@PaulWhite Posting R/A comments should cost rep

There's a FR request for it somewhere IIRC

Downvoting already negatively-score (below -4) post should also probably cost rep

Yeah

plan: wait for Luna to save the query, then steal it and start the crusade.

I didn't say you can't downvote though...

@user5389107 Yeah - where did they find a pup with eyes like that?

but ... but ... almost all -5 or below questions should have not been posted in the first place. When they get deleted, you get your rep back! (just like DVing answer...)

only thing bad on meta is if your question get dv'ed to hell, and someone post an simple answer that get an upvote, your stuck after

kinda why I think ppl dont answer negative score question at first

@PaulWhite Hanging on the edge of tomorrow.....

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ^

@Derpy What?

@hey I've frequently complained about the use of downvotes on meta simply for expressing disagreement, rather than to indicate a bad post.

Unfortunately, my proposal doesn't have to do with meta since it's rep-free

I still have no comment regarding voting system on meta

Unless you meant Meta SE, but Meta SE is an exceptional Meta. Still, no comment about voting system from me personally

@hey Yep, I meant MSE.

@Discretelizard get tired of trying to start a fight :p

@PaulWhite I almost jumped to the roof in agreement, then realized it would be pretty to abuse for high rep users, but yeah... having some kind of "cost" to the user associated with comments is an interesting idea

yeah, something like that ;)

I accidentally a word.

@JourneymanGeek Ah yes, that effect happens at times. Not at all times, mind. For some, any reaction at all is sufficient 'catch' of their bait. But politely answering doe signal others simply not to reply.

Shog mentioned the idea of having 100 comments quota per day per site..

And really bad cases can be simply flagged, of course.

@PaulWhite what is that? :P

well, it's similar with downvotes, having them cost rep makes it harder for the signaling ones to be made in abundancy

@Discretelizard I appreciate your commitment to the username goof in the profile

It's already been attempted

Next time, we can borrow Jon Skeet's rep...

with interests?

@user5389107 What's the value of a silly username if you can't make puns about it? Might as well just use a number otherwise. But thanks for your appreciation, I appreciate it :)

I am having a hard time considering all the aspects of this here.

can't begin to think wether I'm for or against

isn't there already one in SOBotics?

Heat Detector?

That one

@PaulWhite other than that comments can be a force for good.

Heh. Total comments per user?

Is this the time for Heat Detector to shine over Smoke Detector?

You're forced to clean up after yourself

The april that never ended?

RA comments that are valid are not refunded...

@PaulWhite quite

a lazy solution, upvoting the comment that tell it's no longer working, the system will put that comment visible over other

While Shog was probably half-joking about GitHub's Reactions™, an "emoji" for "This is not working" would probably be more visible than 50 comments of grey...

honestly, even a comment that tell it dont work, you can'T be sure, it was the same setup as the op exactly ? an human error ? It's why I like on SO that only the op can mark as answered a question

@PaulWhite yes. very much nicer

such nice

very future

doge has invaded MSE - nothing is safe

doge-ception

reactions on ping sound on Chat.Meta.SE :)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: Your body meets its flourishing by EsthLeep on drupal.SE

(I think there's also a meta post about chat ping sound on MSE too)

@user5389107 not even bots.

I don't think I can let in all that badassery

Am I the only one annoyed/confused by the sudden and unannounced total anonymization/name change of multiple moderators on Stack Overflow? I'm all for the ability to be anonymous and the ability to edit your display name, but I feel like something about that process should be a little different, or at least more transparent, for elected moderators.

maybe not annoyed, but confused for sure.

I guess they don't use the dedicated per-site ping sounds anymore, just the same per server:

...except all rooms on Chat.SE use the bottom one, and the top two are used by the respective servers

I think it's coming from the recent interactions with Twitter, that made people realize that Twitter mobs can be devastating.

Apparently moderators already have a feature where they can hover over a users name (or some function) to see what it used to be... I'm not sure why that feature is not enabled for all users

I'm not sure what you mean. Only one moderator on Stack Overflow currently is anonymized, and that's a bit of a special case.

@TylerH If someone changes their name, usually there's a reason.

@Mithrandir Well, User1114 was a moderator, then anonymized, then suddenly got de-modded (which we don't have to talk about)

@Mithrandir meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367459/… this was the recent one

And I understand there are reasons; like I said I am all for the ability of users (even moderators) to do it. I just think moderators have a duty to be more transparent about it

or the system should make it more transparent

Jeremy was changing his name like daily for a while. He was also a bit of a special case.

because we didn't elect some rando named User1058293, and when we see that they are a moderator, it really confuses/concerns me until I spend time digging through their comment history to find an @ reply to see who it was

@TylerH that's news to me

There's a whole world of history and context between a given person and a moderator and it's really helpful to know if you are talking to John or Susan. If they want to change their name, that's cool. But we should be able to see that somehow, via hover or something, at least for a few weeks

@JourneymanGeek I'm paraphrasing from BOltclock

@TylerH we have a user who changes their name a lot on chat.

We everntually started calling them TOWMN...

(The one with many names)

also there's a way to look up past names but nothing like that

@JourneymanGeek That method is probably what Bolty was referring to

ah

So...

@JourneymanGeek Someone who is Normal has a tool for that...

sometimes people have a good reason to change their names

especially if say they used their real name and had a ... change in circumstances

Ugh, I'm afraid it might backlash...

I had a great weekend so I'm actually prepared for this weeks meltdown

@SterlingArcher did you get a new gun from krieger?

I'm worn out from my day job so... I hope not

SE's mostly may happy place ;p

No he keeps taking the safety off my guns

I can imagine SO as a capital city, MSE as a satellite city, and the rest are normal cities. Currently having a safe haven on another site while SO is revolting :/

The news spread to some cities too, but not so much effect compared to the capital city...

while Tavern is... a tavern.

@hey British Empire

an apt metaphor.

chaos-emerald-pls one-more-close-vote-needed meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309958/… (@Shadow @rene)

When do moderators usually get involved with users who have a high amount of recent comments removed by R/A flags? (saw somewhere, can't remember where though, that they do get involved, but can't find anything on when)

@PaulWhite Noooo! Don't destroy the Chaos Emeralds!

@PrincessLuna This is the best meta I can find meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/317987/…

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username: Zinc oxide reduction in ethanol by Anonymous Teacher on chemistry.SE

@PaulWhite Thanks ^^

@PrincessLuna I would guess it's case-by-case basis

I need them to become Super Sonic!

@PetterFriberg There it is documented too :D I was looking on MSE

Yeah since I want to keep my flags down, I keep myself updated on auto-flags :D

@SmokeDetector no bounty? gasp

@PetterFriberg see also meta.stackexchange.com/questions/203061/…

nice

That one was really hard to search for until I added keywords to it

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309962/…

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Huh. weird. no idea what's going on there

@AdamLear What about this?

same

We used to auto-CW questions... but I thought that'd also show up in revisions

for 3 users ? too bad I dont follow area51, it would had been for 2 users

@bro your profile is still alive ?

(well, iam happy to see you :) i don't mind something negative by my last question, just surprised as yesterday I seen a pic where it was in pending removal)

@bro aw :/

@bro wait, you sound like you find this is a bad thing that board was not created ;)

^

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body: k9-Mail and OpenKeychain Cannot send encrypted e-Mail: by Jörg velletti on android.SE

@Feeds Telkitty's Autonomous car

That's how I feel every time I see a volvo.

@bro aaawwww ....

A volvo?

Steering with hands is so rookie. Steer with a knee, awkwardly angled to hit the clutch so you can shift and eat your giant cheeseburger at the same time while smoking a cigarette

Ah, the american way <3

Yeah, volvos are the safest cars out there. So, naturally, drivers who plan on getting in accidents buy them. As a result, I avoid volvos on the road like the plague.

I have also seen two volvos in trees before on the side of the freeway.

One time I saw a man walking away from a Prius with a gas can on the highway and the irony made me laugh

:)

@SterlingArcher The car is offended by the profiling :p

It's ok because the profile of a prius offends me

Horribly ugly car

Like if you put the hybrid of a prius in an S4 frame I'd buy the crap out of it

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in answer: How do I figure out which platform a SEPTA regional rail arrives at for a particular station? by SEPTA_SOCIAL on travel.SE

> This is Kevin

did anyone else's bs detector went off right there?

wha

hmmm... the irony of speaking with a Kevin when saying that most times we read Kevin online is for some generic person, just occured to me

@JonEricson hinduism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1319/8635

@KevinB was referring to smoke's message just over mine

@JonEricson How to handle users who insist that their view is default?

yeah i was just being silly

@LakshmiNarayanan Default for the site or Hinduism in general? (Or both?)

@JonEricson Let me give you more context: Some users consistently answer a question that allows multiple interpretations with their interpretation, say Advaita. I point this out/request they add a note that it is an answer from advaitic perspective, they refuse saying that it is the correct one, it is default. What can I do in these scenarios that a) depends on moderator intervention and b)without necessitating moderator intervention?

They insist it is default for Hinduism to answer you succinctly

Default as in that is the majority of the religion, or default as in that is the accepted interpretation?

(perhaps the word default isn't fully describing what your intent is)

the claim here is that their view is the standard interpretation.

okay

there is no such concept in Hinduism!

Sorry, not familiar enough to know any nuances in the religion :(

@LakshmiNarayanan without knowing any context, religion is all interpretation

Are they only saying "im right you're wrong this is what it means"?

@LakshmiNarayanan Got it. I think it helps to be specific in the question. Trouble is, askers might not know enough to be specific.

@SterlingArcher worse, it is subversive in that it pushes a particular viewpoint as the one that Hinduism advocates to the lay reader.

it is a bit scary that the user that posted the meta question has been banned. if the moderator in question issued the ban, it's really really scary.

@JonEricson True, which is why I encourage and do practice asking for specific interpretation whenever I post. The question as to what to do as community member when such specificity is lacking in the question is still an open problem right?

@FélixGagnon-Grenier That user is very abusive and tries to incite division I think the ban was fair. Don't know which moderator banned though. And this is not his/her first time.

I see. thanks for the clarification

@LakshmiNarayanan On Christianity, they use the tagging system to help determine which viewpoint the question is coming from. It's a big red flag when the asker doesn't know. (When I used the site, it was often a reason to close the question.)

I think I'll refrain from actually making an idea about this, I miss way too much knowledge about the topic.

@FélixGagnon-Grenier In all fairness, I should say that the moderator being rallied against is from the same spiritual understanding as me AFAIK

admirable of you to disclaim

well, it's only fair.

@JonEricson Half the so called veteran users in my view don't understand what tagging is for!

How to expect questions to be closed in this case if they are not specific?

See, now this is a problem. All we're fighting over on StackOverflow is the "niceness" of comments to new users.

@SterlingArcher I don't think it is scoped only to new users.

!!/whois code_admin

@Mithrandir I hit an error while trying to run that command; run !!/errorlogs for details.

@TravisJ It arguably is mostly scoped around it. It's mostly new users who experience the unwelcomingness, or are the most vocal about it.

As for long time, or at least established, users, we're mostly all trying to figure out what's what, who's saying what, to whom, and stuff like that.

New users produce the largest amount of questions, so you do see it play out there to a larger quantity. That said, it is not the only place it happens. In essence, what we are seeing is meta spilling over into main. #metaismurder

You mean that the interaction of say, meta veterans with people that ask the nth "y no comment on downvote" question, would in effect spill on main on the interactions of veterans with the nth "how do I loop over object properties" question?

who'd have thought ;)

@TravisJ more seriously, I'm not trying to make fun of you, but I'm not sure I understand your #metaismurder here :)

@FélixGagnon-Grenier blog.codinghorror.com/meta-is-murder

@FélixGagnon-Grenier No, I mean that users are bringing meta commentary into the main site, and while some users do it properly, many others who see that as an example do it very poorly.

> Meta-work becomes a reflex, a habit, an addiction, and ultimately a replacement for real productive work. It's something I think everyone should watch out for, whatever walk of life or career you happen to have. In fact, I've come up with a zingy little catch phrase to help people remind themselves, and their coworkers, how toxic this stuff can be -- meta is murder.

making me read it to the end before starting to think about an opinion ;)

I do get some knee jerk reactions, so it's taking some time :)

#metaIsBikeshed could be some variation of this thing, it seems (with which I would not agree)

@TravisJ Yes, it's hard to realize that most people we interact with on main are far from having read a tenth of the literature [about SO] most meta user have read, hence extra care should be had when commenting things that are evident to us

Sure, taking more care may make a small dent. The point was that main doesn't need meta commentary at all.

@Mithrandir can you run any command anywhere? I would expect that one to be tied to CHQ?

@rene Not sure. It's not working on any chat server at the moment, though, sooo

@TravisJ but then, how would we explain to someone why they should add what they've tried to their question? unless you don't mean that when using "meta commentary"?

Explaining to someone that their question probably needs to have the class definition included when it was referenced lower in code and is potentially the problem they are having is a good thing. That isn't meta commentary. Meta commentary would be to simply blank all that constructive material out and go "Welcome to Stack Overflow! We require all questions to have all of their relevant code edited into the question. This question is not a good fit."

If your comment starts with "Welcome to Stack Overflow! We" it should probably be deleted.

I beg to differ ;)

And how did that help the OP?

How did it not?

It didn't accomplish anything except for grandstanding.

Moreover, why would you ever speak for the entire community?

@TravisJ god the irony

more to the ground: what you are doing now is meta

YOU'RE MURDERING

On meta, in the place designed for discussing issues with the site.

Had I done that below your comment on that post, then I would be being a hypocrite.

fair. I take that back.

as for the comment, it's literally trying to get them to show the difficulties they are having

It is barely more than "What have you tried"

> If you don't have the time or inclination to engage in conversation with the author of a post, don't comment - just vote.

Along with an indication of how to use the site and a welcoming message

Now you are literally inventing motives from me.

OP never commented back and I follow up with people

OP would comment if you perhaps put more effort into explaining what you meant.

How is that unclear?

What edit would have helped in that situation?

let me step back here.

I dislike the things you seem to implicitely accuse me of, and I really fail to see how you are not "speaking for everyone" here.

anyway, let's leave that there, I'll digest it for the moment.

okay

Have there been stats for the number of users that cast down votes on a Q/A pair when they also casted a close vote?

Maybe I read to much in it: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367477/…

i'm definitely guilty of downvoting answers to questions i've close voted, particularly those who are answering incomplete questions with guesses, that if clarified in the question, would make the question a duplicate. happens quite often unfortunately. It's not the answerer's fault, and as such i probably shouldn't be, but i don't see a guess as at all useful, and the answer being around and upvoted results in the unclear question never getting deleted in the event it even gets closed.

just an act out of frustration i guess

I don't mind the voting taking place, it is just the direct link that stems from the comment between closer and down voter that trips me off.

It is probably just me.

@rene Not exactly what you're asking for, but Computer Science gets a lot of downvotes that should be closevotes on the blatantly off-topic questions we get hourly to daily. Although I suspect that is mostly due to the fact that there are too few active people with enough rep to actually closevote.

that could explain those down votes, yes. That is moderation within your capabilities

That user is clearly being targeted though, from my observation.

my point was basically people vote for weird reasons, and the number of downvotes being received in this case are so small that it doesn't even begin to overcome the passive rep this user gets daily, I personally wouldn't bother getting anyone else involved in it if it was occuring to me

@KevinB true that

@TravisJ yeah, stepped on some toes probably

So if you were having, within 5 minutes of each other every day, your accepted answers downvoted, and their associated questions also voted for closure, you wouldn't blink?

nope. i lose more rep casting downvotes daily

well... i used to. lately i've been sorta absent since the blog post

more dealing with js chat issues

It is true, you are a prolific downvoter. Still, I have trouble believing that someone so outspoken as yourself would just sit idly by while someone did that without warrant.

have you seen my questions?

No offense, but perhaps you should consider reading Jon Skeets how to ask guide.

lol

even my best questions are negative

i take it as a badge of honor

I basically see my questions as targets for anyone who needs to direct their anger ...

what i get for leaving feedback after "why the downvote"

yeah, that is not an invitation to a conversation

honestly at this point if you don't downvote Kevin's questions it's bad luck

it is more often a declaration of war

that moment when you solve a third party library's mistake :D

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: Where can I find a list of investigational drugs? by MartijnVanAttekum on opendata.SE

@TravisJ ROFL. Most of my SU 'you are doing it wrong' comments start like that.

@JourneymanGeek I mean, I don't disagree that for the most part, they are doing it wrong. Just that the comment rarely alleviates the problem, and only seems to serve as an example for others to do it worse. For example, "this question does not belong here" is a pretty counter productive comment I see, and I know it is inspired by the generic canned comments.

@JourneymanGeek - I just looked at like 20 pages of your comments. You don't really seem to use canned comments like that at all though. I found one.

Well, one fitting the pattern, it didn't look canned (mostly because it had a typo :P)

The auto comments script will automatically add that text if the user has under n rep. :P

I write everything by hand

Um... no you don't. You type it into a computer and it prints out on someone's screen.

:D

:p

Write to screen... typed by hand... its all the same

I just hope they don't try to replace CMs with ai bots...

Overlords... I think you mean Robot Overlords.

@TravisJ @Catija well, I strongly believe that canned comments, while they scale better, lack the personal touch. I do actually really believe that I can afford the 5 minutes or so a day I might spend writing comments myself if it even has a chance of improving someone's experience here :p

Maybe the same reasons I meta?

Just that that takes more time?

@JourneymanGeek Oh, I 100% agree. I don't like them... I have the script but I never use it because I would spend the same amount of time editing the default one as I do just writing it from scratch. I'd probably find it useful for storing links I need, though... but not for full comments.

That too

I'm not a fan of canned comments, but I can understand people wanting them for those who can't be trusted to otherwise leave acceptable comments.

Eh. I've seen a lot of canned comments that aren't particularly nice.

@JourneymanGeek "replace"?