Tavern on the Meta - 2019-12-25

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3:11 AM

@JourneymanGeek There's a CV OT on the Announcement, should it be cleared?

Journeyman Geek

@Rob amusingly enough, there's no way to clear closevotes

Its kinda tempting to lock it again

K, I voted Leave Open. Can you / Should you try the queue?

One vote from you should be binding ...

Journeyman Geek

3:26 AM

Oh lets give it a shot

Nope, not really much good

Hmmm. It's for "does not appear to seek input and discussion", though there is the discussion tag (and announcement). Need a new mandatory for just an announcement (if that's the protester's claim).

Odd your vote wasn't a decider.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

4:14 AM

I've seen mods on various sites clear delete votes

Journeyman Geek

Its a close vote

@Rob I'd consider it a protest closevote, and as a solitary vote, meh.

@JourneymanGeek Somewhere (the -2K Announcement?) there's a comment from a Mod/CM "quit trying to close this ...". --- Closing / Deleting a Company Announcement is R/A: "... abuse of the community or system ...".

They (we) don't have to like it, but people need to be able to access the information (without wondering if closed means it no longer applies - if they are new and don't know better). --- But I accept your decision, I've reported this, case closed.

Journeyman Geek

4:29 AM

@Rob Despite popular belief, there's very few cases where I want to suspend someone, and a singular closevote is... meh

Unless OP was up to other skullduggery and we needed to Capone them :D

Also quite frankly that thread probably has mods checking it every so often so... its likely to not get closed, I hope

Limahl - Never Ending Story (Official Music Video)

Limahl-rolled

3 hours later…

7:25 AM

→ 43 messages moved to Chimney

1 hour later…

Shadow The Burning Wizard

8:30 AM

@M.A.R. that

@Mithrandir24601 because you know anything that @Mith knows! :D

@JourneymanGeek yes there is. Close and reopen.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheBurningWizard meh, if it gets closed, we can reopen

Shadow The Burning Wizard

But only after 6-8 minutes/hours/days when someone notice, flag, etc.

Journeyman Geek

That question/answer's active and busy enough to keep an eyes

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Until then, it will stay closed.

@JourneymanGeek 99% of the people reading it will be happy to see it closed, so they won't try to reopen or flag.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheBurningWizard I'm doubtful over those statistics.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

8:34 AM

I'm not. Maybe 99.9% then.

:D

Let's see the vote split...

126/652

hmm.... well maybe you're right this time. :/

about 20% agree with this.

Journeyman Geek

so total number of votes is about 778

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Holidays now, so thousands more will be cast in the next 6-8 weeks though.

Journeyman Geek

83% downvotes

Shadow The Burning Wizard

(if it will stay featured)

Journeyman Geek

but that dosen't reflect how many people want it closed

Only a certain dissatisfaction with the eventual resolution, and that's entirely between Monica and SO IMO

Shadow The Burning Wizard

8:36 AM

I'd say downvote means people won't mind seeing it closed/nuked.

Journeyman Geek

naw

Shadow The Burning Wizard

meh

Time for....

!!/coffee Tink

@ShadowTheBurningWizard brews a cup of Cappuccino for @Tink

Journeyman Geek

It could mean it didn't go far enough (like reinstatement)

Shadow The Burning Wizard

stealing coffee from parrot

Journeyman Geek

8:38 AM

At least a few might have felt it wasn't a rollback of everything they didn't like.

Statistics can sometimes mislead without context.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@JourneymanGeek for me it means I don't like the way it's phrased and the fact it was forced out by lawyers rather than being authentic.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheBurningWizard but that dosen't mean it dosen't belong on meta no?

Today has been very quiet, tomorrow too most likely; then the Boxing Day liner-uppers ... So it won't be busy for a few more days, then things will start to take off again. --- Also, I think that the regurgitator was stuck, because I was getting no votes all day and then received a pile all within a short period of time.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@JourneymanGeek it belongs, I didn't and won't vote to close. But I won't mind seeing it closed and won't try to reopen.

@Rob what.... are... you talking about? lol

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheBurningWizard I think its important it stays -as what comes close to "What was said wasn't exactly how it should have been" as we will get

8:41 AM

Yes, lol

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@Rob you'll end up taking @Hitodama's place. ;)

Or you @david's

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@JourneymanGeek but it won't stay, it will be deleted by OP at some point anyway.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheBurningWizard hm.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

(in the next update, likely)

Journeyman Geek

8:42 AM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard the older posts could be seen as a mistake.

I get the idea that there's going to be no more updates.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

And this one isn't??

@ShadowTheBurningWizard that is a very very wild guess

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@user1306322 not guess... just reflecting personal opinion. :)

I think he shares his account, or someone uses it when he's out. Often great things to say othertimes not so much.

downvotes mean sooooo many different things in so many different cases it's basically useless to try and guess

@ShadowTheBurningWizard alright, but you didn't phrase it as such, so I read it as a generalization :p

Shadow The Burning Wizard

8:44 AM

@Rob who? David A? Don't even know who it is....

DVs is for "unsatisfactory" the CV is probably hatting.

are there hats for close-voting?

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@user1306322 I do it often.... rule of thumb: add "in my opinion" before anything I say. :P

Journeyman Geek

Don't think so

I think I'd have gotten them already

Shadow The Burning Wizard

!!/hats

8:45 AM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard No such command 'hats'.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

...

another bot would have said they hate hats...

Could be any of a half dozen people really, some people know they share their account; others perhaps not. Even we get the "Evil Twin" story sometimes, or WiFi hacked.

hats are like a bot in some ways, so bot rivalry is not unexpected

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Hat bot!

8:48 AM

is there any update on post reactions? are they coming to all posts? what set of reactions?

Shadow The Burning Wizard

user image

that reminded me of Don't Starve

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@user1306322 likely same as they already put in Teams, if the feedback will be positive.

the 4 useless ones?

then I feel like it's been set up for failure if that's the case

@user1306322 Yes, the 180° hat.

Shadow The Burning Wizard

8:51 AM

user image

Those ^

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 there'll likely be a userscript to remove it :D

no need for a userscript this is just a matter of css

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Custom style sheet

Journeyman Geek

USERSCRIPT ALL. THE. THINGS!

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Think Chrome disabled it, no?

8:53 AM

who uses chrome anyways

Journeyman Geek

I don't run chrome. :D

Shadow The Burning Wizard

me

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 everyone

Even people who don't

Shadow The Burning Wizard

FF was always slower for me

well that certainly contradicts what you just said :p (twice even)

Journeyman Geek

8:53 AM

@user1306322 I run vivaldi... which is a chrome fork.

That cancels it out.

the slower one was the one with ads, and since FF has a working adblock (this post was made by ublock origin gang), it's faster

Journeyman Geek

I also run falkon... which... uses the chrome core.

Edge? Chrome fork soon

Opera? ... you guessed it....

(which is a pity - presto was a nice engine)

Opera also has some of that juicy controversial Chinese ownership

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Why Facebook don't make their own browser? ;)

8:55 AM

I think they already have all the Chrome users

@ShadowTheBurningWizard I don't think it makes sense to try and gauge community desire for a feature by measuring the desire of a limited subset of Teams only

propose it on public meta and see

I'm pretty sure among the first posts there will be a dozen suggesting other reactions than these 4 placeholder ones

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 that's actually how its never worked :D

that sounds concerning

well then has anyone made a suggestion to use some other, more useful reactions on Teams yet?

Shadow The Burning Wizard

@user1306322 don't think Teams have Meta

Or do they?

I suppose I have no idea how this network works behind the scenes

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 In the old days - it was mostly Jeff deciding

The difference is/was how connected folks were to the users

Shadow The Burning Wizard

9:02 AM

-11

Q: Non-anonymous "Thanks" or "Like" button

Today, upvoting is anonymous; the recipient knows they were upvoted, but they don't know who upvoted them, so it's not a public personal gesture. The only way to let someone know who likes your answer is to comment, often by saying "Thanks!" which adds nothing to the discussion. There should be ...

feature-request status-declined thanks

Nice answer by Jeff

Journeyman Geek

For initial specing out- its internal. I've done one survey (on some mod tools) and skipped one (on teams - I skipped that cause it was at a low point for me and the community) - both before the loop.

For making a decision, maybe focus groups work. For refinement in the field, I'm still a fan of meta

I just have a feeling that showcasing this new proposal with these 4 specific mostly useless reactions is akin to setting it up for failure, deliberately or not, I feel like I have to comment on that and propose to change these for the initial discussion already

└། ๑ _ ๑ །┘

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Are those horns?

nah it's the mario pipe top

Journeyman Geek

9:08 AM

@user1306322 and... that's part of development.

djsmiley2k in darkness

feed the pipe

because I sense that the tone is supposed to be something nice, I'd suggest only the positive reactions for now, like "high quality post", "strongly agree", "well phrased", "important announcement"/"deserves attention"

The Ankole-Watusi is a modern American breed of domestic cattle. It derives from the Ankole group of Sanga cattle breeds of central Africa. It is characterized by very large horns. == History == The Ankole-Watusi derives from cattle of Ankole type imported to Germany as zoo specimens in the early twentieth century. From Germany, these spread to other European zoos. Some were imported to the United States, and in 1960 a herd was started in New York State by cross-breeding some of them with an unrelated Canadian bull.:110 A breed society, the Ankole Watusi International Registry, was set up in 1983...

Journeyman Geek

And for something like this how people use, and not use them are important bits of data

just make it actual common reactions that people tend to comment with

idk what "red semibold one hundred twice underlined" means

9:10 AM

All the reactions have to be positive and friendly, so some possible reactions won't be included.

the two hands clapping together is also good for Anime.SE for alchemist transmutation spell casting I suppose >.>

@Rob yea I feel like this reduces their maximum potential, like in cases where you know a post is worthy of a downvote but you can't quite put it into a comment and so just downvote and go, while the poster might be left confused, but if there was a quick reaction like "badly formatted" or "probably a duplicate" that might clear things up with the poster and be useful. I don't see this as negative personally. It feels better than to be left in the blind.

basically instead of "negative reactions" think (and actually provide) "valid criticism" but without specifics

for specifics, you can write up a comment, but for when you don't want to / don't know how/ etc, you can use a quick one-click reaction

Like a "back to the drawing board" reaction, or magnifying glass (take another closer look), etc.

well, maybe a miniature manual pictogram :p

not the letters "RTFM" but something a bit less obscene

"you can easily find the answer in the documentation for this" - would be the message you want to convey

I think that if such reactions which mean specific things about how to improve content or which note how exactly the content is already good, were a thing, we would see an increase in quality

and positive outlook on the site in general

How about: 𓃒

Bull

it might feel like it turns the site into a bit of a kindergarten with all the colorful "friendly" icons but it just might be the most efficient solution to the SO problems which canned comments couldn't solve and the perception of the rules being convoluted and general lack of clarity on how to improve a bad post

@Rob as funny as a poop emoji reaction may be, I don't think vague and unclear reaction pictograms are useful precisely because it's unclear what they mean or how they can be interpreted as constructive criticism (positive or negative)

as one of the core goals of the Q&A is to minimize noise, I think such reactions have no place

or should be brought to their clearest analogies

like Skeptics might enjoy a "red herring" reaction, as I see it used often in the comments, idk

some cartoon or game questions about "why did this character suddenly fly all the way to the moon" could be reacted to with "anime physics"

9:26 AM

It needs the complicated multi-point rating:

(because some questions just don't have a scientific explanation and it's only something done for fun by creators of the fictional world, like scoobydoo falling physics or loony tunes / ren and stimpy wacky face warping)

user image

Replacing each of those categories with something appropriate for Q&As.

Syngergy, Quantum, Logistics :p

Journeyman Geek

But that adds complexity :D

Too much

A second set of tags for what needs fixing, and rely on many upvotes to indicate that it's pretty much fixed.

9:33 AM

probably show a small time graph of vote history dynamics to see if the votes have been increasing for or against a specific reaction, like at first many people agreed a post was low quality but lately (after it was improved) found this reaction doesn't reflect the new reality :p

That allows exactness, expansion, easy implementation (using existing code), Review, blocking, everything tags offer us for "subject categorization" but applied to "fault finding" (or "lack of faults found, for 60 days) - status-complete).

announcements are one thing, they rarely change, but general posts are supposed to change, and so are the reactions to them

votes change already and we don't get to see the vote change dynamics, only the total and the breakdown of upvotes and downvotes if you have enough rep

GTG for an hour, thx for the chat.

grey to grey for an hour! that is a horrific display panel!

RTX GPU WTF BBQ :p

to summarize regarding reactions: I think they need to be specific and clear and be useful as valid criticism and be able to be voted against for when problems with the post are fixed (or in case the post gets worse through bad edits)

and there's gotta be a way to view the reaction vote history or a visual graph to gauge what the public reaction was over time, kinda like Steam Reviews have, because games also can get better or worse through time

1 hour later…

djsmiley2k in darkness

10:47 AM

hmmmm smallest child now has a nerf gun

11:11 AM

@djsmiley2kindarkness I think @M.A.R. mentioned target practice yesterday, but if I understood correctly the kid is supposed to be the target :P

Shadow The Burning Wizard

11:42 AM

@djsmiley2kindarkness smallest means 1 year old?

Shadow The Burning Wizard

12:16 PM

🐱‍🚀

djsmiley2k in darkness

@ShadowTheBurningWizard 3 yr old

Shadow The Burning Wizard

Nice

My son got nerf gun for his 5th birthday

But it just sits unused almost ever since.

The 2.5 y/o daughter sometimes takes it and try to shoot.

1:01 PM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard thine

djsmiley2k in darkness

well we got him a knock off large gun, and then one of the small nerf pistols as well

user image

djsmiley2k in darkness

i'm amazed at how powerful the pistol is.

-22

Q: "Nico-nico-nii~♡" is NOT ALLOWED on Stack Exchange

I just raised a moderator flag and it was dismissed as declined in a short while. It says "flags should only be used to make mods aware of content that requires their intervention." Well, there are five different flag decline reasons on this site: Declined comment/recommend closure flag: Decl...

support flags declined-flags

... why is this even — E_net4 the safe downvoter 3 hours ago

Why is this even indeed

djsmiley2k in darkness

I can't even answer, because of the words I'd use aren't allowed to describe people who shouldn't be allowed.

1:23 PM

Chinese Food On Christmas (HD)

have a chuckle

1:36 PM

Check out Jim Shine at the bottom. He should keep that avatar past New Year.

I have some how made it through this year without a hat

woo!

2:13 PM

"The parisitism might be mediated by a fungus!" exclaimed the biologist who was trying to ruin Christmas again.

1 hour later…

Shadow The Burning Wizard

3:23 PM

@M.A.R. Nico Nico ♥

2 hours later…

5:13 PM

@Feeds it's true!

user image

1 hour later…

6:28 PM

@M.A.R. Now that we exhausted all questions about what Einstein said, let's move on to things he certainly didn't say ....

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@rene Can you please add meta.stackexchange.com/questions/36148/… to the duplicate list of meta.stackexchange.com/questions/341070/…? While that question is itself closed as a duplicate of your original target, I feel its answers better address the latter question.

done

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Thanks!

djsmiley2k in darkness

6:54 PM

Hmmm. As per every year. I'm done

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Meaning?

djsmiley2k in darkness

@rene "By the power of greyskull! I have the power!"

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog with Christmas

fine with me

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