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I asked what made it offensive because I was genuinely curious (hence why I had to write a question on another site to get some information about it).

I didn't mean to sound argumentative.

@JourneymanGeek Well, if I hadn't asked, I would still be under the impression that the term you objected to was "butt" (which would have ended badly for me lol)

Journeyman Geek

Sure - but do you want to be the guy people waste time on explaining things fruitlessly? And if I'm using that term to explain what it is, in detail....

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@JourneymanGeek I read on English.SE that it does not refer to explicit acts.

(If that's what the issue was)

Journeyman Geek

@TheforestofReinstateMonica See - you're literally carrying on what we asked you not to do

The forest of Reinstate Monica

3:27 AM

Ok

Journeyman Geek

I'm sure you're quite in the loop and know exactly what's wrong so lets drop it please.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I absolutely do not, but if you are going to suspend me for asking for clarification, then I will happily change the subject.

Journeyman Geek

Right. I think I didn't make myself clear enough.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@JourneymanGeek I wish we could start off on a new foot. Is there anyway I can restore my reputation with you?

Since this (sort of thing) keeps happening. I know I often push buttons. I'm trying to stop (old habits die hard).

Journeyman Geek

Well - if you don't push buttons, there's no issue

The forest of Reinstate Monica

3:32 AM

I'm trying not to but since I've done it before I feel like people are assuming it is what I'm doing. I'm not quite sure how to reverse that.

Journeyman Geek

I don't hold grudges - and I did give you lots of opportunities to step back

take it when its given.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I hope you can see it from my perspective.

Journeyman Geek

I'd have done exactly the same thing to anyone else in the same situation

Nothing personal. I ask humourously, I ask nicely, then I let you know I'm serious.

So - ball is entirely in your court.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I'd appreciate it if you'd be a little more blunt with me. Like if I'm saying something wrong, I'd be happy if you could say "please don't say X because it has connotations Y".

That would help me greatly. Or to allow me to ask you privately for clarification, for example.

Journeyman Geek

meta.stackexchange.com/search?q=q-bert

kinda is a useful starting point

If I need to explain why something is not welcome here, all the time, its a waste of everyone's time

The forest of Reinstate Monica

3:36 AM

I've read that, but wiktionary and the like don't consider it a curse or swear. I've never even thought of it that way. I didn't know that you (or anyone) did.

Journeyman Geek

Right...

See, I explicitly asked you to drop it at least twice.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

OK, sorry.

Journeyman Geek

12 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

"Please don't do that" .... can stop right there

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I haven't used any curses since then. I won't push it, sorry.

Journeyman Geek

45 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

Someone was having trouble understanding the rules of the place, and there was a failure to communicate.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

3:37 AM

?

Journeyman Geek

While this was someone else, try not to be this person.

Lets consider the topic closed, and move on.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

A failure to communicate is made worse it's impossible to ask for information.

ok, let's

So, new topic then?

@JourneymanGeek Can I PM you?

Journeyman Geek

No

The forest of Reinstate Monica

ok...

/me turns on ignore so as not to keep getting baited

Gah, I miss the /me action.

It would be pretty simple to implement on SE's chat code, right?

(Something akin to the IRC /action command)

Journeyman Geek

4:06 AM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica not a 'proper' answer but if its on MSE or SU I can probably help you find your old ava...

Baba Yaga

6:12 AM

@JourneymanGeek thanks mate

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@JourneymanGeek It was on MSE.

Journeyman Geek

i.stack.imgur.com/Bsdo5.jpg i.stack.imgur.com/mVwQm.jpg?s=128&g=1 there you go

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Yup it's the one with the æ.

Hasn't propagated to chat yet.

Journeyman Geek

Want me to kick it?

The forest of Reinstate Monica

hold on

Hm, rejoining doesn't do anything. Sure.

Journeyman Geek

6:23 AM

done

forest

test

Shows up in 1 of 3 places. Now it's probably just a browser cache issue.

There.

I got my æ-tan back and generalized my name more (since I figure the Monica situation on its own isn't as relevant anymore). Thanks.

I hate how comment pings don't update when names change.

Surely the system knows that it's referring to a name, given that it can auto-complete.

Also, on an unrelated note, I saw your post (from a year ago):

6

A: How long should SE store IP addresses of users?

I've thought about this for a while - and perhaps its worth reframing the question in terms of what sort of information we need, and how this information is best stored, and shared in a way that meets both privacy, and the operational requirements of both mods and the folks who run the site. TLDR...

I ran a website where I implemented this for moderators.

So I know how it can be done effectively and the upsides and downsides.

(tl;dr is use 32-bit block cipher or equivalent with secret key stored by the server, if I recall)

Well, 32-bit for IPv4, at least. My site didn't support IPv6.

Journeyman Geek

6:51 AM

@forest kinda sorta - IPV6 is completely useless for tracking purposes by eye IMO

(or you could be like me, and the only POP I could get IPs from hurricane electric is in HK)

also, very much that (what little) PII we have is mostly useful for handling the low hanging fruit of trolls and spammers

and a few tools either don't exist or arn't used effectively

forest

Sure but many users still don't like their IP being tracked.

Journeyman Geek

\o/

forest

I'm one of the few who doesn't mind using Tor, but most people can't stand slow internet.

Journeyman Geek

@forest SE vaguely has an alternative (geo ipish stuff) that... dosen't work that well

What 'we' really need is to know if 2 users share an identical IP or one close enough. And sometimes one user is deleted.

Even then

the first 'tell' is someone being 'off'

forest

"Off"?

Journeyman Geek

7:00 AM

lol

Its hard to describe

Lets ignore spammers for the moment

But people often have distinctive topics of interest, spelling or grammar patterns or other tells

forest

Oh, stylometry.

Journeyman Geek

We're not going to poke around someone's IP or email address without that

forest

Which is good.

Journeyman Geek

Its also all logged

though so far I don't think any mod's abused those abilities

forest

Though I tend to doubt that the limited level of interaction most trolls have with SE would make stylometry particularly effective, except for cases with the most extreme idiosyncratic tells.

Journeyman Geek

7:05 AM

@forest Most of our trolls are persistant

forest

Well this would probably be a bad time for me to bring up that major online dictionaries don't mark words you think are offensive as offensive. :^)

/me ducks for cover

Journeyman Geek

Yes it would.

forest

lol yeah I had that coming, but so did you. lrn2english :D

@JourneymanGeek Actually I wonder. Do you consider me a troll, or just a button pusher?

Journeyman Geek

Is there a difference?

You're pretty much trying to get attention in both cases

forest

Attention? On a small chat with half a dozen active people?

Nah that's not the heart of the troll.

(Actually here about 80% of things I get suspended for aren't trolling and are mostly your misunderstandings of English. And 20% are me pushing buttons.)

Or maybe 70%/30%.

rene

7:16 AM

30/70

forest

Depends on if I'm high or not. Then it's 10%/90%.

Journeyman Geek

I think rene is right there ;)

forest

I guess if you factor in being high it would get there.

But when I'm not, it's definitely 70/30.

Journeyman Geek

@forest Well - If you're constantly being misunderstood... or misunderstanding...

maybe its you

forest

Nah. I'm not the one who thinks that the word "hypocrite" is synonymous with the word "lying". Remember the time you kicked me because you misunderstood those terms?

That was... like 2 years ago? Something like that. But I remember some of it.

@JourneymanGeek m8 you never saw the old me

Back when I was younger and had so much more time on my hands. Back then everything was me.

(beleted so they don't actually find me lel)

(Which reminds me. If anyone comes in here calling me by a name that starts with an "e" and claims they're my mother, just ignore them. If you engage they will start spamming gore for months.)

Woah that was weird. My whole browser reloaded.

Journeyman Geek

7:26 AM

Right. That very much sounds like a threat.

And no idea why your browser reloaded...

forest distrusts StackExchange

It's not.

I would never dare tell them I'm here. They make my life hard.

Journeyman Geek

Well it does. And lets be really honest here. Why am I expected to forgive and forget when you're dragging out stuff that happened 2 years ago? :D

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Man you completely rebuffed my attempt to fix things.

Journeyman Geek

Works both ways.

forest distrusts StackExchange

Guess our personalities are just too different.

I like knowing what other people want. You like people doing what you tell them.

(But the fact that you didn't insta-ban me for bringing up that previous misunderstanding you had does inspire some confidence that we may one day be able to get along)

Although the fact that I changed "a little" to "some" because I didn't want you to think I meant "little" and kick me for saying that I have little confidence in you, doesn't. :D

At least it's sparking the linguist in me. That's a subject I really want to get back into.

Random fact of the day: Some people try to claim that the Finno-Ugric language family is related to the Japonic family. Those people are, of course, idiots.

Another fun fact of the day: "Finno-Ugric" is really fun to say.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

7:47 AM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange chat reloads when there was change of name/avatar.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Of anyone's, not just mine?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@forestdistrustsStackExchange your own, others have to reload manually as far as I know.

forest distrusts StackExchange

Huh. Well it just happened randomly, not when I changed anything.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@forestdistrustsStackExchange sync can take up to one hour, didn't you change name/avatar today?

forest distrusts StackExchange

Yeah but it already changed. I think @JourneymanGeek manually refreshed it or something.

Journeyman Geek

7:49 AM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I'm trying to be nice and helpful :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@JourneymanGeek you are! :P

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah, manually forced a sync with your main account

forest distrusts StackExchange

You were helpful. (thanks)

Journeyman Geek

Chat's a bit.... quirky and that's usually a way to speed things up

forest distrusts StackExchange

Hm, now I have a dilemma. My name in chat and in comments is a little confusing. Dare I use something akin to camelCase to make it more readable?

Or would that make someone think I'm a gasp JAVA developer??

Journeyman Geek

7:51 AM

Eh, spaces in usernames is fine. Though I'm sure at least one employee would be annoyed at the lack of the space in Stack Exchange

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Actually I did want to make a space, but there wasn't enough room.

And "forestdistrusts" is less readable than "forestDistrusts".

>Display name may only be changed once every 30 days; you may change again on May 25 at 6:25

gah

Journeyman Geek

lol

I always forget that

forest distrusts StackExchange

It's only changing a letter to caps! FFS it's changing a "1" bit to a "0" bit.

Journeyman Geek

sigh What's the exact username you want?

You're going to be stuck with any typos you make.

forest distrusts StackExchange

uuuuh actually I'll wait for a few days and see how I like this one.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

7:54 AM

@JourneymanGeek oh, it was broken?

Journeyman Geek

works for me

forest distrusts StackExchange

I'm not ready for people to think I know Java by disgracing my name with camelCase.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard no more than usual

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Maybe that'll just be a pleasant side-effect. :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

lol

forest distrusts StackExchange

7:55 AM

Didn't even think of that.

But I wonder if it'd annoy them, or make them think I'm ignorant (analogously to how anonymity researchers think of people who say "TOR" instead of "Tor", despite it also annoying them).

Journeyman Geek

Yes

forest distrusts StackExchange

Logical yes. Gotta love dem unions.

Journeyman Geek

more seriously, If you want to say you distrust the company stack overflow is more accurate

forest distrusts StackExchange

Yeah but everyone thinks of "Stack Exchange". I don't distrust the SO community.

Journeyman Geek

on the contrary

forest distrusts StackExchange

7:57 AM

Although I do find many of the posts and comments there pointless and inane.

Journeyman Geek

the company's official, doing business as name is SO

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek I mean... everyone who distrusts SE. All over meta people talk about how SE has screwed them or how SE staff are doing damage. Never SO staff.

No one says SO has to apologize to Monica (etc).

Journeyman Geek

but they mean SO the company

:D

forest distrusts StackExchange

My loquacity may be overwhelming at times, but no one has accused me of choosing my words well!

:p

forest distrusts StackExchange

9:21 AM

lols

Rob

10:53 AM

The Trademark is on Stack Exchange, while the Copyright is on both names: stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance stackoverflow.com/legal/terms-of-service/public#licensing

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

11:46 AM

Let's make it simple by renaming the company to Exchange Overflow.

Or more accurate, Confusion Overflow (TM).

I bet very few, even inside the company, really knows for sure what is the actual name, what is the trade mark name, etc. And even they got it wrong. lol

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I take the the view of stack overflow when I am angry and stack exchange or stack when not 🤣

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

lol

Meta Andrew T.

Stack Exchange Overflow (SEO)

3

Also good for SEO, I think!

Mithical

1:14 PM

@JourneymanGeek that's why I usually just clarify with "the company"

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

painting on @M.A.R.'s book

M.A.R.

3:44 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard way ahead of you

Mithical

5:34 PM

→ 3 messages moved to Trashcan

Meta Andrew T.

I forgot I don't have any power on this chat server...

but I guess one piece of advice: as long as y'all don't make trouble for the mods anymore, including on the other new room.

user334271

Any biochemistry/ biophysics people here?

user334271

Any biochemistry/ biophysics people here?

Tinkeringbell

@MetaAndrewT. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It shouldn't need to be said, but I do it now: Creating new rooms to circumvent restrictions in the old one, is like creating new accounts to avoid restrictions on an old one: NOT DONE.

M.A.R.

5:54 PM

@AlwaysConfused I'm not a biochem person but I took an introductory course therefore I am an encyclopedia of biochem

M.A.R.

6:06 PM

Well, an introductory course and another course

user334271

@M.A.R. MAR and anybody can you have a visit on this:

user334271

1

Q: Ramachandran plot Phi(ϕ) Psi(ψ) dihedral angle Convention for Zero, Positive and Negative value

G.N. Ramachandran et al, in their own work (PMC) (DOI), did not used phi(ϕ) and psi(ψ) as we use today. They used phi(ϕ) and phi-dash(ϕ') defined as follows: The conventions we have adopted for the standard configuration ϕ = ϕ' = 0°) and for the positive sense of rotation for the two angular par...

user334271

?

user334271

I am crawling the web many years to get answer to this very very basic convention

user334271

but no answer anywhere

user334271

6:18 PM

Phi and Psi dihedral angles are alphabets of protein. They are as basic as that. Yet nobody wrote anywhere how the phi and psi dihedral angle is being counted. That is ridiculous.

user334271

Even countless softwares using phi and psi values, no mention of definition of zero-point for phi psi.

Meta Andrew T.

As far as I'm trying to understand the title, they all look Greek to me...

user334271

Its about protein conformation

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

7:24 PM

That poses a chicken-and-egg problem: you can't release a new build to an unsupported app to say so, since you also need to support the app at the same time. — Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog 3 mins ago

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