« first day (69 days earlier)      last day (4945 days later) » 

12:00 AM
also, i disagree with ^^^ ...what @PopularDemand just said
 
If you're only voting to close because it was asked by a known troll, you're doing it wrong.
 
gah, this really annoys me
>_>
 
I didn't want to edit away too much of the author's intent, and make it just a bland acceptable question. Everyone's entitled to their rant.
 
@rchern wait, what? why?
 
@rchern @PopularDemand I think who asked a question matters as much as the question itself. If the author intends to be argumentative, it will ruin the ability for an objective conversation.
 
12:00 AM
@LanceRoberts You're entitled to a rant, but you're not entitled to have it on MSO.
 
@PopularDemand What I meant was, does the question have merit
If it was asked by someone who was reputable, it's more likely it does
 
@PopularDemand Well, I've seen a few.
 
@Mark, that was me typing (also, i disagree with ^^^*, seeing @PopularDemand say what i was saying, and then me typing ...what @PopularDemand just said
 
If it's asked by someone who's reputation is poor, it's more likely the quetsion is noise
 
Stupid real-time-ness of chat!
 
12:01 AM
 
Whose idea was that, anyhow?
 
Settle down
 
@rchern ah, it's a monday (;
 
As demonstrated by the discussion we're all having here, the issue of whether or not a question is noise is not black and white
 
i strongly disagree with it being closed, but i have no power on meta >_<
 
12:02 AM
@TheUnhandledException This is actually surprising, it's been established pretty firmly in the past.
 
@AidenBell That means "settle down"? LOL
 
it's obviously a duplicate of
1
Q: C# Interest on StackOverflow

This blog post analyzed stack overflow tags and indicates that C# is highly represented (perhaps disproportionately so). Other than the obvious explanation that there just happen to be a bunch of C# programmers interested in the site - what accounts for this statistic?

 
Take Evan Carroll. Anything he asks, no matter how useful the question might be, will get shot down. This is mainly because he uses a tone that doesn't promote conversation, and is very argumentative..
 
@PopularDemand OK. I'll bow to your superior experience on this
@PopularDemand The above was my view on things, I may be in the minority; I may be flat-out wrong
 
anyway. Laters.
 
12:03 AM
@Chacha102, i strongly disagree with that too. if question 193 is a valid question, it shouldn't matter who asked it.
 
Later @Aiden!
 
It's not really about superior experience. If a new user shows up to MSO and sees a question by Evan Carroll, or anyone else, he won't know if that person is a troll. It's all about the content of the question.
 
@rchern My point was, who asked it can determine if the question is valid
 
Anyways, how do people feel about my edit?
Potentially worth reopening, or still no?
 
@TheUnhandledException, no.
 
12:04 AM
@rchern I'll agree that it shouldn't. But the author of the question ends up playing a gigantic role in how the conversation goes. Mainly because everyone is talking to the question asker.
 
@rchern I.E. Is the question a real question or does it exist simply to stir up controversy
Clearly nobody agrees with me. So I will admit I'm probably wrong :-)
 
darnit.
@popular: might be me, but I really really don't like the word "lobbyist" in this context.
 
@Chacha102 This is actually quite unfortunate, except in rare instances like the "movie roles" post.
 
@TheUnhandledException, sorry, but i find it ridiculous to think that me saying the exact same words as someone else would have a difference in whether or not it got closed.
 
12:05 AM
@MichaelPetrotta I wasn't a huge fan either, but it wasn't quite weird enough for me to edit it out.
 
@PopularDemand I would have voted to re-open anyway. But now, I'm conflicted - you missed a great opportunity to make something interesting of that question.
 
its only intent is to accuse of corrupt behavior, imo
 
@TheUnhandledException, that should not happen imo.
 
@Shog9 You are more than welcome to re-edit, or edit the original post and clobber me.
 
@PopularDemand This is where Forums differ from SO. In forums, 2 people can go back and forth. In SO, mostly its the author going back and forth with a lot of people
2
 
12:06 AM
oooh, yeah...
 
@rchern Well, I also think you would not have used the exact same words
 
(The exception I mention: you really have to know the people who hang out on MSO, and Shog9 in particular, to have even a hope of making sense of
8
A: Are rumors of a film true? I hope so by golly!

Popular DemandI was going to leave well enough alone. I really was. But then I heard that the film will feature a special guest appearance by Shog9... as himself!

 
@PopularDemand This is partially a good thing, because we are kind of like Programming Support Desk. If you got on a call with Customer Service, it would be rude for the person on the other end to be talking to a 3rd person
 
@TheUnhandledException, should a question not be edited first then?
 
@rchern What I meant by that was, if everyone disagrees with my view, and espescially those with more experience, I will assume I am viewing it wrong
 
12:07 AM
Hey, I'm the newbie here, but I'm happy to have my own opinion and disagree (:
 
@PopularDemand Now, it isn't rude to have a side conversation on SO, but I feel in a way it helps us get to the main issue, which is that the programmer can't figure out what to do
 
@rchern I think the decision to edit vs close depends on if the question is a valid question... that's when I think the weight of the asker's rep comes into play
 
@rchern I'll argue with you all day long :)
 
MSO is not SO. Nor is it Comcast support. We need not suffer abuse.
I agree that the question should be edited, but it should not have existed as written in the first place.
 
someone give me 1530 rep so i can vote to reopen.
GO!
 
12:09 AM
@MichaelPetrotta This is true, but a lot of the culture of how we use the software has carried over from SO..
 
@rchern I have an opinion, just not a strong one... And I assume that those with more experience than I might have better views. Not certainly, but likely :-)
 
@rchern No... :P
 
@Chacha102 I can't get on board with the "Programming Support Desk" analogy. Sure, we're helping the OP out, but we're also helping all the people who show up with the same or similar problems in the future.
 
10 mins ago, by Popular Demand
It shouldn't matter who asks a question, the question has to be judged on its own.
 
@rchern I don't think this is humanly possible. At least, not without triggering the anomalous vote script before reaching the goal.
 
12:10 AM
It is 153 upvotes
 
Here's what I'm trying to say: Who asks the question comes into play in my view when the question is too borderline to be judged on it's own
 
@Chacha102 Three 500-pt bounties, comin' right up....
 
(:
i'd much rather see a question edited than trigger happy closing
 
@PopularDemand That requires her to have answered 3 questions..
@rchern It isn't trigger-happy closing...
@rchern It is a reaction to the clearly argumentative tone in the authors writing...
 
hey, i have 16 answers on meta!
i don't see an overly strong argumentative tone in the question
 
12:12 AM
@rchern Likewise. If the question has value
 
Um... lah dee dah.
 
Tim
@rchern The only problem is that you can't edit in the missing examples that cause a "distinct impression" of something, though the fact that they're missing is also not a close reason (the downvotes work towards that end).
 
i think there is value in the question
 
2 messages moved to The Trash Heap
 
12:13 AM
the question is fine without examples
 
Tim
How can the supposed bias be addressed if there's no indication what gave the OP that feeling?
It doesn't make the question invalid, but it makes it difficult to answer, I feel.
 
@rchern I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on that. The way he wrote it seems very accusatory.
 
Wow, has it already been deleted? Or did it fall off the main page 'cause of downvotes?
 
Tim
@PopularDemand The latter
 
ac-cu-sa-to-ry - That was my big word for today
 
12:15 AM
@PopularDemand Not deleted
 
I wonder if posts with active reopen votes are deletable.
 
Ok, so this guy is just being ignorant
 
@popular: yes
 
> Of course it matters. Its like saying that it doesn't matter that Rupert Mudoch has no infuence over what is printed on his paper! – weneedanswers 10 mins ago
 
Wait which question are we talking about now?
I am so confused
 
12:16 AM
I really think he thinks that the people at SO have a say over what gets asked and answered on SO
 
@MichaelPetrotta Gasp! Another example of moderator tyranny!
 
or, more likely, is a troll
 
I do like his edit of @popular's edit: "Is Stack Overflow a lobbyist for and/or Microsoft?". Not "division of", "is".
@popular: whahahaha...
 
And the noise close reason was created for trolls...
 
@MichaelPetrotta I agree, @PopularDemand 's edit were good
 
12:17 AM
At least he took out my stray "is."
 
@rchern to be clear here: I see your point. I am divided on this issue
 
So I'm just not going to link his other comments
 
I was trying to beat the close voters, wasn't as careful as I should have been.
 
but he is being a troll...
 
Which is why I am willing to easily admit I may be wrong :-)
I enjoy helping the community and like having certain moderator-ish powers (voting to close etc). I'm not always 100% clear on the best way to do things and try to be flexible until I am sure
 
12:19 AM
Anyway, onto happier subjects
 
@popular: to be clear, I was being sarcastic. it's a but confusing, after his last edit.
 
@MichaelPetrotta I know.
 
wanting to know if the information is objective is fair. and bottom line, that's what the question was about
 
but i'm done.
 
12:20 AM
@Chacha102 Yeah, I'm looking at it.
But making a conversation in the middle of this... lively discussion... wouldn't have worked out.
I'll wait for a quieter time.
 
@rchern I see your point. I agree with that 100%
Just so you know ;-)
 
Lets all gather round for a pint!
 
@Chacha102 All I've got are 330 mL and 12 fl oz bottles.
 
@PopularDemand You disappoint me...
 
@Chacha102 I'll have two of them! You won't even know the difference!
 
12:23 AM
@Chacha102 Yes! Guinness for me please
 
What you looking at me for? @MichaelPetrotta has the drinks...
 
Hm... what's more of a pain, figuring out how to pay my tuition or installing MS Office so I can fill out a spreadsheet?
 
@PopularDemand Wouldn't one be helpful for the other?
 
@chacha: hrm, what? Come out to the west coast, we'll raise a few
 
Tim
Isn't he on the west coast? :P
 
12:25 AM
@MichaelPetrotta I'm in the heart of the west coast!
 
@MichaelPetrotta If you mean the west coast of the inlet, I could be there soon.
 
@chacha: San Diego? heard it's nice
 
Yes, San Diego is the heart of the west coast. No one contradict me on that...
 
wouldn't dream of it.
 
Well we've had 2 weeks of weird weather
 
12:26 AM
On that, anyone in Amsterdam, or Israel? Going to be there later this month.
 
Or Amsterdam, Israel?
One of the smaller settlements, that one.
 
@popular: heh. Going to both, actually. I should say Jerusalem, I guess
 
i was in israel in august
where ya going?
that's where i was (:
 
@rchern You were?? I am so jealous
 
Right, gotta get some work done so I don't get expelled for academic or financial reasons.
 
12:28 AM
like it? recommend anything (without writing too much...)
 
Cheerio.
 
@PopularDemand Later!
I'm taking off myself. Have a good night everyone!
 
night, both
 
Tim
G'night
 
@MichaelPetrotta, i recommend everything we did, ha!
except, um, don't go visit my cousins (;
 
12:31 AM
scratches that off his list
 
let's see here
we did lots of walking around the old city
 
EDITED
-9
Q: Is full disclosure of funding necessary in order for us to trust the content on Stack Overflow?

weneedanswersI get the distinct impression that there is a pro-Microsoft bias on Stack Overflow. I know, I know, hand me the tin-foil hat and push me under a bridge, but hear me out first. Can you honestly say that you've never seen the following: SO supporting new tools that MS is pushing? Questions gettin...

 
@Shog9, love it
 
sigh
 
@rchern: that's my main plan. thanks
 
12:35 AM
@MichaelPetrotta, we did the kotel tunnels tour, that was fun
we also did yad vashem, the israel museum, went to see the chagall windows at hadassah medical center
we did a tour to bethlehem...that was definitely interesting
 
Tim
3
Hmm, misleading chat..
(in reply to @Shog9's awesome edit)
 
@Tim lol
 
Nice
 
anyone know what the verdict on the homework tag is?
 
thanks, @rchern. hadn't heard about the chagall windows before
 
12:44 AM
 
it's not a museum or anything, just at the hospital, but my dad and i both like chagall and had seen stuff in nice france and chicago, so we just had to see it in jerusalem
 
@Shog9 fair enough, it seems lately that there's a lot of comments poking "is this homework?"
 
I don't have a problem with it, so long as it's used properly (by author or proxy to communicate the nature of the question to readers). If an author insists his question isn't homework, then leave it off.
 
@Shog9, you should go edit that picture in, I'd do it, but I don't want to take your name off of the front-showing edit.
 
@Lance: actually, it would be better as an answer.
 
12:46 AM
@Shog9 i've never actually added the tag myself, but am sometimes tempted to remove it when someone else has just decided that the question is homework (though I haven't done that either)
 
OH, WOOPS!
 
I think it's a fine tag.
@Tim, Shog's right, you should go post that as a conspiratorial answer.
 
@Mark Again, unless the author actively disputes the nature of the question, I think it's fine - some questions are obviously homework (just as some questions obviously relate to C# or whatever), and so adding the tag is a good thing
I view it primarily as an explicit admission that the author needs some help working through a problem (vs. "point me at a solution so I can get back to work")
 
Tim
@LanceRoberts Unfortunately I can't. :P
 
that's reasonable
 
12:49 AM
But if a student wants his work done for him, then he's just hurting himself, throwing away a chance to learn. Whether or not anyone on SO will help him pull the trigger is their own concern.
 
0
Q: Are venture capitalists to be feared or welcomed?

weneedanswersSorry folks, I been watching Wall Street and got my 1980's head on. I now look at everyone and think to myself in the most paranoid fashion, "are you Gordon Gecko!!!!!". Anyroad, as the title. Does having venture capitalist funding your venture, chop your balls off.

Another question from our friend...
Not exactly ontopic..
 
needs screen cap from Fight Club. BADLY.
 
Maybe it can be edited into shape?
 
@LanceRoberts The base question isn't even relevant to SO
 
@Lance: go for it
 
12:53 AM
I'd expect this on finance.stackoverflow.com...
 
@Chacha102 That was a joke. Forgot the smiley.
 
or .stackexchange.com or whatever we are putting it on now-a-days...
I say we put all of the sites on .unicorn.com
 
@Chacha102: deleted now, or seems to be
ohwaitnevermind
 
Added image.
 
@Mark Hey, would you consider adding a letter or so to your display name to make it unique?
Like I was saying earlier, every time someone does an @Mark I get a notification
Sort of
 
12:57 AM
@MarkC Sounds more like a bug with the system
 
Tim
@Mark It's not, actually.
 
@Mark that seems fair
 
I suppose I might add a letter, or a few
 
Tim
1
Q: Stack Exchange Inbox Bug

Mark RobinsonI checked my Stack Exchange Inbox (drop down list) just now and it mentioned three messages for me. Two were legit - the last was this one on The Tavern which was another Mark.

 
It takes away a little bit of my anonymity
and all...
edited the display name on Meta, is that different than the display name on chat?
 
12:59 AM
no
it just takes a little to update
 
okiedoke
awesome, it seems like being just "Mark" was causing issues for lots of other Marks
@MarkC Better?
 
@MichaelPetrotta, how long ya gonna be in jerusalem?
 
@rchern: 12 days
 
nice!
was only there a week
the ramparts walk sounded cool, but it was too warm to do and we ran out of time
 
yeah. I've never been there, and the history kinda fascinates me. I have some time, thought I'd see it unrushed.
that's why I wanted to go in the fall. My brother went in the summer, and still talks about the heat years later
the ramparts - that was on my list, though really, I just want to go and see what I see
 
1:17 AM
all my pics are online if you're interested
 
absolutely.
 
@Mark Oh, I dunno, it still says Mark here
It's not really a big deal
I just get my hopes up that someone responded or commented
It's really not a big deal, it's just the little red circle in the SE box
 
@MarkC I updated to "Mark E", maybe it's worth a refresh
 
okay I'll try
Hey, when's your birthday?
:P
 
haha, february
 
1:21 AM
May here
 
Tim
@MichaelPetrotta You mentioned that you were off to Amsterdam as well?
 
@Tim: yep
on the way to Israel
for a week
 
Tim
Ah, cool. I was there (Well, in the Netherlands in general, in Amsterdam for a portion of time) a few years ago, it was pretty nice.
 
@MarkE Besides, anonymity only breeds mischief.
I know that firsthand!
 
Tim
Yes, @MarkE is definitely a bad seed.. ;)
 
1:25 AM
@Tim: I wandered though London a few years ago, on business, and loved it. Something about old, walkable cities.
 
>_>
 
Okay see you guys later
 
i didn't necessarily want that in the indexable page >_>
 
Oh, by the way, you might want to check out this awesome post by yours truly:
 
@rchern: oh well :-) thanks for the pointer, I'll look around.
you can edit chat posts; can you remove the link?
 
1:28 AM
you can see the link in the history, can't you?
i did edit it
 
Unusually high troll volume today.
 
it's gone.
 
Tim
@MichaelPetrotta Ah, Amsterdam is very walkable itself. I'm trying to remember exactly what I did while I was there specifically; I'll have to check all of the trip memorabilia I have saved up from that trip. As for London, I've been through it several times, but I've never actually "been" there...I've been meaning to go visit a friend though, so it's on my todo list, heh.
 
bit.ly bMnqZZ
 
1:29 AM
@PopularDemand You just wish you had a standing desk like Donny Rumsfeld
 
@rchern: I had captured the url already, but thanks!
 
@MarkC I have no idea what you mean.
 
Does chat embed questions from Programmers, or is that not enabled?
@PoppyPops See the link up there
I was hoping it would embed, but I guess it won't.
 
@MarkC, you linked it weird.
 
Oh, you can't do user-referrals with post links?
Rats
 
1:31 AM
@MarkC, you can, if you do it correctly.
 
@MarkC I see it, but I don't understand what it's got to do with me.
 
Let's see if that parses
 
drop the /
at the very least
 
>.<
0
A: Alternatives to usual keyboard + mouse + monitor

Mark CIt hit me when you said "seriously different" that I think this may be just what you are looking for: That's right--Ol' Rummy uses a standing desk. The Wiki article has a few references and opinion articles you may want to examine. The standing desk, in the words of users, makes you feel more...

Yay. @PopsicleDemand You were calling out the trolls, so we took the troll-bait
 
1:33 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't see @Mark's point?
 
"Unusually high troll volume today."
 
@PopularDemand, @MarkC: question looks fine to me. but then I don't hang out in p.se
 
I think he meant what I was saying earlier. Well, never mind, I'm not explaining it well, but that doesn't matter, 'cause I feel grrreat. Ohh, yeah!
 
@rchern: I can see the hotel I'll be staying at! I think.
 
@MarkC You don't think there were a lot of troll (or at least really poor quality) questions on Meta today?
 
1:36 AM
Oh, that's what you're talking about. At first I wasn't sure if you were talking about the chat history earlier, or what we were talking about when you came in
 
oh yeah?
 
Well, I dunno, I've only got time to refresh-spam one page, and that's Programmers
 
wishful thinking. the mt of olives pic
 
@MichaelPetrotta, compare this picture with [this one that i took from the hotel we stayed at](/album/slides/DSC03264.html)
 
@MarkC Oh, I didn't even bother reading the transcript before I jumped in. I've been doing it all day.
 
1:41 AM
bah, i just noticed that link didn't work and it is too late to edit >_<
 
@rchern kinda hard to tell from the perspective; same hotel?
worked for me
 
yes
other end of the hotel
 
@Popular I wasn't hawk-eyeing Meta, for sure, but I did see the "Full disclosure" one a little while ago
 
cool! I'm reminded, for some reason, of an old favorite TV show of mine, where one of the actors admitted he had a crush on Hilary Clinton. Random, but.
 
oh, restaurant recommendation!
 
1:43 AM
And now of course I see tons of mods hammering down questions with their IRON FISTS
 
yes, please
 
Psst @Popular, how do I sent a your-eyes only message?
It's nothing secret, I just didn't want to spoil it in case I post it later
 
hmmm, I can't remember if it was Sami's or Simi's...they're across the street from each other and the other one is a ripoff of the other
 
@Popular, do you have any sort of IP-tracking here?
 
1:47 AM
that makes it sounds like Sami's is the 2nd one...but i thought that's the one we went to and i'm pretty sure we went to the 1st one
 
Just wondering, because that "conspiracy" question has a new account with a funny name, "Weneedanswers".
 
@MarkC There's no private messaging.
@MarkC Do you mean "does balpha have any sort of IP-tracking here"?
 
need to check the map
 
@Popular Why Balpha?
 
If you want to e-mail me, you can use, say, tavern42@mailinator.com
 
1:48 AM
I meant you in plural or moderator sense
Ok, thanks
 
I'm not a mod.
I'm not even a 10k-er.
Though it's possible I will be by 2011.
A 10k-er, not a mod.
 
Oh, you can see I hardly spend any time on SO. The threshhold is a lot higher I guess
 
Eh, I'm still working on 2k on SO proper.
 
@PopularDemand: it can be anticlimactic
 
I'm getting really close now, at least.
 
1:50 AM
@Popular That's hilarious! Well, we'll just work out a little deal between you and me
"Protection", if you know what I mean
 
@MarkC Uh... I'm not sure I want to know what you mean.
 
Look, I'll supply you with the goods, you keep those pesky cats off my back, capisce?
 
Do let me know if/when you send that e-mail, I think mailinator autodeletes after something like five minutes.
 
Oh riiite
@Popular I'll be sending from my own Mailinator for the laughs
 
@MarkC I didn't know you could send from Mailinator.
 
1:53 AM
Oh wait, you can't, that's right
For some reason I thought you could xD
 
Tim
Hmm...
 
@MichaelPetrotta, checked a map. we did Sami's
 
@rchern: ok, on the list it goes.
 
um, go hungry.
 
oh crap, that's an imposing-looking wall
phone call
@rchern: will look at later. thanks a lot!
 
1:59 AM
hehe (:
i could babble on and on about it (;
 
Tim
shakes angry fist at SVN and Maven
 

« first day (69 days earlier)      last day (4945 days later) »