Tavern on the Meta - 2019-03-15

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Sonic the Wizard Werehog

12:48 AM

@Tinkeringbell I thought parrots and guinea pigs don't interact well...

1 hour later…

user302202

2:04 AM

Second this. You do not "fix" Unicode. You writes your code, then you prays for mercy, then you dies. Your corpse decays. The world forgets you, moves on, grows cold. But Unicode will still be there. Eternally laughing at your folly. https://twitter.com/ManishEarth/status/1106288647928635392

Tweeted by shog9 on March 15, 2019 at 12:57 AM

user302202

status-drunk

user302202

Watching some Jason Bourne movie I don't even know. AMA

user302202

3:08 AM

With 13200+ primary votes, Baum is now in 2nd place all-time, behind Aaron Hall's 15985 in election #8.

user302202

@Bookends You are not the only one wondering.

user302202

0

Q: What happened to this user?

I noticed it a while back that one of our regular contributors (who used to go by a different moniker) was suspended early this year. I Am just wondering Why? I understand if this is not the kind of thing that can be discussed openly in detail, but my curiousity is figuratively killing me! They...

discussion specific-user account-suspension

user302202

> Am just wondering Why

user302202

Are we okay with being 99% stupid?

3:23 AM

I guess we are all stupid... otherwise there's no mystery that human can't explain...

^ deja vu :/

1 hour later…

4:26 AM

Do we have a meta post on "requesting automatic tag suggestion to be enabled when asking a question"?

4:39 AM

GDPR, then Article 13, and now CCPA

Journeyman Geek

5:12 AM

@Bookends meh

I'm not fond of "How will $law affect $site" - simply cause of the sheer amount of armchair lawyering

1 hour later…

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

6:30 AM

!!/blacklist-website exclusivewebsite\.com

@SonictheWizardWerehog That pattern looks like it's already caught by Pattern-matching website in body and Pattern-matching website in answer; append -force if you really want to do that.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

!!/blacklist-website-force mostexclusivewebsite\.com

Journeyman Geek

→ 15 messages moved to Chimney

@SonictheWizardWerehog You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#2709 for you.

6:48 AM

@JourneymanGeek 120% agree

Journeyman Geek

Second time I'm saying something to that effect, but its a curious artifact of how SE's community works ;)

because... Tim can always block IP from EU ;p

Journeyman Geek

California is trickier

;)

@JourneymanGeek How will law affect site kthxbye

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ with something like arbitration - it directly affects the user

If there's a specific legal requirement - and you want it met, that's different

6:54 AM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it will affect the sales of armchair, predicted toward positive

Journeyman Geek

@MSOGA I think the user's profile sums it up

She's clearly unhappy :/

Following Maths' Meta, I failed to find any convincing evidences that made her suspended, unless they're already deleted, or it's about CRUDE

Journeyman Geek

@Bookends or said posts were deleted

morning

discussing suspensions publicly is always a fool's errand, as we usually only have 10-50% of the story depending

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch and even when someone has a little more information it may not be useful or possible to share

7:08 AM

Oh, yeah, I forgot abou that, the reason for the suspension is clear ;p

Journeyman Geek

@Bookends well, no one really needs to know, other than the suspended person and the mods/CMs

7:31 AM

Oh, marvelous.

It was okay to call out someone by their real name when they prefer not to disclose it but it's not OK to say it's your suspension

Also kinda unclear what kinda negative connotation they want us to infer from the words "paid staff"

@M.A.R.>_>

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Its not ok to call out someone by their real name when they prefer not to disclose it

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ the policy on discussion of suspensions is very clear. We're (in terms of the folks who have access to that information) are not going discuss a user's suspension in public unless they choose to

and thus, the answer is: become a mod :/

Journeyman Geek

@Bookends I'm a mod, and I can't really see the details of their suspension on math

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

You might find users who insist that all details of their suspension be disclosed publicly, in the hope that the community will think differently of it and rally for their unsuspension

Journeyman Geek

7:44 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog that rarely goes well. Sunlight is the best disinfectant but good mods tend to consider suspensions a last resort

I guess it's better for me to stop before accidentally disclosing something that should not leave from that place...

Journeyman Geek

You're going to have better luck going through the CMs

Everyone is a mod it seems

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch by design? ;p

no I mean everyone I hang out with anywhere

charcoal is practially blue, here is practically blue, even SOBotics has mods in it

Journeyman Geek

7:47 AM

Oh!

Well there's a lot of sites!

Charcoal, where diamonds are made. It means you are next!

Journeyman Geek

And mods are typically the most engaged folks - and they'd tend to hang out in places like that

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek So, if a user says either to mods, CMs, or on some external platform, that they're OK with mods discussing their own suspension, in response to someone else asking about their suspension, will mods do so?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog We could choose to

But we might not - if we feel its unhelpful

So, lets say, someone tweets us about a suspension - we'd probably ping a CM and see what's the best way to go

If someone pings me on my blog about it...

it can go into /dev/null

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek But can't a mod theoretically abuse it, by citing "private evidence" that doesn't exist?

Journeyman Geek

7:50 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog We could also accuse them of drowning kittens and kicking puppies, sure

then another mod escalates for a mod abuse... great...

stack exchange is relatively drama free when it comes to mod abuse

Journeyman Geek

Practically - in a site that runs well, mods act as a check for each other

we had mod abuse drama every day at minecraftforums (go figure)

also because some mods would really misuse the shadowban feature

Journeyman Geek

So if we felt an action was too harsh or out of line, or even if we wanted someone to take another look, we'd let the other mod know

Likewise the CMs act as another level of check for us - though that's uncommon

7:52 AM

thankfully SE doesn't do shadowbans

Journeyman Geek

a mod who suspends without a good reason is likely to come under scrutiny

Each site has its own mod-only chat rooms before escalating to TL/CM

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Theoretically a mod could refuse to disclose details about a suspension despite the user's consent, if they believe that doing so could get the community to start rallying for the user to be unsuspended.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog we could

But nothing stops the user from doing it themselves too (and misrepresenting us)

There is absolutely no reason we are compelled to respond to such a post

This site does not work on "technically a mod could"

Journeyman Geek

7:56 AM

technically a mod could stand on one leg and hit a pinyata ;p

reminded me of some meta posts where users protesting on deleted/frozen chat rooms, though they usually never ended well

Technically I could just skip work this day?

Technically there are a lot of rough edges that are unexplored because SE does a fair job at selecting reasonable people to mod to the point where you don't need to lawyer out every aspect of their conduct in hard rules

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Theoretically, they're practicing the technical sides

(I'm confused)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

7:58 AM

Unrelated: say that a user violates a certain room's rules and gets suspended from chat. But the chat suspension ends up proving to be moot because they happen to be a moderator on some site (e.g. by participating in a new private beta site and being nominated as a mod there). Is that cause for having the user de-modded?

As a chat mod they have access to private moderator rooms and can thus end up disrupting discussion.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog not necessarily

Technically, no.

Journeyman Geek

But this is a situation where we need a CM taking a look, and acting as a arbitrator

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Chat moderators can still chat despite a suspension.

Journeyman Geek

Moderators are supposed to set an example - so if a moderator is misbehaving or acting in a manner unbecoming of the role, well....

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

8:01 AM

Say that they're doing a swell job moderating the site they have the diamond on.

Journeyman Geek

Don't forget if the mechanics fail, that's when we have to have people handling the exceptions

@SonictheWizardWerehog either the 'local mods' talk, and let them know that's not ok, or a CM does

if there's a pattern of issues, then we'll have to figure out what's the best way to deal with it

@JourneymanGeek I meant that Hello guy from Math.SE, not you, drama bomb

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

That reminds me of something else: does being suspended or having been suspended in the past year affect one's ability to get hired as a Stack Exchange employee?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Still... it's bad manners to tell anyone anything something someone only told a select few people (or didn't even tell, but someone figured out anyways)

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ 'hello guy drama bomb', perhaps that's the next password I'll use

Journeyman Geek

8:03 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog No idea

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

If, during the hiring process, it's discovered that the user is suspended on some site, will that prevent them from getting the job?

Journeyman Geek

I've got a stirling record as a user and I keep getting rejected ;p

More practically - I don't think so

@JourneymanGeek You know... I came up with a theory. I now think someone in HR is afraid of dogs. You should change your profile picture before applying next time :P

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Then users who are suspended can get moderator rights by becoming an employee and obtaining staff moderator rights.

If they're getting hired they're probably integral enough to not abuse those rights. They do have a screening process.

Journeyman Geek

8:06 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog but they have shown other qualities during the interview process that shows they are potentially a good fit for the role.

These hypothetical things hurt my hypochondria...

Abusing those powers is a good way to lose your job pretty quickly.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek True if it's a CM position, but if it's, say, a dev position, then the interview will mostly be based on dev prowess.

Journeyman Geek

Actually I suspect up until you start getting interviews with people on the ground - it shouldn't matter

So here's an interesting thing about being a MSE mod

In theory, of an employee misbehaves, we're supposed to act as a check to that.

THANKFULLY we've not have had to find out how that works yet

yeah, yeah, because they will DROP TABLE Comments... and everyone's happy!

Journeyman Geek

8:08 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog so more or less, if you're interested in working for SO... just apply and see what happens ;p

actually as far as QA devs and SRE goes - having a good grasp of dealing with the meta mob (tm) is useful

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

But the question is, if your interview goes well, and the company offers you, but then they discover that you are suspended somewhere, would SE pull out?

In theory, one could apply for a job at SE instead of nominating in a mod election

There's probably no way for us to answer that and it highly depends on context.

@SonictheWizardWerehog yeah, in 4th interview round

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog its significantly easier to become a mod than working for SO I suspect

there's a lot more mods than devs, SREs and CMs

"work at SE" != "just become a mod everywhere"

In any position, including CMs.

Journeyman Geek

8:12 AM

@Mithrandir actually CMs do actually need global moddy powers

(for the same reasons that CMs give up being mods. SREs may not. Not sure about devs)

@SonictheWizardWerehog I wonder where you're going with these hypothethicals

Journeyman Geek

I think he wants to apply for a job ;p

Yes; I'm saying their duties aren't the same as just being mods everywhere.

SE isn't some ridig system that you can game to the detriment of its mission. It's staffed by discerning people all the way down, the chance to pull a fast one on the mod mechanics is nearing zero

The answer to any corner case is most likely going to be "what makes most sense, as decided by sensible individuals"

Journeyman Geek

(and seriously - if you think something is a good fit, give it a shot)

8:16 AM

Hell, even being banned for 20 years doesn't stop you from getting it overturned and then becoming a mod on multiple sites given enough reflection and engagement

Journeyman Geek

yup

Journeyman Geek

8:51 AM

And that;s something I strongly believe in - people can have bad days, weeks or even longer...

But if they're actually making a real effort to change - I'm ok with them being given a chance to do what they can anywhere

9:10 AM

@JourneymanGeek Oh man tell me about it. These post-transplant drugs make you sweat like hell and it was really hard to change in the beginning

Journeyman Geek

0_0

o_o

And God, hospital clothes suck big time

Journeyman Geek

I guess

open at the back?

What?

'sweat like hell' is undisturbingly scary...

9:13 AM

Oh, no that's just the surgery "gowns"

The normal clothes are like plastic bags shaped like legit clothes

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Too much plastic. Too too much

o_=

O_p

That's Nick Fury crying

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ merge with polymers please...

10:06 AM

Okay... time to go back to not reading the news ever. I preferred it that way.

10:24 AM

News is bad today :(

10:34 AM

Shooting in Christchurch, rockets in Tel Aviv...

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/15467516/americanairlines?tab=accounts

(received a local site suspension on Stack Overflow)

@Mithrandir The rockets didn't even make the news here :(

10:53 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog gone

Journeyman Geek

11:16 AM

@Mithrandir rockets in Tel Aviv are sadly common :/

@JourneymanGeek There haven't been rockets in central Israel since 2014. They're usually somewhere in my area or down in the South.

Journeyman Geek

ah

hm :/

Terrorism of any sort sucks :/

No one really wins, people die, and nothing ever really changes

Things only change for the worse.

In other news... apparently the tear in my retina either healed itself or hasn't yet fully opened; they're not entirely sure which.

Journeyman Geek

It could be a quantum tear

The doctor thinks it's because of the high level of myopia. My mother thinks it's retinopathy of prematurity.My grandmother things it's genetic.

11:24 AM

Only one of them has a degree in medical stuff, right? :P

I'm just like "whatever; as long I don't have to do that laser surgery I'm fine".

Journeyman Geek

pew pew pew

11:36 AM

shoop da woop

user302202

12:23 PM

> There's something very broken with our UI, because this question comes up quite a bit. I mean a lot. Waaaay more often than it should. meta.stackexchange.com/a/325248

user302202

Programming questions come up on meta a lot, way more often than they should.

user302202

Does not necessarily mean the UI is broken. Maybe some people are like that.

user302202

See also: questions in answers, all the time.

I think Shog was being facetious here

user302202

More often on Travel and Expats than on other sites, though. Despite them having the same UI.

12:26 PM

Higher incidence of low-English-skill visitors?

user302202

Higher involvement with phpbb travel forums is my guess.

Hello sir. I bad at english. Can I get job as helpdesk guy?

Journeyman Geek

It wasn't really a programming question though

@JohnDvorak ._.

I have actually seen that. Somebody was actually asking "Can I get a job as a helpdesk agent even though I'm bad at English?".

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Been removing two instances of the learning tag per day, and it's now down to two questions...should I finish the job now or wait?

Journeyman Geek

12:30 PM

FINISH IT!

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Well, there were four uses just earlier, and I removed two just now

While cleaning it, I also discovered the tag students...is it too broad? Should I file a burninate request and begin cleaning it as well?

delv-pls 2k+ meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/63521

@JourneymanGeek Done. Would you mind slapping a status-completed on the request?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog the question in the queue - I left alone intentionally

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

The answer you mean?

Journeyman Geek

yup

So... it actually demonstrates a potential bug or issue

its just painfully annoying

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Shog's recommendation is that answers that anyone considers annoying or obnoxious should be deleted. But I figured you knew what you were doing, so rather than pinging you I asked the community to delete-vote it instead.

Journeyman Geek

12:45 PM

@SonictheWizardWerehog It is the sandbox

All manner of... strangeness happens there

The point of the sandbox is to test things

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

If the community decides to give it Looks OK reviews, I won't mind. The point of the above link posted there is just so people review it (either way)

Journeyman Geek

sure but if people see it in its current form, they will likely vote to delete

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Only two Looks OK reviews are required compared to six votes for deletion

@JourneymanGeek If you believe so, feel free to modify that message to say "review-pls".

Is there a benefit of not purging the sandbox periodically?

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak good question!

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

12:47 PM

@JohnDvorak That was the case for years until recently

So we have a case study

Journeyman Geek

There's a mechanism for it but I don't think mods can do it

I vote purge. Auto-purge, even.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek Merge the question with the archive, then manually unlock it.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog eww merging

Something I would rather avoid

Roomba criterion: if it's in the sandbox, and older than one day, delete with impunity.

Journeyman Geek

12:48 PM

I think I'll check with the CMs ;)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Merging transfers the answers to the target, then manually unlocking and clearing the merge history will allow it to be used again

Journeyman Geek

Merging is also... an utter pain if you get wrong

You might know how it works, but you don't know how it works.

Can't we just try it, and then ask a CM to clean up the mess? Like we did with that tag synonym? :P

if you do that they might promote green parrots again

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Can mods clear merge history even, like migration history?

Journeyman Geek

1:00 PM

ugh no

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Well, it waits to see what happens if a merged post is manually unlocked, if a notice is shown...

Get a CM on standby and test it

@Tinkeringbell What synonym?

@SonictheWizardWerehog The one you asked a question about which I commented on

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Ah, the one about duplicates

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog considering this is CM driven before, it makes sense, as far as I am concerned to check first before breaking things ;)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Yeah, that's what I meant by getting a CM on standby (to make sure they are available to immediately fix things once you perform the test, if need be)

1:05 PM

and here I thought you were aspiring to be marley journey

Our grant application contains one of those little greeting card speakers that plays spaceship noises when you open it.

Journeyman Geek

Marley and me marley?

yea

The reference was a longshot, but you got it :P

I remember marley as a somewhat chaotic dog :p

Journeyman Geek

he was

never saw the show tbh, but I heard about it secondhand and heard one of the songs

was it not a good reference to make in irony?

Journeyman Geek

1:14 PM

Oh

I read the book

I skimmed over the promotional brochure thingy

It's g3rv4!

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES

Hide the evidence!

Journeyman Geek

eats the evidence

2

1:16 PM

Nooo! That's my homework!

Hey! That was my homework, not the evidence!

Heh :D

:D

Journeyman Geek

Its the evidence of your homework burp

No i'm serious teach my dog ate the homework :(

2

still gets an F

1:19 PM

You have a dog?!

No, but I used that excuse several times

MEE the setup wizard

successfully?

Never worked here... I think my best excuse was 'I'm on my period' whenever I didn't feel like participating in gym class. That always worked :D

In fact, I once took cat excrement from our cat and rubbed it on a piece of random writing and then presented it to the teacher as "The cat took a dump on it". The pungent odor precluded future investigations

that's... dedication

1:22 PM

The dog excuse mostly didn't work

the ol' "the file got corrupted" method for handing in assignments did though

@Magisch Oh... or sending in a docx when you knew full well the teachers could only open doc :P

MEE the setup wizard

dogx?

take a random file of plausible length, change title and first sentences to something resembling your assignment, then open it in editor and add some random stuff. Now it won't open and you have plausible deniability to hand the actual project in the next time you see the teacher instead.

That was more of a method of stalling than not having to do it all though..

Or when your school uses shitty hand-in software crash their webserver at due time

1:25 PM

I wasn't that tech savvy :P

me neither but there was a known bug that if you clicked a certain button rapidly the whole software would die

@Magisch Oooh. And I did know about autoclickers at that time XD

Heh, now I imagine a clicker game that will crash if it's clicked too fast...

Did anyone ever play cookie clicker?

a little

prefer clicker heroes, and now clicker heroes 2

1:33 PM

I used to go nuts on that game, just to get ahead of a friend at school. I found some kind of program that would click twice every millisecond, and then leave the laptop running for the night just to get ahead of her XD

Not cookie clicker, but the Steam's Summer Sales one... Monster Game

I spent over 800 hours having clicker heroes open

2 got rid of in-game purchases

but it's of course an entirely different game

I have that too, but only played it sporadically since

I want to wait until all the wipes are over

same

i spent a good bit at initial release, then again ~ 3 months ago

it's in a pretty good state

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

1:37 PM

@Tinkeringbell Heh, Microsoft pulled the download for the Office Compatibility Pack (which allows 2007+ format files to be opened in 2003 programs) in April 2018. I managed to download a copy before that; if anyone needs it, feel free to message me...

Plagiarizing code is also easy (not that I've done it): just change variable names, add/remove comments, change if statements to switch, for loops to while, etc.

Is this anyone else's relationship with their dog? https://twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/1106548206203215873

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on March 15, 2019 at 1:32 PM

Journeyman Geek

sounds about right

1 hour later…

2:51 PM

@Magisch Is that fun?

3:06 PM

@Tinkeringbell This stuff rarely makes the news anywhere besides here. For instance:

A terrorist from Gaza breached Israel’s border fence carrying an IED and a knife. Our troops stopped him before he could reach families living minutes away. This is why our soldiers are stationed along the Gaza border, to defend those families.

Tweeted by IDF on March 14, 2019 at 7:03 PM

:(

3:23 PM

@Tinkeringbell The fraction of the time I had it open I was playing it, yeah

I suppose I actually played about 20 of those hours

3:37 PM

I just thought of a genius solution to end Stack Overflow's quality problems.

Step 1: Question ban everybody.

Step 2: Use stackroboflow.com to generate questions at a manageable rate.

Step 3: Because we don't have to worry about angering OP and the quantity of questions can be greatly diminished, we have the time to be thorough with each question and edit it into something useful.

... nah.

4:09 PM

@bjb568 disappointed it doesn't mention devdoodle ...

4:30 PM

@bjb568 the site design... might be problematic :/

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

5:03 PM

@SupaMegaDuckyMomodaWaffle You're the exact opposite of me?

Pikachu the Purple Wizard

5:19 PM

Of course, @Sonic. First math problem I ever learned: "Pikachu != Sonic".

That Stack Roboflow thing is so cool

Pikachu the Purple Wizard

Wow... that's very... unusual.

I wanna see someone try to answer the questions now

I don't think I'll ever understand this Chat lolololol. Looks like there's more to this community than simple Q&A

Pikachu the Purple Wizard

The Q&A part is the main part of the site. Chat is just kinda off to the side.

Huh, new faces

Still avatarless for me, but anyway

5:44 PM

-4

Q: Do any world leaders have access to a nuclear "red button"?

In this article North Korean dictator Kim Jon Un claims (according to NBC) that: "The entire mainland of the U.S. is within the range of our nuclear weapons and the nuclear button is always on the desk of my office". Donald Trump facetiously responded with a tweet saying: North Korea...

politics donald-trump security north-korea

5:55 PM

I also have this red button on my desk...

6:23 PM

@Eleeza This here is a tavern

6:35 PM

4

A: Goodbye and thank you, Jaydles!

It's real, not all heroes wear cape, some wear a smile to serve the community. I just read this today and left me in awe to know that someone out there really cared this much for the other devs. On behalf of students, starting professionals and hobbyist. Thank you for everything. Best of luck b...

Well yeah, Mr. Incredible, for one

Wonder woman doesn't wear capes either

And neither do . . . hmm . . . all of the existing MCU characters

I love ruining someone else's dramatic moments

Don't worry about it because your comments no longer show up.

7:20 PM

@Rob No, I manually had to go to metasmoke to delete the comment

8:09 PM

22

Q: Pressing "tab" in log-in form switches to "Forgot password?"

The login form used to have an intuitive behaviour up to a few days ago: pressing the tab key would switch from the email field to the password field, just like pretty much any such login form under the sun. For some reason it was changed recently and pressing the tab key from the email field swi...

One tab too many?

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Voting on the 2019 Stack Overflow moderator election is underway!

Pfft, you have heavy caching

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ No, I just posted it a little late

Yeah, caching

1 hour later…

9:33 PM

What is the Pastafarian equivalent of Halal?

No tomatoes?

🍅

user302202

10:08 PM

BmA: 13766, J-FF 10567. Candidates with 10K+ score in primary round have 100% record of getting elected.

user302202

Rock & Roll HoF: totally worth the price of admission.

user302202

Prince, Tom Petty, Steve Winwood, Jeff Lynne and others -- "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"

Hey guys. First time using SO chat. Is this the right room to ask for rules about posting questions on SO (not meta)?

Not really, but it's pretty boring here and happy hour hasn't started yet so go ahead

Oh, this is the first late happy hour of the year for me.

10:22 PM

@Shog9 Basically i just wanted to know if SO is the right place to ask questions related to software that might be coupled to a specific version of it

My question is about Kubernetes tooling to be precise and i can't figure out whether it's a but on a package i'm trying to install or if i'm missing something. I asked on freenode irc but no response there whithin an hour

s/but/bug

And now as a good SO citizen i don't want to clutter it with questions that are against the rules (and potentially loose rep :D)

@Anticom well, first question is: what are you using Kubernetes for?

Specifically: are you setting up your dev machine, or a test / production environment?

@Shog9 currently not in production. But i want to familiarize myself with it by fiddling arround with it using minikube so i can make an educated decision

I'm trying to install stable/sentry using helm but if i put the same values i provide using --set using a yaml file the hooks/jobs don't get deployed and don't run

and now i'm trying to figure out whether there's something to be aware of when loading values using -f flag or if this is some sort of a but in the chart.

probably more appropriate on Server Fault then, although you'd likely get away with asking on SO if you're very clear about what you're doing

so generally speaking it's okay to ask a question where the answer might end up being something along the lines of "it's a bug in version x.y"

sure

I mean... That's always possible

It's usually not very likely, but... one of the most popular questions on SO last week was something about apple breaking their provisioning system and locking everyone out

10:32 PM

especially since spectre/meltdown i guess =D

alright thanks for the input, will head over to server fault then

There's an old joke / truism about programming questions. Everyone thinks they've found a compiler bug sooner or later - some trivial bit of code just doesn't do what it should. And compilers are software, written by humans - surely they do have bugs!

But it's never a compiler bug.

depends on whether you'd define a human as a compiler from thought to source code or not i suppose

or spec to source code etc.

> Now, which seems more likely to you?

Weird, inexplicable compiler bug that nobody has ever seen before
or

Programmer fucked up

-- blog.plover.com/prog/compiler-error.html

The thing is, there are compiler bugs, even compiler bugs that have been documented on Stack Overflow. And of course there are lots of library / tooling bugs asked about and documented on SO.

But... You should always ask your question with the implicit assumption that it's not a bug, because if you can't find the behavior documented anywhere and the software has more than a few dozen users... Chances are you're just using it wrong somehow, and as soon as you say "it must be a bug" someone's gonna come crawling out of the woodwork to set you straight on that. OTOH, if it actually is a bug... Well, now the next person to encounter it won't have their search come up empty.

It's a matter of psychology. Especially new programmers seem to have a hard time accepting that it's their fault if code is buggy and not the compiler / interpreter / runtime.

yep

10:39 PM

it's the same thing as overcomplicating a bug hunt

and in the end you forgot a semicolon etc.

still happens to me from time to time

ah, those days when you spend all afternoon hunting for a bug, and do indeed find several and fix them along the way but still have the erroneous behavior you started with... And it turns out you mistyped a name somewhere.

or you had variable shadowing, or where missing this keyword or you tried adding two numbers but it turned out the first one was a string in javascript... so many simple options to fail with :)

What is this happy hour about?

after a hard week of being sad, it's nice to take an hour and relax

...Then, back on your heads

10:54 PM

it's midnight arround here ._.

High time for a drink then!

user image

:+1:

StackExchange content being licensed CC-BY-SA 3.0, and there being no officially recognized compatible licenses, that means that if I want to use code posted on SE in my project then my project must be licensed exactly CC-BY-SA 3.0?

How can a platform decide about the license of the content that I as a user post anyway? Asked myself that question a couple of times now. After all it's my own interlectual property

11:12 PM

@Sparr Correct, if you're following the license strictly.

@Anticom you grant them license to redistribute under that license by posting. it's not only in the ToS, it's linked at the bottom of every page on the site

@Sparr okay but let's say i posted a snipped from my own code that is licensed using another license that would only mean that others could use that snippet under CC-BY_SA 3.0 however that wouldn't affect my own code base would it?

btw still a big fan of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL is also a good one

@Anticom Correct. In that case, someone else could use the code you posted under either license - CC-BY-SA or the license you originally put on it.

okay get it

User content on SE is available at minimum under BY-SA - that doesn't preclude it from also being made available under other licenses. I license all the code I post here under MIT as well.

11:21 PM

how do you indicate that?

Gotta run, later guys o/

@Sparr It's in my profile. Easiest way to do it without having to add a note on every post I write

thanks for the insights. I'll probably reimplement what I need, rather than CC license my code

You can always use the answers you find as inspiration, rather than directly copying the code

or I can spend so long discussing it that I discover a solution in a library I'm already using :)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

11:38 PM

@Anticom Have you heard of the Unlicense by any chance?

I've used CC0 and Unlicense before. I think I'm gonna GPL something, to take a different approach

Beware in general of funny/joke licenses like the WTFPL or any of these.

Usually, pick something from choosealicense.com

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 so... Last Tuesday?

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