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12:02 AM
Current A.I. systems mostly can not repair themselves, not like intelligent lives created by nature
I have for long advocated this viewpoint of (dis)claiming one's position as so. Yet, there are some who insist the position they state is default and refuse to add in that it's a particular perspective and/or challenge any and all comments asking for the same when asked to do so. What's your suggestion to handle this situation? — LakshmiNarayanan 5 hours ago
@JonEricson Please help out. This is a major problem and threatening the health of the site.
@JonEricson lol. You guys aren't that soulless.yet.
don't blame soldiers for the war, most of the cases it's someone else misjudgment
@TelKitty I actually think the current batch of cm's are a great bunch.
@LakshmiNarayanan I tend to agree. I'm planning on writing another meta post addressing that concern too. But I want to address some private complaints first. Might be a day or two.
12:15 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body: How to allow Authors to upload images via Media Library by Zahidul Amin on wordpress.SE
@JourneymanGeek I agree
@JonEricson Thanks, that should be helpful.
Hope I may ask a question: Anything new about arbitration?
@ThorstenS. Not yet. (Hope we didn't scare off our lawyer. ;-)
I think world would have been better off without lawyers
12:30 AM
@JonEricson I am a bit disappointed. Tim Post said that he would get an update at Monday. Nothing...no messages...no idea what's going on
Maybe they're already bound by the fight club rule?
It feels like the silence before the storm.
Ok, have a good night, need to sleep
I don't think many thing major is going to happen. The next real major event is probably IPO ... or Stackoverflow sold to another company. But given the status of things, IPO is more likely.
@ThorstenS. I don't think there's a storm coming. If there is, someone is really good at keeping secrets.
That wouldn't be surprising from a company that puts arbitration into their TOS :P
12:44 AM
I think there's already a few storms :(
I call it man made accidents
not being sexist, because I am sure it's man who made it and not a woman
@JourneymanGeek after the storm, the sun always come back ! :)
1:03 AM
1:19 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: File name too long mount_nfs by Robert Deboy on serverfault.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of body: Win10 - Permission With Secondary Program by Matt on superuser.com
@TelKitty So... that is actually offensive. And pretty sexist :(
@yagmoth555 kinda true but people are complicated
and there's a few things about recent events that might be worth looking at after the current storms have passed
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: HEAD request leads to file name too long by Robert Deboy on serverfault.com
@JourneymanGeek blame it on the Santa Claus instead!
This costume doesn't seem very appropriate
unless it's just my dirty mind
1:29 AM
hard to believe that your mind can be that dirty ...
Is it supposed to represent a mini-santa standing on the behind of a dog with backward-arms?
If it's just two gnomes holding a present, I'm fine with that. But then the dog head messes up that interpretation.
I think it's just supposed to be a dog-headed elf doing a shared lift with a Santa.
I think Santa's feet are the dog's hind feet.
This costume really messes with my brain
We would like to take this opportunity to remind you that the companion cube cannot speak
2:04 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, username similar to website in answer: Making an electric motor using neodymium magnets? by AdvancedMagnets on physics.SE
2:25 AM
@TelKitty Hah, Comic Sans
I like to hug and squeeze my chickens/roosters, they love it too!
We had a pair of chickens in our yard this morning... we don't have chickens.
I like chickens.
now you do?
Or less bugs
2:42 AM
Any new false dichotomies to be rejected? How about one between pigs and bacon.
@ThorstenS. A storm could be useful if it shakes up the SJW infested upper management of SO.
@bro Ehh
that's not a very nice way to put it
as long as you don't be superfluous, use brain, maybe you can achieve the same with 10% effort
@bro because it's CM that ends up with most of the work ... they are also the ones ended with all the blame
A possible scenario is Sack Overflow 2.0 if Teams product flops.
2:45 AM
@bro Seriously?
step 1. How do I use my brain?
step 2. (see Step 1)
@bro I suspect one of the 'nice' things about channels teams is that it could be used for other things
unlike docs or careers - its still part of the core product.
And yet, it seems mentioning SO TV is kind of... taboo?
@hey learn broader knowledge would be a good start
@bro so, here's the thing. The folks who work at SO are human. Sometimes mistakes happen. Some are bigger than others. Sometimes they get over their head. Does saying stuff like sack overflow 2.0 help anyone at all?
That's not even counting the sheer amount of... stuff happening all at once.
2:54 AM
@bro yeah, so why not dedicate more resources into making sure it is not so
@TelKitty cause a new product is a bet on/against the future
and you can't always throw more resources at stuff
A new product is also a way to earn money... which they need.
ooh. So...
The core SE platform is what they'd call a cash cow
there's pretty much no real space for growth, but its got a great market share.
So you start making it possible for people to have their own version... which is where Enterprise and Teams come in.
Enterprise is too bulky and expensive for small groups.... which is where Teams come in.
If.... a big if... if SE decides to open a site for broader discussion, would it sell?
(and my internet radio stop playing after 1 song ._.)
2:59 AM
Why? It'd have to be somehow vastly different than a discussion forum to make it worth buying.
Just food for thought, whether what the company thinks about expanding their business meets the demands...
in practical sense, that loses out on the competitive advantage that SE has
Doesn't that sort of imply that there is a demand for it? I don't know that there is.
And I don't know why people would buy a SE branded discussion forum when there are so many free ones out there.
The Stack Exchange structure seems kinda crappy for discussion. A forum lets things move from one post to another to another to another - a linear flow. The question/answer format here is more like a radial web, with answers linking to the center but not each other. It seems pretty restrictive - better organized, but more restrictive.
My bad, I chose the wrong words, and probably interpreted "sell" too literally with "broader discussion" = doesn't compute.
3:04 AM
unless you mean something like NPR
which was a flop
@HDE226868 Yep. Threaded formatting works better for discussions.
Let me reword the question: what kind of products do people expect from SE...?
(or SO, for this case)
Q&A. And apparently tech jobs... though I'm not sure how successful Jobs is.
Apparently not super great
and Jobs is a really really crowded market
But, hey, they're hiring a new SRE... so I guess that says something?
3:10 AM
Oh, the azure one?
That's for enterprise.
I think that SO is trying to specialize in jobs in a way that is smart... high-quality, connected... it makes sense... but other sites may have better ways of matching up good candidates.
@Catija I had some input they were pricy but had good matches?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: healthysoulsupplement.com/keto-slim-pro/ by rnakyuiw on apple.SE
Will be there kind of products that will be helpful/demanded on most sites but SO?
Would teams have greater success if SE pimped lent CM out to facilitate sales instead of this superfluous social justice thing and stricter chat rules ...
3:14 AM
we're mostly terrible at sales
please no.
We need the CMs CMing
@JourneymanGeek Dunno... never used it. Not my field :P
jmac was a legit salesman with professional experience and a pretty solid understanding of how to analyze a market and stuff. But, we lost jmac.
We have precious little - and community engagement, to me should be a big focus
@Shog9 :(
3:15 AM
I'm hoping Shog meant "we" as in "the company" not "the CMs".
CMs. We have actual sales people working at the company and as far as I can tell, they're pretty OK at it.
Which is to say, if there's something to sell and someone who wants it, they can facilitate that
Oh, I missed a message.
I'd assume so too
Where we've gotten in the weeds tends to have involved overestimating the market for stuff like Jobs
oh man
@Shog9 that kinda was a trigger for the recentish issues at SE right?
3:18 AM
Jobs is a decent enough product, but there's a limit to how many orgs want it
It's a fairly substantial limit, mind you; Jobs pays for a lot
@Shog9 and tons of competition. And if you do it right, less repeat customers ;p
Probably more than Google product logos.
(happy users, happy orgs)
But happy orgs talk and encourage others to use the products they use.
3:19 AM
Hiring is a weird, weird market
From both ends.
(cough Apply for jobs, nothing happens. Get a random job? People ask if you're interested) ;p
and not weird in that "old long-haired dude who makes junk art" way
@Shog9 totally in that way
Again... I have a feeling the hiring process for devs is significantly different than anything I've done.
Andy told me about an interview he had once and it sounded... intense.
More weird like that "old long-haired dude who says inappropriate things to kids" way
3:21 AM
Seriously; hiring is creepy and abusive to almost everyone involved on some level
Someone mentioned to me at one point that in Germany, you are required to include a photo of yourself in your resume... like a headshot. That'd be so illegal here for anything other than acting/dancing/performing etc.
and that's why SO Jobs can't really scale beyond a certain rate; the competition is more'n willing to absolutely facilitate overt abuse on a scale that is unimaginable.
I refuse to do that ;p
We gotta kinda depend on hiring managers and recruiters who don't want to completely screw their candidates
3:23 AM
@JonEricson's phone will be busy with notifications again. ;)
I've seen a few job postings get brought up on MSE from time to time... so I think I understand what you're saying.
The cultural dimension is a whole 'nother ball of worms
most industries are
@Catija it varies a lot.
TONS of dev jobs are... just jobs. You apply, someone talks to you for a bit, you sign a bunch of paperwork, you collect a reasonable but not terribly impressive salary while doing essentially clerical work.
That's mostly how my job is.
Other than that its not dev, and there's a complex web of subcontracting
3:26 AM
For all the weird-ass crap one hears about in SV, that's a tiny sliver of the industry.
Probably. When Andy interviewed at UT, the people he interviewed with weren't even really devs... they were scientists... and more interested in where he got his degrees and what he majored in, which was hugely different than the other interview I mentioned where he had 5-6 mini interviews, at least some of which were solving programming questions.
But, other than my current job and the one before it, most of my work experience is in retail. All they care about is whether you can play nice with customers and learn how to use their PoS system.
Which is its own set of challenges
I'm going to assume you mean the former... because PoS systems are usually really, really simple to learn.
SV? Sous vide?
silicon valley
Oh. Does that extend up to Seattle?
I have a feeling Amazon and Microsoft follow similar practices.
3:31 AM
no. Seattle is its own thing. Amazon and MS and a bunch of defense contractors have somewhat rigid hiring processes for somewhat more boring reasons.
AWS interviews are a bit of a pain
(and I suspect they already had a canidate selected when I interviewed soooo)
The woman living across from me works for Amazon... I don't remember which team.
@SmokeDetector gone plz
Everything is comparative, how attractive the job is, is relative to the state you are.
@Catija heh, I was trying to do hardware or servers
My job now is 99% .... monitoring with a smattering of helpdesk
I figure I'll work through my contract, then look for something new when its closer to done
3:44 AM
How long is it?
user1114 == Jeremy Banks right?
Hey @user1114 so I was looking at stack.chat again (since Smokey could use an existing asyncio chat lib as a stopgap for me refactoring our own chatcommunicate to do it ourselves) and I noticed that there's several places where you do SQLite queries within a coroutine
Do those block the event loop?
I think SQLite only works with a single thread so maybe you could have one threadpoolexecutor with the DB connection and await futures from it
(you weren't pingable in CHQ unfortunately so I tried here instead)
@quartata yup
4:12 AM
Finally, the ToS post is now incurring Tim Post a rep penalty
That seems... a bit vindictive? Is there a reason that you feel like Tim should be punished for it?
Just a statement of fact...people are downvoting it very fast
Yet, Tim wouldn't care about rep at all...
Saying "finally" isn't a statement of fact. It's a judgement.
They did what they have to do, regardless of rep penalty or not
4:15 AM
It has more to do with the rep league. I'll have an easier time getting past him because of the downvotes he's receiving on that post.
Want to elaborate on that? An awful lot of ways to read that.
I'm directly below him, at 4,307 rep this year compared to his 4,961. He lost more than half of his earned rep to downvotes on that post yesterday, and three days ago he earned a mere net 6 rep. Which means if I continue my patterns I'll get past him sooner
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Sounds like you should be happy about your successes and not excited about someone else's failures, particularly when those failures are out of his control. Someone had to intro the new ToS... I'm sorry, it just looks really petty and mean, even if that's not how you intend it.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog This shouldn't be my concern, but I'm really worried your directness and bluntness could get you in troubles in the future...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog dude. That's a terrible attitude.
Its not a zero sum game.
4:23 AM
Okay, okay, I understand.
@Catija If I may ask, how did the rainstorm on Friday affect your garden?
It's pretty normal to do the math on that kind of thing ;) The site is built on a competitive base; it invites a certain amount of competition. Keeping it all in perspective is the fun part.
@Undo eh, I compete with one person ;p
@JourneymanGeek waffles
naw, me ;p
Honorable, but it's kinda human nature to compete with whomever is directly ahead.
4:27 AM
It enjoyed the rain?
@Undo In JG's case, that's just Shog... so that's an unlikely battle to win. :D
Well, the best thing is to compete with your past...
@Catija actually, the current big topics arn't good for me, repwise
but but
These are things we need to deal with.
Yeah, I haven't found much to add to the conversation, either... Monica's totally kicking my tuchus.
man, ya
But she's one of those folks who really gets the community and is super helpful
Yep... I feel like she was less on MSE for a bit... but maybe I just missed it somewhat.
4:30 AM
oh she's in a lot of places?
Now I see her all over but in April, not as much.
Maybe busy?
Dunno, maybe I'm just missing it... she was in fifth for April...
Also my primary goal on MSE is ... and this probably sounds super trite, is actually to try to help folks. Especially now
(with me sticking my nose at MSO too ;p)
I'm starting to get why there's a certain resistance to change on SE.
4:34 AM
People think being nice would involve having to change policy, such as not downvoting or close-voting posts. However, all it does is involve a change of tone.
And speaking of removing "thanks" from posts, I carefully read the MSE post about it, and it doesn't actually say that "thanks" should be removed from posts; if people use that post to justify it, that's not actually a valid justification.
Writing a post and I have a little nigging feeling at the back of my mind its a bad idea
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog we remove salutations
Ergh... I saw a user getting network suspended for 28 years
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog being nice is being nice.
But, hey, I'm already over half way to my total rep for last year... that's not bad for the beginning of May. I can slack off for a couple of months and still get more for the year. :P
Its about good sportsmanship and concern for others ;p
if someone plays fair and does better than me, its a win
4:37 AM
@hey When?
@hey Perhaps it is due to sock puppetry.
The top four answers only address greetings, salutations, and signatures. The top fifth answer says not to remove "thanks".
Happens occasionally. Anything over three years or so is "go away, please" for various reasons
But why 28 years... that seems like a strange number.
9999 days
@Catija could have been 30 then -2
@Catija I just noticed it now, I guess a contributor on IPS
@Undo ... oh, that would imply (if four digits are max) that they were really done with that user...
@hey Yeah. I know who it is. I was trying to figure out how you saw it.
4:40 AM
odd that its a suspension over a nuke.
I don't know that they do that.
@Catija well, those tend to be special cases.
but more typically a decade
@Catija sorry, didn't really understand "figure out how you saw it". If it's how I noticed it... well, I was browsing Meta Workplace looking for the continuation on election, then noticed a familiar user with 1-rep...
Nothing to apologize for... I should be asleep.
Are users penalized for constantly flagging answers that don't need to be flagged?
4:49 AM
@TravisJ They get banned from flagging
not directly/automatically
If the flags are declined, they can get flag banned.
oh yes
flag bans
It's a matter of percentage, though.
As in if the flags end up being marked as "Looks Okay"?
4:50 AM
LQP queue?
@TravisJ If it's LQP, there's no penalty, because they're marked "disputed".
Do mods never see disputed flags?
Or, rather, is it possible for flags to be so disputed mods never see them?
I don't think disputed counts towards flag bans.
LQP queue flags are on a time delay for mods. We don't see them for the first... hour, I think?
@Catija 15 minutes on most sites, 60 minutes on SO only, and no delay on meta sites
4:52 AM
That... doesn't seem like enough of a delay to be of any benefit.
I mean, the team was historically loath to mark flags declined by the community; they made an exception for recommend closure flags since those are never seen by moderators
Shouldn't it be a Topaz based on the golden color? :P
(FYI: the reason I started putting the pings last is to better imply that the requests aren't just for those users, but that others can also cast close-as-dupe votes).
We already have a term for it... "Dupe hammer"... I'm still not sure why we need a second one... particularly one that has to be explained since no one knows what it means.
I've said this a few times ;p
4:57 AM
I thought I explained it a long time back.
I don't mind, I just forget what the chaos-emerald reference is from time to time apparently
I could also preface those requests with [cv-pls] if you guys want
imo don't bother, but that's just me, I has no emerald atm
or maybe
I erm
think we're sometimes overeager with those
54 answers short :(
4:59 AM
I'm fine with closing super-off topic things
Sorry if that was confusing, I meant don't bother changing what you call it.
I think its worth remembering our goal over trying to overzealously focus on curation.
when our powers combine?
(too 90's?)
5:01 AM
i'd love that
Oh, totally related. I found this link yesterday.
Bask in teh glory
hrm, close.
(i give up)
5:10 AM
@Catija We were talking about this a lot earlier...it looks like another state signed the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact
It only supported the first 4 =/
so close tho
I thought sending it with a unicode escape would make it past the renderizer
[tag:!-pls] doesn't work either. I think only characters that are valid in actual tag names (alphanumeric + small subset of symbols) will tag-ify.
5:24 AM
The cutoff is unicode 2000
This is as close as I got:
5:47 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeated URL at end of long post: How to Register on Binance by dupamor on bitcoin.SE
I have an etiquette question: I had a question downvoted, but it got an answer that I thought was helpful. Should I remove the question or let it be?
@sitnaltax I'd leave the question. It and its answer could be useful to other users. (By the way, you'll get +2 rep if you accept the answer.)
OK, thank you
6:05 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Sounds interesting, what is it?
@user5389107 You familiar with the U.S. electoral college system for electing the President of the United States?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yes, that's why it sounds interesting to me
It's an agreement across states that (once signed by states representing 270+ electoral votes) would make those states' votes go toward the candidate that won the popular vote.
This way, the president would be elected by popular vote.
Can they actually do it that way?
Sounds like the republicans would be very interested in pre-empting or prohibiting that
Nothing happens until states representing 270+ votes actually sign it. Until then, all states continue the status quo.
6:16 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog So would in essence states representing 270 votes be able to Mandate an effective end to the electoral college system for all the other states?
Sounds like it'd be struck down by the supreme court
@user5389107 Yes
@user5389107 No, it wouldn't. It just says that the president is elected by electoral votes. It doesn't specify how states are supposed to choose their electoral votes.
In fact, two states don't use the same method as the others.
The traditional argument in favor of the electoral college is that it offers protection for population-sparse states (traditionally republican) from being entirely governed by the population-rich northern states.
And that if the candidates didn't need their votes, the population sparse southern states would become irrelevant in the process and candidates would try and exclusively cater to the population centers
6:31 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: how to join "IF FOR batch" with "FOR DELIMS batch"? by Hân Gia on superuser.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: How play 3D movies on PC (Windows) by mocikun on superuser.com
6:48 AM
I wonder if it would be beneficial to have a flag ban like mechanic for comments
So if X% of your comments in the last week were deleted with r/a flags on them, you'd see a warning when trying to comment and at Y% you'd be unable to comment until the week had rolled over
Comment bans and/or revoking the comment everywhere privilege for a time are interesting proposals.
This warning would be in the way of positive reinforcement
Too many proposals on comment moderation until I can't remember whether if it has been proposed or not @_@
Which kinda tells its own story :)
6:59 AM
!!/blacklist-keyword brorsoft
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog That pattern looks like it's already caught by Bad keyword in answer and Bad keyword in body; append -force if you really want to do that.
7:13 AM
@user5389107 it's been asked
@JourneymanGeek linky?
@user5389107 like this? meta.stackexchange.com/q/309321
7:31 AM
Lol. @user5389107 it comes up a lot
Soon, we will have a canonical MSE post for comment meowderation feature requests and the rest can be dupe-vote to it
7:48 AM
yeah there's heaps of them
8:13 AM
(not inlining on purpose)
8:34 AM
I think the comment is deleted?
1 hour later…
9:47 AM
@JourneymanGeek Can you please explain why you think my idea is a bad idea?
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