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12:00 AM
(of course, at least two of those steps are "submit a ticket to IT if your access is rejected")
@Ano neither one of those was your question
tl;dr: the template chosen does affect the public reason. But moderators cannot readily choose a template based on the public reason, and generally don't try.
@Shog9 Yes it was, just for the record:
12 hours ago, by Ano
@ShadowWizard I believe the template mods use when sending the mod message that comes with the suspension also dictates the public suspension reason. Whoever suspended that guy probably thought the template attached to the "rule violations" public reason was a better fit, and so the public reason is shown as "rule violations".
Also, sufficiently-clever moderators can provide whatever public reason / private message combination they wish to have.
So you'd need someone motivated enough to make more work for themselves just to create a banner that likely no one reads... But not quite motivated enough to just fake the request and pick the banner.
@Shog9 Yeah, if I were a mod suspending a user, I'd choose one, copy the template, choose another, delete the other template, paste in the one I copied from the first template, and fill it in.
But it really messes up the diamond notifications.
I would just pick whatever template fit and not worry about the rest of it.
Half the time I just delete the template and type "knock it off" anyway
12:04 AM
I have a google doc with my own templates.
Q: Does unaccepting violate site rules?

alexolutA few days ago, I unaccepted a lot of answers to my questions just to test if I could exceed the reputation cap by accepting more than 100 answers on the next day. But I couldn't ... because of suspension. A moderator decided to put me in the penalty box for three days with the reason "rule viola...

That user took his public reason very literally, @Shog9. But it wasn't a role he violated, just common sense.
> Dearest user19857342728,

You know what you did,
-the people who also know you did it
@Shog9 "Two, there are more suspension reasons than those in the top answer ("rule violations" and "plagiarism"); can that be updated?"
@Shog9 Can you explain why not?
12:06 AM
I'm lazy and don't see the point
@Shog9 Is the current list of suspension reasons considered private information?
it's considered subject to change
@Shog9 What is the current list?
I don't have it handy
@Shog9 Anyway, what do you think about this? I imagine the mods have already tried to talk to you about the issue here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/306694/…
12:11 AM
There's zero point in trying to maintain a public list. The only people who can use these templates are moderators, who have a list already; they can also write their own and modify the default templates at will - there's neither a guarantee that you'll ever get a default template nor any value in generating complaints from people who get a customized one and can't find fault in the actual wording beyond the fact that a moderator modified it.
Finally... There's a big ol' pile of translations for these, which I'm definitely not trying to list.
(though that does suggest you could get the full list if you wanted to spend lots of time in Transifex)
@Ano I'm not sure that really makes the situation any less weird
@Shog9 ?
The point of a bounty is to exchange reputation for publicity
clearly, a deleted question isn't getting any publicity
@Shog9 Did you take a look at the comments on the MSO question?
the answer retains the reputation because of the rules regarding reputation retention and deletion, which was intentionally chosen to compensate folks losing answers that had been on the site and well-received for a long time
So we kinda need to decide which problem we're trying to solve here
> Finally, while this issue can be resolved by also excluding bounty rep changes from the statute of limitations for answers, I think it's fair to keep them included because, as I said, such deletions are usually unrelated to the quality of the answers themselves.
12:16 AM
52 secs ago, by Shog9
So we kinda need to decide which problem we're trying to solve here
That's really a very important step
@Shog9 Isn't that quote related?
We can play "what arbitrary changes seem reasonable" all day long. Doesn't mean we should go making arbitrary changes.
@Shog9 aka people got mad after the great rep recalc if I remember correctly? After a while you realize everything all has a long and twisty history...
@hichris123 right. For almost four years, most folks never lost any reputation when something was deleted. Then suddenly, everyone lost reputation when something was deleted, or if something had ever been deleted.
I would have to agree with @MartijnPieters here.. If bounty is not removed from recipient then it makes no sense to give back to asker — Suraj Rao 11 hours ago
12:19 AM
I don't really have a strong feeling about this. Everything connected to bounties is ugly in some way.
If there's a problem, we should figure out which strategy will fix it without causing more problems.
I would phrase that request as a bug, but since the question I linked at the top is tagged as by design, I phrased it as a feature request.
@Shog9 How will my proposed solution cause more problems?
Yeah, refunding a completed bounty seems weird.
@Ano recalc, and thus meta activity
On the other hand, I hesitate to add any more complexity to an already incredibly complex system.
I also don't have high hopes the achievements widgets will be useful to tell you where your rep went
12:22 AM
@JohnDvorak Why not make this not apply retroactively?
@AdamLear How complex could it possibly be? ;-P
Any code change can blow up. Even a capitalization bug fix.
> Without this, you can have two copies of the same rep that the bounty owner spent initially and awarded, with one copy refunded due to the question being deleted, and the other kept by the awardee due to the statute of limitations.

> There are many reasons why this should be done. First, this has a very high potential for abuse. The bounty rep is now doubled in the system, and the rest is obvious.
@Ano Absolutely not. We're not adding (more) obscure special cases. And having any rep calc change not apply retroactively basically requires rewriting how rep calcs work altogether.
There's a reason they don't like fixing pulrality bugs...
12:23 AM
@Catija The bigger pain point there is translations. :)
@Catija plurality?
Q: "Added 1 comments" in moderator flag queue

GlorfindelA picture with freehand circle says more than a thousand wordS: (names have been covered to protect the innocent)

Czech language has a special case for 2-4 items
@JohnDvorak Hence the freeze on new localized sites
@AdamLear Yeah, I've seen the ones that alexolut posts ... often.
12:24 AM
most translation systems have no idea how to handle that
I don't think there's a Czech version of the site, though?
Plus, there's a special case within the special case for 2+ items if they form a pair of organs
@Catija If there were to be
1 min ago, by Ano
@JohnDvorak Hence the freeze on new localized sites
I have to re-read the code (I looked at it earlier today, actually, and already forgot how half of it works), but IIRC the problem with bounty refunds is a rep calc for a given user does only (and IMO realistically speaking can only) look at the events that happened to that user. There's no sane way to really consider the "well, there was an answer with a bounty here, but that user gets to keep the bounty, so we're not gonna make this change apply here"
Wait, is there a Czech SO in the making?
12:26 AM
@JohnDvorak eh, we have that
@Ano I'm pretty sure that a lot of that's due to issues of moderation...
Russian has more special cases for numbers
And of course, genderized numbers
> When we first announced Stack Exchange 2.0, we didn't have the awkward problem of having only one person in the company that could even read certain sites, much less help guide them through their very critical early stages. We don't consider this an acceptable problem to have for the longer term, but there's a limit to how fast we can hire and grow responsibly.
@AdamLear Why not just include bounty rep changes in the statute of limitations from questions, as they are for answers?
12:27 AM
@JohnDvorak No.
There will still be one edge case: if the question does not meet it but the answer does, but this should resolve most such cases.
> Second, it doesn't make sense to me why rep changes from bounties are included in the statute of limitations for answers, yet excluded in the same for questions. It would make sense to have them both included, or both excluded.
13 mins ago, by Shog9
the answer retains the reputation because of the rules regarding reputation retention and deletion, which was intentionally chosen to compensate folks losing answers that had been on the site and well-received for a long time
On that note, it's way later than I thought it was, so it's time to head home. Later all
@AdamLear Questions also have the statute of limitations, as pointed out by a mod comment. Why not just include bounty rep changes in that for questions? This would not involve changing anything for answers.
Oh boy. It seems Czech is quite tame in that respect.
12:31 AM
Oh yeah, there's another wrinkle to this too: migrations don't preserve bounties, even if the rules for rep preservation would otherwise apply. So if you delete an old, +3 answer that earned a bounty... The author keeps that bounty amount. If you migrate it, the author loses it (but then whoever offered the bounty gets it back in ~30 days when the stub is deleted)
Anyway, who wants to make this a lot more complex just for the heck of it. Show of hands!
But by definition, migrations happen before the 60 day cutoff for rep changes anyway?
@Catija no
@Shog9 I really don't care whose hands the rep falls in, I just don't want a case where two copies of the same rep falls into two different users' hands
that's usually how it works, for reasons that should be plenty obvious from the rest of this conversation. But that's not enforced for everyone, nor in every context, nor has it always been true for anyone.
12:33 AM
@Shog9 Also, any migration performed after 60 days would be by an employee
Proposal: reimplement reputation on top of a cryptocurrency system
I mean, I migrated a whole pile of old questions from MTV to SFF just yesterday.
@Shog9 you did... but regular users and mods can't...
And there were... What, 5-6 years of Stack Overflow <-> [other] migrations before that rule was put in place
But those are pretty damn rare now.
12:35 AM
@Catija Yep, that's what I'm saying.
@Ano Your entire request is pretty rare... so ...
@Catija Did you read the MSO post and its comments?
Q: How a user received 1000 reputation for a removed post?

P P PI see a user who scored 1020 reputation in this week, so when checked his reputation tab I see there is a strange reputation entry in that. He received +1000 for a removed post. I thought he may offered 1000 reputation bounty for a post, due to the post was removed the reputation back to the us...

8 mins ago, by Ano
> Second, it doesn't make sense to me why rep changes from bounties are included in the statute of limitations for answers, yet excluded in the same for questions. It would make sense to have them both included, or both excluded.
@Shog9 Can you also clearly explain to me and Martijn Pieters why refunding the bounty on deletion is an intentional and by-design feature?
@Ano Doesn't really make it not rare?
@Catija Now that I've publicly reported the flaw, people are going to start abusing it.
@Ano again, I don't feel strongly about this. But I also don't particularly want to screw with it unless it fixes a concrete problem
12:39 AM
@Ano By putting bounties on questions, awarding them, waiting 60 days and convincing the community to somehow delete them?
I mean, there's an easy solution, right? Don't delete questions that had bounties.
How is that abusable?
A great thing about Meta is getting direct answers from those running the sites.
It's a good question, Brent. — Community ♦ Jan 19 at 22:36
But who is Brent? A pop culture reference I'm missing?
12:40 AM
They're good references, Bront
@Catija Yep, and then you can award that duplicate rep back to yourself
@Shog9 In addition to explaining the above, it would be very nice if you commented on my question and the MSO one.
@Ano That's just crazy. How do you convince a community to delete something that they didn't close/delete before the bounty was posted or in the 60 days after it?
@Catija Ask a mildly off-topic question about an obscure topic. Once the bounty is in place, it cannot be close-voted. After the bounty and the 60-day threshold of age expires, VTC or RC flag the question, using one of your socks to comment why it's off-topic, and others will follow on.
On SO you could use a sock to post a request onto SOCVR, then argue it should be deleted
@Ano I'll think about it. Kinda want to hear from Adam as to whether this is even intended behavior first.
As I see it, there are pitfalls no matter how we handle this.
@Shog9 You could also ask Nick Craver; he was the one who tagged it as by design.
12:44 AM
I could ask lots of people. I did ask Adam
@Shog9 Two is not lots.
3 is lots. 4 is many
41 secs ago, by Ano
@Shog9 Two is not lots.
Yes... because there are only two devs in the entire staff at SO...
@Catija No, it's because "he was the one who tagged it as by design".
12:47 AM
Nick & Adam just finished a multi-month project involving tons of work on the reputation system. I figure they're probably the most familiar with that logic right now.
I have confidence this is in good hands and plenty to keep me busy in the meantime.
@Ano That doesn't mean that he's the only one who knows what's going on.
We're done talking about this particular matter for the evening, in case that wasn't clear BTW.
1 min ago, by Shog9
Nick & Adam just finished a multi-month project involving tons of work on the reputation system. I figure they're probably the most familiar with that logic right now.
@Shog9 I understood that. That deleted message was just my pressing the wrong key.
@Shog9 But yeah, it would be very nice if you commented on my post and the MSO one to say that you are verifying it with them.
1:04 AM
Q: Truncating post title in search results?

alexolutWhat is the reason to truncate the post title in the search results? Seems there is a bug in width calculation to fit title into single line. But this is just my speculation. Hence not tagged as bug yet.

@Shog9 Can you explain this, please?
Why not just....wait for an answer? Isn't that why we have MSE?
(I know I'm not in here often, but I just popped in and it seems like you're trying to circumvent a system that is in place and works for a reason....)
(mind you, like I said, long time lurker first time caller so maybe I'm missing some sort of secret Bat signal allowance or some such)
1:42 AM
Did the user who was awarded the bounties lose 1k?
@Mazura No; the two users who were each awarded 500 rep got to keep it.
1 hour later…
2:52 AM
10 meta questions vs 40 main site questions: clearly, Constructed Languages is an inside job (a proposal built around existing SE users).
OTOH, constructed languages are pretty meta to start with
I have to assume that they'll eventually devise their own language purely for use on meta, and the main site will become then a place to ask questions about how to ask your question on meta about a problem you had with your original question on main.
3:09 AM
I think there's too many layers of meta there for me to brain tonight.
3:36 AM
Or they will become a Star Trek fan club.
Maybe LOTR too.
It's like the war between the Sci-Fi and Fantasy people... who can fill the site with more content, sooner.
4:26 AM
@Ash cause apparently its not good enough.

Poker StarsI am a high rep user on Stack Overflow (over 220 bonus points and 3 orange medals) and have a great idea - PLAY POKER FOR REP! That would be more fun that answering questions that are mostly homework anyway on Stack Overflow or generally not useful. You can probably find a PHP script somewhere so...

On one hand, I want to close it. On the other, it is a FR, but a terrible one.
@JourneymanGeek Eh, that's why you write an answer.
@Catija or DV it, and throw it to the wolves chat users ;p
I posted it in Charcoal already.
spam flag misuse :(
I kinda was hoping we'd get a [status-rejected] on it
rejected? or declined?
4:35 AM
not a spam flag; I used "rude/abusive", which it was
whichever seemed appropriate
it seemed vaguely polite. ;p but I suppose that works
Is there some back story? Because I didn't see the R/A.
@Catija I think its a "its a waste of our time, so its abusive" R/A
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 4 mins ago, by iBug
Actually abusive could be a better flag.
4:37 AM
valid - and just as good as a mod-delete
I'm wondering how you'd make a spinning cylinder with just one line of text
> I am a high rep user on Stack Overflow (over 220 bonus points and 3 orange medals)
famous last word
I suppose more than me ;p
I think I have 103 on SO.
4:45 AM
@Catija 103? Rep?
Seems the user was nuked... so it's really their last word...
I have 193
2.5k here
"User had a story"
4:47 AM
mostly from one answer (which required 0 programming chops and awesome manual fuzzing skills) and a bunch of "I came across it and it bothered me" edits
On the subject of personal stats, I have cast more delete votes on SO than I posted answers.
(the joke is I'm hardly on SO or MSO ._.)
@JourneymanGeek You're a super user rather than a programmer. :P
@AJ I have somewhat different interests, ya
Fortunately, it seems some people check the "recent delete votes" page, so they don't all immediately sink into nothingness.
4:50 AM
Delete-voting on math was like clapping with one hand ... which is tied behind your back.
I mean, you cast a del-vote, and .... nothing. ever. happens.
Oh. Del votes on IPS flow like torrential waterfalls.
On SO, a couple of other votes sometimes follow, because of the aforementioned page. But the page scrolls super fast.
So it's a lottery: will anyone see it before it's pushed out by other delvotes.
4:52 AM
Del votes on Anime.SE.... do other high-rep regulars regularly check the /mod tools..?
I doubt it... probably depends on the user.
Is Anime more of one-handed clapping site?
Most people don't even know the tools tab exists. It's one of my favorite things on any 10K site.
@SensibleAlexander I do.
4:57 AM
TIL: Constructed Languages's favicon is "art"
though Arts & Crafts's favicon is "a&c"
Is giving two spaces before starting a new sentence in a paragraph a common valid thing in English?
@SensibleAlexander That's because A&C is crafts.se They focus the urls on the crafts part not the arts part.
A: Is the icon for this site supposed to be "art"?

Robert Cartainoart — the ISO 639-5 code for constructed languages and prefix code for conlangs not assigned a code. ref. List of ISO 639-5 codes

5:32 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: Does constipation darkens your stool colour? by Subho Das on meta.SE
@AJ There are less common ways to deal with sentence breaks, that's for sure.
5:50 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: What advantages do "alt-coins" have over bitcoin? by Mk_happyhindi on bitcoin.SE
6:16 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: Customized Home Appliances Prototype by gkgk21v on codereview.SE
@SmokeDetector tpu-
1 hour later…
7:18 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: pool house modern design by gkgk21v on codereview.SE
7:59 AM
@Shog9 won't happen, people love to delete stuff on SO.
Even questions with score of 1000 are at risk of being deleted by SO users just because they are no longer on topic.
But glad to see we think exactly the same way about the bounty being refunded when the question is deleted. :)
8:25 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Why does RoboCopy create a hidden system folder? by dannydan on serverfault.com
8:48 AM
@JourneymanGeek new April fool egg spotted!
That said, poker is too simple. I want a full SE collectible cards game.
> I summon you! Go, White Eyes @bluefeet
@Ash yeah Shog appears to be fine with @Ano pings, otherwise he would have said something. Others keep being bothered on Shog's behalf, but he's a grown up man, don't think we should protect him. :)
So as long as it's limited to Shog, it's fine IMO.
Newbie used Rant on Meta. It's not very effective.
Using at ano pings Shog?
@TravisJ No, me
8:59 AM
I must have misunderstood
Can you even get confused by attacking?
lol, stupid broken link, there is a jeff atwood there... it was supposed to link to his bio
@Derpy closest we might have is a board game, as Jon Skeet himself suggested.
Q: Would you play a Stack Overflow board game?

Jon SkeetI've just been alerted to a company which produces board games - you design the game, artwork 'n all, and upload the assets to them. They produce the game and sell it in their store, taking half the profits. I'm a big board game fan (1), and would love to help design a board game around Stack Ov...

9:11 AM
@TravisJ rogue squadron?
Somewhere in all of this is a Stack Exchange moderator version of pokemon in jsfiddle I wrote a long time ago. Can't seem to locate it.
@ShadowWizard Was kind of going for a light side versus dark side thing.
Why questions are dark?
!!/find @TravisJ's jsfiddle
@ShadowWizard No such command 'find'.
!!/ test
smart enough to ignore empty command. :)
Why questions are the dark side? Because Make Upvoters to realize.
(that was a real title)
9:15 AM
So that we can be considered the good guys. The not-Nazi.
Would you rather be sand or pearl? :P
@ShadowWizard Found it, it was from chat a long time ago. SE Moderator Pokemon
The moderator list is from a long time ago though.
Last time I heard Anime.SE community wanted to create a game, but then there were none...
@TravisJ heh, why not use the API to make it always up to date? :)
9:30 AM
@ShadowWizard I must have spent like 10 minutes making that.
oh lol
I think I just used a jquery selector on the company page and json.stringify to make the array
10:14 AM
@TelautonomousKitty see you then xo
10:30 AM
@YvetteColomb :D
11:01 AM
@SensibleAlexander you could still apply for one of the open positions at Legends of Equestria...
That actually exists? :D
@RougetheBat it exists and should be still running, despite various hacking attempts (and some minor - possibly Russian - communities trying to steal the game in order to create private servers...)
because you know, you just have to hack a fan made online free to play game.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: How to check if an address is valid in Bitcoin Cash? by Pengin on bitcoin.SE
11:37 AM
12:00 PM
@Derpy of course, to put on your own server and take money for playing it, or injecting ads. That's how evil hackers make a living.
@Derpy umm... site is down, getting Cloud Flare error, same as we used to get on SE lots of times when they used it.
(until SE ditched that borked host.)
So guess those Russian hackers succeeded in their attack. :/
12:20 PM
@ShadowWizard I don't really think SE's CF issues were entirely due to hacking no?
@JourneymanGeek of course, just sign of bad host.
Before using it and after using it they had much less down time.
@ShadowWizard tempted to argue SE's a bit of a interesting case - but ehhh, maybe
So being bad, it's not surprising it can be easily hacked.
that feels like a gross generalisation.
@ShadowWizard It's cloudflare, you get what you pay. Probably less than what you pay.
12:31 PM
@Derpy exactly
@ShadowWizard they want to put on their MLP rpg private server to make money out of it?
Seems a very smart plan...
@Derpy maybe they have no idea what it's about.... they just see free MMORPG, and try to make money out of it.
@ShadowWizard naaah. Seems more like they want to have private russian only servers, the staff replied that currently they don't have the cash resources to host language specific servers and so they resorted to thievery.
12:36 PM
based on some discussion I had with the staff they received offers to host the game on some private servers but refused because the host would then get the game server resources but offer no development support. Since they have put years in game programming, writing and 3d modeling they refused.
So, some of the "I want my private server" users seems to have moved to the next step : steal / emulate the game servers
That said, they had a mayor hacking incident some time ago, someone managed to break in their forums and steal some passwords. That is why now they have switched their security infrastructure.
also, based on my observation, there seems to be two kinds of attacks:
the ones that want to steal the game source files and the one that want to create problems to the game in order to have it shut down "because ponies"
"because ponies" can be a reason for a good many things.
so, all the fun of fighting thieves and all the fun of fighting haters.
With their beedy eyes, and orange beaks....
wait, that's ducks. Never mind
12:41 PM
dude. One does not make eye contact with a duck.
Well... that explains my incident of yesterweek's
You survived! That's impressive
Duck? Duck!
12:44 PM
yeah noticed it now inside a HNQ body, went "huh?!" and found the source.... :/
ah lol
> I need to perform cumcount.
12:52 PM
I wonder why it got HNQ.... ;p
Out of context it.... weird.... ^^^
as are many things.
@JourneymanGeek mix popular library which is probably on the rise with easy question... get HNQ.
12:54 PM
Same way almost every Game of Thrones or Star Wars question becomes HNQ when a new movie is published.
or falcon heavy questions ;p
Starman... lol
That Musk guy is ultra genius, no doubt.
Are we stuck in yup loop?
it's viral! Den is also infected! :D
in Shadow's Den, 21 secs ago, by Shadow Wizard
@RougetheBat yup
@ShadowWizard yup
1:04 PM
@ShadowWizard soon, you will start talking like Big Mac. Only using "E-yup" and "Nope"
@Derpy Nope
@Derpy Nope
Dang forgot that sock can only chat in SE, not MSE. </nope-train>
Why you vote with "-" ???? help me or go sleep ! — Adel El Ouali 2 mins ago
This should be added to "Hilarious Comments" hall of fame or something.
1:21 PM
@ShadowWizard And "Hilarious Answers"
nah, the answer is lame.
Go to sleep is special, think it's the first time I see such a suggestion. ;)
Welcome to the Tavern, @the4kman! Take a beer for your first visit.... :D
@ShadowWizard No such command 'beer'.
buh useless barbot.
@ShadowWizard I've put that question to sleep. Like old yeller.
1:43 PM
@ShadowWizard hey! nice to be here
@the4kman good!
If you want to play with bots (and people ;)) come over to the Den... :P @the4
2:06 PM
@ShadowWizard too late
2:22 PM
@Feeds you meant, "choosing the right... character name?"
2:52 PM
Is this a typo?
Are you saying she's a monger?
Your guess is as good as mine ...
I'd better not comment after reading the definition of "manger"...
Not sure, English is not my native tongue.
Her twitter says she is a manager :) So, yes, it's a typo. Should I report it as a [bug]? :-D
original link for fix // cc @AdamLear
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

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