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12:37 AM
I'm pretty sure this got deleted because the one guy was randomly rude to him for no reason: stackoverflow.com/questions/3507840/…
That's fairly uncool
feels like he is on the outside looking in ;)
@michaelmrozek Oh, cool. Thanks!
It's tempting to write a tool that does that automatically, but I suppose SO would probably frown on it
Yah, probably.
@michaelmrozek It could also be that the asker doesn't understand the SO view on questions as content. Not that the rude answer helped any if that is the case.
1:00 AM
Oh, Futurama! How I missed thee.
2 hours later…
2:58 AM
@Shog - Does that OP just not get it at all? I understand the synonym UI isn't all that intuitive, but the poster seems especially dense...
@nickcraver beats me.
He's "Mr. XSLT" on SO though - maybe he's just that emotionally invested in the tag...
maybe so
3:21 AM
I also get the sneaking suspicion (although he didn't actually admit it) that waffles is deleting the synonym when it gets activated... So it's possible that's confusing our Dimitre as well...
Eh, @waffles? You messin' with this poor guy's head?
bah, he's snoozin'. Lazy Australians.
4:19 AM
Someone forget to feed the hamsters?
4:31 AM
How do images work here? :)
Just post the URL on its own line
Nice :)
I do enjoy hitting multiples of 1000 directly
@deceze well, that didn't last long ;-)
Darn, can 5 people vote me down please? ;)
4:35 AM
Oh, actually I hit 10k directly, I forgot about it; I just found the screenshot on my hard drive
@michaelmrozek Goes well with the avatar, too.
Wow, I just found this one:
It feels like forever ago
What was so significant about 635 that you still have that screenshot?
I have no idea. It was a screenshot of the whole SO homepage, I cropped it, but I see nothing interesting in it
Ah, I found a reference to it in my IRC logs; I was demonstrating how SO lets you mark tags interesting/ignored and how it highlights them
2 hours later…
7:09 AM
@shog .. i dunno ... seems like a big storm for very little reason, I made the UI a bit more explicit on dev
@waffles, good call on this one:
Q: Censorship: Lifetime of Stackoverflow account

edgardodelamantaI am back again - after all my posts (mainly about how to opmitize C code) have been erased without mercy (nor any warning). That's now the third time it happens. My sin? Having discussed Web application tools that outdo MICROSOFT products by orders of magnitude. My questions: How many amon...

He's asked the same question again (on SO), I think he's not reading properly...
7:24 AM
@Benjol he is banned from SO now ... really poor form if you ask me
@waffles, he'll be back, I guess... I wonder how many of these people just don't get SO, as opposed to being really malicious
causing a shit storm is not something that helps anyone... I think he is trying to plug his product .. there are tons of newsgroups and forums he can do it ... just go there
Of course, if you believe in a global conspiracy, you'll see it everywhere, (and it ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy)
It's actually scary that we deal with at least one of these guys a day
On any of the sites
But he provides premium content! He MUST be worth the daily drama to unban. /s
7:34 AM
I moderate at premium waffle rates. Therefore the cost of waffles compared to unbanning ain't worth the ban bonus I receive
Oooh.... waffles.
@spoulson, you want to start a trollsRUs stackexchange proposal :)
I am going to have a t-shirt made. Will moderate for waffles or unicorn horns!
Every community has some a-hole on a powertrip. Fortunately, this guy isn't a mod or Jeff/Joel.
But I applaud the passion in his efforts.
I dunno, I think the worse combination is when you have irrascible personalities + language barrier + internet anonymity + not reading the FAQ :)
I believe the term is eThug.
7:38 AM
well this is totally not called for en.wikipedia.org/w/…
Wow, he's got a grudge!
Wow... I think I take it all back.
This guy is a douchebag.
He fails at understanding basic business strategy. I suppose he expected nobody was making any money running SO?
@spoulson, or his own business strategy for that matter - pissing off the SO community is not the best way to get new customers...
I really think we could do with a 'debriefing' chat room, where people like this get 'invited' in for some kind of dialogue. (I know the most recent attempt didn't work, but hey...)
The problem with the last attempt, i think was everyone forgot the minumum requirement for rep for chat.
Its a time sink ... its not worth it ...
7:46 AM
@Diago, yes, I think that in these cases, that would have to be overridden, and the room would have to be 'disposable'
@Benjol Agreed
@waffles, maybe, but going round closing questions, (and rolling back wikipedia) is pretty time consuming too...
Anyway, I feel like sending the guy a mail because he's giving the .ch domain a bad name :)
there is no email ... he hid his tracks
I was going to send him one
Well, if it's the same guy : gwan.ch/en_contact.html
(And if it's not them, they might want to know that there's someone trolling in their name)
is there any truth in his claim that SO gets money from MS?
7:51 AM
that is how ads work .... we put an ad on our site and we get money
and sponsored tags for that matter
OK, so the money he's talking about is MS advertising on SO?
@waffles @waffles, yeah, but that's not the reason his posts get flagged? I mean, I don't imagine that the gwan thing is even on MSs radar, let alone someone from MS phoning up Jeff and saying "swat that thing"
I don't even know where his original account is
I bet he was plugging his product in every post
I don't get what the problem is with MS advertising on SO. To me that is a good thing.
for all
eg. How do I do XYZ in C#?
funny that you mention that G-WAN can solve your problem
7:54 AM
reading this: forum.trustleap.com/web/g-wanforum.nsf/…, it looks like 'Pierre' might be your man ;)
Anyway, you're right, this is a time sink. I'm going to go and do something productive, bye!
stupid benchmarks if you ask me ... why not benchmark against nginx such a joke
2 hours later…
9:34 AM
Anyone know what the exact deal is currently re VS2010 licences and TFS? Am I correct in my current understanding that if you have any license with MSDN, you get TFS too?
From one chat room
@Sam152, we can't, they can
To another.
I see.
ACtually I can remember it being tested
But I can't see how it's done :(
It was too late at night for me to follow the convo.
yesterday, by Marc Gravell
8 messages moved to The Tavern (General)
9:45 AM
Yeah. Not sure if it is a moderator or developer function.
And :
in The Tavern (General), yesterday, by Marc Gravell
8 messages moved from Chat feedback
So if no one boots us it must be fine?
I think the Tavern should be renamed to the Reedy Hut.
Or something punchier.
9:47 AM
Tavern is pretty universal, i think.
@Ocaasi , no, it just means the team are chatting in another room and haven't noticed yet :)
Yeah, i figured...
@Sam152 That post definitely should be in the Tavern :)
I'm giving feedback on chat!
Maybe we need a room to discuss which room different conversations should be in.
That's a good tactic. Would it be okay to ask a question on chat about why Ubuntu is better than Linux? Would it be okay to ask a question on chat about why programmers are mostly male. I'm not asking, I'm just asking if I can ask.
9:53 AM
25 messages moved from Chat feedback
So, this is the tavern...
@Ocaasi, yes
10:10 AM
Just got sent:
what is the malicius code on microsoft?
(after clicking a picture of lady gaga)
2 hours later…
afternoon all.
12:17 PM
12:36 PM
We've really got a problem with this room thing... Chat feedback is really like the kitchen, we just can't help drifting back again... (trying to find out what 'Mom' is cooking)
12:55 PM
Q: my account closed in MSO but not in SO

user150188Why is my account - http://meta.stackoverflow.com/users/138194/vgv8 closed in MSo only? IMHO there is more sense of closing account in SO but opening in MSO for clarifications of the reasons of closing PS It is not question, it is comment

I saw that :/
He's asking for a perma-ban
they confirmed that's not evan? :)
There's a link to vgv8 profile in the question
right, that's who I mean
FFS. Do some people never learn?
12:59 PM
People learn, but there is exception in life ...
and he's one.
@Nick it's not Evan's style
maybe a sibling?
it's his twin evil brother
I have a feeling this is not going to be enough.
Do you know if the IP bans are on a site by site basis?
1:05 PM
Well he's probably on a home Internet connection with dynamic IP
IP ban isn't really effective
As far as I know they are
I think the guy needs pulling into chat - though that didn't seem to work yesterday (I wasn't there, and the room's gone)
Actually, I think the IP ban is ridiculous in the first place. Maybe it's just my technical ignorance, but I work in an office, and I believe that the IP is the same for everyone on my floor.
@Benjol, and he doesn't have the reputation necessary.
@devinb It is one of the reason it is not the first option. We can however see how many users access the site from the same ip
@devinb, from what I read earlier today, if someone is invited to a room, the rep requirement doesn't apply
1:07 PM
However, if an IP is banned, everyone on that IP is banned.
@Diago, well at least that means you get all the other SO users on the IP to go and give the problem user a good "talking to" :)
@Diago Yeah, and I work with some jerks. I don't believe they are on SO though (they are far to selfish to share their "incredible technical prowess")
@Benjol Where did you read it?
:100000 Who had the 100000th message?
@devinb I think it's in the Chat Feedback transcript
@devinb Where can you see the id ?
@HoLyVieR When replying to a message
1:10 PM
It was Nick's " markdown test "
Is it just me, or is the sort order on the search a bit crazy? chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/search?q=rep+limit+invited
@devinb Found the reference:
in Chat feedback, 5 hours ago, by Marc Gravell
which requirements? If you explicitly add someone (as read-write) to a room, they can talk even without the 20 rep
Whoa @marc thought of everything.
@benjol 3 sort orders are available
1:16 PM
@MarcGravell, oh, yeah, my bad, sorry :(
Yay, @JoelSpolsky has arrived.
@JoelSpolsky Afternoon.
Gah, shouldn't answer questions early in the morning. End up rambling.
... like I'm doing now.
I miss the dulcet tones of Joel Spolsky on the weekly podcast.
1:25 PM
apparently, I shouldn't chat either.
@sam152 i don't
@devinb, as long as you're rambling in here, that's fine ;)
The podcast or the tones?
@JoelSpolsky How can you say that?!
my quality of life has gone way up since I stopped blogging and podcasting!
1:25 PM
The podcast was great ;_;
I have to agree with @Sam152. I haven't listen to any other podcast since it died
I do miss the podcast. Lots of great tech and business insight was shared.
@JoelSpolsky That's great, now do a podcast about it :)
Now I've just moved on to No Agenda podcast.
No Agenda podcast = 15 minutes of talking about people who sent in money, followed by, well, I don't know what it's followed by, I never get that far
1:27 PM
I always want to take a drink now, every time I see the excel icon.
Bad SO podcast habit.
@Sam152 Well if he needs to hear his own voice, it's not all that difficult. He can just call himself on the phone.
@devinb we have computers, there are easier ways :)
Fair enough.
@NickCraver Like speaking aloud?
@JoelSpolsky , you'll want to take it easy on the chat then... ;)
1:29 PM
well played sir
Ooh. I just found the button to switch of the annoying chat sounds
The huge black speaker icon?
Users never look in the obvious places
You JUST found that?
Yeah :( My eyes went straight past it to the more rooms button
1:30 PM
@Sam152 to be fair, I felt that way before the whole "drinking game" thing
@Shog9 You felt getting drunk whenever you saw the excel icon?
That's fair enough actually.
beer goggles make Excel into a normal app
So @JoelSpolsky, if you aren't blogging or podcasting, what are you doing with your time these days?
exchanging stacks
Of money.
1:32 PM
With who?
I want to have stacks of money exchanged with me.
if it's anyone other than you does it matter really? :)
I don't think he's exchanging the stacks. Merely accepting and arranging.
I'll only be impressed once you have a couch made of money.
@devinb To match you money coffee table?
tastfully-retro money hassock
I have one of those made of loonies.
Not terribly comfortable.
1:42 PM
@NickCraver You have blasted your way up that users page.
You used to just be tipping the first page.
2:20 PM
Is it overkill to do answer like this :
Or should I keep it shorter ?
A: Object expected error in Internet Explorer

HoLyVieRThe Problem The "Object expected"/"Object required" error message in Internet Explorer is rather vague, but it's usually triggered when you are trying to access an attribute of an element which is undefined. In your case, the undefined element you are probably trying to access is most probably ...

@HoLyVieR I like it
@Sam152 sorry was out and out, yeah I had some spare time between release cycles here and there
maybe it's me, I definitely saw this as relevant to web developing:
Q: What's the difference between hit "F5" and "Ctrl + F5" in browser?

Morgan ChengIs there any Standard for F5 and Ctrl+F5 action in browser? I once did experiment in IE6 and Firefox 2.x. The "F5" will trigger HTTP request sent to server end with "If-Modified-Since" header, while "Ctrl+F5" doesn't have such header. In my understanding, F5 will try to utilize cached content as...

That was DEFINITELY web-developer!!!
Why do super-users CARE what is being sent in the HEADERs?
2:36 PM
any way to un-migrate a question?
I created a superuser user, flagged for mod.
it seems that if a question with a lot of votes takes a lot of votes to delete, the same should apply to migration
@NickCraver I think moderators can, but I've never actually witnessed it
@NickCraver That's false, migrating should be done in the same manner as closing. Mostly because the people who are voting aren't necessarily a good measure of what's appropriate so much as what's fun.
true, but highly voted questions can be deleted with many many votes, but can my migrated with just 5
seems a little off
2:38 PM
That should never have been flagged for migration. I also flagged both ends of the post for mod.
@NickCraver Migration is different from deletion. Deletion is saying "this shouldn't have happened at all" Migration is saying "this shouldn't have happened here "
Also, it stripped Dancavallero of the checkmark.
also true, but the site it belongs on lost a possibly great resource either way, incorrect migrations are the problem area imo
doesn't being highly voted mean at least some portion of the community wanted it there?....i'm saying the reasoning behind the delete vote count changes isn't all that different
Nah. Community loves poll questions.
Community is fickle.
agreed, but this wasn't a poll question and it's a prime example :)
I'm saying that most voters are thinking "is this a good question" and not "is this a good question for stackoverflow "
2:43 PM
I agree on the votes to migrate being increasing. @Nick, put a feature request up and I'll upvote it.
if 3 people vote to migrate and 2 vote it's, well, anything else, what happens?
doesn't it get migrated? even if it's 2 votes and 3 split amongst other reasons?
@HoLyVieR I wouldn't worry about shortening it; in fact, you sorta gloss over the explanation of the problem
Why wouldn't you suggest that he check the return value of getElementById for null?
@NickCraver The plurality is considered the "correct" close reason. If there is a tie, the earliest vote (in one of the tieing categories) is considered the "correct" close reason.
@NickCraver It's not lost, Nick. Ask a moderator to undelete it on SO.
@Shog - I'm aware of that...I'm discussing should migration votes in general high higher vote requirements
2:48 PM
No, they shouldn't.
the community can vote to un-close, they can't vote to un-migrate, so they are special reasons
@Shog9 Hear Hear!
You're looking at the extreme fringe though. The vast bulk of these questions need to be migrated quickly, and making the requirements more stringent hurts that.
Remember what it was like before we could migrate questions?
we just closed them.
No answers.
Hurt feelings.
Bad times.
true, what if there was the ability to vote to un-migrate then, which took more than 5 votes, so the community could fix it
also those questions largely didn't have the number of votes this does...which goes back to scaling it, not just saying it needs more than 5, only if it's highly voted would it need that
This is all @Lance's fault for modifying the question.
If he hadn't edited the tags, then this NEVER would have happened.
2:51 PM
@NickCraver There's a little twist to that: if a question garners some attention at its destination, then "unmigrating" it ends up deleting valid answers there
@Shog - valid point, not sure there's an answer for that one...but what does a mod bringing it back do, leave it in both places?
@Nick I feel like both myself and shog are eagerly awaiting your feature request so we can tear it to shreds.
@devinb Well, you're being facetious, but there's something to that: if he was going to edit it, given that there was some discussion here about whether it belonged, he would have been wise to re-work it a bit to be more obviously web-dev oriented.
I do so enjoy tearing things to shreds
2:52 PM
@NickCraver AFAIK, right now it takes a moderator on both sites to completely unmigrate a question.
@Shog9 At the time, there wasn't really any discussion. I had just brought it up as a great question that I remembered.
I don't have the time at the moment, i'm chatting here between compilations :)
@devinb LINK!
@Shog - what's the result of that though? I've never seen an "unmigrated one"
here I am, for your pleasure
2:53 PM
what's what she said?
@NickCraver there's a bit of cruft (or there used to be) hanging onto the original, but otherwise nothing interesting - it's just undeleted and unlocked.
I thought it was the fault of he who posted it here yesterday.
20 hours ago, by devinb
Q: What's the difference between hit "F5" and "Ctrl + F5" in browser?

Morgan ChengIs there any Standard for F5 and Ctrl+F5 action in browser? I once did experiment in IE6 and Firefox 2.x. The "F5" will trigger HTTP request sent to server end with "If-Modified-Since" header, while "Ctrl+F5" doesn't have such header. In my understanding, F5 will try to utilize cached content as...

the destination(s) are deleted.
2:54 PM
well in @devinb's defense, he linked it to me :)
20 hours ago, by Popular Demand
@devinb Should that be migrated to SU, at this point?
Chrome 6 has horrendous caching issues atm, had to downgrade yesterday
The more astute would not that since I'm the one who brought it to Lance's attention, it's basically my fault.
But I would call those people brigands and make vague but insulting references to their mothers.
@Shog9 You're a brigand.
@devinb your mother taught you to instigate
@Shog9 Your mother is older than you are.
2:57 PM
(where is Diago when you need him...)
Q: Allow diamond moderators to reverse question migrations?

DiagoIt has happened on occasion, due to the high amount of 10K moderators on SO that questions are migrated to the wrong site, and needs to be reversed. Although currently it is possible to re-open the question on the original site and delete the one on the destination site, it still leave the migrat...

I think that would be an acceptable compromise - keep things in the hands of the moderators to avoid messy bouncing, but make it easier to "undo" migrations when necessary
I'm a huge fan of the moderators. I like this proposal.
I've given out a precious upvote.
More importantly, this avoids the worst-case: an off-topic question is asked, it gets two OT votes and three "belongs on" votes, migrated, migration overturned, OT question is now re-opened on the original site, wasting close votes
@Shog9 :D I love that your worst case scenario is having a post back on the site that you can't close
it's just awful, man... the stuff of nightmares!
you have nightmares about wasted close votes?
3:03 PM
no, about open questions
all of them or just some?
they start off as cockroaches, then they grow human heads, and then they chatter incessantly until I wake up
Shog9: you must have a passion for splatter/horror movies, I guess.
3:22 PM
This guy is out of control. He was banned on MSO again, so he started posting meta questions on SO instead
I'm excited!
Q: incorrect+insulting posts upvoted and correct+humble downvoted - why?

vgv8Why insulting, incorrect and off-topic posts are upvoted and correct ones downvoted? For ex., my correct information my account closed in MSO but not in SO is being downvoted while incorrect and insulting answers are being upvoted? One upvoted answer contradicts to my post and is being upvoted...

he is also pretty dumb to continue behaving like this. Ok, you screwed up, just change account and behave in your regained anonymity
It's crazy that he keeps posting, but he's right about some of the other posters assuming things they didn't know.
ha has time to waste
3:30 PM
@StefanoBorini That's what Meta's for
@StefanoBorini And chat was created for those who wanted to go above and beyond even that.
that's not how you're supposed to do it?
@Shog9 I seriously hope it's a joke :)
@NickCraver Meh, we've all written code like that when we're not paying attention.
i don't recall doing so, but i'd have blacked it out for sure so maybe
3:35 PM
Usually it gets written over the course of a few days.
Then you come back two weeks later to fix a bug. and you say. Who wrote this utter crap. I'm going to find him, and kick him off my team.
You call everyone together and say "Guys, this is EXACTLY the kind of crappy code that caused them to bring me in as team lead in the first place. If you don't start shipping better code, I'm going to have to pitch you all out the window"
Of course... that's never happened to me.
"If you don't start shipping better code, they're gonna make you team lead!"
Anyway, I don't trust anyone who doesn't make mistakes.
I only trust them once I've seen how they handle their mistakes.
i'm going back through now wondering why I chose to fade a page out and check for opacity support....rather than fading an element on top of it in the first place, way cheaper
Except me, of coarse. I don't make misteaks.
3:39 PM
@Shog9 "why would you knowingly leave a duplicate answer around?" YES. It warms my heart when I see somebody post a duplicate answer on a question and delete it a few seconds later
once SE gets up and going, will there be other migration options you think?
for SO for example the unix site, or the web admin one
It's going to get REALLY confusing.
@MichaelMrozek Yes. But it further chills my already-cold heart to see a user with massive amounts of reputation stand and defend his duplicate answer rather than spending any effort improving it.
Specifically for the Ubuntu/Linux&Unix sites, and there are a bunch of other ones where the questions could be validly asked in many places.
@NickCraver I rather hope not
3:41 PM
@Shog9 That's how he gained his reputation. G'head and check. Many of them are (unknowing) dupliacates
@devinb You talking about SaC? Yeah, he's... often very lazy.
I have a screenshot of this from forever ago:
@MichaelMrozek Nice. Though they do manage to distinguish themselves slightly in a superficial way.
I think most of those are pretty solid answers. Except that guy in the middle. He was WAY off base.
@devinb I thought this was how he gained his reputation? :p
3:43 PM
@NickCraver I would like to see other migration options, but the current interface isn't going to work if we start letting sites migrate to 20 different targets
@Andy - I don't think some posters read the entire question, this was from just a bit ago:
Q: How to get the count of selected values in a dropdown using jQuery.

BragboyHi, i have a HTML like this. I need to get the selected value's count using the tag. How to do that using jQuery. <select id="availability1"> <option value="Available">Available</option> <option selected="selected" value="Scheduled">Scheduled</option> <opt...

@MichaelMrozek I can see this being an issue if there are a few similar sites, e.g. migrated to Linux, migrated from Linux to Ubuntu, etc.
well, there's a lot of overlap: I don't think web dev questions should be mass-migrated from SO, even if they could be asked on a specialized SE.
@Shog9 That would make SO massively less useful.
I think this splintering is a bad omen.
totally agree with that one, web DEV questions should stay, web ADMIN questions I'm not sure how they'll handle
3:46 PM
i do wonder
We should have stuck to not-programming-related-at-all websites
one issue I have with migrations is you've earned enough rep to have a say in "what doesn't belong here"...but you may not have any clue at all as to "what belongs there "
with these closely-related sites i see that being an issue
@NickCraver That's been an issue already
@NickCraver Yeah; I used to migrate webapp questions to SU until finally an SU mod yelled at us about it
Although on a smaller scale
@MichaelMrozek Most likely me :P
3:51 PM
I thought SU was some acronym for a new trash bin, you mean it's an actual site??
Apparently they like to think so. Crazies
@NickCraver Don't knock SuperUser. Without it, StackOverflow would be overrun with those... (ugh)... peasants.
Actually the Top SU user is an SO peasant :P
@Diago Hush, I don't need your facts interfering with my witch hunt.
3:55 PM
Hunt away. Hunt away. I have my magic wand
@NickCraver you suggest that migration powers only be given to those with 3k on both sites?
@Michael - I'm probably the yelling one. I probably even yelled at migrating people before even being a mod
... innnnteresting.
@Gnoupi Apparently we are....... peasants?
@devinb oh, no more migration to SU, then?
3:57 PM
I think that'd leave a very small population who could migrate, but maybe at least 200+ or something on the other site
@Diago Nonsense, you're those guys that monitor the peasants.
@devinb More like babysit
@Diago Exactly.
@NickCraver That's exactly the problem.
Moderating MSO is a baby sitting exercise. You sit and wait for the sh*t to hit the fan. Because it will.
@devinb This was brought up on MSF (indirectly) meta.serverfault.com/questions/634/…
3:59 PM
Wow @Diago, you're really hitting the delete button hard today.
@NickCraver Also, it would encourage fewer correct migrations, because users would just be voting to close instead of migrate
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