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10:29 PM
Whew, done with that nonsense ;-)
now to fix JavaScript bugs.
haha... all right, anyone know how to turn a recording of a bird singing into a textfile?
@PiersMyers HAHA! I love it
not just any textfile, mind, but one that records the pitches?
@ixtmixilix You have an audio file?
10:36 PM
given an audio file
if your name was Peter File, would you change it?
Hmmm... a task I am not well suited to (never done any audio programming)
@PiersMyers Probably. If you were in charge of an Air Force base called "Seymour Johnson Air Force Base", would you change the name?
i'd change it to a KGS chatroom with the added benefit of not being a slightly clunky way of chatting
bird song to text eh, that's not going to be cheap
10:39 PM
@ixtmixilix Looking for XMPP support?
what's that?


XMPP Integration Discussion
(Aka Google Talk)
Q: Offer an XMPP method for chat

Greg HewgillThis is a request for the SO chat system to have an XMPP interface. The whole idea of a chat system is to bring people together, and a key way of doing that is to allow people to access the system using more than one method. Right now there's a web interface, but it's limited to being a web inte...

gotcha. no, i was referring to the tumbleweed-like nature of asking serious questions in here
which is like KGS go server, but slightly more flashy
and not clunky when it comes to links/text/etc
Well for "real" questions, you should ask on StackOverflow
then you can post the link here for discussion :-)
for open-ended "what do you all think of blah?" questions, just chatting here is more appropriate, as they'd be closed on SO
i had a bad day on SE actually... feeling a bit iffy about asking any questions
10:43 PM
I know the feeling. Stick with it! :-)
yeah, but in my own time. gotta get over the extreme hate factor first.
Have an example? I can give you some advice if you like
Also, which SE site?
programmers.se, the black spot on se's name as far as i'm concerned
actually, the color black is too good for it... the rotten spot, more like
i quite like black after all
...just the fact that programmers is essentially a reincarnation of ward cunningham's wikiwikiweb
which was/is the first wiki of all time
the inspiration for wikipedia
and, naturally, most questions there are cw
10:48 PM
Yeah I don't know much about how to succeed on programmers.SE
that's just it. they're fumbling, i feel
they don't know either
cw or not cw?
@TheUnhandledException You post an answer, and it gets upvoted. A lot
80 percent is cw already
10:48 PM
I can tell you had a bad day:
> Please delete my programmers.stackexchange account...
If you can't think of one, just copy/paste one that's already there
@MichaelMrozek Talk about oversimplification :-)
I think you're missing a step ;-)
That was it ;-)
10:49 PM
I guess you need to take a moment to eliminate any preconceived notions you have about how SE sites work first
StackOverflow: you post a detailed answer, which in an objective, clear way explains what the question was asking,,providing links (if applicable) to more information
and get upvoted a lot
There's two (at least) conflicting views of Programmers. The first is that of the proposer and a lot of the early committers - that it's somewhere to ask all the questions that aren't allowed on SO.
yeah, enter the zen of just ignoring that even though everything's cw it still matters that you pick an answer because, by the way, we're going to remove the whole category of cw
So you've got those that want to ask the subjective/poll/list questions and those that just want them off SO in that camp
10:50 PM
that's why i thought, 'ding' -- ward's wiki
the original wiki -- the meaning of 'community wiki' derives from his own imagination
Then you've got Jeff & Joel who now seem to want Programmers to be where you ask "serious" questions that are about programming but not about code.
If that comes to pass I can see another proposal surfacing on Area 51
@ChrisF They're not alone; this did surprisingly well:
Q: How can we avoid Programmers.SE from becoming the SE black sheep?

Mark TrappOne of the topics that's come up several times on Meta.StackOverflow is the perception that Programmers.SE is a joke proposal, existing solely to help keep Stack Overflow free of all the "crappy" questions that it gets plagued with every day. A few of examples of this perception (note: see Edits...

10:52 PM
I'm not sure where I stand (or sit - being on the fence)
It seems like they're trying to "fix" programmers.se by merging in other less crazy proposals to try and flood it with normal questions, and I'm not sure which group will hate that more, programmers.se or the normal proposals that were sacrificed
i hate programmers.se. i know hate's a strong word, but that's how i feel today. sorry guys
it really made me question the value of using se at all
That seems a bit unnecessary. I don't care for it, but it doesn't affect my opinion of the other SE sites in any way
Part of me wants there to be a place to discuss the "fluff" both to ensure it doesn't keep coming up on SO but also because I think people want to discuss these things.
'course, being a married family man, i have far better things to get upset about =)
10:53 PM
@MichaelMrozek I agree completly
@ixtmixilix As @MichaelMrozek said, don't ley programmers.SE taint your view of the other sites, especially StackOverflow
@ChrisF That was the main reason I was for it -- time has proven people can't stop themselves from posting those questions, so I'd rather it be on an SE than SO
yes. again, ward's wiki -- it was/is huge. just look at the influence it had on the world through wikipedia picking it up. these kinds of formats need to exist
without some programmer saying to himself, 'i want a loosely-programming based site for idea exchange', wikipedia would not exist
it's that simple... sure it would exist eventually
as 'gopedia' or 'micropedia'
but the point is that it was grass-roots
I think if Jeff & Joel want a serious Non Programming site for then they need to propose another one and see if that floats.
yes, i agree
and change the rules entirely
if it's mostly subjective, mostly cw, be innovative
don't keep the so rules
they're not suited for it
@ixtmixilix Exactly. That was what I was trying to say
10:57 PM
it's disastrous, in my honest opinion
there's a huge power vacuum
@ixtmixilix that i think is a bit strong :-) But, we fundamentally agree
without objectivity, the power's in the ratings
hmm... do you see my point though?
SO's rules works great for objective questions, no so much for subjective
Bill The Lizard, for example
he's great
he's got a huge ranking, and i love his blog
i read his answers/questions
he deserves his rank, he's a really smart guy
on the other hand, a subjective site where you acquire se points is not exactly a measure of intelligence
it's actually just a measure of how long you've been there
I'm not sure how "has lots of rep" translates into a "disastrous power vacuum"
10:59 PM
ok. how long has it been around?
great, ok
so had its growing pains, do you agree?
if you look back at meta.so from 2009, you can see them
@MichaelMrozek 28 ;)
people figuring out where they stand on types of questions, is code golf ok/not ok, etc
11:01 PM
must be cached - my profile says 28 days
@ixtmixilix Are you talking about programmers or StackOverflow?
both, from a historical perspective
growing pains
s.o. in 2009 had them, you can see it if you look closely at meta
people are getting pretty passionate on meta
@ixtmixilix Still has some, yea
right... no pun intended
so, theoretically that's ok
because Bill The Lizard for example is really smart...
11:03 PM
I have a mixed view on those questions. But yes, I agree about Bill The Lizard. @BillTheLizard in case he ever comes into chat :-)
He only has 101 rep on programmers, is that your point?
but, if you can acquire points by not being smart, that's a power vacuum... it's survival of the fittest, ie the growing pains get you somewhere sensible, 'cause you can trust those guys who are at 89k on s.o.
but not if you can get lots of points by answering subjective questions
then you're just kinda popular
they're not "points", they're "Reputation".
Which is an indication of how well respected (popular if you prefer) you are in that community
You're trying to apply rules from SO to programmers indiscriminately, which doesn't work for the exact reasons you're describing
11:06 PM
StackOverflow reputation is not the same as programmers.SE rep
because the community is different
good. i hope an exchange rate never develops... or a bank...
Just the same as how I have far more rep on SO than on, say cooking
I can program a lot better than I can cook ;-)
Exactly. On most sites rep indicates you provided a lot of helpful answers, but on programmers it pretty much just means you've answered a lot, since it's hard to be "wrong" on most of those questions. Similar to how in most chat rooms pinned messages mean it's something important, but here it just means it's some random youtube video Chacha102 likes
@MichaelMrozek ROFLMAO. That explains my point well, when I said "I don't know how to be successful on programmers"
11:07 PM
don't learn cooking
when you get married, you'll find your wife still knows more than you
and then you have to bow humbly and let her do it
@MichaelMrozek, +100 to that last sentence hahaha
@ixtmixilix LOL. But in the meantime, I haveta eat! :-)
@rchern ROFLMAO
yeah... learn Chinese then
it's easy and cheap
you can make really good fried rice if you just invest in a rice maker and a wok
Well I intend to master the art of cooking fish in a dishwasher, that way I can eat well and also not offend my future wife
yes, you got it
that's exactly what you have to do
if she thinks it's gross, she won't try to change the way you do it
11:10 PM
Q: Is it possible to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher?

AttilaNYCI heard that there is a way to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher - any techniques, tips??

Wow, you didn't make that up
it's a good idea actually
@MichaelMrozek nope :-)
i haven't seen a dishwasher since i left the states in 2006
anyone been travelling much?
11:11 PM
@ixtmixilix I thought it was insane until I read something someone posted in one of the answers
yeah, it's funny
@ixtmixilix I wish. They keep me chained to my computer until I can get version 2.0 out of beta
gotcha. are you in cali?
North Carolina
Near the Research Triangle Park
@ixtmixilix you?
(why didn't my link onebox?)
i'm in the uk
coloradan though
11:16 PM
@TheUnhandledException, are you a college basketball fan?
I've lost far too many friends over that :-D
who said anything about duke?
are you a tarheels fan?
I... I like all the local teams! Um, right?
looks cool man, my cousin studied in nc
11:18 PM
/me tries to remember which of his friends know his StackOverflow username and might check chat logs...
@rchern But yes, I am a fan of the tarheels
@TheUnhandledException what does that mean lol
/me figures out how to ignore @TheUnhandledException :D
@rchern It means, I'm also a Fan of Duke :-)
As well as UNC
I don't play favorites, exactly for this reason:
Damn, can't permalink /me messages :-)
rock chalk jayhawk :D
this is fun
past midnight though
A web development company I work closely with, the owner is a Duke fan, the sales manager prefers UNC
nice talking to you folks
@ixtmixilix You should try living in a better timezone
11:21 PM
which one?
i've tried quite a few
One west of your current location, apparently
Beijing, Cairo, Cyprus
never done that one though
11:22 PM
Hmm, now I just want it to be college basketball season already.
Germany... i love German culture... cool language too
auf weidersein
@rchern So you're a UNC fan then?
@ixtmixilix I just had some great German food last Friday :-D
Anyway, if you're headed out @ixtmixilix it was nice chatting with you, have a good one!
lucky you. not so hot on the food actually, i prefer Chinese, but the beer's good... they're the ones who taught the Chinese how to make beer after all
Poor @ixtmixilix, he keeps trying to leave :). You can tell from the highly misspelled farewell
see you later
i was hoping it wasn't spelled right
11:24 PM
@TheUnhandledException um, to be polite, i'll just say no (;
@ixtmixilix Then I have excellent news for you! Anyway, good night :)
@rchern Haha, I was going to say, I thought you were far west of me
@rchern I think you might be confused as to what room you're in. Politeness is pretty much non-existent here
He's right. Feel free to edit your message @rchern ;-)
11:25 PM
> Do I have to be nice?
> Yes. We expect community members to treat each other with respect … even when they don't deserve it.
@TheUnhandledException, I'm in St. Louis, but I'm from Kansas City....KU fan through and though.
> You have to be nice in all rooms except The Tavern. We expect community members to treat each other with respect … even when they don't deserve it.
@rchern Ah, ok, cool!
I haven't had a problem with fans of out of state teams, I'm not that much of a college basketball fan, LOL
here in the Triangle, you have to choose a local basketball team to prefer, even if you don't follow sports, LOL
my boss is a huge tarheel fan
the month of march is pretty tense at work
@rchern March is pretty tense anywhere around Raleigh/Durham, NC :-)
11:30 PM
Silly college students rioting when their team wins/looses/does anything
(We actually had riots in Chapel Hill, what, 2 years ago I think. Crazyness :-)
i get it. college bball is serious business!
@rchern Apparently. Serious enough to set each other on fire for! Personally I reserve that action for PHP v ASP debates ;-)
11:51 PM
apparently i've voted on more than 84 answers. d'oh!
@rchern Why "d'oh!"?
electorate badge :P
@rchern You have a ways to go :-)
It's what, 600 questions?
and at least 25% of votes are on questions?
I have 684 votes right now. And I don't have the badge yet. So at least 85 of those are answer votes.
11:54 PM
I've gotta be close. >_>
Really? You vote mostly on questions?
I've been voting on nothing but questions lately lol
HAHA, I did similar
I have 1885 votes on SO, so
and by lately, I mean for quite a while.
It's my only gold badge and I treasure it... my preciouuuussss
11:56 PM
That's amazing
I must confess I've thought about doing that. I've resisted
so far...
I should have Copy Editor a some point though. Not trying for it, just enjoy editing :-)
in 3 weeks i'll have 8 <insert name of 100 day badge>s
knocks on wood
In 3 weeks I'll point out this :P
that's the 30 day one i think. Fanatic maybe?
11:59 PM
Yeah. Fanatic

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