Tavern on the Meta

12:00 PM

but getting it popular needs...

I don't think this is going to end well. Once Robert step down, Boltclock will be the oldest elected mod and he made a statement here meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/389906/…

Journeyman Geek

well qualities that seem lacking

john

It was Experts Exchange, without the evil. Hence the reference.

John Dvorak

@JourneymanGeek Siphoning users off SO will be a great start, and with the recent turn of events, the spice will flow easily.

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak a few folks tried that

StephanS

12:01 PM

where's jon skeet when you need him

Journeyman Geek

there was this discourse site...

aloisdg

I think even Jon Skeet cant get an answer from Stack Exchange Inc.

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak I guess it comes down to - aside from politics, what can you offer that SO can't? How do you build value for your users?

john

@JourneymanGeek kids ask stuff at Discord servers, if that's of help to anyone.

Journeyman Geek

@john and in my time, IRC

john

12:03 PM

You don't say that, because IRC has no end.

Whenever Discord falls apart, IRC will be there.

StephanS

I mean building an alternative SE isn't hard but the server space would be expensive

John Dvorak

@JourneymanGeek Aside from politics, there's not that much reason to make a clone.

john

@JohnDvorak those'r very well put thoughts, but... you know what kids at Discord tell me whenever I go mad saying them "go ask Stackoverflow because it's for that purpose"

they tell me "but we're a community"

Now I've no idea what's that, because it means nothing for me. But there they are.

aloisdg

I hate chat. Chat is awful for long term Q&A.

StephanS

talking about making a SE clone inside of SE chatroom.

aloisdg

12:06 PM

There is a ton of chat out there and no one is a threat for SO.

John Dvorak

The community still exists, and if the only way to keep the community is mass exodus, so be it.

user474678

You guys should see the SO meta room.

user474678

*people

John Dvorak

I do

aloisdg

same here

user474678

12:07 PM

The Meta Room

General chat & hangout for Stack Overflow, including Meta disc...

14

5

Journeyman Geek

@aloisdg I love chat. Just not for end state Q&A

Bart

Should we really see that, or more in a "stay the heck away from that dumpster fire" kind of way?

john

I joined, could be worse

Just people pissed off, it'll go calm

John Dvorak

It's lively and maybe a little jumpy to conclusions, but who isn't these days?

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak hopefully we arn't!

john

12:11 PM

I'm uprego at freenode by the way (before this gets moderated).

Journeyman Geek

well lively is good

john

@StephanS for stuff

rene

@Bart we need safety glasses before we go in ....

Bart

@rene I fear I'm not going to be of much help. :D

StephanS

calling it a dumpster fire is kinda an understatement

rene

12:20 PM

@Bart I beg to differ ;)

Bart

At the risk of being inappropriate, I just read up a bit on the whole Monica/Mod situation ... wtf is happening to this network? What a shitstorm. Every time I come back here I walk out a bit more disillusioned.

Journeyman Geek

@Bart let me know if you find out

Magisch

@Bart do tell when you find out wtf is happening

none of us have a bakers clue either

Bart

Not sure I wanna anymore @JourneymanGeek . I still come in here from time to time for he people I know. But holy corporate crapfest people.

John Dvorak

@Bart The short answer to what is happening: a lot of .. something, and nobody really knows what to expect.

Predictions range from the dawn of a new age to the unfolding of the fabric of spacetime.

Bart

12:23 PM

@JohnDvorak the latter would be unfortunate. do you know how difficult it is to fold that shit?

John Dvorak

@Bart The guy who made the first one has promised to keep it in place, and also that anyone would have available a path that leads to their continued existence. But no promise that everyone would be willing to tread that path.

Mgetz

@Bart The conflict that inevitably happens when a site based around community needs to transition to making money and makes policy changes to effect that.

Bart

12:39 PM

Are you okay @JourneymanGeek? :D This is the second two letter @ I see now from you

Journeyman Geek

@Bart sorry

having a fast moving conversation elsehwee

Robert Columbia

While this dumpster fire may provide some temporary heat to a chilly situation, it is better to promote a general culture of being nice to each other and adjusting the climate control systems in a rational manner. Dumpster fires are not good for the environment and increase long-term costs for everyone.

Bart

Something like a summer of love? /s

Robert Columbia

One where winter is coming.

Journeyman Geek

1:03 PM

@RobertColumbia I hope for dawn's light after a night that seems to have stretched on for years.

But I do not know where the sun is.

Mgetz

@RobertColumbia if this wasn't an old issue I'd agree, but this has been going on for years, nothing happening here is new or honestly interesting. It's just the latest incarnation of a conflict that's been around for about as long as I've been using SO.

The unwillingness of SE to just decide who they want to be is the core of the issue IMHO.

John Dvorak

@Mgetz You mean that SOinc is playing two fiddles at once, and both of them badly?

Mgetz

@JohnDvorak not sure it's exactly two, but yes. They are trying to keep the experts and the newbies happy and they are failing spectacularly at both.

Ian Kemp

it's more like they think they're playing fiddles but actually they're trying to eat them

John Dvorak

I do suppose that is true

@IanKemp LUL

Thank you for the mental image. I needed it and I love it.

Mgetz

1:12 PM

To me part of the issue (but not the whole) is that they are trying to be a for profit company. That inevitably leads to compromise policies that favor corporate security over the security and stability of the community.

410

Are we still keeping track of resignations?

4

Q: Resigning as moderator

With sadness I wish to make you aware that I am stepping down as moderator from this site. There are a number of reasons for this, but the primary immediate causes are Stack Exchange's disgraceful treatment of Monica Cellio and new mandates that will soon be added to SE's Code of Conduct. I a...

discussion

6

Q: Resigning as moderator

With sadness I wish to make you aware that I am stepping down as moderator from this site. There are a number of reasons for this, but the primary immediate causes are Stack Exchange's disgraceful treatment of Monica Cellio and new mandates that will soon be added to SE's Code of Conduct. I a...

discussion featured moderators

Or should that be on a wiki somewhere.

Mgetz

@410 you can probably update the main question on meta.se

particularly since it is related

410

Good idea. Rand beat me to it.

Not fond of the licensing being included in that post, but whatever.

Journeyman Geek

@410 nor am I

Mgetz

@410 yeah, but it's an example of the endemic issues that are going on. I think what they are going for is a clear list of gratuitous grievances.

Off topic thought: Maybe the mods should unionize?

410

1:16 PM

They are not employees

Mgetz

@410 and yet they are performing a critical function to the operation of the business

Ian Kemp

@Mgetz not critical enough in SE inc's eyes

besides, mods aren't paid, they're volunteers

Mgetz

@IanKemp Neither are grad students but they are allowed to unionize

Ian Kemp

@Mgetz fair enough

John Dvorak

@IanKemp it'll be critical soon enough when it stops being performed

Robert Columbia

1:20 PM

Should we create a tag for moderator resignations? Maybe moderator-resignations or even dumpster-fire-2019?

John Dvorak

no

Ian Kemp

i suggest se-inc-blows-goats

Robert Columbia

@IanKemp that's not kind to the goats.

John Dvorak

be nice

Mgetz

moderators-on-strike

Ian Kemp

1:21 PM

revolted-moderators-revolt

Mgetz

@IanKemp guardian-headlines

actually that's more the Register

StephanS

this was posted to SO.meta

77

Q: I am resigning as a moderator

I am stepping down as a moderator, and you deserve to know why. I cannot condone actions that the company has recently taken (behind close doors, although I expect more will become public soon). Social life means being confronted to different points of view. This is especially true on in an inte...

discussion moderators

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek I'm skeptical.

@Mgetz Whoa, that already happened?

Mgetz

@M.A.R. nah just the sort of headline they (actually The Register) would use.

Journeyman Geek

@RobertColumbia I'm currently not a moderator but ... no

Robert Columbia

1:25 PM

teapot-tempest-2019 winter-is-coming-2019 se-is-dead-film-at-11 moderator-apocalypse-2019 night-of-the-living-resigned-moderators

M.A.R.

@RobertColumbia I'm currently not a moderator but . . . no

Journeyman Geek

@RobertColumbia does this seem...

funny to you?

Robert Columbia

@M.A.R. ok

@JourneymanGeek overall no, I was trying to introduce a little humor to help keep things in perspective.

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek tbf it never hurts to stop and laugh at yourself for a bit, it usually helps defuse the tension

Ian Kemp

if you can't laugh about something you love going down the toilet, what sort of life are you living?

6

meh, i'm probably not that upset about this because i've been expecting it for the past half decade

Bart

1:28 PM

I came here as a distraction from my slowly developing migraine ... having read up on stuff, I'm not sure it has improved much :D Time to head out again. Good luck to those who stick around. It looks like you'll need it. ;)

Ian Kemp

hope yer migraine improves @Bart, and go well

Mgetz

Semi-NSFW (monty-python) youtube.com/watch?v=JrdEMERq8MA

Ian Kemp

i've gone off monty python ever since john cleese revealed himself as a brexiteer nutcase

Mgetz

good thing that's eric idle?

ArtOfCode

2:51 PM

waffles

Shadow The Coffee Wizard

There's still a grain of dust left. Need a mod to remove it. But wait, they fired one, and another one has left. No mods here now. And yes I'm seeing myself out now. (Need to wash dishes) so, cya!

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard My hammer is too heavy :/

Shadow The Coffee Wizard

@JourneymanGeek I read that. I admire you. I really do.

Thanks, and I'd do the same in your place.

Optimus Prime

I just edited my profile in Stack Overflow to put a notice

Not being a mod or high rep user, all I can do is putting that there and yeah, I did it

410

3:18 PM

Was there something about SO mods controlling featured tag now?

Did not last long.

Andras Deak

@IanKemp that's one of the weirder reasons to quit watching comedy

SPArchaeologist

yawnn... to late the featured tag removed was. Read already it I had.

Andras Deak

3:35 PM

fortunately Tim has the blue [moderator] tag on his profile so it's technically not a non-moderator fiddling with the featured tag (as opposed to the "no hot meta" announcement saying that mods will decide what's featured)

it's probably in the interest of transparency and open discourse

nevermind chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/46877394#46877394

Andras Deak

3:51 PM

If a current moderators wants to feature this (we're in the process of assisting everyone that wanted to step down this AM) then they can. As the current mods have to deal with it being featured, it's up to them. — Tim Post ♦ 3 mins ago

Princess Olivia

:face_palm:

Andras Deak

hat-tip to BoltClock (it's featured again)

Optimus Prime

Edit summary my name is not Robert Harvey

Well played BoltClock

canon

What a Fire Festival...

Kevin B

meh

canon

4:10 PM

@KevinB not particularly moved by the SE-versus-mod drama, eh?

Kevin B

no, not really. it's just more of the same. They're not gonna listen, why bother trying to make it something. it'll all be nuked in a week or sooner anyway

Andras Deak

4:25 PM

I'd say the fact that more than a dozen mods have gone *poof* makes a difference, but meh

ndugger

I think the bad publicity will force them to write another blog post about how it makes them sad, and then promise to fix things, and then make it even worse... again. Either way, it's entertaining to watch unfold.

Andras Deak

all good things happen after blog posts

410

4:47 PM

Caleb's post is great, btw

> The new tolerance is tolerant of everything except disagreement.

410

5:34 PM

edit war over the featured tag

It would make sense if each of them expressed their position by editing once.

Kind of like it works with closing/reopening.

Kevin B

They have a chatroom for that

410

we know how well chatrooms work by now

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@410 That's a wheel war

410

UMZ #10 topic is so apt.

Topic suggestion: How can we handle problem staff. — Luuklag 3 hours ago

Feeds

6:01 PM

I want to sell apples but I'm still working on getting the machine to do the cutting and grafting.

dim

6:36 PM

Do you think the SE offices are on fire, with every employee panicking, and last minute barainstorms improvised to find strategies for patching the moderator leaks, or do they just go: "well, things will sort themselves out"? I wonder how the mood is, over there...

410

They are busy closing huge deals

And welcoming the new CEO who officially takes the position tomorrow.

Andras Deak

welcoming?!

410

ok, also including.

Princess Olivia

We'll see how that goes

rene

I'm pretty sure they have a plan but no battle plan survives contact with the enemy a famous field marshal once said. So I think a few plans have to be adjusted. I'm not going to predict in which direction as that would only add to the speculation.

410

6:43 PM

Too bad we don't have Augur Stack Exchange to help with predictions.

dim

@410 Yes, I had seen that... And I was also wondering how it could be like to be appointed CEO in such a messy situation. But of course, this is only relevant if they aren't like "well, things will sort themselves out"... Anyway. I hope they will sort themselves out.

410

CEO doesn't have to deal with any of that. He can delegate to someone who delegates to someone who delegates to someone.

And go on figuring out the next round of investment, IPO, hyper-growth, or the source of more huge deals to close.

i hAve not yet seen this kind of cApitAlizAtion

dim

@410 I'm wondering that, as well (yes, I'm wondering a lot of things)... Because if, at some point, this mess leads to less site visits (because it drives people away), and therefore a devaluation of the ads revenues, the CEO will sure have to think of a strategy without delegating that much. And StackExchange isn't such a huge company, I'm not sure the organizational chart is that big.

410

I don't expect any noticeable traffic impact. People will still be getting their programming work done, or puzzling over chess problems, or over math homework, etc... hardly noticing any meta, CoC, license, blogs, ...

The majority of visitors are non-logged in non-users.

John Dvorak

7:02 PM

@410 I do suspect the lack of moderators will be quite visible

410

On some sites, yes. But those are not centrally important sites.

Take the list of sites, sorted by traffic. Close the bottom half of them. Voila, 50% less headache in terms of mod appointments / elections / resignations.

dim

So, basically, you're saying what happens now won't have any impact? Well, I was afraid to hear that, but, well...

410

Well-trafficked websites have a way of kind of going. People still have fun on MySpace, blog on LiveJournal, chat in the abandoned support rooms of Windows utilities...

John Dvorak

@410 ouch

If they close PPCG and puzz... just after they decorated it with paint... that'd make me unhappy

HDE 226868

7:18 PM

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, as a mod on several smaller sites, but . . . Astronomy, for instance, has a substantial number of views per day, looking at the analytics. And when there's a major event - the Event Horizon Telescope announcement, the paper on Planet 9, the first gravitational wave detection - we become fairly visible on the Internet (~tens of thousands of views per day) when it comes to dealing with those topics. Many thousands of views per day seems reasonable.

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