Tavern on the Meta

Somewhat Memorable Name

12:04 AM

Hhh... 'clique' on SE...

I guess that term can't be avoided when someone opposing some particular users' moderation...

Journeyman Geek

12:39 AM

@ThorstenS. it depends

There's two sides to moderation - the mechanics and the people side

I can probably handle flags on an aggregate of 30 minutes a day, split up into 5 minute chunks

People are messy. :P

I don't spend extra time than I did as a normal user. I just spend it differently

noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ

I just saw a helpful answer on a question in a review queue

It should've been a comment.

I thought, "This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. Thank you for your contribution." would be warmer

The current comment reply simply sounds cold and bureaucratic

Mithrandir

feel free to ask a new question and suggest it - I'd get behind that

i agree that the current review comments aren't the most welcoming

noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ

good idea

Hmm, @Mithrandir, any ideas on other thank you phrases?

Odd. It seems like they're testing new delete comment descriptions!

I just got this one from the system:

> “This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post.”

Mithrandir

1:04 AM

That depends on reputation.

If you have over 50 reputation you get the second one.

noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ

oh I see

thanks

noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ

1:16 AM

0

Q: Can we reword the "belongs as a comment" text to be warmer?

While I was going through the Low Quality Posts review queue, I spotted an answer to the question that was genuinely helpful as a comment. When you reccomend for deletion, you're given an option to leave a templated comment on the post to help the author learn. Here's the current text for when an...

user1271772

5:01 AM

I'm afraid of posting a question on meta because of what happened last time, can I ask it here?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 you might still not like the answer.

(also, you just asked a question ;) )

user1271772

The answer to what?

Journeyman Geek

your question

user1271772

The answer to what question? What are you talking about?

I asked a question, but not on the Meta Stack Exchange I asked it in the Tavern on Meta Chat

Journeyman Geek

I mean, if you're asking questions here instead of meta cause you're afraid, you might still not like the responses you get.

And meta's not that scary, it just needs folks to, well get time to know it, and the community.

ɥʇǝS

5:05 AM

@JourneymanGeek I don't think he means he's expecting a different answer, but nicer people.

@JourneymanGeek Although this is definitely correct

Journeyman Geek

@ɥʇǝS ... Its kinda the same people? ;p

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek, this is ridiculous, my question is about which stack exchange to post a certain question I have..... I don't care what the answer is, I just don't want to get a bunch of negative votes from a bunch of people that I believe to be irrational

Journeyman Geek

Just no downvotes

OH

Go ahead

those are fine and usually alright for meta with little risk. But ya, go ahead and ask

user1271772

I'm afraid to take the risk, I'm also scared to write an answer to the question asking for feedback about the new CoC

Journeyman Geek

ooh. COC... erm

Might run it by folks here first

Its not you, people are just... kinda passionate about it

user1271772

5:07 AM

most of the CoC upvotes are going to people who are saying the new CoC is asking for too much nice. People that are saying that it's not asking for enough nice, are getting dozens of -1 vote

Journeyman Geek

ah. ya

sigh, a few of the circumstances around the COC are... messy

I actually think there's a happy middle line somewhere. We absolutely need to maintain quality, but I hate the narrative of us getting eternal septembered.

user1271772

Ok so I can't figure out how many Bangladeshi people live in Hong Kong, I searched a lot of places. The best I could find was that in 2006, the amount was less than 7851, but it might be a LOT less than 7851 because it includes a LOT of different ethnic groups.

"The numbers of Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans were not individually broken out in the 2006 By-Census Thematic Report on Ethnic Minorities, from which the above statistics originate. The total population of "Other Asians", which may include members of those two groups, was 7,851."

Journeyman Geek

oooh

user1271772

I looked up "all sites stack exchange" and searched "geography" and "demographics"

Journeyman Geek

that... dosen't quite fit well on SE

user1271772

5:10 AM

There's a GIS stack exchange but it's people asking about the geography software

Journeyman Geek

yup

There's nowhere on SE I can recommend.

user1271772

I guess it doesn't fit well because it's something that changes every year? So I need to ask on ugly Quora ?

Journeyman Geek

Well, and it just dosen't fit anywhere well

I'm sorry man.

user1271772

Ok but I found it strange that in the whole area51 there is no "geography" stack exchange. There's a chemistry, and a literature, and a history, and all the other subjects we learned in school

I'm not "man"

Journeyman Geek

Even there, questions like that arn't quite the sorta thing you can answer once and the answer stays right for a long period of time

Ok, person

user1271772

5:13 AM

On quora there's no negative votes, but the website is uglier

And the default profile pic they gave me there is not as good

Journeyman Geek

and is designed for a ... very different crowd

Quora seems very much "top of head, pop culturey questions"

This almost feels like an oldschool "ask a librarian for reference" question

user1271772

Maybe I can get the answer there, but the question I wanted to ask on Meta was a bit bigger, like "why is there no geography stack exchange" or "would a geography stack exchange be well received" or something

Journeyman Geek

Which apparently was a thing pre internet

@user1271772 that would get closed, and people would point you at A51

user1271772

The thing is, we've had internet since the 90s and yet there still isn't a place I can ask experts for how to find the thing I'm looking for

In the question I would say "in the whole area51 there is no "geography" stack exchange. There's a chemistry, and a literature, and a history, and all the other subjects we learned in school"

Journeyman Geek

maybe call/email these guys and ask, lol bahkg.com

@user1271772 would still get closed, most likely

user1271772

5:16 AM

Is there a place where we can ask these sorts of questions?

Journeyman Geek

If anyone has an interest in knowing, it would be the community association

user1271772

About the existence of Area51 proposals, or like, where to ask a question? Without being downvoted ? I think the downvoting comes because they want to discourage newcomers from asking on Meta

I there a place where I could ask which SE would be most appropriate for asking a certain type of question? Which wouldn't be so risky in terms of downvotes? You've already answered it in this case, but if it happened again?

Journeyman Geek

5:59 AM

Meta

and no, the downvoting is cause of a lack of research, or understanding of SE

or we want stuff gone. Most of my DVs here are actually stuff I need to delvote for being very very off topic

user1271772

I think that "ideally the downvoting would be due to lack of research or understanding of SE" but in reality it's a lot more dangerous than that for a newcomer to ask a question.

Somewhat Memorable Name

So I ask, why is downvoting dangerous for newcomer?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 in nearly every community I've been in, I've spent a little time getting to know the folks there.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 btw, Meta SE is the place to ask for site-recommendation. But if you're asking why there's no site for [topic], then no one can answer and just tell you to propose that site on A51

Journeyman Geek

Strange old men distributing swords is an odd basis for personal survival

the good news is? Sometimes people spend years on a site and don't get it. Its not about newbies

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:11 AM

Plot twist: the old man is Link from another dimension...

Journeyman Geek

I was going to post the version with a kitten, but I couldn't resist the monty python reference

user1271772

@SomewhatMemorableName: I do not know WHY they are like that, but there's people with a huge amount of reputation that make very lazy decisions which are wrong and it can hurt the newcomers asking questions badly

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 yanno? It annoys me when people keep blaming the "old guard" for stuff like that

Its a very dangerous narrative, almost as bad as eternal september dooming us all.

user1271772

It annoys you that certain members of the old guard are blamed for making very lazy decisions which are wrong?

Somewhat Memorable Name

One thing though, and it's a common misconception from new users, that voting is not personal.

Journeyman Geek

6:14 AM

It annoys me that folks assume that there's some kinda high rep cabal holding down newbies.

We're not "The Man"

user1271772

@SomewhatMemorableName: I can agree with that, since the people that closed the question did not know me at all. But the fact that it's not personal doesn't help.

@JourneymanGeek Have other people also made similar accusations?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 sure

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 We have often heard that kind of accusations on many meta

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek But not a lot of people other than me?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 well, its worth looking at things from other points of view

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:16 AM

But they're often wrong, or having some misunderstanding about something.

user1271772

@SomewhatMemorableName If it happens often, and @JourneymanGeek if it's annoying, then wouldn't you be interested in how to stop it from happening in the future?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 We try our best to engage them. But some folks always assume everyone else is wrong

user1271772

Why do you use the word "assume" when it comes to something that's subjective?

Somewhat Memorable Name

Like, suspending the user? It's one way to stop it.

user1271772

Inside their own brains, they are nothing but correct.

Journeyman Geek

6:18 AM

@user1271772 we see it a lot?

@user1271772 and they have a $deity given right to have whatever they say accepted without question.

Meta's full of folks who're engaged and passionate about SE

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 but some people do admit being wrong or not having answers to everything. Each person has different, well, personality.

user1271772

@SomewhatMemorableName : I do not think suspending "the user" is the best solution, because for example, I'm a newcomer that's making complaints which are annoying to you. You can suspend me now, but it's too late.

Journeyman Geek

But that also means anything can be questioned. Even if you work for SE.

@user1271772 Its never too late.

I mean, ideally we find a state where no one's too unhappy

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek I think you are not understanding at all. Suspending me will not stop other newcomers from making the same "annoying" complaints right?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 See, we don't suspend people for complaining

We suspend people for being abusive. Newbies and experienced users alike.

We're fair like that.

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:21 AM

@user1271772 yeah, suspending is for the extreme case... else, take it to per-site meta and discuss the problem in a civil manner.

user1271772

Maybe there was 1000 people that made annoying complaints before and you suspended them, but I was a newcomer that asked my first question on Meta and decided to complain about the outcome, you can then suspend me too, but do you see how you will not be improving the situation for yourselves?

Journeyman Geek

See, if you're constantly focused on you....

meta's hard

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek: I am not focused on me

Journeyman Geek

Sure you are

Shadow Wizard

Indeed.

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:23 AM

I also have many things that I don't really agree with some sites' policy, but if that's what the community wants, then I either follow it, or leave the site. Easy.

user1271772

I was using "me" as an example to explain that "Like, suspending the user? It's one way to stop it." is not the solution, which you don't seem to get

Shadow Wizard

But you're not (yet) being abusive to others, so you shouldn't be suspended. @user1271772

Ranting is fine here, letting off some steam.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard within reason ;)

Shadow Wizard

But if you'll keep doing it in posts by edits like "Why is this downvoted???? You're all evil!!1!" then you'll find yourself suspended.

Journeyman Geek

(but I've so far had good experiences with my MSE rants ;) )

user1271772

6:24 AM

@JourneymanGeek ranted about how it's annoying when people complain about the "old guard" and I am trying to explain that if it happens so much, maybe we have to think of a way to stop it from happening in the future.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 I said I feel its annoying.

user1271772

Ok, but are you interested in how to stop it from happening in the future?

Journeyman Geek

But if a new user has a good complaint I agree with, and its unfairly unvoted, I'd happily upvote it, and use whatever ... what's the phrase...

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 we can't stop it.

We can't force people how to think and feel before it even happens.

Journeyman Geek

Personal/community capital I have to help

and well, at this point, I think folks outside SO probably trust my opinion as much as any non employee ;)

So, if you have a good post, and its something I agree with, and its unfairly downvoted, I totally will be putting up a fuss about it.

Magisch

6:27 AM

Terrier-rage

Journeyman Geek

and that's what us high rep, high influence users can do to help newbies ;)

@Magisch maaaan

user1271772

@ShadowWizard: "we can't stop it", I think it's possible to reduce it. There's nothing you can do about the newcomers but there's something you can do about what JourneymanGreek called the "old guard"

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek That's terrier-ble

What would that be?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 We can try to help newbies learn the ropes. but that goes both ways

Now, here's a problem with meta.

Meta is... hard.

I mean, no one really gets meta

Magisch

Meta is a really unforgiving place

Journeyman Geek

6:29 AM

Hell, I think I got the hang of meta, and I don't understand it.

Magisch

compared to main, that is

Journeyman Geek

Meta is as hard as giving a terrier cough syrup.

Somewhat Memorable Name

I want to state in a more direct that Meta is Murder™, but probably that's irrelevant

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Makes you terrier your hair out, eh?

user1271772

There was an abuse of power that happened, in which the question was closed in error extremely quickly. That error was corrected in that the question was re-opened, but by that time there was already so many negative votes, and people here were saying that it's hopeless to get it back. They said they've never seen something come back from that many negative on Meta or Main.

Journeyman Geek

6:31 AM

@Magisch ._.

@user1271772 errr

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 bring it on per-site meta.

Journeyman Geek

Is this on one of the sites?

user1271772

Which per-site meta?

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName no per site meta for MSE

Journeyman Geek

or MSE?

Shadow Wizard

6:31 AM

MSE is its own meta.

user1271772

No it is on the main Meta and that's because it's about something that applies to all SE's

Shadow Wizard

It's weird like that.

Journeyman Geek

ah

Other than dupehammers (and I think the gold badgers know I hate em for most part) one shot closes are uncommon on meta

Somewhat Memorable Name

Oh, I thought you're talking about a question on QC

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 why you bring it up again here and not in the room you created for this purpose?

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:32 AM

Apparently you're talking about your question?

Magisch

If you come in here with the expectation to change year long engrained usage patterns of old regulars you're gonna crash and burn hard

I learned that on mso back when I joined

Shadow Wizard

How did you recover from being crashed and burning hard? @Magisch

user1271772

@ShadowWizard : I asked myself that too, because the chat room I made is more appropriate. But this actually started as a different question about which SE I could go to to find out something about Hong Kong

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard heh, I crashed and burned on skeptics.

Magisch

Adapting to fit in

thinking twice before posting. Trying to gauge the reaction in advance

Journeyman Geek

6:34 AM

You listen, you learn, and you try to do better ;)

user1271772

The other thing is that a lot of people seemed not to want to participate in the other room. They were not answering my questions there, but they were talking about what type of sandwiches they liked here

Magisch

See, people are free to do with their leisure time as they want to

Journeyman Geek

ROFL

Sounds like shog

Magisch

This isn't a job for literally anyone but Shog (of the people involved), and shog is in his weekend (eg free time) spending some time here for funsies

user1271772

I understand that people are free to do what they want, I'm just asking Shadow's question about why I'm talking about it here instead of the room

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:35 AM

And well, I have seen a question on SO from -5 and closed to +16 and reopened with help from the community.

Journeyman Geek

tbh, kinda ironically...

I really don't want to bug/mug staffers here when I know they're hanging out to chill

Shadow Wizard

Maybe instead of recovering @user1271772's question (which isn't possible), @Magisch can give tips to him how to "move on"?

user1271772

I wasn't talking about Shog09, and I'm not going to say the name because they discourage using the name

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard moving on is easy.

You just let go, and move on.

Shadow Wizard

Why you pad Shog's name? @user1271772

user1271772

6:36 AM

Pad?

Magisch

1. Accept that you're gonna eat the crow (invite lots of downvotes) from time to time
2. Stop worrying about it
3. Profit

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek easy for you, but others find it really hard.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard there's no harder way to move on ;)

You let go. You move on ;)

user1271772

@Magisch This is not about the downvotes so much as the sequence of events that occurred.

Shadow Wizard

e.g. see how Sonic can't move on when Shog isn't giving him replies...

Journeyman Geek

6:37 AM

@ShadowWizard ;)

I don't want to name names ;)

Magisch

Unfair isn't it? It's still just some votes

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 you're not going to summon Shog9 without the @

@Magisch and imaginary internet points

Magisch

Votes happen, you haven't been post banned for it so it shouldn't matter too much. The couple of rep you lost on it aren't the end of the world

Journeyman Geek

Often arbitrarily

Magisch

I have to often have to remind myself that votes aren' supposed to be personal and that I can just choose to not care

user1271772

6:39 AM

It is not about my rep, or the votes! I don't like how the high rep users are "getting away with it" when they abuse their power. You said that if people are abusive they will get suspended right?

Journeyman Geek

> I don't like how the high rep users are "getting away with it" when they abuse their power.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 question before that: are they abusive?

user1271772

"There was an abuse of power that happened, in which the question was closed in error extremely quickly. That error was corrected in that the question was re-opened, but by that time there was already so many negative votes, and people here were saying that it's hopeless to get it back. They said they've never seen something come back from that many negative on Meta or Main."

Journeyman Geek

"Abuse their power" != didn't go my way.

Magisch

You keep saying it's an abuse of power

but it's really not. A difference in opinion, more like.

user1271772

6:40 AM

Ok, so you do not think it's an abuse of power?

Somewhat Memorable Name

No.

Magisch

People are free to use their votes (even closevotes!) how they want

user1271772

Alright

Magisch

The "check and balance" that exists is that other users can use their votes as well

user1271772

Hold on, some people can close things without 5 votes.

Journeyman Geek

6:41 AM

Dupehammers and mods

user1271772

Precisely.

Journeyman Geek

Mods are trusted. Many mods actually WISH they didn't have a closehammer.

user1271772

It was marked as a Dupe but it totally wasn'.

wasn't

Journeyman Geek

I think dupehammers are useful, sparingly buuuuut....

user1271772

This was sooooooo far from a Dupe, it's going to take a long time for people to understand

Journeyman Geek

6:42 AM

I don't think I can judge without seeing the post in question

Cause yanno?

user1271772

Because it's so long ago and the question already has so may downvotes and the user that did it has such a high rep, but in the end they admitted it was an error and re-opened it

Somewhat Memorable Name

Is this still about your question on MSE?

Journeyman Geek

This feels like a conversational landmine

Magisch

People with dupehammers are still normal users. They're also free to use their votes as they want. The community can invalidate their decision with 5 votes at any time

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 a dupehammer needs a tag gold badge. Which indicates the user is probably a subject matter expert

gold Tag badges are hard.

I have, one?

Shadow Wizard

6:43 AM

@JourneymanGeek better this way, and @Shog09 won't ping Shog either.

Journeyman Geek

in the most common tag here?

Magisch

gold tag badges need a total of 200 answers in the tag with a total of at least 1000 score

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard or leave out the @ ;)

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 by "padding" I mean adding that "0" to Shog's name.

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek: The first one was this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312300/…

Shadow Wizard

6:43 AM

Shog9 is not the same as Shog09.

user1271772

I didn't know that there is not "0" in the name

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 I downvoted the original question

user1271772

Is there two users with similar name?

Shadow Wizard

it's like I'll call you user0001271772. @user1271772

user1271772

That's like padding a matrix with 0's to make it the same length as a vector

Journeyman Geek

6:44 AM

and it looks like a high rep user did a significant fixup

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 so you should pad all names to have 30 characters.

user1271772

But I was talking about the user that explained to everyone what happened yesterday

"significant fixup" what are you referring to?

Shadow Wizard

Shog9 isn't just a "user", he's SE employee who have full access to everything on all sites.

Journeyman Geek

Look at the edit history ;)

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 "salvage the post"

user1271772

6:45 AM

@JourneymanGeek: I didn't like how she took credit for that.

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek you talk about my edit?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 You don't get SE then

user1271772

She took my own work that I wrote in the comments, and put it in the post

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 huh!?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 and didn't benefit at all from it.

Shadow Wizard

6:45 AM

@user1271772 you mean me? I'm not a "she". :)

Journeyman Geek

She did it cause it was helpful, and well, helped you get out of the hole you'd dug yourself into :)

user1271772

I'm not talking about you

Shadow Wizard

The one in my avatar, well, doesn't even walk yet, so still got few years before she can use SE. :D

Journeyman Geek

If you're unhappy with community editing, and downvotes and mods...

This might not be a great fit for you.

user1271772

But @JourneymanGeek, I did not dig MYSELF into that hole, it was the moderator that closed with with the "hammer" without waiting for the votes!

@JourneymanGeek: I like the SE very much

Hold on, @ShadowWizard, you're confusing it

You have not made an edits on the question we're talking about

you made a, valuable, edit to my other post.

Magisch

6:48 AM

@user1271772 You seem to be under the impression that being closed as a dupe caused your question to recieve downvotes. It did not.

That question was prime "get downvoted into the ground" material before the closure

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 Might want to look and consider the first revision.

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 so what question you talk about now? Thought the one which is at -19 currently.

user1271772

I'm talking about one that is +3

Somewhat Memorable Name

... I really don't know what to say other than "move on and see the brighter thing after she salvaged the question"

user1271772

@Magisch can you explain it to me?

Journeyman Geek

6:49 AM

@ShadowWizard meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312300/…

Magisch

Ahh you mean a different one now

user1271772

"That question was prime "get downvoted into the ground" material before the closure" which question are you talking about?

The first or the second?

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 the first revision looks a lot like the one for recalling a mod.

user1271772

No I have said 3 times in this conversation that I was talking about the first question, and I even provided links to it.

Somewhat Memorable Name

> What can we do if we feel it would be better for the pro tem moderators to be changed? -- 1st revision

Journeyman Geek

6:50 AM

Which is a process we have, though usually when we need to drop a mod things have gone completely wrong

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek: I understand that the second sentence of the first version of the first question was dangerous

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 it also made it a dupe

Magisch

What can we do if we feel it would be better for the pro tem moderators to be changed?

Shadow Wizard

Well, people tend to edit comments into the post body sometimes, it's being helpful. If the author disagree with this, they can just roll back, explain politely to the editor why they did it, and that is it. No need to make so much fuss. @user1271772

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek: At that time, before the downvotes and closure using hammer, the question could have recovered

Magisch

6:51 AM

This right here sounds like the "mod did a meanie" complaints of which there are 10 of a week.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 see... back in the ol days...

we closed questions immediately

Magisch

Those are usually downvoted and forgotten about quickly

Somewhat Memorable Name

The question is now +3 and reopened. It has recovered.

Journeyman Geek

Now we put em on hold. Cause its softer and fuzzier. Like a kitten...

but but...

Closure isn't the end of the world

user1271772

What happened to me was not "on hold" it was outright closed

Journeyman Geek

6:52 AM

Its mechanically the same ;p

you fix issues, you get it reopened.

Heck, I even tell folks you can flag a question after deletion when I do it

Never happens of course :(

user1271772

The thing is, the "what recourse do I have if I don't like a moderator's action" did NOT have the answer to the question I was asking, which is "how often do pro tem mods change" the reason is because I thought it was like a 1-year term like the editorial board for journal of mathematical physics

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 which was completely wrong.

Magisch

@user1271772 The answer to the first is "They don't unless the site graduates or they retire on their own, usually"

Somewhat Memorable Name

@user1271772 because you actually asked 2 questions, and one of them is dupe.

Journeyman Geek

And I gave an example of a mod who chose not to stand post graduation (Hi!)

user1271772

6:53 AM

@Magisch That is the answer that I put, but it got negative votes

Journeyman Geek

and others gave examples of mods who quit

I don't think any mod protems have ever been ousted.

user1271772

"They don't unless the site graduates or they retire on their own, usually" that's literally what I put, which is the correct answer right? But higher rep users came and repeated the same thing and got way more upvotes

Journeyman Geek

Well

their answers are better ;)

user1271772

But anyway, I had already read "what recourse do I have if I don't like a moderator's action" before

Journeyman Geek

Anyway

user1271772

6:55 AM

@JourneymanGeek: Glorfindel's answer was not better

Journeyman Geek

I think we should move on?