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Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
11:00 AM
we literally do it cause we like the place and the people
nothing else
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
@Magisch That might be where this is headed; consider it this way - Monica is giving them every chance to make it right and they're not taking them
 
Magisch
Magisch
granted, I'm not emotionally invested in my employer, so I wouldn't blink twice before burning them with a magnifying glass if they started it, so eh
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
eventually, Monica is gonna go "cy@ in court"
 
user194636
that aside, employment and libel law is very different in the US
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
and she'll have literal months of proof that SE didn't care
@JourneymanGeek Being volunteers !== being able to be treated like garbage
most companies that scale up too quickly forget this
 
rene
rene
11:00 AM
@SébastienRenauld language please
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@SébastienRenauld it is not, sure
 
user194636
Captain America in the house!
 
Magisch
Magisch
truth be, idk what I would do if SE did this to me
Maybe cry in a corner and change my name?
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
Keep pressuring them to make things right, and if they don't, eventually slam-dunk them in court for wrongful dismissal?
 
David A
David A
They can ban anyone without legal consequences. The public statements might be a different issue.
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
11:02 AM
@DavidA This was not a ban, though. This was a termination of contract
 
Magisch
Magisch
none of us here are lawyers, so we probably shouldn't speculate extensively on causes of action
 
user194636
> https://meta.stackexchange.com/legal/moderator-agreement
Stack Exchange Inc. reserves the right to terminate my privileges as a moderator at any time without warning.
 
Magisch
Magisch
anyways, this leaves a very sour taste. I hope they learned from this and this will never be repeated, even if they can't publicly admit fault
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch that's something we are very keen on
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
IANAL but didn't they specifically state Monica was guilty of something that led to the dismissal?
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:05 AM
@SébastienRenauld "repeated violations of the code of conduct despite multiple warnings from CM's to stop"
paraphrased, didn't dig up the actual quote
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
Actual quotes: "refused to abide by our Code of Conduct (CoC) after being asked to change their behavior multiple times", "would not use stated pronouns, which violates our current CoC."
 
StephanS
StephanS
@Magisch I'm a paralegal, I could probably take a crack at it
 
Andras Deak
Andras Deak
our previous current CoC
 
djsmiley2k
djsmiley2k
@OrangeDog How do you prove a negative tho :/
 
202324
202324
@SébastienRenauld mmh?
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
11:12 AM
@StephanS can you take a crack at the license change as well?
 
djsmiley2k
djsmiley2k
The only way would be to prove they used some non-valid pronoun instead.
 
StephanS
StephanS
@OrangeDog nope I'm not touching that
 
djsmiley2k
djsmiley2k
So, if she did so, show us :S
I'#mma stop.
 
user194636
@djsmiley2k or literally said, "I will not use that pronoun".
 
Magisch
Magisch
I know just enough about the law to know that I don't know anything
 
user194636
11:14 AM
@Magisch Can you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt though?
 
Magisch
Magisch
> "On Friday, we revoked privileges for one Stack Exchange moderator when they refused to abide by our Code of Conduct (CoC) after being asked to change their behavior multiple times. The disagreement stemmed from an interpretation of a certain policy, but our CoC is not up for debate."
Thats the statement provided to the press
Not a lot of room to backtrack
 
StephanS
StephanS
@Magisch she doesn't have a great case pertaining to breach of contract, and for libel, she'll have to show that those statements had monetary damages
yeah, what happened was bad, but legally speaking there isn't really anything here
 
202324
202324
upvotes answer.
 
Magisch
Magisch
I'll take your word for it
 
user194636
@Magisch Well, SE could say that communication was imperfect at the time, and after review & clarification, there was no breach of the CoC that was not capable of remedy.
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:18 AM
@PaulWhite I don't see that, but sure.
 
user194636
It seems to me Monica would also need to shift position somewhat.
 
user194636
But stranger things have happened.
 
user194636
Just recently, in fact.
 
Andras Deak
Andras Deak
@PaulWhite that would mean "we were wrong", even implying "the employee who said this was wrong", so yeah, not going to happen
 
user1306322
user1306322
@DavidA they probably thought it's best to just do all the potentially controversial things at the same time to minimize overall hurt even if it maximizes short-term hurt
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:26 AM
from a purely pragmatic standpoint, I don't think they can afford to admit mishandling now
considering they took such a public and dramatic stand on the issue
 
user1306322
user1306322
I think they can afford anything at this point, it's not gonna get much worse now lol
so about that new site, any news yet from the exile mods?
 
terdon
terdon
@Magisch if only that were the only statement given to the press. Sadly, it wasn't. They also gave the following statement:
> "Cellio (she/her) would not use stated pronouns, which violates our current CoC. We are soon publishing an update to the CoC to even more explicitly cite misgendering users or moderators as a violation.
 
Magisch
Magisch
yeah its pretty bad
on a related note, this entire cluster-complex is now directly responsible for 26 moderator resignations
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
@user1306322 They think they can. Whether they can, history will tell
 
terdon
terdon
@StephanS Really? Monetary damages are a requirement? I assume you're referring to the US legal system, or maybe a particular state, but are you really saying that I can publish an article accusing you of some horrible crime, and the only way you can have legal recourse is to demonstrate that cost you money?
 
user194636
11:31 AM
@Magisch Staff have admitted that multiple times, in different ways.
 
user194636
> In the last few weeks, we made a series of mistakes, both in our actions and in the ways that we communicated those actions.
 
Magisch
Magisch
never concretely
 
terdon
terdon
So if I publish an article claiming that "StephenS is a serial killer and serial pederast" or something, you couldn't take me to court if you can't prove that this caused you monetary damages? The damage to your reputation isn't enough?
 
user194636
@Magisch wiggle room
 
StephanS
StephanS
@terdon Stack Exchange is in New York, New York law applies, plus Monica couldn't sue for either of those things because she agreed to binding arbitration
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
11:32 AM
@terdon Isn't the damage to your reputation, by extension, causing monetary damage?
@StephanS She didn't, actually. She expressedly opted out
 
user1306322
user1306322
@StephanS I think she specifically opted out
 
user194636
^ that
 
StephanS
StephanS
opted out......
 
terdon
terdon
@StephanS She opted out, but never mind that. I'm curious about the general case. Are you really saying that the only thing that counts is money? And if I can't show that you made me loose money, I don't have a legal leg to stand on?
 
StephanS
StephanS
how did she "opt out"
 
terdon
terdon
11:33 AM
@SébastienRenauld Not necessarily. That's what I'm wondering about.
 
user1306322
user1306322
there was a meta post about the process
 
Magisch
Magisch
The update to the TOS permitted you to opt out of the arbitration provision within 30 days
 
user1306322
user1306322
I think you had to send an email
 
Magisch
Magisch
I did, and so did several others
email worked, but you had to provide your real name
 
terdon
terdon
@StephanS We were given the choice to opt out. We sent an email to SE and got a reply confirming that we've opted out. How useful that will be in court remains to be seen, I guess.
@Magisch No you didn't.
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:34 AM
@terdon Then I provided my real name for no reason :(
but I did get a receipt that I opted out
 
terdon
terdon
@Magisch Or I didn't and should have :) But there's not much point in just giving a name with no documents to back it up. "Magisch has opted out" is no less vague than "Mary Jones has opted out".
 
user1306322
user1306322
be sure to re-print receipts made on thermoprinting paper as they fade over the years and become inadmissible :p
 
user194636
@Meg indeed. Now I'm glad I opted out back then. — Monica Cellio Oct 7 at 19:12
 
StephanS
StephanS
@terdon interesting, anyways you can sue for anything if you want to, but the strength of your case comes down to the set of facts, and case law usually requires monetary damages (eg someone wouldn't hire you because of this)
 
user1306322
user1306322
there was a meme about the security of this whole process because anyone could send an email and they argued it wasn't worth abuse-proofing it
 
terdon
terdon
11:38 AM
@StephanS Really? So being kicked out of my social groups, receiving hate mail or death threats, going into depression, losing the custody of my children, losing my spouse etc, etc, would be considered less important than monetary damages? That seems really weird to me.
 
user1306322
user1306322
@terdon you can estimate the value of these things in a monetary amount
 
terdon
terdon
Eeeek! I meant lose above, not loose and I don't have mod-editing in this chat! I am so not used to not being able to edit my chat messages! :'(
 
user1306322
user1306322
therapist bills for one
 
202324
202324
@terdon Judge accepts proof? Congratulations. Doesn't? Better luck next time.
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
@terdon Can you not derive monetary damages from this? Going into depression is a very quantifiable one, for instance
 
StephanS
StephanS
11:39 AM
@terdon death threats are something else. In some states, you can sue for emotional damages
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
Also, arrow up to edit
5min grace window
 
user1306322
user1306322
2 minute?
 
terdon
terdon
@SébastienRenauld I find the basic premise fundamentally flawed. Why should I translate any of those to monetary damages when each is worse than losing money.
 
user1306322
user1306322
5 is for comments on main I think
 
user194636
@terdon I nearly pointed it out at the time, but didn't want too seem like a pedant
 
terdon
terdon
11:40 AM
@SébastienRenauld heh, thank you, I'm not exactly new :) It's just that meta.se chat is not on the normal chat servers, so I don't have a diamond.
 
user194636
(that too is deliberate btw)
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
@terdon Because emotional damages hit people on a different scale
 
Magisch
Magisch
@terdon fair enough
 
StephanS
StephanS
I think you're placing an emphasis on "monetary damages" what determines what those are is the court
 
Magisch
Magisch
at that time I never anticipated anyone could have a reason to sue SE
@StephanS I heard somewhere about a concept called defamation per se. It was explained to me such that some statements were so heinous that you could sue for statutory damages based on the loss of reputation alone
 
terdon
terdon
11:42 AM
@Magisch yeah, me neither. I just objected to the principle. Now, I admit I am very glad I did. I don't have any confidence that SE won't slander me to the press.
 
Magisch
Magisch
not sure how accurate that was
@terdon I'm not a mod so I don't anticipate any danger, but yeah, I'm a little more glad in hindsight that I did
 
StephanS
StephanS
libel in the UK is much more strict then libel in the US
 
Mad Scientist
Mad Scientist
@terdon Suing a US corporation from outside the country doesn't seem very feasible anyway, especially as the US has very high thresholds for libel/slander.
Not using your real name and staying as anonymous as possible is the only useful defense here
 
StephanS
StephanS
@Magisch the issue is how do court determine "loss of reputation"
 
terdon
terdon
@MadScientist Oh, good grief, no. And I certainly couldn't afford it. Still happy I have the possibility just in case though.
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:45 AM
@StephanS no clue, as I said I know only enough about law to know that I don't know anything
 
StephanS
StephanS
@Magisch it's usually determined by did you lose your job for this, were you not hired for this, did this affect your company, did this affect sales
did you lose money, or will you lose money because of this
New York is an interesting state because it recognizes emotional distress without physical contact.
so maybe, but it does go back to can you prove it, and I don't know the details to say that emotional distress would be the right route
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
-1000
 
StephanS
StephanS
12:03 PM
Plus I'm pretty sure Monica said she has no desire to sue, she just wanted to talk
if anyone wants a more detailed and thoughtful reply to the Monica situation just asked it over on Law.SE just ask an actual question and don't turn Law.SE into meta.SE
 
Magisch
Magisch
I was about to go back in and flag some more comments when this: This IP address has performed an unusual high number of requests and has been temporarily rate limited. If you believe this to be in error, please contact us at team@stackexchange.com.
How long does that usually last?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
0_0
 
Magisch
Magisch
chat seems unaffected
but can't access any main sites at this time
Maybe the pronoun assistant userscript is sending too many requests?
 
user1306322
user1306322
that could be it
 
Magisch
Magisch
I guess writing to team@ would be a week or so before reply
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
12:14 PM
I got it. No issues so far
 
Magisch
Magisch
If you're asking, can you ask what exactly caused it? If it's the script, glorfindel presumably wants to know
 
user1306322
user1306322
maybe it's worth turning it into an extension so it can support caching and only update same people at most every hour or so
 
Magisch
Magisch
Maybe this is a cosmic sign that I should stop trying to disinfect the sewer
 
user1306322
user1306322
or that
there's still a lot of foot to shoot and a few people can't stop a bullet train directed at it
 
StephanS
StephanS
@Magisch clean up the trash after the dumpster fire is put out
 
David A
David A
12:24 PM
Just remember they're watching this chat.
 
StephanS
StephanS
@DavidA I know and Tim Post was here but then he left
I'm very sad about it
 
user1306322
user1306322
don't be, it's nothing personal, just business :p
 
Magisch
Magisch
@DavidA I don't think it's particularly controversial to say MSE moderation is lacking at the moment
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
"they're watching" isn't a particularly helpful sentiment
 
StephanS
StephanS
wait no he's still here
 
Magisch
Magisch
12:26 PM
not the CMs fault either. pure volume
 
StephanS
StephanS
kinda
 
Magisch
Magisch
g3rv4 is lurking again!
It's their chat, so of course they'll be watching. We're just using it
 
user1306322
user1306322
but tv people don't watch their own shows
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch I'm not sure we were set up for this
 
StephanS
StephanS
@TimPost you're doing great work, keep it up, but don't forget to relax with some tea, might I suggest Yorkshire tea Gold, it's fantastic.
 
Magisch
Magisch
12:29 PM
@JourneymanGeek no, I have nothing but respect for the CMs, they're snowed 10 feet under right now
 
David A
David A
Correct. These ideas are somewhat mainstream, but the vitriol is not. Flagging based on tone might be more helpful.
Although "tone" is so hard to ascertain in text.
 
user1306322
user1306322
also lol at the footer: "We are Charcoal (not Stack Exchange). We make nice things."
 
David A
David A
People denying the very legitimately of any opposition just escalate things. It's happened in American politics and it's sad.
 
StephanS
StephanS
@user1306322 is that an attack or something, I mean just look at all the nice things we've made in the past week, truely great content
 
user1306322
user1306322
haha
I doubt it was supposed to read that way originally but it sure reads differently today
 
David A
David A
12:35 PM
Next person who brings up Christianity I need to reply to. Jesus would have happily hugged and washed the feet of a trans person.
 
user1306322
user1306322
@DavidA personally I think there is merit in having bad comments stay but get downvoted as they deserve, allowing the possibility for other users to respond and possibly educate someone, changing their opinion. You know, forumy stuff. But because we don't have a forum and comments aren't threaded like on reddit, this is not viable here.
and we don't have comment downvotes either
so yea this kind of discussion is not possible here, but it would be possible on reddit
 
David A
David A
Reddit is its own special kind of dumpster fire.
 
user1306322
user1306322
yeaaa "locked: y'all can't behave" :p
 
StephanS
StephanS
@DavidA hey hey hey, but we're the best dumpster fire here
 
user1306322
user1306322
@StephanS dumpstora firealis???
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
12:38 PM
@DavidA Reddit is dumpster-fire-as-a-service
 
David A
David A
We need to petition the unicode consortium for a dumpster fire emoji.
 
user1306322
user1306322
can't you already combine the trash bin with fire emoji?
 
David A
David A
With one of those funky combining characters?
 
Sébastien Renauld
Sébastien Renauld
@DavidA surely there's emoji code points for bin and fire already
just need to combine them
 
StephanS
StephanS
build it with java use vectors and paths
 
David A
David A
12:41 PM
Nah just change the renderer to recognize dumpster zero-width-joiner fire.
 
Ansgar Wiechers
Ansgar Wiechers
U+1F5D1 & U+1F525
 
David A
David A
That's how all the skin tones and flags are done.
 
StephanS
StephanS
we can use this to symbolize a dumpster fire
 
David A
David A
Plus it would still be recognizable on devices that don't support it.
 
Magisch
Magisch
seems like the rate limit expired
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
12:43 PM
@StephanS As someone who has walked into a courtroom a lot: 1. the law says damages it doesn't specify beyond that (monetary is the easiest to prove but certainly not only) 2. If your going to make statements like that you need to cite precedence (case law/judgement) 3. Please never start a conversation as "I'm a paralegal, I can ...." as you are now passing yourself off as a legal professional and advice you give can come back and bite you in the butt
 
user1306322
user1306322
🗑‍🔥
is this working?
 
David A
David A
 
user1306322
user1306322
zero width joiner is there but it seems to require specific ones to work
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
Esp. #3 - gotta protect yourself you know (that's why many lawyers still say IANAL when giving free advice/analysis online)
 
David A
David A
That's the pic a co-worker uses as his work avatar. There's a backstory there, but I don't want to make him relive it.
 
StephanS
StephanS
12:46 PM
@LinkBerest we don't have a retainer agreement, that's not legal advice
if you want a detailed answer I said ask it on Law.SE
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch a full mod team and every CM they could spare would have trouble keeping up
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
Yeah, I've seen associations (the bar) take different stances when handing down disciplines
 
David A
David A
@LinkBerest there was that meta question about a BBC article. The law and medical sciences SE sites actually have disclaimers, but programmers generally don't cause as much damage.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@JourneymanGeek My guess is you'd need 8-10 full timers to keep the thing under wraps at this point
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch its an unusual sitation
its not just about the number of flags
its also about complexity
 
StephanS
StephanS
12:48 PM
@LinkBerest ok..... if Monica was here and I was telling her to do something, maybe, maybe that's legal advice but talking about the law isn't
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
Sorry it was about the licensing thing (I saw the question someone asked you but did not see your "I'm not touching that response") - there's a lot in the transcripts.
 
Magisch
Magisch
transcriptception
a fractal of misery
 
user1306322
user1306322
reminded me of those infinite apartment building blocks from inception
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
Ignore #3 with the libel (or defamation more correctly) discussion :)
 
StephanS
StephanS
@LinkBerest look, I'm happy to talk to you about this but don't come out swinging like that, threatening someone with discipline from the bar isn't a joke.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
12:53 PM
@StephanS though if you were a real lawyer, you'd know how not a joke it was ;p
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
not a threat, something I've seen happen and did not want to see happen again for stuff like this
 
user1306322
user1306322
(because I am not a lawyer, this entire lawyer portion of the talk just went past my head completely)
 
user351483
<walks out of one chatroom, and into another>
 
Magisch
Magisch
where out of, and where into?
 
David A
David A
"How can we find the fastest growing sites within the last year?" meta sadly
 
user1306322
user1306322
12:55 PM
also, what is good in a site growing exactly
sometimes a topic exhausts itself and there are naturally no more questions to ask
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
also, not always the bar (hence associations: saw one of my friends lose his job, while on verge of becoming a partner, because of free advice he gave online while trying to help people - wasn't pretty and don't want to see it again). <- take it in that spirit it was not meant as a threat but a friendly warning based on experience (and yours may vary) :)
 
Magisch
Magisch
Back to comments on MSE. What I struggle with, is that there's a lot of comments which are overtly in good faith but could also not be, and flags have been called on less severe comments then that in the days past. These are everywhere and I don't know what exactly we can do about that or even if we should
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
Assume good faith
 
user1306322
user1306322
are users here the only ones doing something about them? by which I mean didn't shog say he's purging threads with more than a couple flags anyways?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@user1306322 no one can keep up with all of it
so flags where appropriate can be useful
 
David A
David A
12:58 PM
Dumb idea: force new users (for the first 5 questions) to go through some wizard to help them find dupe questions as a speedbump when posting a new question..
 
user1306322
user1306322
I mean what if you decide to let some of these comments be? they're still gonna attract flags from others and staff/cms might remove them anyway
 
Magisch
Magisch
@JohnDvorak So we leave anything up where I could contrive a line of reasoning that it's meant in good faith?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@DavidA the whole ethos of SE has been to have as little friction as possible
 
user1306322
user1306322
@DavidA I don't think the problem is new questions, its' probably new comments under existing ones
there are like 100+ posts related to this whole mess open for commenting
 
David A
David A
@JourneymanGeek helping people use the site's optimal workflows to their advantage might result in less overall friction.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:00 PM
@DavidA lets say SE had a perfect system of finding dupes...
 
user1306322
user1306322
@Magisch well, don't contrive it, just use some average threshold :p
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
people would post their questions anyway
if they had to do work to do their first post, they'd probably just leave and put in on quora or something
 
user1306322
user1306322
I haven't seen many of "exact duplicates" yet
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
not the worst some would say
but dosen't make for a healthy site
 
user1306322
user1306322
looks like a pentium 2 but honestly could be anything
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:03 PM
You could count the pins ;p
PIIs were slot, not socket
 
user1306322
user1306322
oh yea
what do I have on my table then
 
David A
David A
@JourneymanGeek back when stepping on a microprocessor didn't break the CPU but instead hurt your foot.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Pentium Pros and MMX were socket I think
the PII basically had bits of both but on board (not on die) cache for lower cost + higher yields
 
user1306322
user1306322
oh it's an i486 dx2
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
early PIIIs were slot too, later ones were socket
 
user1306322
user1306322
1:07 PM
on a brown die
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
those were ceramic packages
 
user1306322
user1306322
ye mine is stuck to a small radiator real good, I couldn't detach it so it was a mystery until today
I also have a much smaller celeron d
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
@user1306322 most. expensive. scratcher. ever.
 
user1306322
user1306322
core 2 duo is still working, but I'm not using that desktop at the moment
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
C2D is LGA ;p
the pins are on the motherboard
 
user1306322
user1306322
1:11 PM
yea I haven't had a chance to find that out coz it hasn't died yet
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Oh I built one 2 PCs ago
 
user1306322
user1306322
pentium 2 was also still alive when I took it out
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
its LGA 775.
 
user1306322
user1306322
actually none of them died, I just upgraded my desktop towers over the years is all
well… first couple were purchases by my parents, as family computers :p
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Oh, of the 7-8 PCs I have built
only 2 and a dumpster repair were not family computers
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
1:17 PM
@JourneymanGeek Nice! I love the feeling and process of building a PC.
I actually built one with my in-laws and they thanked me for 1) saving them money and 2) teaching them that a computer is not this mysterious unfixable box of unknowable stuff.
 
user1306322
user1306322
I cannot say I love it lol
 
Ansgar Wiechers
Ansgar Wiechers
I have built several computers, but sometimes they're still this mysterious box of unknowable stuff ...
 
user1306322
user1306322
it's not comfortable, I start sweating and sweat drops have a chance to fall into the assembly... brought back horrible memories
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
@AnsgarWiechers special rocks with electricity in them
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Rubiksmoose Its my happy place ;p
And my cup doth runneth over since I have a new PC
and I managed to fix the issues with my old one (mostly) and upgrade it (for cheap with random chinese junk)
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
1:24 PM
@JourneymanGeek ooo! nice! Gaming or general purpose or other?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Rubiksmoose gaming
core i9, gforce 980 TI (from my old box) 2x UHD monitors
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@JourneymanGeek What did you do for graphics?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Rubiksmoose 980 TI for now
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
(ninjad) lol
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I'd love a RTX series but $$$$
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
1:25 PM
Hey that's what I have in my box!
It's still pretty great I think.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
My old box is a 3770 - had a gforce 660 new (sold it cause I didn't need another graphics card at the time) runs onboard graphics now
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
Oh yeah. RTX is... to much to justify for me.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
32 gb on both at the moment ramwise.
@Rubiksmoose my 980 TI does almost all of what I need it to do, reasonably ;p
 
Bart
Bart
980 TI is still pretty damn decent.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
currently I just remote into my old box still running windows ;p
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
1:27 PM
I just got an RTX but the GTX worked well for me for years
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Might throw linux on it
@Bart it is
 
user1306322
user1306322
can your cpu run dark souls 3 at 4k res without stutters?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I'm in no particular rush to upgrade
@user1306322 I'd die... oh wait.
 
user1306322
user1306322
just at the first bonfire
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@user1306322 I usually actually do 1440 or 1080p for gaming
lets me crank up the pretties
I like UHD for text actually
 
LinkBerest
LinkBerest
1:28 PM
isn't the point of dark souls to die? cause I die a lot in it
 
user1306322
user1306322
ah I've got a 4k monitor and some games just became cpu-hungry for whatever dumb reason all of a sudden
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
That joke went flying overhead like a pig at a pink floyd concert.
 
user1306322
user1306322
borderlands 2 in particular
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I had no isssues with BL2 when I played the addon
Can't remember what res
 
user1306322
user1306322
yea it only gets bad when the resolution is that high
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
1:30 PM
Hmm, I have a post that shows 0 up / -1 down, but the total is 0...
https://shouldiblamecaching.com/
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@OrangeDog SO?
 
user1306322
user1306322
also the outline effect was not configured to look as thick as it does on fullhd
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
they're experimenting with hiding negative vote counts?
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
According to profile, the vote was Oct 9th
@JourneymanGeek another post on the same page has +3/-1 and a total of 2
 
user1306322
user1306322
anyway I was just idly wondering what kinda cpu would I need to play dark souls 3 at 4k where it can comfortably output 60fps and what to look out for in gaming benchmarks
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:32 PM
@OrangeDog ah
@user1306322 tbh I just bought the best GPU I could afford at the time ;p
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
hmm, although turns out that downvote was me
 
user1306322
user1306322
not for ds3, but for other future games which are coded to need fast single-core performance or whatever
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
and the 980TI was better value than the titan
@user1306322 most modern games are multithreaded
and that's CPU not GPU based
 
user1306322
user1306322
procexp shows both borderlands and dark souls using at most 15% of gpu and 100% cpu
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
uhm
what's your CPU?
 
user1306322
user1306322
1:34 PM
i5 8400 6-core
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
that seems... strange
 
user1306322
user1306322
yea very
it's fine on 1080p but at 1440 it gets kinda hot and at 4k it's 30fps
something about how those games were made
not everybody tests for 4k even these days
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@JourneymanGeek So much better value.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Rubiksmoose if memory serves 90% of the performance at half the cost
 
user1306322
user1306322
maybe they're using cpu-bound shaders or post-processing effects
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:36 PM
not cheap but...
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@JourneymanGeek Yup, that rings true to me as well. You were paying so much for so little.
But yeah still pricey. I think I got mine for 500-600?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I was upgrading that on a ... uhm
3 year old PC?
Actually held up pretty well - replaced the heat sink (the pins on the old one had somehow gone wierd) and added ram, and it runs better than it did new ;p
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
17
Q: It should be “large number” of off-topic comments, not “high amount”

StormblessedSee this, one of the notices for why a post is locked (emphasis mine): This post has been locked due to the high amount of off-topic comments generated. A link to a chat room will be posted in the comments below if the conversation was moved to chat. This is totally wrong. If it is distinct...

bug locked-questions grammar locked-answers
FINALLY
We need more of these.
58, get to work
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Pedantry? ;p
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@JourneymanGeek Nice! My problem when upgrading my current setup is going to be that I'm on Z97. So if the mobo or CPU goes I basically have to replace both.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:44 PM
@Rubiksmoose my old one was a z77....
so ram, cpu, ....
basically the whole PC ;p
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@JourneymanGeek Oof. But then again, I kinda knew that going in (I got it near the end of Z97). So much more price efficient though.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Rubiksmoose also depends on your upgrade cycle
I do 5-7 for a main PC
then get a little more out of it as a spare/test PC
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@JourneymanGeek college roommate made a good point to me awhile back, upgrade every 3ish years and buy midrange. You get better more often and generally stay ahead of the curve. Moreover you can sell the old parts while they still have value
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Mgetz with my love of mucking around - having spare hardware is worth its weight in gold
and the shiny
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
1:49 PM
@JourneymanGeek I didn't realize time was directly convertible to currency -pedantic -Wall -Werror
aww that ruined the joke
/sigh
 
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
We need more ruined jokes
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@M.A.R. insert joke about metas here
 
user351483
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Snow Seems a bit nutty
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
Just saw Yvette's (now deleted) MSO question. What a mess on all sides, but exactly the sort of thing that the CoC changes will continue to cause.
 
David A
David A
1:57 PM
@OrangeDog What happened?
 
OrangeDog
OrangeDog
good-faith comment addressing someone as "dude", good-faith flagging by addressee as sexist, everyone went mad
 
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