Tavern on the Meta - 2012-11-16

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12:07 AM

I Dredd the adoption of that petition.

2 hours later…

1:48 AM

extremelydelayedrimshot.com

1 hour later…

3:05 AM

@DanielFischer See, that's what I like about you.

One day I'll be one of the cool people.

I figure I just have to keep trying way too hard.

Who is this Josh impostor bullying me anyway?

@mootinator That's how I would do it. Also, don't be afraid to explicitly remind people how cool and important you are. So they don't forget.

There's been a Josh impostor in here?!

Wait.

Mwa ha ha.

!!!

> [Paraphrased] It's called the no Josh*es* club.

That's it.

I'm never trying to use markdown anywhere near a quote again.

3:12 AM

...said mootinator for the dozenth time.

Is that a word? "Dozenth"? Why didn't I just say twelfth?

Because I don't like words with four consecutive consonants, that's why.

I like dozenth.

Twelfth sounds so archaic.

It sounds like some kind of over-the-counter medication.

"Hey man, you want to take a bunch of Dozenth and then try to watch the Wizard of Oz?"

Do not mix dozenth with vecima*.

Alright. I don't get that one.

It's the made up name a company I used to work at came up with after being sued for their first two ideas.

Also sounds like a drug.

3:20 AM

Oh good, then I did get it. I got the "sounds like a drug" part, anyway.

Phew.

I didn't get that context, but it sounds like that would have been unlikely.

I used to mix Unisom and vodka. I imagine that's frowned upon as well.

I was hoping the context wouldn't really be important.

Yeah probably not.

It certainly seemed like a good idea at the time though.

"If this makes me sleepy, and this other thing makes me sleepy, certainly the two of them together will just make me more sleepy"

One has to give the makers of 'levitra' props for coming up with a made up word which conveys the idea they want it to.

3:23 AM

Agreed.

It's surprising nobody sells a contraceptive under the trade name 'abstinence'.

I suppose the FDA would not be impressed.

4:22 AM

> ...you will sometimes encounter a crotchety Sanka drinking neckbeard that can't stand whipper snappers on their lawn - Tim Post♦, this answer

I want to call someone a "crotchety, Sanka-drinking neckbeard" one day.

4:37 AM

hey jadarnel

later

3 hours later…

7:57 AM

we all hate rep whores. Now I'm the opposite. I don't like accumulating too much rep, and yesterday gave away 1,500 (one thousand five hundred reps) to 3 people. What would you call me? A rep philanthropist? Saint? or just plain idiot???

@HeitorChang A rep socialist, of course!

niiiiiiiiiiice

ok profile updated

Ahahahaha

thanks a lot

@Lix - Are you around?

1 hour later…

9:10 AM

Calling all @Tim - the holidays are soon upon us, which presents a bit of a namespace issue. You see, I'm about to become Tiny Tim, but we all can't do that. So should it be Tim(whatever)Tiny, or Tiny(whatever)Tim, or TinyTim(whatever)?

If I may suggest, how about a "single letter identifier" + Tim"... PTim, YTim, ZTim, etc?

that way you can ping like @ATi, @Bti, @Cti... etc

4 hours later…

1:24 PM

The most important thing is that we are still able to bother all the Tim's with one fell ping.

3

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

2:03 PM

@Shog9 I never knew u responded lol

1 hour later…

3:29 PM

@Tim In Objective-C, you might all become NSTim or UITim.

We need bit shifts in pings.

"bit shifts in pings"?

If the least significant timBit (TM) is high, it's me.

Ah, see. I was confused when you said we couldn't all be Tiny Tim, because I was pretty sure the system supported that. Now I see that you meant you would mercilessly harass and/or ban any other user choosing that name.

@PopularDemand Worse. I will force them to respond to everything in my inbox.

3:39 PM

user image

I think I'm going to go with Tiny Tim Post, leaving room for other Tims

@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA IT WAS ALL JUST A WASTE THEN

Stupid question: I just noticed my answer on this question was unaccepted. I'm not entirely sure what happened there, but am I right in saying that user deletion might have had that result? Is that normal behavior? Couldn't find any clear answer.

User deletion eliminates votes cast by the deleted user, and accepts are a type of vote.

Hmm, okay, like that. Normal behaviour then. Thanks

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

3:51 PM

@Shog9 :-P

It's nearly time to @TimTheTree

4:09 PM

@PopularDemand Oooh, I recognize that from art class last year. What's it again?

@Moshe You're such a student sometimes.

I think it's "The Paper Bag Princess" by Robert Munsch.

Also @jcole started it.

wonders what @animuson thinks about One Direction

For the record, I liked don't make Jimmy Wales a sad panda better than yellow 3 column plea for donations.

4:25 PM

@mootinator lol.

I'm not liking Twitter at the moment. Way too much ignorance and hate.

This is worth a watch. ---^

Canadians' opinions on Israel scare me.

Sometimes I think I was born on the wrong side of the border.

@mootinator What might those opinions be?

The Unhandled Exception

has snuck out of the back room!

@TheUnhandledException Hiya.

Oh hey, it's real Josh!

4

The Unhandled Exception

4:30 PM

Hello everyone

jco has been away, and Tim has been lax in his guard duties, so I was able to sneak past him out of the tavern's backroom and join the real party in here!

How are you @mootinator and @Moshe?

@Moshe I've gotten a lot of blowback on , say, Facebook for suggesting that the IDF isn't completely evil for trying to defend its borders.

@mootinator Ah, yea.

@TheUnhandledException I'm good, thanks. You?

HEY

The Unhandled Exception

@Moshe Doing OK thanks

@TheUnhandledException I've had a rough week, but I can't complain.

The Unhandled Exception

4:32 PM

@mootinator I hear you!

I'm working on a particularly annoying PHP/MySQL issue, it's a real pain in my ass... writing tons of logging functions to try and debug it

I wanna be a real ~~boy~~ Josh...

The Unhandled Exception

LOL

@jadarnel27 You can be Josh who doesn't abandon us for long stretches.

;);D

That is a rather long title.

The Unhandled Exception

@mootinator Blame my work and my pro-tem mod duties :-)

Work.

Right, that is why I'm at this desk.

The Unhandled Exception

4:43 PM

Oh crap, I just realized I left a tcpdump running for who knows how long. probably weeks. O_o

4.3 GB pcap file. WOW

4.3 GB in weeks is not that much

The Unhandled Exception

True. It was filtered to be MySQL only

And I really don't remember how long it was running

It's also stored on a ZFS server so it's really only using 2.2 GB

@TheUnhandledException You know we haven't even been keeping that door locked since I got a key, right?

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand WHAT!?!? No, I did not know that!

It's been a free for all in here.

The Unhandled Exception

4:46 PM

That sounds about right :-)

@TheUnhandledException You got lucky I was driving to work.

The Unhandled Exception

!!!!

hides

85 new emails, probably 0 of which are relevant to me...

The Unhandled Exception

That's always nice

Hey there @Zypher! How are you?

yo ... oh busy but not bad how bout you?

The Unhandled Exception

4:55 PM

Hanging in there

Oh, I was wrong, there was one email that was somewhat relevant.

The Unhandled Exception

AH HA. I have managed to reproduce this nasty issue with a tcpdump running and with my new logging code in place!

o/

The Unhandled Exception

Now taking bets as to if this will actually allow me to solve the issue!

Rebecca Chernoff

I'm going with no.

4:58 PM

Yeah, that's why I reverted to a half hooray.

Rebecca Chernoff

(:

The Unhandled Exception

7

Q: What could be causing strange query timeouts between PHP and MySQL?

I am the senior developer on a Software-as-a-Service application used by many different customers. Our software runs on a cluster of Apache / PHP application servers, powered by a MySQL backend. On one particular instance of the software, the PHP code to query the list of category names is timing...

mysql performance

@RebeccaChernoff LOL

\o/ ,o, /o/ /o\

@mootinator Is that last figure there doing a headstand?

Don't worry @TheUnhandledException, I am more optimistic. :P

4:59 PM

@TimYiJiang That works too.

Man, I can't stop yawning today.

The Unhandled Exception

ARRGGGH! Of course, right as I am testing this issue, the CEO interrupts me and asks me stupid questions, and then when he's done, I can't reproduce the issue anymore to troubleshoot it!. >_>

So @RebeccaChernoff wins this round ):

Ah ha, there we go, got it to happen again

I've assigned a UUID to almost every SQL query I run, and I am logging those UUIDs before and after running them so I can correlate when the system crashes with the tcpdump

query UUID ea9c6af7-a12e-4626-953b-27188044bda8 just hung. Time to fire up wireshark!

Hmmmmmm

@TheUnhandledException You're what? Stop wasting those! We only have a finite supply of them!

The Unhandled Exception

5:15 PM

Universally unique identifier

A universally unique identifier (UUID) is an identifier standard used in software construction, standardized by the Open Software Foundation (OSF) as part of the Distributed Computing Environment (DCE). The intent of UUIDs is to enable distributed systems to uniquely identify information without significant central coordination. In this context the word unique should be taken to mean "practically unique" rather than "guaranteed unique". Since the identifiers have a finite size it is possible for two differing items to share the same identifier. The identifier size and generation process...

> In other words, only after generating 1 billion UUIDs every second for the next 100 years, the probability of creating just one duplicate would be about 50%.

:-)

If you talked about this stuff in a real tavern, you would probably get beaten up.

The Unhandled Exception

That's why I don't :-)

=)

The Unhandled Exception

So what's interesting that I can tell from this new log (@TimStone) is that the request that just hung did finish... but after 325 seconds!

Yeah... that was the joke.

The Unhandled Exception

5:19 PM

I thought it might be a joke, but the lack of humor confused me...

;-)

@TheUnhandledException Have you tried turning it off and then on again?

The Unhandled Exception

@mootinator The irony being, that's been our solution to this problem the past few weeks :-(

D:

The Unhandled Exception

Restarting our application cluster and mysql server when it happens

This is the strangest f*%#$ing issue...

I had one of those once.

In that case someone had decided (in C) to declare an array of size 256 and then decide that writing into indexes up to 65536 was a good idea.

The Unhandled Exception

5:25 PM

Oh, fun!

@TheUnhandledException You'd better not return to the back room, because I'm going to start locking it again.

shivers.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand LOL. You know I'm just messing with you I hope :-)

Meh, I'm too lazy to make the room a gallery and then manually add all of the people who usually come in. You got lucky this time, Josh!

The Unhandled Exception

LOL

OK, well, from what I can tell from my new logs, this is a PHP issue, not a MySQL issue....

I think that means it's lunchtime!

5:36 PM

> Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

-Ford Prefect (Douglas Adams)

This is Stack Exchange, remember your attributions, man!

6:11 PM

@TheUnhandledException Don't admit that, are you crazy?

The Unhandled Exception

No, I just like my appliances

:-)

Also, I think I might be onto something

Check what I posted in the back room

Checking

The Unhandled Exception

(the last image :-)

Did you only log on the one end?

The Unhandled Exception

For now, yes

On the server side

6:16 PM

Ah

Oh

The Unhandled Exception

Well, no, wait

I ran tcpdump on the mysql server

The application side, right?

Oh

The Unhandled Exception

I generated log messages to syslog on the Apache server

Apache and MySQL are on two different machines connected by a 1000mbps virtual ethernet link

The last MySQL query was an update. This was performed by a PHP shutdown function

I believe maybe the clue lies in there

Somehow PHP took 5 minutes to send the MySQL Request Quit packet, and only after that 5 minute delay did the request actually finish

Are you explicitly closing the connection?

The Unhandled Exception

No. I'm going to try that next

Ah ha, this might be it, see the top comment

6:26 PM

Ah ha

The Unhandled Exception

I'm going to see if adding that to my shutdown handler fixes this

If it's as simple as calling that function, that will make my week

sighs

Sadly that doesn't fix the issue

Yeah, I didn't think that was quite your issue...Hmm.

Your callback is being called in a timely manner, but the connection isn't closing.

The Unhandled Exception

Well I'm not sure the callback is the issue...

I should run a tcpdump on the server as well, it's likely not closing any connections in a timely manner

including the connection to HAproxy

But I'l examine that more after lunch

1 hour later…

7:56 PM

Who does Popular Demand think he is, correcting me on Meta? We're supposed to be same-time brothers.

Lol.

The Unhandled Exception

8:09 PM

So I return from lunch to find our office net connection is down

Guess this means we get the afternoon off!

Ooh, SO is poised to hit 4 million questions.

I should refresh that until it happens instead of doing work, right?

The Unhandled Exception

Of course!

That way you might get swag

I missed out on that last time

Ha.

It's going too slow for my liking.

I'll just have to ask 600 low quality questions.

I shall entitle them all Programming Problem so as to attract the desired experts.

The Unhandled Exception

lmao

Rats, internet is back. Looks like I still have to work!

8:39 PM

hey folks sao paulo , brasil here

The Unhandled Exception

Hello @HeitorChang

city and country?

The Unhandled Exception

Mine?

Western NC, USA

tries to be disruptive

Why are we introducing ourselves as cities and countries now?

8:53 PM

104

Q: Bounty Hunter badges

I suggest two new badges: Greedo - first bounty earned (bronze) Boba Fett - earned 2000 rep through bounty (silver) Imported from Uservoice ticket, "Bounty hunter badges", originally posted by Jon Skeet.

feature-request status-completed badges bounty badge-request

Reopen votes go!

go web go

The Unhandled Exception

@jadarnel27 beats me

Dammit I missed that.

Saskatoon, Saskatchewan here.

I win.

All of your lives would be better if where you lived was more fun to say.

At least that's what I tell myself.

It's true, I live in a very boring place.

The Unhandled Exception

9:01 PM

LOL

So...Apple has been awarded a patent for the page flipping animation of an eReader.

The Unhandled Exception

@mootinator I thought this was a joke for some reason and checked your profile to see where you really lived. I was impressed with this:

120

A: Don't close questions where the user has requested that it not be closed

I would suggest that rather than closing these questions, we set up a migration path to Yahoo Answers. To prevent it from being abused, it would only be available when the system finds: "please" in proximity to the phrase "don't close" or "do not close"

+120 nice work @moot!

@TimStone >_>

I thought "Surely the patent must be a little more specific than they're making it seem", but it's not.

Thanks ;)

sao paulo rocks hard

brasil vs spain in FiFA indoor soccer championship on sunday

9:10 PM

Hi everyone, my name is Josh and I'm an alc- er, I mean I'm from NC, USA.

The Unhandled Exception

I forgot you were from NC also!

I told you he was an impostor!

The Unhandled Exception

=p

NC, The Josh State

I can only assume that's the official motto.

The Unhandled Exception

It is. Everyone here is named Josh. It's like Being John Malcovich only... not...

9:15 PM

Esse quam videri -- The Josh State

runs off to vandalize Wikipedia.

Yeah, I forgot you were from here as well, other Josh, until you posted that.

The Unhandled Exception

Lived in Wilmington, Raleigh, and now Asheville

(Which is my favorite)

I was in Asheville just a few weeks ago!

I really like that place. I ate at this excellent restaurant called "The Early Girl Eatery" (I think that was the name)

The Unhandled Exception

That is what it's called. I have never been there actually, but I ahve walked by it a number of times

It's on Wall Street

Yeah, that's the place. You should try it sometime.

The Unhandled Exception

9:28 PM

@TimStone Sorry, I failed to notice this was a link

The Unhandled Exception

9:49 PM

Hmmmmm. This is a nasty bug to find

@TimStone, it doesn't appear to be related to mysql_close :-(

So you saw the close immediately after the query then?

You should totally drop the mysql_ library and use jQuery.

The Unhandled Exception

Well, no. I added mysql_close()to my code, and the problem is still happening. In fact, I now have an example where it's happening in the middle of my PHP code

like I originally suspected it was

Ah, gotcha.

:/

The Unhandled Exception

9:53 PM

Bah! I forgot to run tcpdump this time! >_>

Do you get network responses in a timely fa...oh. :P

The Unhandled Exception

lmao

Time to recreate the issue again, lol

Seems to happen very reliably now...

what's interesting is, if I watch it via strace, PHP hangs on write(3, "0\\/media_images\\/1307812635.png\""..., 65528

which is likely what it's writing to Apache

Hmmm, no, I am wrong

RAWR

Hmm

The Unhandled Exception

I need to sort through some of these crazy log files for this most recent incident...

Interesting, this one hangs in the same exact place...!

which is right after authenticating the admin user...

And it executes SQL to note that the user was active...

...and then it hangs for 5 minutes. How odd

10:14 PM

@TheUnhandledException Somehow, even though you're doing work, I feel like you're taunting us with a series of "look what I get to do" messages.

The Unhandled Exception

lmao

I would gladly let you do this for me!

I am so over this issue, heh

ah ha. Right after logging the user in, we start the session. That's got to be where the issue is.

If you want in on the fun @PopularDemand don't be shy! :-p

@TheUnhandledException I'm not quite excited enough to drive to Asheville.

The Unhandled Exception

haha. Feel free to suggest what might be causing my code to lockup :-)

> Don't let it discourage you!! Keep Overflowing! :) (source)

I know that's meant to sound encouraging, but....

The Unhandled Exception

Although as long as rchern doesn't jinx me again, i think I might be onto something here...

@PopularDemand somehow it falls flat

10:26 PM

@TheUnhandledException Seems like that would involve a lot of 1) guessing how your code is structured and 2) reading the room transcript.... Oh well, maybe #2 will solve #1.

The Unhandled Exception

It would require a lot of #1 and #2 will just bring you up to date on my rubberducking :-/

I feel comfortable saying it's either a bug in PHP, or I must have created some nasty issue somewhere

I'm just adding more log messages, recreating the issue, and trying to narrow down where it's happening.

Little do you know it's actually the Pentium f00f bug.

The Unhandled Exception

or a 0xDEADBEEF bug

(I'm going to be eating lots of 0xDEADBEEF tomorrow!)

Okay, now I'm sure you're taunting us.

The Unhandled Exception

Going to a smoked prime rib buffet. Very excited.

10:31 PM

Mmm.

I've been meaning to go to Local Brazilian Meat Buffet Steakhouse Place

The Unhandled Exception

We had a great Brazilian Steakhouse in Raleigh, I miss that place!

I also miss good german food. I have been meaning to visit the Waldhorn restaurant in Charlotte. Been there @jadarnel27?

Why are you so red, 476 southbound?

shakes fist

It's Friday afternoon, before 6 PM, and it knows you want to get home. How did you not see this coming?!

I did, I did. I was just sad my predictive powers were so on the mark.

The Unhandled Exception

10:51 PM

So yes, it's hanging starting the session (CC @TimStone)

which... hmmm

it actually appears to hang at flock(10, LOCK_EX accoridng to strace

which makes a lot of sense

I thought your sessions were database-based?

The Unhandled Exception

Hmmm.... not my admin sessions...

why is that?

And when not using a database I'd use something like redis - probably much faster than files

The Unhandled Exception

Oh. I see why. For legacy code of course!

// Start a session (we use this to communicate with 3rd party products like the CMS iBrowser plugin

I may have figured this out just in time for the MSO Tavern Happy Hour!

:O

Bai, hitting the road time.

The Unhandled Exception

11:00 PM

Well I can't reproduce the issue anymore...

\o/

The Unhandled Exception

Later @moot!

@TheUnhandledException Aww. I missed out while I was doing my own Real Work. That's a... shame?

Unrelated: what would you all (well, mostly the Joshes) call this?

user image

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand A shopping cart?

A grocery pram, obviously.

The Unhandled Exception

11:12 PM

lmao

I just had to look up "pram." Fascinating. Or something.

You... uh, didn't know what the word "pram" means?

That is correct.

@TimYiJiang He probably doesn't spell colour properly either. :P

They're "strollers" or "buggies" or "carriages" where I've lived.

The Unhandled Exception

11:19 PM

Yes, in MA some people called them carriages

anyway, since I assume they still don't serve beer here and I believe I deserve one after solving this issue, I am off to Highland Brewing!

Ha! Carriages here always refer to train carriages

The point was that I was recently told that the pictured item was called a "buggy" and was wondering if that was just one weird person or a common name that was new only to me (since I'm not from NC).

@TimYiJiang You must have been really confused the first time you heard about carriage returns.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand I'll bet Marc calls them "buggies"

ok, later everyone!

@PopularDemand Actually, I'm still not quite sure what the word "carriage" is suppose to mean in that term

The carriage of the typewriter.

> Originally, the term "carriage return" referred to a mechanism or lever on a typewriter. It was used after typing a line of text and caused the assembly holding the paper (the carriage) to return to the right so that the machine was ready to type again on the left-hand side of the paper. -Wikipedia

11:24 PM

Apparently if you're getting married it gives you permission for you and all your friends to drive into the neighbourhood, horns blazing at 7.30 am in the morning

@PopularDemand In the distant mists of past when I learned English, these things were called "trolley".

Now that, I've at least heard of. British usage?

Sure, that's what counted as English then.

Maybe I should've just gone straight to Wikipedia.

@PopularDemand My parents (also from NC) call them "buggies", so that term is not totally isolated to the person you talked to.

Haha, nevermind then. Wikipedia confirms.

@TheUnhandledException I have not, but I keep meaning to check it out.

@TheUnhandledException Braza's?

11:51 PM

Don't should be take an operator precedence rule. — Roman C 2 hours ago

Can anybody translate that?

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