.

Andras Deak

I didn't want to create too much drama. But then again the asker is deleted, so... stackoverflow.com/questions/50109099/…

Journeyman Geek

23:59

Or they're going to tweet about it shortly...

Vogel612's Shadow

@πάνταῥεῖ I'm not up-to-date on the latest in all the chaos...

Andras Deak

If I'd known that new users can instant-self-delete I wouldn't have thought much of it

Catija

Well, if they were going to tweet about it, deleting the post was a bit counteractive... if you can't link to it, there's not much to corroborate your accusation.

πάντα ῥεῖ

People aren't "victims" per se, and should not be considered so. That's the wrong way to handle that.

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