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11:00 PM
@ColeJohnson without looking at the answers, tell me: how do you change the CSS class of a HTML element using JavaScript?
Then tell me, how do you do anything in JavaScript in response to an onClick event?
 
If I might barge in for a second, @shog - I'm pretty sure such question posted today will be downvoted and closed because it doesn't show any effort
Am I right?
 
@ShadowWizard That's what I'm getting at
 
Wait, I'm actually on shog side
But it was posted years ago
 
I get it was
 
Back then it was totally legit
 
11:01 PM
Again, my point is that if it were posted today, it would be downvoted into oblivion
 
It's still useful to this day
 
closing doesn't mean not useful
 
So my opinion that we either close ALL old questions, or let them all live happily
 
All old questions that fit the current close reasons
because that is what we are supposed to do
 
We really better focus our efforts on posts created recently, we have more than enough
 
11:03 PM
I'm amazed that this hasn't been posted yet. Background, informing a lot of Shog's arguments, I'm sure.
274
Q: Should Stack Overflow be awarding "A"s for Effort?

9 Shogs a-ShoggingThis just came up again: homework is not acceptable if the asker has made no effort whatsoever I'm developing a bit of an involuntary twitch that manifests itself when I encounter the word "effort" on Stack Overflow these days. Don't get me wrong — effort is good. At least, productive eff...

 
@MichaelPetrotta I may have been trying to refine those arguments... ;-)
 
@ShadowWizard Becuase focusing all our effor on the new ones who think it's OK because of the old ones being open
makes sense
 
@ShadowWizard and I'm saying that you can't pretend questions exist out of time. If that question didn't already exist, we might actually want to create it
 
@ColeJohnson So we can have generic comment/answer explaining "it was OK in the past, not anymore".
@shog I agree, but I don't think such question will survive today
 
@ShadowWizard That's kindof it
I'm gonna post that question now and we'll see how it fares
 
11:07 PM
@ColeJohnson pick one that's not a duplicate
 
that's funny how the one we're discussing doesn't even show up in the possible duplicate list
0
Q: How to change an elements CSS class with JavaScript

user3137986How to change an HTML elements CSS class in response to an onClick event in JavaScript

Now, if the one we're discussing didn't exist
Would you close that one?
 
@ColeJohnson ...and if there weren't dozens or possibly hundreds of other duplicates?
 
yes
would you close it?
 
@ColeJohnson yeah; look at the related sidebar though
@ColeJohnson probably not.
 
@ColeJohnson it will just be closed as dupe stackoverflow.com/questions/20792478/…
 
11:12 PM
It just did
 
Why do some of the chats use !important in some classes?
 
and has a score of -2
 
@ColeJohnson You're describing a situation where, for whatever reason, this is literally the first question to be asked regarding this topic on Stack Overflow. Imagine how useful that question would be.
 
But you can try and come with something that isn't yet posted in Stack Overflow, this will be the real test
 
Just because it's useful doesn't mean it can't be closed
Is there some rule that prevents you from closing questions as a duplicate of a closed one?
 
11:13 PM
IIRC, the rule prevents you from closing a question as a duplicate of an unanswered question (with the normal SO definition for "unanswered" in play)
 
Exactly
nothing says you can't close a question as a dup of a closed one
 
Now it's -5.
 
No, but look at the other one! It's at 681
-7
 
Closed as dup.
 
@ColeJohnson It also has close to three quarters of a million views. Just think how many people have found that question and not asked duplicates as a result...
 
11:15 PM
that's not the point
 
it is, indeed, the point
 
i though you said you ignore popularity when closing questions
 
@Cole Try something like that but something that's not a duplicate.
 
Joel Spolsky on January 05, 2011

Have you ever noticed how certain questions come up again and again on Stack Overflow sites?

Oh look, my PC is freezing. Should I use SELECT *? Oh, and, how can I host a server from home?

Really, people, do you want to be answering these same questions ten years from now? How about when you’re 65? That doesn’t sound so appealing now, does it?

We predicted this problem, even before we launched Stack Overflow. Why? Because the same thing happened on Usenet, where:

Most users could only see a few days or, at best, one month of archives for any given newsgroup. It was literally impossible  …

 
@hichris123 Give me an idea
 
11:19 PM
@Cole "how to create an image in android from an online photo?"
 
@ColeJohnson popularity isn't the issue here. There's a specific programming question that thousands of programmers have had at one point or another, which instead of answering thousands of times we can answer once, well, and be done with it. That is the point.
 
@hichris123 "You can only post once every 20 minutes."
 
@Cole Hah!
 
@ColeJohnson that's because it's 1 rep user
 
I'll just wait instead of bother making a new account
 
11:21 PM
@ColeJohnson the core of your problem with those old questions is "not enough effort", right?
 
yes
no code
 
So what if we consider searching for the answer as an effort?
 
Searching and finding no code?
 
Is your problem with lack of effort, that you suspect bad faith on the part of the asker?
Homework, laziness, that sort of thing?
 
11:22 PM
@9Shogsa-Shogging What's not a dupe on SO?
 
First time ever that someone try to do something
I think that's what @shog here is trying to explain and I totally agree
 
(I ask, because that's when I do use minimal understanding, and it's a use that's made me think, since I read the Meta post a few weeks ago)
 
The core of my problem is that they fit the current close reasons, yet we are somehow supposed to treat all questions equally except when they are the goto resource.
 
bad faith vs. good faith, really
 
@ColeJohnson there are always exceptions
 
11:24 PM
Look at this
31
Q: Are there CSS Alternatives to the Deprecated HTML Attributes "align" and "valign"?

Bona ChonIn HTML5, the table attributes align and valign are deprecated in favor of alternatives through CSS. I am used to using <td align="center" valign="top">, but I want to change so I don't seem unprofessional by using deprecated attributes. For example, how would I use CSS instead of attributes on t...

Would it be closed if there was no code block there?
 
useful questions are useful. that's the overriding "law".
 
@hichris123 no one's asked anything about Google Charts' new Histogram charts yet.
 
@MichaelPetrotta not 100%, the key is that it was never asked before
 
sorry, @Shadow, not sure what you're replying to.
 
@ColeJohnson who ever said "treat all questions equally"?
 
11:26 PM
the overriding law thing? I like mine better.
 
@MichaelPetrotta I replied to this
 
@ColeJohnson I'm not sure how that's at all relevant
 
If a question doesn't have enough detail to do anything useful with, @Cole, that's something else. If that's what you're arguing.
 
I'm arguing, would that question have been closed as "off-topic" if there was no code there?
 
11:28 PM
he's complaining that hard questions provide less bang for the buck for answerers (in terms of rep and such) - that's kind of a separate issue
 
@9Shogsa-Shogging if I can bother you for a second, did you notice this?
9
Q: Why don’t we call our licence by name?

kinokijufWhy does Stack Exchange use this weird “cc-wiki” euphemism instead of calling the CC-BY-SA by its real name? This is a bug report disguised as a question. As in: please fix the footer.

 
No I'm not
 
@ShadowWizard because it used to be known as "cc-wiki" and we never bothered to update the footer.
oh, that was already answered
 
Any reason not to update it now?
Will take "no, too minor" as a fair answer too
 
0
Q: How to download and save an image in Android?

pjh49947How can I download and save an image given a URL? I'm using Java for Android.

 
11:31 PM
@Cole Java for Android?
+1
 
Sorry, Cole, my OCD alarm went off and I need to edit.
 
it was to get around the quality filter
 
I suggest no one on here vote or close or anything so it's a purely scientific thing.
 
@ShadowWizard probably not; no idea.
 
Look at that. Uniqueness is hard.
 
11:42 PM
@Cole You got an upvote.
 
You're ruining it, @Cole.
 
Are you seriously trying to torpedo your own question?
I'm starting to get irritated here; if you're asking stuff in bad faith purely to prove a point, you need to stop.
6
A: Has a consensus been reached on whether or not some questions are too simple?

Jeff AtwoodStealing Shog's comment-as-answer. If the community has a consensus on anything, it's that simple questions are OK if: The answers can be interesting. It looks like there's a real problem being solved. The person asking has shown an honest effort and at least a modicum of understanding. Folk...

 
@StephenC I see a clock reading 3:46 PM. Is that what you're talking about>? — pjh49947 59 secs ago
 
(Re: firestorm kicked off by Joel posting a ridiculously simple Logo question just to prove a point)
 
11:48 PM
@9Shogsa-Shogging How do I move the turtle?
 
Nononono
just
How do I move the turtle
not in LOGO, but just a Turtle in general
> I guess my instructions were too complex. @pjh49947 lacks common sense. – Emmanuel 1 min ago
 
Pick it up, walk it over to where you want it, set it down gently, nurse your bite wounds.
3
This Emmanuel guy seems pretty savvy.
 
What if I asked "How do I pick up the turtle and move it using Java and an Arduino?" and it got an answer that worked
 
This Emmanuel guy seems like a jackass. Exemplifying another SO problem.
 
11:53 PM
"It looks like there's a real problem being solved."
 
Shog9 on August 08, 2012

It’s been a few weeks now since Joel kicked off our “summer of love”. There’ve been some excellent discussions in the blog comments and on Meta, and we’ve tried to present some hard data on how objectively “nice” we are. But it’s high time to talk about what place “niceness” really has on Stack Exchange. And to do that, we need to start by talking about you:

You, sir, are a jackass.

And that’s ok.

Stack Overflow wasn’t created to be some utopian ideal of peace and love. When Jeff & Joel set out to create this system, they knew full well the sort of problems that face online commun …

 
@ColeJohnson @ColeJohnson that's not a programming question
but it might just fit in pets.stackexchange.com
 
Isn't it?
I'm moving a turtle using Java
sounds quite much about programming
 
That poor turtle. What did it ever do to deserve that?
2
 
@ColeJohnson there is a rather common homework assignment involving a mechanical turtle. Fortunately, it has not yet been copied onto Stack Overflow.
 
11:57 PM
> Sticking a fork in this. If you've proved anything, @pjh49947, it's that folks on SO are better at finding duplicates than you are. – Shog9♦ 1 min ago
@9Shogsa-Shogging o nou, btu meinz difrunt en dat et uzes a clauw two peek up eh reel tutel adn moove et sumwere elze
 
Oh no, Shog killed the turtle with a fork? Please tell me it wasn't in the library.
 
Of course not. I always rely on the candlestick in the library.
 
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