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user1306322

12:00 PM

@rene kinda?

Shadow Wizard

plz-delete prediction model meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312839/… @rene @JourneymanGeek @Glorfindel

@Bart is pingable!!!

Somewhat Memorable Name

So... the question is only asking about "why", not "what should I do", which is on-topic. However, the answers also give suggestion either to repair, or thrash it. Both are legit. There's nothing wrong about the suggestion (to each his own, but personally, I agree it's up to them to repair/trash/sell it). BUT, the suggestion is actually unrelated to the question.

Journeyman Geek

Nothing wrong with that recommendation in many situations

user1306322

sure

for most items which are not reusable it's fine

Journeyman Geek

If you dislike the answer there's many great ways to disagree

user1306322

12:02 PM

bit in that question it's a photo camera

Journeyman Geek

Like another answer

user1306322

see I don't want to "disagree" or post another answer

rene

@ShadowWizard yes, he showed up, I guess to enjoy a bit of the Kruudmoes as well ...

Journeyman Geek

Then what exactly do you want to do?

Somewhat Memorable Name

I guess you haven't (or don't want to) see this video then...

World's First Canon 300mm L Lens Cup (real L lens!)

►

Shadow Wizard

12:04 PM

@rene Kru what?

sounds like crude moes

user1306322

@JourneymanGeek I want to find out if the community at large thinks that a better recommendation would be to re-sell or give away mostly functioning cameras (or other sophisticated hardware) if repairing for the price the shops asking is not feasible, instead of suggesting to just trash it

Shadow Wizard

So what is a moe? @rene

user1306322

I think it's wasteful and maybe others will agree with me

I don't want this to be just 1 answer on 1 question, or to make it my duty to personally go out there and answer all such questions with this advice

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1306322 about this... unfortunately it's up to the community to decide if such meta/canonical posts are acceptable or not. I'm afraid this is a losing battle for you, unless you could present it with a strong argument.

user1306322

I guess I can't :p

Journeyman Geek

12:06 PM

Erm. So you're sounding like you disagree

rene

@ShadowWizard this: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=7110445#7110445

Shadow Wizard

@rene is this... bacon?

rene

also, yes

user1306322

@SomewhatMemorableName alright I'll drop this issue

this much effort spent only discussing the validity of asking about it on meta is sign enough that it's not gonna work out

Journeyman Geek

Yup

user1306322

12:09 PM

if any of you guys want to talk anime, maybe hop into our room

we give recommendations there

Shadow Wizard

@user1306322 you appear to spend lots of time and efforts on trying to argue over things which you can't change. "Appear" since I didn't read everything here, just saw the volume of messages, plus comments on the question sparking it.

Somewhat Memorable Name

It's actually complicated(?).

It's probably possible to influence Photo.SE community to create a (canonical) post about "what to do with broken camera/gear" (might be too broad, but well, canonical...). The problem is in how to approach them (and this looks like the source of the problem)

So... go to IPS instead?

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName how to approach who? The Photo.SE community? In their per-site meta of course...

Can't see anything complicated about it.

> Let's create a canonical question about "what to do with broken camera/gear"

Meta question title ^

status-keep-it-simple

So that's what you discussed 100+ messages about?

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Derpy

@ShadowWizard if you click the message you go to the transcript. Which is filled with sweets and candies.

Journeyman Geek

12:18 PM

Though it helps a little if you have some goodwill you can take advantage of

Somewhat Memorable Name

that's... I guess the small portion of it? Unless I complicated the stuff in thinking that he also wanted to have a "1-for-all" post on MSE and generalize it to "any broken stuff"....

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy ohhh.. well, the time stamp..

user1306322

@ShadowWizard it's such a minor good thing to do for the good of all people and I'm meeting to much resistance, misunderstanding and hostility... do you ever get this experience on SE?

Bart

@ShadowWizard lies

Shadow Wizard

@user1306322 2 out of 3. resistance? Yes. misunderstanding? Of course. hostility? Only if I'm hostile first, or enter a defensive mode where anything appear to be hostile.

user1306322

12:28 PM

it's like when everyone for decades has been spewing bubble gum on the asphalt near metro exits and people are so used to it, it's not even registering as a problem with most of them. Now I ask "do you think maybe we should advise people not to spit out their gum on the streets?" and people are like this is not a real problem, I don't get it, what are you trying to ask, etc

this is a question of etiquette

Shadow Wizard

@Bart cakes?

user1306322

I get that metas don't discuss such things mainly, but sometimes they do

@ShadowWizard well, hostility is my interpretation, same as when other users here said they found my tone problematic

upon re-reading some of the messages, I don't think they're any more hostile than mine

so no hard feelings

Magisch

criticism is not hostility always

Shadow Wizard

Soft feelings?

user1306322

eh

Magisch

12:30 PM

Also, I am a cactus

user1306322

gelatinous-like feelings?

Magisch

cacti are known for being prickly

user1306322

how about non-neutonic feelings

Shadow Wizard

@user1306322 yummy

Somewhat Memorable Name

No hard feeling... we're already used to it since the "perceive feeling" from a certain blog post

user1306322

12:31 PM

hmm? what post

talkin bout The Welcoming?

Somewhat Memorable Name

yep.

But well, meta is (always) weird.

user1306322

I already posted my thought on that

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName and wired

Magisch

Meta is murder

user1306322

wried? is that a word?

> simple past tense and past participle of wry

Somewhat Memorable Name

12:35 PM

A certain site uses it to announce the death of artists. Another uses it to announce CTF events. One also uses it to encourage the community to get the site 100% answer rate.

user1306322

> From Middle English wrien, from Old English wrīġian (“to go, turn, twist, bend, strive, struggle, press forward, endeavor, venture”), from Proto-Germanic *wrigōną (“to wriggle”), from Proto-Indo-European *wreyḱ- (“to turn, wrap, tie”), from Proto-Indo-European *wer- (“to turn, bend”). Compare awry, wriggle.

some sites simply cannot have 100% answer rate

I go to meta to hurt myself emotionally :I

Somewhat Memorable Name

well, then I can only suggest to avoid them... unless you enjoy being hurt (ドM)

user1306322

btw that's a shirt from 2012

Magisch

@user1306322 Are you a glutton for downvotes?

:D

Shadow Wizard

@user1306322 your shirt?

user1306322

12:38 PM

I enjoy seeing improvements on the sites I use (and within these huge communities) more than I dislike momentary hurt feelings

Shadow Wizard

I have a shirt "F*ck Google, Ask Me!" :D

user1306322

and it's pretty minor anyways

Shadow Wizard

(got as a gift)

user1306322

@ShadowWizard no it's some guy who draws a pretty alright comic

Shadow Wizard

oh

Magisch

12:39 PM

idk what to think about this: meta.stackexchange.com/a/312779

user1306322

nedroid.com/2013/03/adventures-in-housesitting

I just wonder how the staff is reading these answers and taking them into account. How much do they just do what they wanted to do in the first place regardless, how much of it is actually good (and smart) intentions, how much of it is profit-driven, how much of it is misunderstanding of what he community is saying

can't be easy to steer such a huge community the right way

Magisch

@user1306322 It's probably even harder then any of us can imagine

I think they're trying hard to get actionable feedback and incorporate it when they can see the reasoning

user1306322

well, I'm trying to imagine since I want to own a medium-large company in the future and managing that is gonna take some of this knowledge :p

Magisch

Staff isn't robots, so they can be influenced and they seem to be more open then average to that

Somewhat Memorable Name

Your questions will be answered on the next Town Hall in 6-8 weeks...

Magisch

12:45 PM

I wonder why they retired the town hall

was fun

user1306322

something something tyrrany of majority

Journeyman Geek

1:04 PM

@Magisch oh. I should add that to my answer to Juan

Magisch

They also are still hiring a new CM. Maybe there'll be more leeway for these things in the future

Journeyman Geek

Well one?

:p

Magisch

I dont know how many

I assumed their ad was for one.

Journeyman Geek

Unless there is another opening no one is aware of

Magisch

This sounds like you have insider information

Somewhat Memorable Name

1:08 PM

If there's another opening, then that opening is for security advisor...

Journeyman Geek

Well in a sense I kinda want to push for a little more direct to community interaction.... Tho ya, I get it dosen't scale

Magisch

I think in our place it would scale plenty

the meta crowd is really small

John Dvorak

Do we have to be welcoming to CMs? Do CMs have to be welcoming to us?

Journeyman Geek

Naw, network bwide

@JohnDvorak depends on who it is.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Apparently JNat was a mod on Anime.SE... until he became a CM.

Journeyman Geek

1:10 PM

But most of the current and past lot were great

Magisch

I shall be welcoming to the new cm(s)

Martin James

@Magisch Well, sure, at first..

Journeyman Geek

Other than team chaos alumini like Abby most CMs are former mods

Martin James

..after all, every one deserves a chance until they get really annoying, (6-8 weeks:).

Journeyman Geek

Oh and the first CMs

Journeyman Geek

1:47 PM

@ShadowWizard and you would tell them, google it?

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek of course! :P

Shadow Wizard

2:09 PM

OK.... this is disturbing on so many levels.... ready?

Set...

GO!

No Google, this is not Obama...

Expected Google to be bit better with thousands of terra bytes of images in their database.

Wait...

Or perhaps...

Trump + Putin = Obama

Magisch

@ShadowWizard Far more likely word association. trump = president, obama = president, or somesuch

Or correlation of mention in articles

Somewhat Memorable Name

sd I just realized that's a signature from the previous post.

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch nah, if it would have identified it as either Trump or Putin, it would have said it as best guess.

Journeyman Geek

might be an email address

Shadow Wizard

Anyway... guess Trumputin is now a common word?

@JourneymanGeek still spammy. Flagged already.

Journeyman Geek

2:15 PM

ditto

not sure about the earlier 'answer'

Somewhat Memorable Name

Trumpetin'

Shadow Wizard

heh, it's old meme but now it got featured with that Time cover and must admit, they did a good art work!

:D

Catija

@Magisch The mod blog a few weeks ago indicated that there's only one position.

Magisch

I just assumed based on the size of the CM team

Shadow Wizard

Ever decreasing size, you mean?

The network grows, the Community Team shrinks.

Magisch

2:21 PM

I assumed since the CM team is small to begin with they wouldn't hire more then 1 extra

Shadow Wizard

Oh you talk about the localized CM hiring?

That probably won't be ordinary CM(s), they'll only be hired to work with one specific site/language. No? @Magisch

Somewhat Memorable Name

Or they'll open more localized sites.

Shadow Wizard

nah

Many require change in the core design, e.g. RTL support.

Which means lots of dev time.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I don't think that's a thing any more

Shadow Wizard

What isn't a thing? Dev time?

Journeyman Geek

2:24 PM

The localised SO CMs

Jmac wasn't really an international CM, nor was JNat (who I think also handles pt.so), and Juan's doing the new team

Shadow Wizard

Not SO, localized sites, as far as I understand, e.g. spanish.stackexchange.com

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard naw, most of them kinda handled a international SO site

Shadow Wizard

Though maybe I got it all wrong, didn't delve deep inside yet.

Journeyman Geek

oh and RU, but RU got the CM with the site ;p

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek RU got @Nicolas now

Nicolas Chabanovsky ♦, Санкт-Петербург

303 1 8

Journeyman Geek

2:25 PM

@ShadowWizard He was part of the site before it became part of the SO family ;p

I can't remember the name, hashcode? Its the only local SO that was incubated outside

Shadow Wizard

And there is @g3rv4 who is involved very deep with localization as well though he's a dev, not CM. ;)

Journeyman Geek

Also, other than him and jnat, and most folks on the CM team are US based.

Catija

I think all?

g3rv4

yup, we were at a really painful state with the integration with Transifex

Shadow Wizard

Tim Post isn't in USA, no?

Magisch

2:27 PM

lurking @g3rv4 is lurking

Catija

I think he wasn't at some point but is now.

Shadow Wizard

oh, yup

Journeyman Geek

Yup, he was the closest CM to me XD

Manila IIRC

g3rv4

@Magisch always

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek correct

Feb 2 '11 at 17:39, by Tim Post

72 degrees F here in Manila :) I don't miss shoveling that stuff or cleaning off my car.

@Magisch but at least he insta reply to pings! :D

And don't come yelling at us for pinging him.... ;)

Journeyman Geek

2:30 PM

Hi g3rv4 we were totally not gossiping about you XD

Catija

... I would think that gossiping wouldn't include actual pings...

:P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Man I'm jealous

It's 720 degrees F here

Journeyman Geek

@Catija we're not very good at it :(

@Catija IIRC jnat's uk based. No one out here in asia ;p

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ cool!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Cats are good at gossiping

Shadow Wizard

2:33 PM

Is it just me, or does this man look like @g3rv4?

it is just you

:(

Yep, just you

lol heck no

lol

So you don't sell chocolate? @g3rv4 ;)

g3rv4

2:35 PM

for the right amount of money...

Catija

That's a very large hoop earring.

Shadow Wizard

oh, they're expensive

maxbrenner.com/menus-new/… /cc @g3rv4

My wife took me there (Israel branch, not NY ;)) for my birthday. :D

For a very sweet breakfast!

g3rv4

ohhh sorry, I totally forgot about that picture... we took it a year ago. That is me. How may I help you? send me your CC details to my email

Shadow Wizard

lol

arresting @g3rv4 for fraud

g3rv4

it looks really cool ;)

Shadow Wizard

2:38 PM

Sweet and cool... I ordered some cold coffee with chocolate ice cream.

Journeyman Geek

hmm, strange men with hoop earings distributing chocolate is no basis for government!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Some chocolates do taste like frauds

Journeyman Geek

Even if its from a free candy van.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek says you

g3rv4

@ShadowWizard that escalated quickly

Shadow Wizard

2:38 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ sure, those with salt.

@g3rv4 you can still ask for pardon... :D

Journeyman Geek

Depends, I thought only presidents got those?

@ShadowWizard actually

dark chocolate with seasalt works well

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek Pardons? Or salt chocolates?

@JourneymanGeek fraud!

Journeyman Geek

same reason you can make low sugar lemonade with a touch of salt

Shadow Wizard

throwing @JourneymanGeek into same cell as @g3rv4 for fraud :D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard hah

eats the walls

Shadow Wizard

2:40 PM

Won't that make you too fat to pass anyway? :P

1 wall = 10000 calories

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard He would eat more

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ and won't be able to pass at the door?

Journeyman Geek

If there are no walls, I will not need to pass.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

He would eat until the entire base is just underground foundation

Shadow Wizard

lol

Just prison, not army base.

Journeyman Geek

2:42 PM

I'd be a fat little dog....

looking a bit like a bimp with little legs and head.

Shadow Wizard

Small dog, big belly.

Journeyman Geek

(ash is a little overweight ._.)

Shadow Wizard

You spoil him too much...

But many people are overweight without being spoiled. :)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard mostly my dad

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

And many people are spoiled without being overweight

Journeyman Geek

2:43 PM

I spoil him with all the walkies ._.

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek this?

Walkie-talkie

A walkie-talkie (more formally known as a handheld transceiver, or HT) is a hand-held, portable, two-way radio transceiver. Its development during the Second World War has been variously credited to Donald L. Hings, radio engineer Alfred J. Gross, and engineering teams at Motorola. First used for infantry, similar designs were created for field artillery and tank units, and after the war, walkie-talkies spread to public safety and eventually commercial and jobsite work.Typical walkie-talkies resemble a telephone handset, with a speaker built into one end and a microphone in the other (in some...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek so he eats everything that moves while walking?

Journeyman Geek

no ;p

he's picky.

my dad feeds him too much, I try to walk it off

Catija

I'm pretty sure you can't do the exercise for your dog...

Journeyman Geek

@Catija naw, but he tends to walk more with me.

Cause my dad lacks patiene

Catija

2:48 PM

As long as he's actually walking rather than being carried. :P

Journeyman Geek

oh I don't carry him ;p

Somewhat Memorable Name

Hhh... my family's dog never go walking because the environment in general hates dog, seeing it as a haram animal...

Journeyman Geek

@SomewhatMemorableName :(

walkies are the best

Catija

I see people carrying around their tiny dogs all the time.

Journeyman Geek

also wierdly malays (who're ethnically almost the same)... sometimes love dogs

I'm like "I'm so sorry..."

and they go "PUPPY!"

Shadow Wizard

2:50 PM

@Catija in a bag?

Catija

Sometimes... or just in their arms.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija I carry ash when his legs give out

its been better

oh and stairs

Shadow Wizard

Journeyman Geek

That's not a dog

Its baby Falkor the dragon

Shadow Wizard

lol

Somewhat Memorable Name

2:51 PM

@JourneymanGeek also, probably size and appearance play a role...

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek but... Google is never wrong...

oh wait...

Journeyman Geek

@SomewhatMemorableName apparently a lot of them had dogs in the kampongs

Shadow Wizard

So if Google think Trumputin is Obama, guess it can think a dragon is a dog. Fake news!! :D

"Search for a dog.... get cow images as result, and we insist it's actually a dog!"

Somewhat Memorable Name

So, the dog looks like this ('looks like', not mine)

Balinese/Kintamani dog?

and he seems hyperactive since a puppy, like to chew anything including my fingers

oh well, here it is in his cage (old photo, currently I'm staying abroad)

and back then...

(okay, enough of my pitiful dog :x

Magisch

3:15 PM

@ShadowWizard What do you mean at least? Lurking g3rv4 is not a bad thing

rene

@ShadowWizard are they seriously charging $7 for a Heineken? I may hope that is 1 litre?

Tinkeringbell

@SomewhatMemorableName But he?'s super cute! Not pitiful at all :)

@rene You can get a crate for that price if stuff is on sale!

rene

yes ...

Catija

NYC prices...

Tinkeringbell

That'd be 24 * 33 cl... So about 8 litres?

rene

3:18 PM

Everything is sky-high there ...

Catija

$5 for a side of bacon? FFS.

rene

@Tinkeringbell for $7 we can get drunk for two days, at least ...

might needs lots of coffee afterwards ...

Tinkeringbell

@rene lightweight :P

@rene even more than usual? I guess that might become a little problematic ;)

rene

yes, I'm not saying I fancy that or are planning on that ...

Tinkeringbell

@rene not? It sounds like a great vacation plan ;)

Margaritas at the kiddie swimming pool! In Backyardia!

rene

3:30 PM

lol

rene

3:43 PM

@Magisch it wasn't in 1/4 of the time and that is not important but I have a slightly different version: data.stackexchange.com/meta.stackexchange/query/… just for learning purposes.

Magisch

@rene nice touch using the join with only one subquery. Makes it more readable, although I suspect the performance is about equal since in the execution plan it does all the index scans on comments at once (I think?)

rene

your query does 2 index scans and 3 seeks, mine does 2 scans and 1 seek. But I'm sure all happens in memory so I doubt you can measure (unless you run this 1000/s)

it is all indees, no full table scans. It is good enough ...

Never thought close votes and doors where so connected: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/262851/578411

Catija

Wind? Who/what is "wind" in that analogy?

Somewhat Memorable Name

should we use wind-pls now???

Catija

3:59 PM

:/ I think that we're obscure enough with our terminology in here with the Sonic the Hedgehog references.

... maybe too obscure...

Magisch

@rene Learn something new every day

I'm getting better at SQL though

Somewhat Memorable Name

I guess Shadow meant "blowing wind" (nature force)... and thus... a question closed by itself?!

that's cool...

Martin James

@Magisch You noticed your IQ dropping in correspondence? :)

I guess that, while PHP/jQuery exist, SQL is not that bad..

rene

@SomewhatMemorableName when cv-pls gets forbidden we switch to that ...

Tinkeringbell

@Catija We should go for 'on-hold votes' :P

Somewhat Memorable Name

4:06 PM

hold-on-pls

wait, wrong command...

Tinkeringbell

I'm still waiting XD

Catija

hold-on-pls is what you use when wind-pls reaches omg-hurricane levels.

Tinkeringbell

Nice!

Tinkeringbell

4:24 PM

Yay, I got my first bounty :D

Party will be at nine PM Dutch time zone!

rene

Okay ...

Martin James

CoC V2.0 is up.

John Dvorak

Uh oh

> With that said, we don't expect most folks reading this to find themselves in a precarious place due to enforcement; the worst most might expect is seeing a hastily-written comment that was uncharacteristically insensitive removed unceremoniously by a moderator in flag-processing mode.

On one hand I appreciate that we're being explicitly reassured no suspension-fest is going to happen. On the other, "we don't expect" could mean they're contemplating the possibility that a suspension-fest might happen :P

I do welcome the effort the SE team is putting towards getting feedback from the community and reacting to it. (disclosure: I haven't started reading v2 yet)

Shadow Wizard

4:42 PM

@rene lol... No idea... Never thought to order beer in a place specializing in chocolate! 🍫 ;)

Somewhat Memorable Name

Might as well droppin' the link here

10

Q: The second draft of our Code of Conduct is available for feedback and review

You provided us with some really helpful feedback on our first draft attempt to expand our 'Be nice' policy into a formal code of conduct, and we're extremely grateful for your time, patience and insights. This was not an easy discussion to have and we are extremely proud of the civility and insi...

discussion featured code-of-conduct

rene

that our kids will use one day ... I wasn't planning anything ... so I'm working for the kids of someone else ...

Somewhat Memorable Name

Anyway, how to be welcoming to those anonymous animals? :)

Catija

I have one and a half... you can do it for them. :P

rene

One and a half? I guess I get the half you don't like ;)

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