Tavern on the Meta

user315433

00:17

I'd understand it if closure banners showed the last-used name of a deleted user... but they appear to show whatever name they had at the time of question closure.

user315433

I got 10K on Math again, and of course delete all the things... in the process encountering questions that were closed by "pizza", "Woodface", "Sally", etc.

Shog9

Those bastards. Good thing someone's around to clean up their mess.

Journeyman Geek

"again" 0o

@TelKitty That's no Bear...

(and the not-bear goes "That's a moon")

user202362

two half moons divided by a valley :x

Shog9

There are quite a few areas where two bits of ID are stored: an ID and a name. The ID is usually (not always... JSON columns are fun) a foreign key, so it gets cleaned up by necessity during deletion. The name is pretty much just there as backup, so that if/when the ID goes away there's still something to differentiate between all of the stuff.

Oh - and this is all really old.

Some bits of deletion have gotten updated to also re-write names when detaching keys... But others have not.

Close history entries have a dual advantage: nothing really tries to patch it up and it's a brick of JSON, so if anything ever wants to it'll probably take ages.

hichris123

00:25

@SFTP Update: accepted to first choice school (deferred EDI).

user315433

Congrats

hichris123

Thanks!

user315433

When do you have to decide?

user315433

For graduate schools it's April 15, but I am not familiar with undergrad process.

hichris123

May 1st is undergrad decision day.

Catija

00:45

@Shog9 Do you think that the changes to comment pinging for Teams will affect some of those?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@SFTP Doctor Who would be proud

Ha, the newest SO election candidate has been annoying and fun

Journeyman Geek

01:01

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek lovely audience, but my stand-up comedy show hasn't started yet

Journeyman Geek

Take-a-stand-up comedy? Have a seat good sir. it is padded and has straps.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'd say I qualify for mod since I'm not suspended

user202362

I have not be suspended for 12 months either

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@TelKitty I use better capitalization

user202362

01:04

ಠ_ಠ

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@TelKitty ಠ_ಠ u

Journeyman Geek

I've never been suspended anywhere. (I don't have the rep though). And I'm not afraid of crashing and burning gloriously. ;p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek you're terrible at some stuff I can't disclose because of them being private information

See? I'd be the most awesome mod of all

Taking my contact seriously

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ HELP HELP I AM BEING OPPRESSED BEHOLD THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM! ITS INHUMANE!

(for once, that one typo is intentional)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Why does Windows Update fail with error code 0x80248015 for Windows 7? by Lauren Parr on superuser.com

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

01:08

Oh right, you also lack the power to use apostrophes

@SmokeDetector K

Every mod should have the power to control apostrophes

user202362

@JourneymanGeek you lack the brutality needed in the web police

Journeyman Geek

@TelKitty Letting people hoist themselves on their own petard is so much more fun

angussidney

@SmokeDetector What do you all think about this post? User is new today, first and only post, linked site seems to show Windows 10 (not 7 as in the question)

Journeyman Geek

@angussidney known spammer

angussidney

Here's a list of previous posts that we've caught by that domain: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/domains/19275

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

01:13

@angussidney it's spam

angussidney

@JourneymanGeek ok, I just couldn't seem to find a conclusive parttern in their past spam posts

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Typical spam template: "here's step one. This link is step two"

Journeyman Geek

@angussidney The generic white person name (no offence) is a typical giveaway. ;p

and I recognised the URL

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek well, if people take Indian names to post low quality questions, they should also take white names to post spam :p

@JourneymanGeek the URL recognized you as well

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Blah, INDIAN SPAMMERS! RUSSIAN SPAMMERS! ALL SENT TO /DEV/NULL!

also, there's some geographical variability I can't talk about

I think the toolkits are spreading

angussidney

01:17

Thanks for your advice

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@angussidney kthxbye

angussidney

Always helpful to get a second/third opinion

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek make sure to wash your hands before meals

Journeyman Geek

Not enough fire in the world

Interestingly the company that owns it seems australian based

Shog9

@Catija you've seen what it does, right?

I have no idea how deletion will handle that

or if it does

I think the current plan might be "don't delete teams users"

not sure how or if that'll ever make it into public SO

user310756

02:22

user202362

lol

user310756

@TelKitty you've changed your name?

user202362

Yeah, back to original one

user310756

ikr

user310756

you love the piggie usbs? we cannot do one of these in chickens O>O

user202362

02:23

~_~

user310756

I miss chicken .. she laid those eggs and many of them weren't eaten

user202362

02:44

user202362

@YvetteColomb one of my chooks :p

user310756

03:02

@TelKitty is this a new chook?

Catija

@Shog9 On the surface... sure... autocompletes to anyone on the Team, links to their profile. Not sure if it will adapt if the username is changed (I don't know if anyone's tested it)... that's the part I was curious about. I think making all of a site's user's pingable would be horrid and the top users would revolt... but if the part of the code that ties the ping to the user account can keep up with the account name, that might be useful.

user202362

@YvetteColomb yeah, bought 3 new chicks about a month ago

user310756

@Catija I hope I didn't scare you out of the election room

user310756

@TelKitty awwwww

user310756

awesome - more pics please, how old ??

Shog9

03:04

@Catija it does; internally it's storing the user ID you're pinging.

user202362

4 weeks when I bought them, so about 2 months now

Catija

A lot of people seem to want to have directed comments update to match... there was even a discussion about it on SFF meta recently.

user202362

will take more pictures in the evening

user310756

good

Catija

Ah, that makes sense. So right now, it's just storing the plain text info and only pings someone initally.

Shog9

03:06

@Catija So, here's the thing: what do you do when a user is deleted and they've been pinged in hundreds of comment threads?

right now, nothing - there's nothing to do. The comments the user wrote get attributed to usernnnnn, the comments directed at them still @-ping whatever their name was at the time.

That's not a great artifact

Catija

But the comments they wrote switch to their original usernumber

Shog9

But... @@{284336} or whatever ain't either

Catija

But on the deleted user page doesn't it store the user284336 format?

Shog9

@Catija there is no deleted user page

user315433

The author of a comment is a column in table Comments. The "user mentioned in a comment" is not.

Shog9

03:09

The way to go here is probably to re-write comments that reference a to-be-deleted user on deletion, replacing the ping with user284336 or whatever. Now it matches the comments (and posts) from the deleted user.

Catija

There's that stub page.

Shog9

But... I don't actually know if that's been done, or if it will be done, or if it can be done.

user315433

What if Comments.UserNotifiedId was a thing? Given that the API has something like that.

Shog9

@Catija the one moderators see? That doesn't actually exist; there's a bit of logic that searches the logs for a record of a user with that ID being deleted and renders it if a moderator visits that page.

Catija

Ah.

Shog9

03:10

For all intents and purposes, when a user is deleted they're gone. There's no "isdeleted" flag, or stub user. Just a bunch of pieces that can kinda be matched up if you don't mind that most of 'em are missing.

Catija

Then what you said up a bit would make sense... as part of the deletion process, rewrite anything that's directed at them... which will catch most of it. If someone just says the user's username without pinging them, no dice, but otherwise, it will update.

Shog9

@SFTP there's a ReplyToUser field, that may or may not correspond to an @-ping (a lot of the rules for replies are implicit)

Catija

But if the logic were written for username changes (not deletions) - which would be more common with high-rep, often pinged users... then part of the deletion process would be a name change, so it could be rolled in?

Shog9

This actually isn't used in Teams, since Teams lets you ping multiple users in a single comment.

Catija

Oooh, I didn't notice that.

This is why I would suck at software testing. I like writing up reports when stuff fails... I just rarely test things.

Shog9

03:15

@Catija you get this free with Teams pings, since they're stored as userID references instead of by name (you get autocomplete to help you select the right ID, and the details are mostly hidden, but that's how it works - you'll notice that partial pings don't work... At least you will if you're in the habit of typing @Jon and hitting enter).

user315433

Any chance of main site backporting.

Catija

Yeah, I had made that leap... which makes sense.

Shog9

@Catija most folks don't give testing enough respect.

user315433

Like, you know... Markdown tables from Docs to posts.

Shog9

grumble grumble

There's a chance. Donno how much of one. Was kinda written to a Teams-specific spec, which... I wish we did less of, but hey - just technical debt, right?

In theory, no reason we couldn't just limit who shows up in autocomplete and # of pings/comment and have it work.

But, we would have to figure out stuff like deletion first. (maybe we have; I haven't looked at this recently)

user315433

03:55

> Specifically: I've been feeding every comment posted, every flag and every deletion into just such a categorizer for the past 3 months, after an initial test-run with data from the previous year produced good results. -- Shog9 at 7:31 PM - 16 Mar 2018

user315433

I recall @hichris123 was doing something like that once upon a time.

user315433

Was it through API /comments polling? Had to be.

Catija

04:09

Well, my job here is done.

Happy St. Patrick's Day, all!

user315433

05:52

Hrm. Long ago, I used to flag by M F 1 Enter. But now 1 only focuses the "spam" option, without actually selecting it.

user315433

So it's M F 1 Space Enter :(

user315433

06:23

> We are running a robot which continuously monitors all the comments on @StackOverflow, and reports them in chat. Called Heat Detector ( stackapps.com/q/7001 ), it uses the dataset provided by @StackExchange ( meta.stackoverflow.com/q/326494 ). Do join us, if you are interested! #NoSnark -- SOBotics at 11:12 PM - 16 Mar 2018

user315433

I didn't know about that.

user315433

Comments and comment flags get a lot less attention on meta.

user315433

Still annoying that comment flags cannot be retracted.

Journeyman Geek

comments are kinda "eh"

and comment flags are a wee bit odd ;p

user315433

@JourneymanGeek In Twitter mentions of @StackOverflow they are pretty prominent. Nobody says "I got shat on in comments, but that's ok because comments are second-class citizens."

Journeyman Geek

06:30

@SFTP well no one really has a clear idea of whether comments matter or not

On one hand, they are second class citizens, On the other people do get affected by them, on the gripping hand....

user315433

People on the receiving end of them do.

Journeyman Geek

Well if they're rude abusive or no longer needed, you can flag em

but we don't have the full mechanics, or the accessibility a regular post has on a flag

user315433

1 rep users cannot flag

user315433

And they are the ones who are most likely to get it in comments.

HTTP

07:14

Happy Day of Silence!

goes to silent mode

user202362

International Day of Happiness

The International Day of Happiness is celebrated worldwide every March 20, and was conceptualized and founded by philanthropist, activist, statesman, and prominent United Nations special advisor Jayme Illien to inspire, mobilize, and advance the global happiness movement. In 2011, Illien brought the idea and concept of creating a new global day of awareness, the International Day of Happiness, to senior United Nations Officials. Illien successfully campaigned to unite a global coalition of all 193 United Nations member states, and secured the endorsement of then Secretary-General of the United...

rene

07:29

Happy!

Journeyman Geek

SILENCE!

rene

reopen-pls not a duplicate at all meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308072/…

Journeyman Geek

@rene done my needful

rene

thanks

@ShadowWizard please rectify your erroneous close vote ^^

user202362

08:29

user202362

maybe Stackexchange should consider suspend less accounts?

user202362

higher suspension rates translate to higher offend rate the above article seems to suggest

Journeyman Geek

@TelKitty bit of a false equivilence there

user202362

I think this might make a good SEM (SE meta) question

Journeyman Geek

Go ask. ;p

Weekends are quiet anyway

user202362

08:34

lemme think how to phrase it lazily

Journeyman Geek

unrelatedly, there needs to be a reopenhammer ._.

@TelKitty I personally consider suspensions a last resort for users who arn't bad enough to nuke.

Especially the longer ones

user202362

I agree

Journeyman Geek

And arn't that common I suspect, compared to the overall numbers of people in a community

and well, we don't have many tools outside being convincing, suspension or the nuclear option for many situations

Shadow Wizard

@rene done

rene

08:51

thanks

SmokeDetector

11:45

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Where will I get top class music stream through online? If possible please mention some free site :) by miniara parvin on superuser.com

rene

12:08

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

rene

12:20

streaming started ...

Princess Luna

@rene over the fact that the SE network will become read only in 32 minutes? screams

rene

I'll let you know when they get ahead of schedule ...

Journeyman Geek

12:38

The video quality is a bit naff :(

rene

yeah ...

Journeyman Geek

ooh, that's something I didn't hear about - that ~~channels~~ teams will be running on databases on VMs...

rene

I guess due to the less load it can work on VM's

Journeyman Geek

yup, and possibly its a way to keep the data seperate.

(containers, or proper VMs I wonder)

They keep getting the names mixed up lol.

rene

That will take a while to adjust ...

Those windows updates might spoil things ...

rene

13:04

I hear disconnect ...

Journeyman Geek

bluefeet's hair suddenly showed up I think

rene

Yep, she's on the box with windows update

Journeyman Geek

yup

Catija

Why is the site still working!!!???!!! :P

Taryn

stop watching me :P

Journeyman Geek

13:07

They're waiting for windows update to finish before they accidentally things.

Taryn

we're having a few issues

Catija

Whee!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

A hammer can fix it probably

Journeyman Geek

I'm vaguely trying to keep up, but 0_0 even complexity aside, everything is so different 0_0

Catija

I've recently become confused by the use of DAG for this and for Joe's team :P

Journeyman Geek

13:09

lol

Princess Luna

@Catija PANIC! :p

Journeyman Geek

Overloading is a thing, like there's probably a dozen things called teams, SO Inc or Otherwise

@PrincessLuna no no, Everything goes dark, then we panic.

Princess Luna

No, we panic now since the delay of start means delay of end and less time to be the FGITW :p

Catija

Anyone else respond to "It has appeared" with "battle stances!"?

Journeyman Geek

heh, I never FGITW.

Princess Luna

13:13

Still though, how am I supposed to keep up my ~~addiction~~ rep if I can't answer stuff?! :p

Journeyman Geek

heh, its nighttime for me

I'd just go to bed ;p

and sat and sunday are oddly the quietest main site times for me

Catija

I'm making Andy coffee while he tries to get Ben in clothes... There's lots of crying in the next room.

Journeyman Geek

Poor Andy. You should hand him a hankie.

Catija

I'm making him coffee... One thing at a time... I'm pretty sure that the coffee is more important than the tears :P

Princess Luna

lol

Journeyman Geek

13:17

hmm, salty coffee...

Catija

A51 Meta... The Discussion Zone? :P

Blips!

@Oded It's not A51's fault :P

Oded

Chat about to go r/o?

Catija

From what they were saying last night, chat may not be too affected?

SNAFU

We're about to take all Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites into read-only mode for our SQL 2017 upgrade. We'll also go full maintenance for a few minutes and then back online.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on March 17, 2018 at 1:26 PM

Oded

Will see. Depends on how long it takes to upgrade. If they are failing over then possibly be very short downtime.

@Catija it is a very old cut of the Q&A codebase that's not gotten much love. Ever.

Catija

13:34

AHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Journeyman Geek

yup

Catija

This is going to be really confusing to follow for anyone who's catching up later.

rene

chat blip

Catija

Was that it?

rene

I dunno, something on chat failed over

and we're still here so I guess it went OK

Taryn

13:39

blip

Catija

It got really quiet all of a sudden.

I was tempted to ping you, @Taryn

Taryn

I heard it

Oded

20 second blip for chat

Not bad.

Catija

MSE is RO.

Vogel612's Shadow

everything is RO.

rene

13:41

Teams is not only readonly but not serving at all @Taryn, I get 404 on those channels

Vogel612's Shadow

apart from chat

Princess Luna

Chat's fine for now at least

It'll probably go RO for a while too

Catija

Not even RO any more...

Vogel612's Shadow

that is a lot of errors

Catija

... Meaning it's completely offline.

Journeyman Geek

13:43

heh, I was doing something potentially ill advised, that might end in literal fire...

Catija

Save the dog!

Journeyman Geek

(ordered a drone battery to replace an entirely unrelated battery

Oded

se.com & all Q&A sites besides SO seem to be offline.

And back.

@Vogel612'sShadow 20k in a few seconds? Not a lot.

Seen millions in a few seconds on those systems :P

Taryn needz moar coffee

rene

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@rene brews a cup of Ristretto for @rene

Journeyman Geek

13:54

....

rene

there we go

Journeyman Geek

I think @SmokeDetector needs the caffeine more than you do

SNAFU

We're done with the failover and are now upgrading the former primaries to SQL 2017. Everything went pretty smoothly, thanks for bearing with us! Still streaming at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5tOodr4ouc if you have questions!

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on March 17, 2018 at 1:54 PM in reply to Nick_Craver

Journeyman Geek

14:09

heh, now I want to play on mssql on linux again, but there's not much that one can install and run that needs it ._.

Bitwarden uses it, and runs a whole .net/mssql stack, but is designed to be run on docker containers

and ugh, you don't really learn anything that way

rene

14:34

I'm collecting compliments: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308096/…

Journeyman Geek

did he mispell...

Catija

Living life loosely is a good thing.

@JourneymanGeek misspell... lack of punctuation... all sorts of fun.

Wait... there's five people now?

Journeyman Geek

amusingly the only ones I think I know are Bluefeet, Nick (from twitter) and I think the guy in dramatic darkness is Mike? (who I'm unfamiliar with)

Catija

The Australian is new, I think?

Ooooh, someone likes their keyboards clicky! :D

Journeyman Geek

naw

the aussie has been around a while

Serverfault mod too!

Catija

14:43

I mean in the live stream.

... I'm watching all of this but have no clue what anything they say means.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I blame jeff

Catija

Why?

Journeyman Geek

@Catija I dabble in servers and I get very little of it ;p

Catija

I told Andy this morning that they use SQL Server and he was surprised that they use a Windows product for SO. HAHA

Journeyman Geek

hah

Both Jeff and Joel were ex MS I think

and it was the stack they knew best?

then... ya, lots of mad performance tuning

rene

14:47

Joel was, Excel PM

Journeyman Geek

Joel is... relatively new ;p

(AKA, we can only blame new stuff on him ;p)

@Catija Jeff's a notable keyboard geek

even literally has his own custom keyboard (the code) built by WASD to his specs.

...

I just confused Joel and Joe Friend....

I blame... I donno.

Catija

... Late night brain?

Journeyman Geek

a bit

Catija

Joe worked for MS Office, the Ribbon :D

Journeyman Geek

ya

Catija

14:52

I don't know anything about Spolsky.

Apparently Wikipedia knows they year he was born but not the day.

Really, though, the problem is that SE has too many people on staff with names that start with "J".

Journeyman Geek

;p

and its late ;p

ugh bedtime

I nearly wafflefaced

hichris123

@SFTP Yeah, if I remember correctly I found the last comment's creation_time and just polled every couple minutes for comments since that time.

HTTP

15:08

... did I miss the whole blips?

Vogel612's Shadow

@JourneymanGeek actually we can blame VBA on Joel

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

16:07

@Catija Jog9

Princess Luna

@JourneymanGeek Someone said waffles??

Did you bring enough for everyone??

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@PrincessLuna nah, he's too selfish

Princess Luna

Oh :c And here I was looking forward to getting my waffles in the mail in 6-8 weeks... :p

HTTP

There are a lot of waffles... in @JourneymanGeek 's dream

Princess Luna

~~blue ones?~~

SmokeDetector

17:55

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How many grams will be used in a print by mostafa Ahmed Hegazy on 3dprinting.SE

user315433

18:09

> As more new programmers learn Python, our expertise becomes ever more valuable, and we will see that reflected in our salaries, our job opportunities, and our job security.

user315433

I'm not following the logic there. But an interesting article

user315433

How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

user315433

... those screenshots don't look real to me

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Edit "Read more" and "Add new comment" links in teaser in Drupal 8 by Andy on drupal.SE

user315433

The posts are real: stackoverflow.com/a/43564129 and stackoverflow.com/a/44402734. Both were red-flag deleted within minutes. The article presents them as something that's visible on the site.

user315433

18:23

> Wife really wanted a bullsnake. I now know what 5-foot of angry perpetual hissing bitey rage looks like. And no, I don't mean the wife. I would add video, but I'm aware some people don't like seeing sneks in their feed. -- Marc Gravell at 11:20 AM - 17 Mar 2018

SmokeDetector

19:07

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Online LaTeX diagram graphical editor by dacastror on tex.SE

HTTP

19:21

🐍

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@HTTP if I kiss that, will it turn into a prince?

Oh hold on

It's an irrelevant snake emoji, not an irrelevant frog emoji

user315433

I can deal with snakes in my feed, but don't want to see snakes dealing with their feed.

user315433

19:41

> to say that there will be Eunuchs in the kingdom of God is meant that all NON celestial beings shall be eunuchs christianity.stackexchange.com/a/62701/37553

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Trying to install CiviCRM 4.7.6 under Wordpress get you do not have sufficient permissions to access this site by Chantel on civicrm.SE

SmokeDetector

19:51

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: What is the difference between a transaction and a call? by sokolartnau on ethereum.SE

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ no, into a @Princess

Princess Luna

lol

Shadow Wizard

@SFTP I had lots of snakes in my house in the past. (lived in a village)

> Member for 1 year, 5 months o_O

user315433

20:40

> Sometimes, I run out of delete/close/downvotes

user315433

Yes, that's my kind of a candidate. New #1 pick.

user310756

3

user310756

@TelKitty :D

Shadow Wizard

@YvetteColomb nice shadow it has

user310756

21:10

@ShadowWizard so you are true to your name? a fascination with shadows

user315433

21:25

Stack Overflow culture by Jon Skeet

3

SmokeDetector

22:16

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Why is my Antminer S9 only using one Chain by Elokda Ihab on bitcoin.SE

Princess Luna

@SFTP And let the twitter ranting begin!

@SmokeDetector k

SmokeDetector

@PrincessLuna You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.

Princess Luna

right, that's per-site

b_jonas

If a new user asks a question on a site, but the question gets migrated to another SE site, then that user visits his question, can he just automatically create a user on the second site and edit his question? Or does he have to ask to unify his account or something?

Princess Luna

Doesn't the account get created and linked automatically?

b_jonas

22:28

@PrincessLuna I've no idea. I was never in that situation. I have one migrated question, but I already had an account on the target site.

user315433

@b_jonas Migration does not automatically create an account on the target site. The user has to create it by themself. Then the post will be associated with their account.

b_jonas

This time I'm not the new user, but I was the one who asked for migration, and it would be nice if the user could edit his question or leave comments.

@SFTP Good, thank you.

Anonymous

22:44

@SFTP Thanks for sharing

Ano

23:29

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308105/…

@Catija Haven't been following CHQ that much, but have you finished mailing the stickers?

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