Tavern on the Meta

12:00 AM

@Braiam 4412 active (post or vote) MSO users during the past 30 days. 4224 of them active on SO during the same time period.

bjb568

@Shog9 How about other way around?

How about for MSE?

Shog9

For comparison, MSE in the 30 days before the split had 4109 active users, out of which 3712 were active on SO.

In the past 30 days, MSE has had 2380 active users, out of which 2065 are active on SO

user259867

Past 30 days = holidays.

Shog9

yup

In the 30 days immediately after the split, 7823 users were active on the new MSO, and 7505 were active on SO

bjb568

kewl

user259867

12:09 AM

the 30 days immediately after the split = Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late? debate

Shog9

In... Oh, let's say September... 5215 users were active on MSO out of which 5003 were active on SO

bluet

yep, higher activity on meta.SO less on meta.SE , way more new peeps after the split for meta.SO

bjb568

feels like graph would be helpful

Shog9

not really

bjb568

wants a graph anyway

user259867

12:12 AM

Two most-viewed MSO posts are "negative of late" (71K) and "quality dropping" (35K), both from late April.
In the third place is the post about xxx.com (31K), driven by ... a coincidental factor. All other posts have <20K views.

Shog9

Just to put all this into perspective, during the past 30 days there were 276,980 users active on SO (again, where I'm defining "active" as "posted or voted at least once")

hichris123

Okay, fairly sure I made some stuff better & didn't break anything @Fundamental

user259867

Here, have a cookie.

hichris123

:D

bluet

:D

Braiam

12:17 AM

you should put all that info in MSO @shog, kind of a yearly review of the split, if the objectives were accomplished, blabla, yadayada

the community may want to know that when the cheese was moved, it was to a better place

hichris123

> @Davepop wanna skype ?

lol

bjb568

►

Shog9

@Braiam probably worth waiting until a full year has passed then. tl;dr for now is that we have roughly 20% more active users on MSO since the split. We'll see if that carries.

hichris123

... who shall I poke to get a screenshot (SO)? @Undo? stackoverflow.com/questions/27912665/halp-why-i-cant-i-do-this

bjb568

@hichris123 Try @Shog !

Shog9

12:21 AM

> Hi guys please explan the gives a lot of errors but it looks correct to me:

Braiam

@Shog9 ¬_¬

hichris123

@bjb568 ... now you did it.

Braiam

obviously is NOT correct

hichris123

I was wondering what the post was since there was a comment on it:

> inb4 20 downvotes

user259867

12:35 AM

Hi guys please explan the gives a lot of errors but it looks correct to me:
#include <iostream.h>
void main()
{
vector<string> = ["a", "b", "c"];
for (elem : vector)
cout << elem << endl;
if elem == "b":
elem = "bb";
cout << vector;
return 0;
}

Braiam

@Fundamental err... vector<string> = array!?

user259867

@Braiam The user's name is Chad Madcoder which might explain...

hichris123

Interesting last name.

bluet

12:50 AM

> Now before you down vote this thread, please read the whole question carefully

Undo

@hichris123 it only has 12, deserves a bunch more :P

Braiam

1:02 AM

> 'iostream.h' file not found

just to start

(assuming is C++)

1200 kG of evidence drugs magically disappeared

bluet

"StackExchange seems to lack basic functionality" meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/283332/…

user259867

I agree. I use my own review page instead of the queue. My own tab for questions from users confirmed as non-vampires. Customized filter for interesting questions from unconfirmed users. Self-made display of votes cast today. And too many CSS tweaks to count.

bjb568

1:17 AM

Yeah, SE's front end is crap.

bluet

no it's not, I like it

bjb568

@Shog Use your magic to fix it!

@bluet ur weird

user259867

And most of those tweaks are not to fix bugs, but to override conscious choices made by SE.

bluet

of course there are some improvements that could be made, but to say it's not user friendly is nonsense imo

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: competitive in cheap Fifa 15 Coins by user48829 on webmasters.stackexchange.com

bjb568

1:20 AM

@bluet I'd classify it as user hostile, like windows (esp 8).

bluet

@bjb568 you probably borked your site experience somehow

user259867

@SmokeDetector tp

SmokeDetector

@Fundamental Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad'.

bjb568

Colors, spacing, layout, fixed-ness, navigation, toolset consistency (I WANT VOTE BUTTONS IN REVIEW), search…

And everything is jQuery.

bluet

you no like jquery now? :p

bjb568

1:26 AM

Hmph, why does history teacher put in grade as 27.3/30?

Shog9

@bjb568 there's an API. Heck, the HTML ain't hard to parse either.

bjb568

@bluet no

@Shog9 tables

Shog9

I would recommend using a real HTML parser instead of regex if tables scare you

bjb568

Besides, why can't SE make a reasonably decent front-end?

Shog9

because decent for you != decent for others

bjb568

1:27 AM

@Shog9 The problem is everything is unorganized and not semantic.

bluet

@bjb568 is there a q/a site , forum, something similar that has better than SE that you can name?

bjb568

@Shog9 Like my history teacher would say, We need to try harder to do our best work… I know there are kids in this class who can get an A, you just have to prioritize and do your work… (not that that is at all relevant)

@bluet Uh… DevDoodle?

:P

Shog9

I mean, you've posted, what, a few hundred answers?

just throwing this out there, you don't even have 10K yet.

So you're not exactly in the "optimize for answering" group

Neither are you in the "never seen the site before, asking a question" group

bjb568

@Shog9 My motivation stopped after crappiness.

I do answer questions that I think are good, but those don't seem to be on the front page…

Or tag pages…

Or search…

Maybe 1% of the redesigned homepage thing.

Shog9

You don't have a whole lot of edits, you don't vote that much (unless you count closure, but I'm guessing a lot of that comes from review - which is an optimized UI, albeit one where a lot of folks don't realize what we're optimizing for)

Braiam

1:31 AM

@Shog9 I think that the "This edit does not make the post even a little bit easier to read," are being used the same way the "too minor" was

bjb568

@Shog9 My activity is limited by schoolwork.

bluet

too busy borking dd

Braiam

I presume reviewers are just replacing wherever they would use too minor with the new one

Shog9

@bjb568 I'm not criticizing you, I'm just saying: optimizing the site for you is not going to work for a lot of other people

bjb568

Sigh… It looks to me like it's optimized for rep whores and vamps.

Shog9

1:34 AM

@Braiam it is

@bjb568 you do understand what the point of reputation is, right?

bluet

to pay the bills of course

Shog9

bjb568

@Shog9 To motivate people to answer, set up sockpuppets, keep making content that'll get page views, avoid editing and reviewing at all costs, post comment answers, post controversial posts that will get net positive rep because +10/-2…

Shog9

@bjb568 wrong

bjb568

Well, in your utopia what is it for?

Braiam

1:37 AM

@Shog9 seems that we didn't solve the problem :(

bjb568

Not really. You mostly made me not want to review properly anymore. And by that, since I'm a good kitten, I mean not review.

Shog9

@bjb568 buying beer. But that's not what I asked. What is the point - the purpose, if you'd rather - of reputation?

To put this another way... If we didn't have reputation, who would be the top user on SO?

@Braiam see graph above

user259867

The one with most answers posted. Who is...

Shog9

...Jon Skeet

hichris123

@Shog9 Probably still Skeet. Since reputation seems to favor experts & those who consistently post high-quality answers.

user259867

1:39 AM

So, no need for rep.

Shog9

The point of reputation is...

...to keep score.

If we didn't have reputation, people would still be keeping score.

hichris123

This is like MadLibs right now.

Doorknob

"the point of the score is to keep score"

bjb568

@Shog9 The user who has the highest answer-only upvotes^2 * (downvotes+1)^-1 per sqrt("unborked people helped score")

Doorknob

"if you join the tautology club, you will be a member of the tautology club"

2

Shog9

1:40 AM

@Doorknob it's pretty obvious, except for bjb I guess

hichris123

@Doorknob You, my sir, need a star.

Doorknob

Relevant xkcd, of course

user259867

Reputation stimulus is too effective. Rep bonus for acceptance should be 0 instead of 15.

bjb568

Siiigh… I really need to read that romeo and juliet… so boring… many thanks to spark notes… will check back here intermittently

@Fundamental agree with that totally

And bounties should be only started by people with silver tag badge

user259867

So that reputation would be generated only by users who can generate it for themselves.

Shog9

1:42 AM

The value of reputation as a semi-separate "thing" is that it lets us control the rules a bit.

hichris123

@Shog9 Were more suggested edits approved after the revamp of the reject reasons?

Shog9

Top-10 users on the site by posts:

User Link
--------------- -----
Jon Skeet       30804
Darin Dimitrov  20723
Gordon Linoff   16517
BalusC          15923
Hans Passant    14575
CommonsWare     14065
SLaks           13814
Marc Gravell    13257
anubhava        12307
Martijn Pieters 12190

Top-10 users on the site by reputation:

User Link      Reputation
-------------- ----------
Jon Skeet      742156
Darin Dimitrov 563393
BalusC         535220
Marc Gravell   515114
Hans Passant   514740
VonC           458840
CommonsWare    436272
SLaks          424447
Greg Hewgill   390072
paxdiablo      375013

Braiam

we should just cap everyone at 20k rep @Shog9

user259867

@Braiam And make them lose interest sooner?

Braiam

@Fundamental no, they just start having a life

hichris123

1:45 AM

@Doorknob That's pretty good.

user259867

But seriously, +15 for acceptance is the worst. The users harping about Y NO ACCEPT are the ones answering the lowest quality questions imaginable (from 1 rep users). Take away 15 from them, and they will not be pouncing on those questions as readily.

bjb568

> one fire burns out another’s burning.

O_O

Shog9

Outside the major tags, accept rep is pretty significant

hichris123

@Fundamental Huh. There are 800 accept comments in my database compared to 350 downvote comments. To be fair, that catches "acceptable" and "accept that it won't work", but...

bjb568

Huh… Juliet is 14…

user259867

1:54 AM

@Shog9 Significant for beginners (I'm pretty happy about getting +15 on SO, so I know). But users get locked in the "answer all the crap" mode. Limit the bonus similar to edit bonus: you get +15 from accepted answers provided your rep < 2000.

Shog9

@bjb568 yeah, that story makes a whole lot more sense when you realize it was essentially Twilight for the Renaissance

Frank

Wow, I beat a rage quitter who doesn't finish the game. I hate it when they do that

Braiam

@bjb568 pre-1900 boys and girls aged fast...

bjb568

Actually, the opposite is true do to proper nutrition now.

Shog9

@Fundamental everything is crap until it is answered. Pearls & sand.

bjb568

1:56 AM

@Shog9 and edited

Shog9

All long help threads should have a sticky globally-editable post at the top saying 'DEAR PEOPLE FROM THE FUTURE: Here's what we've figured out so far ...'

^^^ doesn't get any less frustrating when the question is well-written.

user259867

Okay, it's more like "answer all the crap with two lines and don't edit anything" mode.

Shog9

now we're getting somewhere

Braiam

@Shog9 I think that when he says "crap" is the kind of thing that makes your eyes bleed, or saying "I just lose 30 seconds of my life reading this shit"

stuff that you really, really don't want to see

Shog9

I've said it before, but... I joined SO for one reason: to be able to edit the questions I answered.

Braiam

1:59 AM

there is a point that doesn't matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, you can't hide the fact that it's a pig

hichris123

Yeah, I hate it when I find a SO question or some random forum thread about the issue I'm facing, and it either has no answer or no understandable answer (broken links, plain confusing, etc)

Braiam

@hichris123 I hate much more when the question appears to be the problem I'm facing, and after reading it is something totally different

hichris123

@Braiam ... or if there's no Google results. :(

Braiam

2:14 AM

@hichris123 no, in that case I feel like the cool guy that has an state-of-art gadget

hichris123

@Braiam Last example I had of that was "I have a weird compile error, how can I fix it?" so in that case I wasn't feeling like the cool guy, no. :P

bjb568

2:34 AM

*kewl

Unihedro

3:15 AM

Um.

bjb568

Er…

Andrew T.

Oh..

Unihedro

Whenever I go offline, the widgets becomes a dummy SE one.

And the value is arbitrarily random and useless.

Where should I report that?

Doorknob

@Unihedro So, just like how they normally are?

;)

Andrew T.

Meta Stack Exchange android-app bug

user259867

3:18 AM

-1 for using Facebook

Unihedro

@Doorknob :D

Doorknob

-1 for naming a folder "Apps"

2 hours ago, by Doorknob

"if you join the tautology club, you will be a member of the tautology club"

Unihedro

@Fundamental I don't use Facebook. Already abandoned my account, just haven't uninstalled the app yet.

Actually, my phone is very messy.

user259867

retracts the imaginary downvote

Unihedro

Whenever I try to organize my phone:

Doorknob

3:19 AM

Also, another -1 for having more than one page of your homescreen. Why do people need so many pages? :P

Unihedro

user259867

Hey those are pretty neat, actually. And also absurdly easy since they're just reusing views / information we already have. — David Fullerton ♦ Jul 18 '14 at 0:43

user259867

Absurdly easy? Well...

Unihedro

@Doorknob Except for the last page, they're all calendars of a month. First page holds January and up to June, etc. I change them every half a year.

Doorknob

heh

SmokeDetector

3:37 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: babyliss pro native palms and gay parties by babylisscurl on drupal.stackexchange.com

Andrew T.

that's... early... and long...

@SmokeDetector tpu spam

SmokeDetector

@AndrewT. Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.

Andrew T.

useless spam anyway

not a spam, but, is it general to have 1000-character-long title on academic paper? drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/144040/…

user259867

Babyliss should be blacklisted in username too. Not the first time it shows up.

hichris123

@Fundamental it is, but word boundaries. And it's babyliss ?pro in the regex.

user259867

3:52 AM

More reason to refactor into separate regexes. This one does not need word boundaries, at least not the ending one.

user259867

I don't suppose there is a serious performance issue of checking 100 simple regexes instead of one that is their join.

hichris123

shrugs

Which reminds me: performance improvements tomorrow!

Unihedro

s,per\S+\s\S+,premature optimization,

hichris123

lol

More like we're calling the same function twice for no good reason.

Unihedro

Oh, well then... I'd call it unborking :P

bjb568

3:59 AM

da hell

ddg's

Unihedro

status-use-duckduckgo

bjb568

> Microsoft FrontPage (full name Microsoft Office FrontPage) is a discontinued WYSIWYG HTML editor and Web site administration tool from Microsoft for the Microsoft Windows line of operating systems.

O_O

Unihedro

Eww, windows

bjb568

> Prerequisite: Computer applications 1

O_O

Andrew T.

....good luck

Unihedro

4:02 AM

@bjb568 coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers

bjb568

> AP Computer Science A is all about problem-solving.

Ugh

Unihedro

> Microsoft thought long and hard about what should be included in the curriculum and after careful deliberation they advised that students should really learn how to use office software; Schools naturally searched long and hard for appropriate office software to teach with, and after much care they chose Microsoft Office

bjb568

Oh crap

Siiigh… mod flagged.

hichris123

-1 cat doesn't know how to use copy & paste correctly.

bjb568

Hey, I don't read everything I copypaste.

:P dat auto carrot

SmokeDetector

4:07 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: How to Helps Diminish Wrinkles!? by dimyroyed on drupal.stackexchange.com

Andrew T.

@SmokeDetector tpu

SmokeDetector

@AndrewT. Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.

bjb568

Dem slacking mods, I flagged my post! shakes fist

Come on… pokes @Shog . I don't want google and archive and everybody else indexing it…

invisions 1337 jquery haxxorz doing PI and grade lookup from other leaked name and school and finding all kinds of awful things :O

user259867

Punishment for criticizing SE design: being forced to build in FrontPage.

bjb568

:O

@bjb568 @Ben This one

Ben Collins

4:26 AM

i deleted the one you flagged

bjb568

I said there were 2.

Delete that one too.

user259867

Say please

bjb568

I said plox in the flag!

feels politely'd

Ben Collins

oh,I was supposed to read the flag?

bjb568

yay

@BenCollins Uh… maybe?

Ben Collins

4:27 AM

blindly handling flag request is much easier

user259867

Next task for bjb: write a botling that intercepts own posts when they contain PII.

bjb568

PII?

PI is private information…

Personal identifying info?

user259867

> information that can be used on its own or with other information to identify, contact, or locate a single person, or to identify an individual in context.

Unihedro

@BenCollins Nah, just kick everyone from the room. The end is near!!

Ben Collins

@Unihedro kick everyone? too much work. drop database is way easier.

user259867

4:30 AM

End is near? /thinks Uni's posting in his sleep again, and is having a nightmare.

user259867

This reminds me: when/where do people normally learn SQL? Assume a non-CompSci major.

Unihedro

@Fundamental Learn it the hard way.

Write SEDE queries! :D

bjb568

@Fundamental It's pretty easy to SELECT, just DDG everything else from there.

Or better yet, drop that and try ~~jQuery~~ mongoDB!

Andrew T.

Say Yes to NoSQL!

Unihedro

However, MySQL really sucks.

user259867

4:36 AM

@bjb568 That may or may not satisfy employers interested in SQL-capable interns.

user259867

@SmokeDetector fp

SmokeDetector

@Fundamental Registered as false positive and added title to Bayesian doctype 'good'.

Unihedro

Is Smokey's report spam?

bjb568

@Unihedro nah

Unihedro

Oh, an official site.

Why does the post seem like a terrible SEO attempt?

And more importantly, how did anyone decide to upvote that?

gaming.stackexchange.com/posts/201595/timeline

bjb568

4:38 AM

coz it's krap

upv gone

bluet

4:50 AM

@Fundamental could be , but if we get through the rest of this year we can sleep easy till 2020

"Brad Larson" predicts earth will end around 22,000,000,000 years from now.. from the linky

user259867

The name Brad Larson is not a link. And there is no citation. Weird. Brad Larson could be someone who edited in that row.

Unihedro

Citations are always needed.

bluet

edit and link to here ?

user259867

Maybe. But better not.

user259867

Today's xkcd is Earth Science themed!

user259867

4:55 AM

The place I'd least like to live is the farm in the background of those diagrams showing how tornadoes form.

bluet

that would be a great idea for an amusement park

user259867

Randall forgot to include a cape.

bjb568

kewl en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

Night!

bluet

bye

user259867

SPAM drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/144055/…

user259867

5:00 AM

Post body has both "skin" and "cream" but not together. If both appear in a post, that should be a strong enough signal for SD.

Unihedro

@Fundamental Pham would likely catch that. He's resting though.

bluet

did the red color change on MSO, it looks kind of pinkish now

Undo

yep

bluet

they should change the red color in the logo that says meta to same color then feature-request

or maybe they already did, hard to tell

user259867

I noticed that MSO posts with many links hurt my eyes more than usual. :/

Unihedro

5:17 AM

Inverted colors ftw

bluet

i just skipped this review since hard to read

Unihedro

IE? Eh, voted to leave closed.

bluet

i bet @inf loves the color change, am I right pink hat duckling?

status-female-friendly

Unihedro

status-gender-neutrality-ruined

user259867

feature-request suggested edits in chat

6

Unihedro

5:21 AM

@Fundamental Oh yes I want that!

bluet

Unihedro

And hopefully +1 star allowance for each accepted edit..

bluet

me in real life with my ~~< ^ >~~

Infinite Recursion

@bluet Not at all. MSO looks bad now :(

bluet

:(

Infinite Recursion

5:31 AM

@bluet Now edit it and become a disembodied head like Shog

head with a pink hat!

Andrew T.

:(

user259867

Change the display name to pinkuet in protest?

Andrew T.

slightly less spam?

Infinite Recursion

inb4 bot spam commences

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: HTML5 AND JAVASCRIPT GAME FRAMEWORK TO START WITH by Soproni on stackoverflow.com

Infinite Recursion

5:38 AM

cv-pls POB ^

DroidDev

what have you researched ? — zan 26 secs ago

I am going to use this one from now on as a substitute for "What have you tried?"

bluet

> what have you attempted

> what have you done

Andrew T.

> what

DroidDev

> WTH

for a really bad question ^

Infinite Recursion

I wonder why people write such comments. More work for flaggers and busy mods

bluet

5:40 AM

@InfiniteRecursion badge meta.stackoverflow.com/help/badges/31/commentator

DroidDev

@InfiniteRecursion sometimes, OP comes back and really shows their efforts.

Infinite Recursion

Thanks, good to know they some OPs fix their post and some might be trying to get the badge.

DroidDev

ya, even though its rare, sometimes its worth a try

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: weight loss diet plan by rhonda on meta.stackexchange.com

DroidDev

...and meanwhile

25

Q: How to enjoy the Triage review when you are flag banned?

I'm currently banned for flagging (for some low quality flag mistakes, with which I can live, never mind). What's worse is that it complicates the Triage review because the Unsalvageable button opens just the flag dialog, which is disabled for me with the message about my flagging failure: And...

Andrew T.

5:43 AM

@SmokeDetector tpu yo

SmokeDetector

@AndrewT. Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.

bluet

@DroidDev but for that question all he can really say is that he googled some stuff

Infinite Recursion

Phew, botling didn't bork and emulate Smokey

user259867

Reduce mod workload: end all your comments with "accept rate".

Infinite Recursion

^

In order to keep my speech gender-neutral, I shall now refer to people as "asshole" (in the singular) and "assholes" (in the plural). — Will 14 hours ago

bluet

5:46 AM

SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/247009/weight-loss-diet-plan

DroidDev

@bluet I was just talking about general case. Like here OP says they are able to do something, while some other things are not getting done. So, I am going to ask them to post their code. That might really be worth it

Undo

!!/alive?

SmokeDetector

@Undo Yup

Undo

in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 3 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: weight loss diet plan by rhonda on meta.stackexchange.com

user259867

@bluet already reported

Undo

5:46 AM

oh nevermind

bluet

totally missed that report

user259867

On MathJax-enabled sites one can use $\vphantom{accept rate}$ (which is invisible) to make one's comment auto-nukable. But this is too much work to insert.

user259867

Would be better to have an invisible Unicode character for that purpose.

Infinite Recursion

Nov 12 '14 at 3:54, by Shog9

If there's one thing I hate, it's Unicode

DroidDev

cv-plz too-broad, ot resource whatever stackoverflow.com/q/27915529/2389078

Infinite Recursion

5:52 AM

Tavern users are using monochromatic avatars and MSO is becoming pink. This is the end of the world.

DroidDev

in Java and Android era on Stack Overflow Chat, 17 hours ago, by maveň