Tavern on the Meta - 2013-09-07

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12:19 AM

@LaszloPapp upvotes over time should help resolve this though.

1 hour later…

user234239

1:46 AM

@jordanhill123 he should not be pestering the questioner to get the acceptance.

2:37 AM

@UV-D Agreed I forgot to mention that.

3:25 AM

@Pops Thanks for checking!

@animuson Thanks for being better at checking than @Pops!

I would still be interested to know why the employee declined the flag. It seemed clearly non-constructive (even if it was correct).

Ouch. Well, I'm sure not gonna help you now.

I know you're new at this =P

Or maybe, as a community manager, you don't have the same tools as an SO mod.

I do. But I got to the point where I saw that only the declining mod (actually a dev) would be able to answer, and I didn't want to poke him about it.

Ohhh, gotcha.

That dev is not in the running for my favorite SE employee.

Who was my favorite again?

He's also new. And the timeline on that post is... a little confusing.

3:39 AM

I think it was Anna Lear.

@Pops That's cool, man. You tell him we're still friends, regardless.

Mar 5 '12 at 20:04, by jadarnel27

Did I mention that AnnaLear is my new favorite SE employee for pinning that?

I knew it!

Your fave employee is the one who handles a bunch of the swag distribution, huh? Interesting.

I...uh...didn't know anything about that.

You can officially be in the running now, Pops.

4:33 AM

Finally. blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/09/…

5:29 AM

jordanhill123: change what?

jordanhill123: an incorrect answer is marked as selected with the reasoning it was the "quickest", meanwhile SO's goal is to be the best quality, not quickest.

user234239

6:24 AM

@balpha hello!

wassup

user234239

been a fun filled day here, grading physics papers and voting in the Aussie federal election

user234239

how has your day been?

it's just starting, it's 8:25am here

user234239

it's 4:25pm here

6:25 AM

starting what?

user234239

@balpha so what are your plans for the day?

enjoy a nice sunny saturday, and in the evening see fireworks

user234239

fireworks are awesome (except when they go wrong) - what is the occasion?

Pyronale is one of those competition where fireworks designers show off what they do

stackoverflow.com/questions/6990099/… -> can anyone accept my flag? It is a dup.

user234239

6:29 AM

that sounds eminently cool

user234239

I don't think it's a dupe at all, close but not exactly the same

user234239

@balpha how many contestants will there be at this event?

three on the first day (yesterday) and three today

the philippines, greece and spain

user234239

how were they yesterday?

I wasn't there yesterday, we're just doing one day

user234239

6:40 AM

that sounds a whole lot more fun than grading physics papers

here's an example from yesterday

user234239

that is totally cool!

user234239

absolutely brilliantly choreographed!

user234239

I could never do that, end up setting something on fire (like I do when I cook)

user234239

6:56 AM

well, Australia will likely have a new government this evening

9:40 AM

-1

Q: Coredump Analysis

I have observed a core dump on a UNIX server and have to analyze the cause behind it. Following is the output of coredump using mdb - Loading modules: [ libc.so.1 libuutil.so.1 ld.so.1 ] > ::status debugging core file of pmr_colld_aos (32-bit) from atrcxb2532 file: /opt/ericsson/aos/PDM/bin/pm...

any idea why the "poor question" was disputed in here?

what are we supposed to do here? I do not even understand how to backtrace a code without showing code.

You flagged that @LaszloPapp? What flag did you use? And what was the exact response?

I flagged the low quality question

as it is.... it is inproductive

again, backtracing a code without code, just binary blob tracing outputs ... ? It was declined...

Perhaps, it is time to think about a solution for reviewing reviews.

unproductive*

I've voted to close it for now. There is insufficient information to answer it

A VLQ flag however is mostly for posts that cannot be saved with any amount of effort

what should I have chosen then?

Anyway, that is a rubbish question.

It is impossible to help the user to backtrace a code and fix issues without code.

Going by his most recent comment I would guess he simply has no clue what a coredump is telling him

As for a flag, you could have gone for an "unclear what you're asking".

9:54 AM

I do not care anymore, personally, what he thinks. I lost my motivation after flagging it as inadequate, and then it is disputed.

I think that should be available to you, right? Via "it doesn't belong here".

there is no such an option, really.

no.

Hmm, given my privileges I might have a different view than you have. Let me fire up my sockpuppet and check

right, under that option it is available....

how unintuitive ....

"it does not belong here" -> that is the contrary of "it does belong here" like a question without information it does belong here.

why would I look for it under "it does not belong here"?

Seems like I got the victim of a UI mess up.

If you have a particular suggestion for a clarification, by all means suggest it on Meta.

9:56 AM

it is an unusable UI unless you already suffered.

and even if you had done, there is still the chance, you would be confused even at the next occasion.

also, what are we supposed to do with people who copy and paste our work into their replies?

how can this situation be handled?

I am not particularly happy when someone is copying my work

and selling it as his.

especially when that person clearly shows no understanding about the topic he writes about.

Copying your work from? A comment? An answer?

from my reply into his answer, yes.

how can this nasty thing be solved on SO? Is there a procedure for it?

Can you show me? The content you contribute is essentially licensed CC-BY-SA, which implies at least attribution is required.

1

A: How to check the selected version of Qt in a .pro file?

You can use conditional functions and scopes here: QT_VERSION = 5 # this can be 4, set manually equals(QT_VERSION, 5){ QT += widgets } equals(QT_VERSION, 4) { QT += gui } However, there are two things that you need to pay attention to in your original code: Explicitly defining the Q...

he showed no any understand about Qt.

somehow his awkward reply got accepted?

I felt the need as a Qt developer to urgently fix it and post a top quality answer, but then he took my idea and code into his, while still keeping the mess around.

He has now stated "as Laszlo pointed out"

So at the very least there is some attribution there

10:01 AM

Also, I flagged his offensive comment for removal

it did not get removed.

"@LaszloPapp I can see that you have a nice habit to place nonconstructive comments on any answers different then yours. "

that is a personal post for criticizing his writing technical about stuff he has no understanding.

it is hardly professional, and I flagged for removal.

in any case, "Laszlo pointed out" is not the same as "Laszlo's reply"

it is still a copy, and his answer is still a mess

what the readers would need to get is attention to the correct answer

If you so desire, you can downvote the answer if you like. But in terms of copying I don't think there is much that can, will or should be done

no, I cannot.

Why not?

Ah, daily vote limit I see

so, it is free to copy paste others' hard work, and sell it as yours?

seriously?

no defense mechanism against it on SO?

No, it is not. As I said, attribution is required. And though the author has done so minimally by now, he has done so.

You can bring it up on Meta and ask for input or different viewpoints than mine

10:05 AM

This is ridiculous.

He does not even need to refer to my solution

he does not even give an upvote for the copy and paste

and it is all fine on SO

and people can do this as they wish.

frankly, this is not the first time.

there are a lot of crap around

Once again, yes, if you copy and paste content from any post on SO or the SE network, you will need to provide proper attribution.

Whether you do so internally or externally

and when I post the proper good-quality answers, I often realize, all of a sudden, people copy and paste that back into theirs.

WTF

I can take all the content you have provided and post it on my website for example.

it is others' hard work

What I can't do is not provide any attribution to you

10:08 AM

Not to mention, I have no idea why his insulting comment is not removed.

anyway, I am collecting all these serious issues into a list.

which make SO a bad place to be at.

and things that I believe should be addressed.

copy/paste is definitely one of those.

.that still does not guarantee they will not get the rep and glory for your /hard/ work.

These actions go to simply this situation in my book: me and other experts will get demotivated to help improving the situation of very bad replies.

and they will leave at where they are.

and instead of fixing those, the crap will remain around.

they will not be happy to fix those if the awards goes to the people who have no any understanding about the topic in question, just hacked something together.

Also, why does he put attribute into his answer rather than just referring to my existing answer?

The only consequence it has, he will get the rep because the attribute will be inside his post.

again, full demotivation to the experts who write the proper answers.

0

Q: Copy/paste provided answer ideas and snippets into existing wrong replies

It has just happened to me in the thread below that there was an answer which had several mistakes, and there was pretty much no reusable bit inside. How to check the selected version of Qt in a .pro file? Then, I thought I would fix the issue with my Qt expertise and years of experience to get...

here is the thread I have just raised on meta.

2 hours later…

11:56 AM

any reason why flagged comments are not removed in that thread?

UV-D has a lot of personal insults and unuseful comments I flagged for removal.

they are still there.

"The OP is a Grammar Nightmare." -> such posts were also flagged for removal.

user234239

12:19 PM

all comments are now rightfully removed from that thread, bar Oded's comment which is a great summing up.

I would like to request the thread to be removed. Can I get help with it?

The discussion became quite personal, and I would not like to give my name to such a thread.

@LaszloPapp No, not going to happen. You can at most request that you be disassociated from that thread.

That right you do have

and there are answers quoting texts out of the context because they have been removed.

The thread will then remain, but you will not be associated to it.

at least remove the personal stuff

quoting out of context

i.e. clean up according to the history removed.

because it would be veeeeeeery unfair to throw quotes at me without the whole context.

12:22 PM

I don't see any reason to do so. You can flag for moderator attention and see what they think of it.

right, so others can do quotes out of the context which seem to provide bad public internet reputation?

is that what you are claiming?

No, those are words you're trying to put into my mouth.

Flag for moderator attention, use the "other" option and clearly explain what you want to happen and why.

it is already done.

and, pretty please drop your tone.

this is inappropriate language you are now writing

" those are words you're trying to put into my mouth."

I am not putting any words anymore.

user234239

how is that inappropriate?

The operation is unacceptable for me here, so I am going.

12:27 PM

Great

have a wonderful day

I got at least 5-10 personal insults in that thread.

I am not willing to contribute to such childing faithless and unproductive conversations.

user234239

and gave just as many

there was a real concern here about taking others' work. It is technical fact which was brought up.

Personal insults are misplaced.

I do not even understand how a question for finding a solution can get -9

what is meta for if not discussing stuff?

Anyway, guess what I will use my 40 votes in the upcoming days.

you cannot disagree with a question "how should this be handled?"

user234239

9 clearly did

1:01 PM

stackoverflow.com/questions/6990099/… -> why is this still not marked as dup?

You do realize it's the weekend, right? And that you're not the only user raising flags. And if several of your flags were declined, the weight your flag carries might have been decreased. Give it time. They will get to it. There currently are no votes for duplicate closure, so I'm unsure if it's within the close vote queue. And there are >75k posts in there.

you do realize many people work at weekend?

Sure, but moderation activity within the weekend is less. And the US day is barely starting. Give it time.

and no, it does not matter how many flags were declined (4/24, 1/10), reviewers should be objective, rather than subjective.

actually it was flagged during a weekday this week ....

not now, whatsoever.

If the flag is still active, someone will get to it in due time. There are tons of flags to handle.

1:10 PM

no wonder with this model.

it is not suited for having proper Q/A.

user234239

1:24 PM

@Bart how is your Saturday looking?

Quite good. Large cup of coffee, sunny weather, bit of coding. There are worse days. :)

user234239

it's almost tomorrow here... we have just changed the government in Australia

Results are in?

Ooh, Rudd is out I see

user234239

yup, the Liberal-National conservatives look to get 91, to Labor's 55

Hehe, a friend of mine is going to be pissed off. But primarily because of his internet. :D

user234239

1:27 PM

we still have mad Katter and now Clive Parmer as politicians - that should be interesting

user234239

lol

user234239

we now have Prime Minister Abbott

user234239

rudd is also no longer the leader of the labor party... but we all have heard that before

Just wait until the next elections

/me thinks someone ignored is talking

user234239

1:31 PM

yup, next election, actually probably next week knowing the labor party..lol

So a good day for you? Or merely another evil? :D

user234239

mind you, the labor party wasn't totlly decimated

user234239

LOL a great day... grading Physics papers

Haha, what's better than that... well, not grading them ... but still

user234239

not sure which physics teacher they were llistening to

user234239

1:33 PM

lol

user234239

tomorrow I grade taxation assignments...

Wow, living the good life. Don't have too much fun

user234239

LMAO... oh its so wonderful...lol

user234239

but soon, I get to write android apps in my 2nd job as a research assistant

user234239

how big is your cup of coffee?

1:36 PM

Ah see, now that is better.

Pretty massive actually.

Bigger than is good for me

user234239

lol, the best kind! i

What kind of Android apps will you be writing?

user234239

I have an image of you with a step lader to get to the rim of the coffee cup

user234239

more camera based apps

user234239

just got published for my last app

1:38 PM

Well, I'm 2 meters tall, so that would be a pretty damn big cup. Ooh nice.

user234239

camera-intents are incredibly powerful

user234239

i'm 4cm shorter than you

I'm hoping to release some mobile apps in the near future as well. But that still requires some work. And mobile platforms are far more annoying than the PC version. :)

user234239

very much so - a lot more constraints

Luckily Unity takes quite a lot of the sting out of it. But still

user234239

1:43 PM

when I started to learn Android, I lost quite a bit of hair, then it clicked - and once you gt one app working, the doors open to so many more opportunities

user234239

but I have been able to write apps that do what more specialised scientific equipment can do

user234239

98% accuracy

That's pretty awesome.

user234239

the other 2% I assign to the wheel of blame

We're still dealing with some difficult resource management at the moment. Doing sufficiently realistic real-time 3D graphics with are fairly texture heavy is quite the challenge

user234239

1:47 PM

especially when you get it to the apps

user234239

that must take a hell of a lot of time, but would be awesome and fun

I hope we can release it sooner rather than later. Especially because that means I won't have to keep my mouth shut any more. NDAs are terrible. :)

user234239

ah yes, they are a pain in the rear ends

user234239

but worth it ...in a way

user234239

but I am very happy to have got my phd submitted

1:55 PM

Ah nice. Congrats

user234239

that's the area that I am an 'expert' in - developing camera-intent based apps for atmospheric physics applications

user234239

and grading taxation assignments...lol

That's quite the resume

:p

user234239

lol

user234239

holy odd socks, it just ticked over into tomorrow

user234239

2:05 PM

well I better go get some shut eye and dream of taxation assignments...lol

user234239

you have a great day with that 2.5 metre cup of coffee

:D LOL. Have a good night

3:03 PM

@LaszloPapp You cast a recommend closure flag. That bumps the question into the Close Votes queue,so it could be quite a while before your flag gets marked as helpful, and even longer before it actually gets closed. Moderators do not ever see recommend closure flags, unless they happen to be reviewing in the Close Votes queue.

3:21 PM

@animuson do you happen to know if a significant number of declined flags still has an influence on the priority with which they are presented to a moderator?

@Bart Umm, I'm not really sure they're prioritized at all right now. From what I can tell they just get sorted by number of active flags then by time.

Okay. I was wondering. I know flag weight was abandoned, but wasn't sure about the whole ordering business. Thanks.

4:27 PM

15

Q: What is migration and how does it work?

I posted a question which was closed as off-topic and it seems like it could fit on another site in the network. How can I go about moving it there? What is migration and how does the process work? Who can migrate questions? When should I consider migration? What can cause migrations...

support migration faq-proposed

Someone read over that. I'm going to work.

2 hours later…

5:58 PM

Ignoring the rant from this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/196157/…

May I ask why stackoverflow.com/questions/15402637/… is closed?

Where is "too localized" when you need it?

Well, I would understand if it were "too localized"

But that reason goes poof with the new system

Yeah, I don't fully follow the "not constructive" angle there

Agree

Yet ironically the comment above it pretty much is. :)

6:11 PM

The problem with "too localized" was that it got used incorrectly more than it got used properly. We're working on figuring out how to reduce false positives so it (or something like it) can be used on questions that need it.

I haven't talked to Andrew about that specific question, but I would suspect that he just chose the closest close reason that still exists. That kind of question would have to be updated constantly until the end of the year, and would become useless pretty much the moment 2014 rolled around.

2 hours later…

8:41 PM

Is it a bug that I can still go into the close vote queue even after using all my votes? Or did something change?

9:04 PM

Get into it how @Seth? Sounds like a bug and I can't repro it

Yeah, I can still get into it.. And the LQP queue.

Odd that you can't reproduce it.

1 hour later…

10:22 PM

BrOwN.

11:20 PM

Hopefully not in your pants.

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