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12:02 AM
I am trying to search for Evan's posts but I assume whatever got him banned is probably deleted so I'll need to wait to hear the gossip from him.
I haven't been able to find said posts either.
I want to vote for Evan.
I think he would represent me better than average.
@SomethingBadHappened What about me?
I am uncertain but the probability is increasing.
A: It's a Longshot, but

user3637Sorry I guess this was a mistake I don't know how to delete it can you please tell me

Why can't TempleOS run on modern x86_64 machines? https://superuser.com/q/1328148?atw=1 #requirements
#requirements indeed.
> The CIA and whole industry is trying to mess everything up, on purpose.
Gotta love Terry Davis.
You know, I once met him on IRC and witnessed him talking to an IRC bot he wrote for something like 13 (or was it 18?) hours straight (no breaks for more than a minute). The bot was a markov bot that created replies from text from the bible.
It was a surreal experience.
12:14 AM
Wow, sounds like it. I wonder how he was experiencing it.
Well he was clearly getting something out of it.
He seems to feel like he understood it and responded as if in conversation.
Wee.... Sorry that's the second time I was suspended from chat.
I know the feeling.
12:17 AM
Ok, so the deal -- I was suspended because after all of my ReactOS questions were closed because ReactOS is Beta software, I voted to close other beta software. And I got banned for that. Not sure exactly. It all really was BETA software, and to the best of my knowledge I was only trying to be consistent.
That doesn't sound fair.
It really doesn't.
I don't think that's how it went
lemme check
I mean if you were VTCing in good faith (i.e. the software was actually beta)...
12:18 AM
As for the other ReactOS questions, those are only closed. My questions were actually better (imho), and they were deleted. Also, the questions that remain, now closed, are only closed because I pointed out that inconstancy on Meta.SuperUser, and that as the first attempt to create a consistent policy. "Let's just ban reactos questions."
So, evan....
When I asked for SuperUser to not isolate ReactOS, the abstracted maxim I was given was "all beta software" was prohibited.
I see opened TempleOS question on the site -- the community ended up deciding to accept it as on-topic? (I know we're talking about ReactOS above.)
@EvanCarroll What kind of beta software questions did you VTC?
@SomethingBadHappened Yes, after fighting for it. They did. And those questions despite being all negatively received are now positively received (or on their way), because those questions are pretty good -- let's admit.
12:20 AM
@SomethingBadHappened probably we didn't really bother to close them.
And quite honestly, this sort of behaviour - trying to bully mods into going their way is an utter pain
I don't have all day to deal with specific users - we make decisions based on the information at hand, document them, and reference back in future.
But rather than trying to kill off the drama and defend my ReactOS questions (which were also the product of hard work), the moderators entertained the organized lynch mob which emerged from a comment in chat that literally said something like "Evan is back with ReactOS" (and that's how all those questions got closed, which put me in another position to fight on the network)
But, a good moderator would have taken action against those users in chat abusing the network to harass me.
I'm feeling harassed now :/
@forest if I recall correctly, questions that explicitly said "This software is in beta." I'm not sure off hand, I would have to have an admin look.
12:22 AM
Its all in meta. shrug
But hey, go ahead, enjoy your popcorn and drama.
Here ya go.
That's why I got suspended.
So... there's this thing called whataboutism
Is MAME prerelease software?
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland...
But, MAME is no more "prerelease" than ReactOS. They're both decades projects with a TON of users and a vibrant community.
12:24 AM
@SomethingBadHappened I don't think it is.
@SomethingBadHappened "you closed MAME - what about Reactos?"
It's well-established and extremely efficient.
@SomethingBadHappened yes. It is.The developers of MAME do not intend to release a version 1.0 of their emulator program[28] because there will always be more arcade games to emulate and thus the project will never be truly "finished." Accordingly, version 0.99 was simply followed by version 0.100.
For the same reason btw, that ReactOS developers do not intend to release a version 1.0
Well the same is true with other popular software like Tor.
taking popcorn to bed
12:25 AM
@JourneymanGeek I don't think you could get away with describing citing precedent as "whataboutism" in a courtroom.
@SomethingBadHappened no, that's literally the rhetorical tone Evan took here
"My question got closed - so what about this other thing? Since I can't have what I wanted, they shouldn't too"
@EvanCarroll To be fair, simply not having a non-zero major version does not mean something is pre-release. And MAME is certainly more stable than ReactOS.
I would agree, this is why the policies of SuperUser are ignorant and silly inherently, and why it's clear under examination that they'll only ever enforce these against me. Because it's not about ReactOS, this was a few users in chat with the tacit permission of the ops giving me the finger.
Evan seems to be obviously in the right, per the facts described above.
All I wanted was to participate in the community and to seed ReactOS with my own curiosity, and I challenge anyone to asses those questions fairly (or my templeos questions) and to conclude that they're not a good fit for the site.
12:28 AM
There is some gray area in rules that needs to be decided without being able to follow 100% from the rules, but I feel like sometimes you have a moderator community socializing in a private echo chamber and using that to figure out the gray area, without the community really being involved.
That's kind of what I see too.
Though admittedly I do see Evan egging people on as well.
I take Evan seriously but not literally.
Let's all agree to put this matter to rest. Evan, if you have a disagreement with site mods, just contact SE. I'm sure they'll see everything.
@EvanCarroll Have you tried writing a question that you would write with a throwaway account to see if it gets closed?
That would help tell you if you are being unfairly targeted.
12:29 AM
That is a good test.
Certainly, that's what happens. In the early days of this site that was actually a suspendable offense. You couldn't ask [cv-pls] or whatever, because the end effect of that is that the sites ability to delegate to users to asses the situation fairly is hijacked by supremely interested actors that are invested in "moderation" and that circumvents the site which sees their interest in closing as organic and subject-matter related.
Hmm. I see your concern, but I am sympathetic to the fact that without things like that, the ability to close questions at all on these sites scales poorly when they get super-large.
Then the site needs to step up the game with technology and not allow juntas of celebrities.
Certainly, very many of our issues are, at their root, failings of Stack Exchange Inc.
@forest no, though I have express permission to do that. It's clear though right, I mean I asked 10 questions on ReactOS and they were all deleted, and the other ones are only closed and pointed that out, further I actually have the text from the users in question
There is a smoking gun there.
12:32 AM
@SomethingBadHappened That I agree with, especially wrt recent drama (themes, CoC, arbitration, etc).
The community needs to make decisions in that context and we end up with things like _v-pls that sacrifice one value (objectivity of review, maybe) to serve another value (filtering out problems at scale).
@SomethingBadHappened shrug I wouldn't put anyting on SE here - we made the decisions and documented it. And I'd rather have a community junta over a user being able to badger me into making a decision.
The buck stops with me
^stalker, and serial harassment. That was how he introduced his concern about ReactOS. As he voted to close just my 10 questions and leave the remaining 15. The answer from the moderators at that time was "I was not being singled out."
A: Closure of questions regarding pre-release/beta software

Evan CarrollFirst, it would be my position that all software that is commonly available and used by end-users should be on topic. This specific piece of software has always been declared "alpha" by the creators. That's partly because they're so far from their own goal. The software saw its initial release in...

12:36 AM
Ok... @EvanCarroll its time to get off the soap box please.
Or I'm going to treat this exactly as I would if another site mod was being targetted.
I don't have more to say except that I am sympathetic to Evan. But I'm not a real member of Super User or DBA so I don't have a stake or perspective.
I support the motion to adjourn this topic.
@JourneymanGeek Are you being targeted? It sounds to me at least that Evan's upset about being abused, not singling anyone out in particular.
I mean granted I've only been skimming, but still.
@forest eh, yes.
Trust me here.
I mean, as a human being and all that ;p
12:40 AM
11 mins ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
Let's all agree to put this matter to rest. Evan, if you have a disagreement with site mods, just contact SE. I'm sure they'll see everything.
I'm not seeing anything insulting or offensive, but I don't know the history between you two. I'll certainly flag any comments that are downright attacking you (or anyone).
Ok, I think we can agree that was completely out of line
I'd like an apology. Right now.
sorry JG
Not from you. You did nothing wrong. ;p
Yeah I think that was rude too. I mean it's fine to have opinions that someone is not a good moderator, but saying someone has a proven track record of being unreasonable is unkind.
12:43 AM
I can go on? are we still making the case? I wrote to him personally multiple times on SU chat to try to get clarification on why I was banned... Nothing.
@EvanCarroll I've tried my best to be reasonable, and give you space. However, I believe that this completely crosses the line of what's acceptable and is a personal attack.
You saw it. You think it's reasonable to ban someone for VtCing based on interpretations of the rules?
You might want to delete that comment, yeah. Or at least change it to "I think he's not a good moderator and is unreasonable" instead, which is less inflammatory.
I can't edit it. But fine
I will flag that.
12:45 AM
@JourneymanGeek Why not just delete it? Aren't you a room owner?
@forest I can move
Oh but not downright delete?
But its not a great way to deal with what I feel this is
I don't think simply moving it is the right action either.
I think it'd be better to just let it go. It's clear you two have personal differences. I think it's rude what he said, but not the end of the world.
12:46 AM
TBH, I'm frustrated that my favourite mod tool "Hey guys, could we move on?" dosen't work here
@JourneymanGeek If this topic ever comes up again, just time out the room. ROs can do that.
But that's ok
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog and not let anyone else talk unless I +v them?
@JourneymanGeek Timeouts only last 60 seconds.
I think it's good that you didn't do that. Otherwise, I would be much more liable to side fully with whoever is not a moderator. I like that I'm able to hear both sides.
@forest I really prefer soft moderation. I'm still working on building the same level of trust I have on SU/RA
12:48 AM
As long as it doesn't devolve into insults (which hopefully won't happen again).
Sadly I'm not there yet :/
But I have had... eh,. 7+ years on RA? I've not been on tavern on the meta that long.
How long have you been here?
actively? maybe 2-3 years?
That's a pretty mild "personal attack".
Not been an RO that long
@SomethingBadHappened I personally disagree.
Not been a real RO even less. I initially just cleaned up after smokey...
who is.. remarkably quiet.
12:50 AM
I think it's mild as well, it's just a little strong. In particular, it seems like it's attacking your moderation, rather than attacking you as a person.
@JourneymanGeek It's not spam hour yet
@forest there's no difference.
The role dosen't make the person, but the person makes the role.
@JourneymanGeek Just because someone doesn't moderate well doesn't mean that they're a bad person.
I have flagged the comment to be edited to "You might want to delete that comment, yeah. Or at least change it to "I think he's not a good moderator and is unreasonable" instead, which is less inflammatory." which is good enough.
I didn't realize that the comment would be taken so poorly. Makes me wonder how you would take working 4 hours on questions for ReactOS to have them uniquely deleted.... ;)
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Well, there's certain qualities a good moderator has - and they're qualities the person has
12:52 AM
But by any means, I don't want peopel to think it's personal.
Was Evan leaving or was he kicked for that?
@forest yes
Logical yes huh :P
I asked him to drop it. He seems unable to do so without help. I'm helping.
12:53 AM
To be fair, there is an exception to the rule: you can contact SE and obtain permission. I wonder why he's not going that route.
Permission to do what?
@forest Run as a mod with a recent prior network suspension
@JourneymanGeek Well he was clarifying that he was not intending to be rude or for it to be taken personally. I think it was something fine for him to say, tbh.
@forest naw, he was starting the reactos thing again.
12:54 AM
I'm not angry or even disappointed.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog would be declined, SE history.
@JourneymanGeek What do you mean?
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog ....don't you know? really?
I don't know either.
If he has compelling evidence that his suspension was unjustified, it would be approved. Which means, either he simply didn't bother to go that route, or he did but there was no compelling evidence. Either way, I wouldn't vote for him.
oh you is ok
12:56 AM
I just looked through some of his Meta posts and saw that he had bad ideas.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I am surprised about.
"Either way, I wouldn't vote for him."
Oh that's fine
Lots of people didn't in some of the elections I was asked to stand in ;p
I saw his mod nomination before it was removed. Based on that alone I wouldn't have voted.
Can I vote for Kim Jung Un?
1:00 AM
@forest Smuggle in your own red pen
@forest under a few specific conditions
Could he realistically be elected on DBA if not for the block?
1. He needs an account on the site.
2. He needs to be a user in good standing
Why is everyone getting so confused on what the purpose of the website is (Yes, I'm off-topic about what your chatting about)
3. he dosen't need your vote ;p
1:01 AM
@Devealte are you talking about the off topic posts on meta?
@SomethingBadHappened No one could. We haven't had any elections recently, and no plans for one.
@Devealte Isn't this website designed for getting homework questions answered??
1:02 AM
4. He has all the north koreans to vote for him, in the spirit of judache and the indomintable will of the people.
@Devealte at least this one self deleted ;p
A: Why do users often ask blatantly off-topic questions here on Meta?

Sonic the Anonymous HedgehogUpdate (January 23, 2018): This answer previously contained a canned comment containing a link to a survey I was running to determine why users post off-topic questions here. Per a request from an SE employee, the link has been removed, and the survey is no longer accepting responses. The team i...

@PaulWhite ahh
@TheEvanCarroll creative, but clearly trolling
Should we add a page for new users
1:03 AM
Evan doesn't troll.
Explains what the main purpose of the website is about?
@Devealte I brought it up and suggested things ;p
@Devealte actually... the new user/question wizard might be ace here
I hate trolls. Especially the subtle ones. Ever since someone sat down and explained trolling to me, I've been determined to fight this. How can I help? — Evan Carroll May 20 '14 at 23:46
I like trolls. Trolls are fun.
1:04 AM
Still one of my favourite comments on the whole network.
@Devealte I actually think a few folks hit the wrong button
@SomethingBadHappened Pffft ahahaha
a few assume it will get moved.
Yeah maybe
I like this Evan guy more and more now.
He's a clever troll.
1:06 AM
a few more is "I am a simple person, I see a text box and I must post"
I got the wrong post
Ignore it
I don't really like the term "trolling" any more, since now the internet is bigger and it sort-of conflates all of "being slightly provocative", "being an asshole", and "being a russian bot".
@SomethingBadHappened Its the one case where its not about the behaviour, its about the person
Well its also about "ruining things for other people"
Oh wow I must be behind the times, I didn't even know Terry Davis died.
I just read that on Wikipedia now. wtf
1:08 AM
yep, sad
Even I knew that, and I don't actually remember who he is ._.
RIP Terry Davis. You will be missed.
actually scratch that, I confused him with someone else
I'll never again argue with him about VMWare on IRC. :(
1:10 AM
I'm glad this site does not annoy me
Thank you developers and administrators
Great website
All the other website ask me to vote
2 hours ago, by Something Bad Happened
Oh well
What I mean is
I enter the websites, hundreds of messages to me to "Vote!"
I occasionally see a message saying it seems like I haven't voted on questions for a while
1:13 AM
I got an upvote
My Precious reputation
One downvote and I lose all of it
Q: Get out and VOTE!

I Voted The Importance of Voting Voting is one of the most important rights and responsibilities that U.S. citizens have. About 150 million American citizens are qualified to vote. Unfortunately, many don’t. They give up on a chance to choose leaders and representatives who will do things that are i...

Well I VTCed.
@Devealte actually no
@PaulWhite Exactly what I was talking about
1:18 AM
You get +10 for an upvote on an answer (+5 for a question)
-1 if you get downvoted?
Yeah I think so
I just earned +15 Rep.
Now I can create a chat room
But I can't since I can't find the "Create room" Button
Can anyone help?
@Devealte does this work for you? chat.meta.stackexchange.com/?tab=mine&sort=active
1:21 AM
I cant find the button
might take a while for your new privilege to propagate.
If it doesn't then that's a bug report
I know there is a administrator election page
But I don't know where is it
SE dosen't have admins ;p
No wrong thing
Well we sorta do, but they're employees and have different job titles
did you mean mods?
1:29 AM
I keep calling mods administrators
oh, there used to be an elections.stackexchange.com site but... its down indefinately, and per site/election pages
what site?
Yeah that one
I wanted to visit it
But now I cant
Ya, its down
Oh man...
more or less it was community built/run iirc and they didn't (don't?) have a good way to have non core SE sites on https
1:37 AM
A: elections.stackexchange.com isn't loading

Shog9Yeah, this is gonna be down for a bit; Tim Stone was maintaining it and Tim Post was hosting it. The domain, of course, was controlled by the company... Which is currently moving all se.com subdomains to HTTPS. This presents two problems: Tim Post can't continue hosting it, and we don't have an...

2:05 AM
mor.. ugh, 726 unread messages???
(or do you?)
well, looks like I missed much drama! re-reading all of it
2:41 AM
4 messages moved to Chimney
@Devealte what I've been working on this week
@Shog9 A new election site?
Long way away from production, but Grace Note designed a replacement calendar so we're gonna give it a go internally
Blarg. UBlock isn't blocking the new contributor info anymore.
2:48 AM
plays world's tiniest violin
accidentally inhales world's tiniest violin
I just ignore it
frantically coughs up world's tiniest violin
steps on world's tiniest violin, irreparably breaking it
searches around frantically for someone to blame for the loss of the world's tiniest violin
@JourneymanGeek It's Makyen's fault.
There you go
2:49 AM
that violin was a work of art. it will be missed
You just need the world's smallest luthier
@Shog9 Unlike you @Makyen explains everything
learned a word: luthier
@Shog9 Is this another, "Tim lost his keys" moment?
2:52 AM
@PaulWhite its a cool word. And one I hardly if ever get to use.
today is a great day
Les Luthiers is an Argentine comedy-musical group, very popular also in several other Spanish-speaking countries including Paraguay, Guatemala, Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Spain, Colombia, Mexico, Uruguay, Bolivia, Cuba, Costa Rica and Venezuela. They were formed in 1967 by Gerardo Masana, during the height of a period of very intense choral music activity in Argentina's state universities. Their outstanding characteristic is the home-made musical instruments (hence the name luthiers, French for "musical instrument maker"), some of them extremely sophisticated, which they skillfully employ in the...
@Shog9 So I noticed that the Engineering Manager position was put back up, after initially being removed. Were candidates interviewed, but no one competent enough was found?
Why? You applying? ;p
2:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek I know someone who may be interested in that position.
Well pass it on to them shrug
Never know till you try ;)
@Shog9 As I said, they pretty much match up to the criteria (12+ years dev and 6+ years management), but their dev experience isn't in full-stack Web development, it's in embedded systems development instead. Would they qualify?
I know you responded to this a while back, but is your position still the same, since the listing was removed and then reinstated?
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog just let them apply and see?
That's what I said ;)
3:25 AM
ah, right...
searches for world's tiniest violin
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Unlock Huawei Bootloader by sdfsdvg on android.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body (98): Can the iPhone X Screen replacement be used to the iPhone XS in future? by ETrade Supply on meta.SE (@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog)
@Shog9 I admit it. It's all my fault. Whatever it was. :-)
@SomethingBadHappened Polls seem to be mostly un-broken this year
4:04 AM
what's that graphic?
Yes. On the answer. Idk what op is trying to do
why not flag as VLQ or NAA also?
4:31 AM
eh could, but deletion takes care of what needs to be taken care of
4:43 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body (98): Anyone know about this service providers? by Jeffrey A. Martinez on money.SE
With regards to chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7349715#7349715: meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/60928 is the LQ task. Only three more votes from 2k+ users who haven't already flagged are needed
I can do reviews if I feel like it.
I'm busy watching simon pegg being a complete and utter badass ;p
@PaulWhite 538's predictions over time of which party will have the house.
and apparently using a (fake?) octopus as a nunchuck
@Catija thanks - but "over time"? years? today?
4:48 AM
What's 538?
prediction site as I recall
This evening.
Over the last ~ 6 hours, I think.
Spike in red was around 7 pm central time. It's 11 now.
4:53 AM
I see it now - it's a graph of the chance of each party having control of the house from 6pm to latest
There's also one for the senate:
Yeah. That one is more boring, though.
I suppose that depends on one's politics
I'm surprised there was ever a high chance of the republicans retaining the house though
4:54 AM
It was 95-100% all night. Pretty boring, either way.
Not that I know much about US elections but governments typically get punished during mid-term elections
I had heard talk of a blue wave and the republicans losing both house and senate
It was surprising to see the republicans pick up seats in the senate
Senate was always unlikely. Most of the seats up this year were democratic held already.
Maybe, I don't really know. Still, I don't think democrats expected to go backwards.
4:58 AM
Anyway it seems to me like a pretty boring return to 'gridlocked' US government
Good to see a high turnout at least. That's encouraging in general.
The chart there showed a 95% chance of the republicans picking up two seats starting when I started watching this evening at 6:30. So I don't think it was much of a surprise.
Yeah I don't mean a surprise today but there's been a lot of talk over the past weeks/months.
Sleeping now. It's in short supply at the moment.
That's a good idea ;p
catch it when you can.
5:00 AM
I suppose both sides will claim victory as usual in these things.
It was 85-100 in the House when I left off, then it became 156-156
Now it's 173-166.
I just noticed that graphic earlier was cropped as well.
@PaulWhite Mike Pence gets to sleep
5:08 AM
Who's he?
Does he have insomnia?
@PaulWhite Vice President. He'd be forced to break ties if we had a hung 50-50 Senate.
Oh! I see, thanks.
ha ha I honestly didn't know he was VP
5:45 AM
The veep gets no respect
(also, Biden was cool. I mean, he had memes)
Heck, I don't even know who the candidates are or what each of them did wrong

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