Tavern on the Meta

Seth

01:47

@Pops Well I don't think we really do... that was more of a... joke.

My jokes are so bad these days >.<

Pops

Mine was too.

Seth

oh lol

Say, could you help me?

Pops

Uh oh.

I mean, yes!

Because that is what your friendly neighborhood Community Manager says.

Seth

Over on AU we need this tag and this tag burniated.

@Pops lol ;P

We've been slowly retagging them.. but sharing has 236 questions :S

animuson

Serial sharing! Oh no!

Seth

01:50

IKR >.<

Pops

That, or sharing of serials, which is probably worse.

Anna Lear

02:49

@Seth I don't see a strong consensus for a preferred action on serial. Tempted to let it sit for a couple more days now that it has another answer to see which way the discussion swings (synonym vs destruction).

@Seth And [sharing] has 200+ questions in it and a reasonable-looking tag wiki. Gonna need a meta post discussing its removal. :)

@Pops Give it time... You'll upgrade to a "definitely maybe" ;)

Seth

03:22

@AnnaLear Okay, thanks :)

jadarnel27

03:55

I am pretty sure that my mother is clinically insane.

RAWR!

Ya know?

animuson

04:13

This was my project for the day: animuson.me/collection - and, well, searching Google Images for high-resolution images that are actually useful.

jadarnel27

04:25

That's funny, I was just checking that page out.

animuson

I should probably scan my site to see what I broke in the process of updating the styles... I just know there's going to be something.

Benjol

05:32

@Pops Should I raise it with someone from Careers? In my view job announcements like that damage the Careers brand. It looks like 'vapourware' to me

animuson

@jadarnel27 I expedited finding this one especially for you.

jadarnel27

13:32

@animuson That's very kind of you to think of me. You're a good friend.

BIEBER!!!

Tim Stone

15:10

Not to be this guy, but...

in The Bridge on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 12 hours ago, by Tim Stone

Let there be....BABIES!

jadarnel27

Dude! Is that a tiny @TimStone?!

Tim Stone

It is!

In case anyone was wondering, I promise this is totally not a precursor to a brilliant world domination scheme.

jadarnel27

Starred for posterity of Tim Stone's progeny.

Pops

@Benjol I already passed it along, thanks!

jadarnel27

Congrats, man =)

Tim Stone

15:18

Thank you! It's crazy-exciting stuff.

Pops

Whoa! Yes, congratulations! Assuming that is a tiny you, and not a self-portrait and you're just really short or something.

Tim Stone

I've been informed that the photo was a bit Instagramed, but otherwise it's legitimate.

jadarnel27

I question the merits, however, of a world domination scheme that starts off with you not having any free time and not get any sleep =P

Tim Stone

Your false assumption is that I get any sleep to begin with. :P

But to the first point, that reminds me that I need to work on my personal site...

jadarnel27

Haha, I was just thinking that!

Tim Stone

15:28

Which I aptly registered as itsonmytodolist.com

jadarnel27

That is fan-slam-tastic.

Pops

Indeed.

jadarnel27

I need to work on mine too. I've been getting my hands on more freelance work lately, and I need to have something to refer people to.

jadarnel27

15:52

Could one of the mods in here give me some feedback on why my recent comment flag was declined?

All the comment said was "this answer is pointless" or something like that, so I flagged as "not constructive."

Pops

I haven't seen your specific flag, but you've been around long enough to know that that whole system isn't super-precise.

jadarnel27

Right, that's true. I've just seen much more consistent comment flag handing over the past several months, so I was surprised.

Wait, does the post being deleted automatically decline comment flags?

Pops

Still have a link to the post?

jadarnel27

Yeah, I think this is it: stackoverflow.com/questions/18647214/…

(I'm using the mobile interface, so I may have messed up the link a little, but it's a deleted answer on that page)

animuson

16:38

Errrr. It's pay day and the company still hasn't even inputted a voucher into the pay system yet...

Trufa

18:43

Hi guys

Quick question, maybe someone knows

the is @ notification in SE comments based on any open source plugins?

Ben Collins

19:09

@Trufa no

animuson

19:20

> I'm sincerely sorry to hear you'd received the item which you haven't ordered. I've checked the item and verified that you can keep or dispose the item you received.

Pops

@jadarnel27 Sorry. Even my tools don't have a lot of info on comment flags. Maybe if I had unrestricted DB access, but....

animuson

19:36

@jadarnel27 It was declined by an employee a half an hour before the post was deleted by its owner. I couldn't tell you why he declined it, though. shrugs

Trufa

@BenCollins ok, thanks!

Ben Collins

@Trufa were you curious about something in particular?

user234239

19:48

hello all

user234239

may I ask a seemingly silly question

mmyers

@UV-D Only genuinely silly questions are permitted

user234239

@mmyers LMAO

user234239

That's good to know!

Pops

Fortunately for you, the two are not mutually exclusive.

user234239

19:53

@Pops ???

Pops

Seeming silly and being genuinely silly. Sorry, go ahead and ask.

user234239

@Pops, ah yes...LOL

user234239

my question is, as I was bullied by an idiot who did the irritating minor-edit-change-upvote-to-downvote on 2 sites (one of them to the order of 160 rep in a space of an hour or two)

user234239

I reported their behaviour, nothing was done (as she is a favourite on one of the sites it seems) - so I deleted my membership on both sites to stop the stupidity (end the drama)

user234239

@mmyers not that many, they unupvoted and sometimes downvoted (-10 and -12 at a time)

mmyers

19:57

Yes, I realized that after posting

user234239

I had 2.3K on one of the sites, and only 300ish on the other

user234239

however, I find the 2nd one useful, would it be no problem to rejoin it? (knowing I won't be connected to my previous contributions - which I am okay with)

Pops

Depends on how you "deleted your membership." But wait, how did you report the behavior? That doesn't seem normal (and does sound like it needs to be corrected, unless there's more to the story).

user234239

I won't post anything on the rejoined site (SO) so as not to be a target for this bully

user234239

I reported to the moderators, but nothing was done, so I did the web-form-deletion

user234239

20:01

on the first one, what happened was that I flagged her for swearing and insulting hi rep users in chat - she got a 30 minute ban and went ballistic

mmyers

@UV-D It's possible someone warned the other user; that wouldn't be visible to anyone else

user234239

@mmyers it continued for 4 days before I decided that it was just simply not worth it anymore

user234239

the 4 days mainly consisted of accept-unaccept-accept-unaccept, as well as what I described above

user234239

anyways, my question is, is there any problems if I rejoin one of the sites (as it is useful)?

Andrew Barber

@UV-D I'm not sure, but your description of your flag sounds vaguely familiar. If I'm the one who declined your flag there, it was because I took the flag's text to mean someone had just edited a couple times to reverse their vote.

user234239

20:09

@AndrewBarber it happened on SO and CogSci - bt was severe on CogSci - the member is still active on both sites

user234239

an addition to my question is that I'll contribute by commenting, editing and flagging where necessary, to give something back, but not posting - as this would be a target for the bully's little petty games

Andrew Barber

@UV-D That's your choice, of course; but I assure you if it would continue, we'd take action and make it stop. Trolls do suck.

user234239

@AndrewBarber that is good to know - I felt I had to leave the other site, despite having 2.3K, as nothing was done (I took a screenshot of the madness)

user234239

effectively, I have 'reset' my account on SO

Andrew Barber

@UV-D If it does happen again, be sure to give us a fairly detailed explanation - and particular that it's a long-running issue. We sometimes go through flags quickly, and tend to take the text literally... so using really clear wording helps us get through our thick heads what you mean ;)

Anna Lear

20:17

@UV-D Yeah, that's totally fine. You're more than welcome to return. I would advise avoiding that other user, though. No good can come from interacting with them again since you guys clearly didn't get along.

user234239

@AndrewBarber lol, ok - and I am not upset about you guys at all. Yup, definitely avoiding her (ironically she is in the same country as me, luckily over 1000km away in Sydney)

Andrew Barber

Cool :) I hate to see people chased off!

user234239

@AnnaLear and she really has it in for me...lol... not quite a nemesis

user234239

more of a clumsy-stalker

user234239

And for a bit of good news - I have recently completed my PhD

Anna Lear

20:21

@UV-D congrats!

Pops

Well done!

Andrew Barber

Sweet!

<-- jealous

user234239

Thank you muchly - it has been an epic 2.5 years - working full time as a school teacher, moving house 3 times, got seriously ill, burgled - but nothing stops a UV-D-academic-missile

user234239

@AndrewBarber why are you jealous?

Laszlo Papp

20:35

Hi, is this also a downvote place or issues can be discussed here sincerely without throwing minus ones at each other without any explanation?

user234239

well, it is tomorrow morning here... soon I will have go and vote - it is compulsory in Australia to vote. But first I need a hearty breakfast to run the gauntlet of electioneers at the polling station. Then I have to grade a truck load of physics papers.

Pops

There's no voting in chat.

user234239

@LaszloPapp the people here are very friendly and helpful

Laszlo Papp

UV-D: OK, that is an advancement to the forum.

what is the reason why moderators remove technical content on the forum, like asking for downvoters' reason about the downvoting, or if I sincerely express my opinion about someone's answer why I think it is bad and deserves -1?

(oh and I saw this happening discriminatively, i.e. similar situations from other people are OK)

Pops

Generally, asking for reasons for downvotes is considered noise. If it's being allowed in some places, that's the problem.

Laszlo Papp

20:41

so it is OK on this site to headlessly downvote?

user234239

@LaszloPapp for better or worse, downvoting is allowed and is anonymous - the downvoter is not obliged in any way to state their reasons for doing so.

Pops

Well, that's a bit of a loaded question. But ultimately, it is up to users who've earned the downvote privilege to use it as they see fit. In the aggregate, we think we have smart users who use it appropriately. It's not a perfect system.

Laszlo Papp

I find that quite rude and unprofessional to mark something as "crap" without explanation at all. This is not so many things in the life works, nor is something that anyone would like to hear in the real life from other people.

how*

right, I can edit, thanks.

Pops

FYI you can edit messages with this chat software.

Bart

Top tip @LaszloPapp. You can also edit your chat messages for a while

Pops

20:44

Use your up key.

Andrew Barber

@UV-D Because you've achieved some measure of awesome-ness :)

Pops

(For up to two minutes, I think.)

The other issue is that it's impossible to force someone to explain. Even if the system required a comment, how would we prevent people from just entering in gibberish?

user234239

@AndrewBarber - also got published 3 times... not so sure about 'awesome'..lol

Laszlo Papp

Pops: moderation.

Pops: just as any other inappropriate comment entered now.

Pops

Aggressive moderation could remove the gibberish, but it couldn't force the person to answer "why did you downvote" honestly.

Laszlo Papp

20:46

Pops: I have ideas how to improve that.

user234239

and would be a tedious part of the moderator's duties

Pops

I'm all ears!

Laszlo Papp

Pops: -20/-50/-100/etc for unreasonable downvote messages.

user234239

@Pops you are entirely ears?

Bart

What is "unreasonable" @LaszloPapp?

And you are aware of the massive history on that very subject on Meta?

Laszlo Papp

20:47

Bart: spam, nonsense, rude, offensive, insult, etc

Pops

What's reasonable?

@UV-D I am made up entirely of figurative ears.

user234239

What's nonsense

Laszlo Papp

Pops: see above

UV-D: black is white

user234239

@Pops that is awesome!

Pops

@LaszloPapp This is already implemented.

user234239

20:48

@LaszloPapp this is a topic that has been discussed on MSO several times.

Pops

Has been since the beginning of the site.

Bart

@Pops I would assume he means that such comments are not valid mandatory downvote comments.

Pops

For spammers, that is.

Laszlo Papp

Pops, UV-D: Frankly, I do not care how many times it has been discussed until it is solved.

Bart

@LaszloPapp You might not want to take that approach if you raise it on Meta though. Better be well aware of the history of that discussion and its arguments. If you don't bring anything new to the table, be prepared to be shot down.

Laszlo Papp

20:50

My experience is getting very bad about SO. It started off very good, but all the unreasonable downvote I see around makes me very sad.

and frustrating many times which cause further conflicts, etc.

user234239

@LaszloPapp that is my point, each time it is brought up, members vote it down (=disagreement)

Laszlo Papp

on the other hand, reasonable downvotes are fully discouraged by minus ones, and only -2 rather than -10.

Bart

@LaszloPapp Downvotes happen. Just move on if they are truly unreasonable.

Laszlo Papp

Bart: I do not think I need to bring anything new to reiterate a discussion with new blood, and provide feedback.

Bart

@LaszloPapp You're free to try. But perhaps I'm enough of a pessimist to say that you won't get very far if you're not somehow novel in your approach.

Laszlo Papp

20:53

UV-D: Perhaps if it is brought up so many times, it should be now considered seriously.

Bart

It's one of those discussions where the response will be "oh no, not this again".

Pops

What makes you think that it wasn't taken seriously the first n times?

The community gave it consideration, and unfortunately, came to a different result than the one you would like.

Laszlo Papp

then, we need to consider another site option, we as in many disappointed people here due to this.

Bart

Ah come on @LaszloPapp, don't go that route. Don't drag in some hypothetical "many disappointed people". Unless you have facts to back that up with of course.

Laszlo Papp

I visit several irc channels, and ops telling me and others SO is bad because of the lack of quality.

downvotes are one of those reasons they keep repeating.

Bart

20:55

And of course all those downvotes were unjustified? Or simply unexplained?

Laszlo Papp

Bart: you can call me a liar if you wish, but I discussed this with many people lately.

and fwiw, those people had a modulo agreement.

Pops

You have just increased my curiosity.

Bart

I'm not calling you a liar. But building up your story around something we can't actually substantiate does not make it any stronger.

Laszlo Papp

Bart: go to #python and ask whether SO is a good site for python questions.

Pops

Not only do you dislike an aspect of the site, you're also a member of other communities that dislike aspects of the site. But you're still there (at least for now). Could you explain why that is? I'm genuinely interested in your motivation/process.

Laszlo Papp

20:57

look at what many people will tell you.

Pops: I am about to leave....

Pops: my last thoughts are proposals to save the site.

that is one of the reason why I am here.

I became very uncomfortable with the non-explained downvotes on this site.

I spend a lot of time with my answers to polish, and sometimes there are 1-2 people who downvote replies, even high score ones without any explanation. But again, it is not just me. I saw this happening with other people's answer, too.

Transcript for