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2:08 PM
@TimStone FYI that Swing file chooser bounty expires in four hours or so. If you stopped caring, that's cool, but if you just forgot, this is your reminder.
 
2:25 PM
@PopularDemand I didn't forget, but I didn't get enough time to finish my example code either, so I'll probably have to post it post-bounty.
 
@TimStone Fair enough.
 
@Reno this is okay, but it requires more freehanded circles
 
I'm a bit stunned at how many upvotes some of those answers got after I posted "This did not work" comments.
 
@PopularDemand It's perhaps the "hah made him look" factor?
 
@badpssockpuppet The what now?
 
2:35 PM
I'm sure @TimStone has a better idea
 
@PopularDemand I was a little surprised (probably not really the word for it, but) too. The answers were all good-faith, but they weren't actually applicable to the question.
 
in other news I wish it was that time of the year when bobince publishes a blog post.
 
@badpssockpuppet Any particular reason you're choosing to mention that now?
 
@Trufa Yup, that's me.
 
@PopularDemand because I wish to read a new bobince blog post now, rather in another distant point in the future
 
2:43 PM
Oh, @badpssockpuppet remember how you were wondering what Python has in common with Perl?
Obviously it's not the syntax. :)
But, their handling of lists is quite similar.
 
I imagine dicts can't be that different too
 
Right. Those are basically hashes in Perl.
 
are lists mutable, immutable, both..?
see list v tuple in python
 
One really nice thing that isn't built into Perl, though you can do it in many ways: for something in list.
List are mutable. There is no immutable list that I know of.
 
well Perl should still have list comprehensions?
e.g. [x*2 for x in [1, 2, 3]] → [2, 4, 6]
 
2:47 PM
I'm not sure to what extent, but lists are a core feature of Perl.
 
inbuilt complex data types are always a boon
 
@badpssockpuppet I don't think it does, exactly...you have to use map
 
@TimStone something like map([1,2,3], lambda x: x*2)?
 
Yeah, I think it's like map { funct } (list) or something.
Then there's Perl 6's hyper operators, apparently, which I was not aware of.
10 <<+>> (1, 2, 3, 4) yields (11, 12, 13, 14) it seems.
 
Yeah, I'm still learning the ins and outs of Perl 5. I have a decent understanding, but it still doesn't feel very fluid to me yet. So, Perl 6 is gonna have to wait. :)
 
2:59 PM
Perl 6 is like PHP 6 anyway. Funny how that works out. :P
 
heh good point
 
@TimStone uuuh
so 10 <<<>> (9, 10, 11) would yield (True, False, False)?
 
I'm not sure, this is the first I've heard of this.
 
There was some language (Haskell?) that let you use operators and functions pretty much interchangeably, so stuff like map(<, (9, 10, 11)) would work. I was a fan
 
3:53 PM
Peeved that my best voted answer was turned into a CW by mod after several votes. I want my reps!
 
@Moshe adonde? meta? tough.
 
@jcolebrand on SO. It was a while ago though.
 
@TimStone what an odd syntax that could have surprising benefit
So when did this chatroom get overrun?
 
Overrun by?
 
nm @Moshe
 
3:57 PM
Meh. Whatever. Sall good.
iCloud next week!
 
oh holy crap, I just remembered I have to leave the office today at 4:30
 
(for better or worse)
 
grrr, stupid short week, I almost forgot
 
@GeorgeMarian - In languages where collection objects are immutable, what do you do to mutate them, make new ones out of the old ones?
 
generally so, yes
 
4:01 PM
Thought so.
 
4:12 PM
Yeah, what he said. For example, in some languages strings are immutable. When you concatenate a string, ti actually creates a new one, even if you're storing it in the same variable.
 
@GeorgeMarian cool :) BTW you have a lot of feeds!
 
LOL Yeah, I'm swimming in them.
 
@GeorgeMarian isn't it too much? doesn't the good stuff get lost?
 
I doubt I read even 10% of the posts though. :) Not that I need to read them all. E.g. I have some feeds from (real world, not programming) architecture blogs, which I only read on occasion when I'm in the mood.
 
I know stuff gets lost on my twitter all the time, but that's because I don't have time to watch it all day, I'm social in other ways ;)
I also rely on places like here to give me real time information about the tech-world ;)
 
4:16 PM
ok fair enough
 
Well, as my dad once said about all the projects he has: It's like carrying water with sieves. You gotta run fast and not worry about what falls through.
2
 
@GeorgeMarian hehe very nice
 
So, the large number of feeds is a sign of my large variety of interests. I tend to read the security related ones quite regularly. I do need to get the programming ones into the rotation some more. But, the feeds aren't the only source of programming information.
 
not on my actual wall
should I post on my wall to make sure that people know that the onion is fake? :p
 
4:19 PM
@jcolebrand no way!
leave it there and post it on reddit
or did you get it from there?
Do you guys remember the meme where the hell is mat
?
 
Can't say that I do.
 
@Trufa got it from there
 
BRB sorry
I'm back sorry
@GeorgeMarian it was a meme about a guy that had danced all over the world
 
Ah, I definitely don't remember that meme.
 
The details are not important but it remember I posted a video on Fb about the guy of the meme talking
and made a amazingly obvious / onion style joke
I left it there for a while
when I came back
 
4:34 PM
I want a parrot.
 
there were 5 comments on people "explaining" me how the world works
 
And an eyepatch.
 
@mootinator who doesn't
 
@Trufa People who enjoy the stereoscopic 3d effect.
 
It is very very hard to express irony in written language
@mootinator ok, fair enough but I was talking about the combo
 
4:37 PM
@Trufa One theory suggests that the eye patch was often a consequence of having the parrot.
 
@mootinator LOL
 
@mootinator hehe
@mootinator and what about the wooden leg?
 
Although the Mythbusters theory on that was pretty cool too.
 
@GeorgeMarian I would like your opinion / advice in another topic if you don't mind
you've had some experience with python right?
 
@Trufa Parrots need a variety of interesting perches?
 
4:40 PM
Just a touch. I've written one Python script so far.
 
@GeorgeMarian even so, it is just general thoughts about functional programming
 
I wrote a Python script for a job interview once. Interviewer said it was the best submission he received. It was the first and last thing I wrote in Python.
 
Heh. Well, in that case, I'm sure I'm not the only one that offer advice in here. :)
 
let's say I have a script
 
@mootinator Nice.
 
4:42 PM
def variance(list):
    avg = float(sum(list))/len(list)
    result = 0
    for x in list:
        result += (x-avg)**2
    return float(result) / len(list)
@mootinator hehe maybe you can help too
 
The whitespace looks off =)
 
ha!
 
@mootinator hehe
there you go
 
woot
 
you could also go with something like this:
print reduce(lambda x,y: x+y,[(x-float(sum(l))/len(l))**2 for x in l])/len(l)
which people seem to love around here
 
4:45 PM
lol
 
my question is, when the hell does it make sense
 
I like readable better.
 
@mootinator the first one?
 
Yes.
 
4:47 PM
Yes me too, but it seems to be incredibly popular amongst the python gurus to use anonymous functions
and functional programming whenever they can
 
Mind you, I use a lot of unnecessarily unreadable LINQ these days.
 
I did wrote the second one first, as an excersiee
and was ten minutes thinking about it
after I got it
I got the first posted one in 30 seconds
 
I would suggest this:
people like lambdas because they are more efficient in the backend, because you're using a certain semantic that is designed for speed. The compiler really can make lambdas more efficient.
However, when you write code, 99% of the time you're writing code for other humans.
 
@jcolebrand Thank you!
 
So you should do it in the long way. And on the off chance that you do optimize for speed (like on a tight inner loop) then you should convert to the lambda only after commenting out (and leaving in place) the existing "long way", with a comment of why and when the lambda was inserted, and that it was for previously profiled bottlenecks
Because, by leaving the old code, you leave what did work, as a record in the sand, for the next wayfarer who has to support that block (which will be you, who will be pissed that he has to maintain a lambda)
 
4:52 PM
Usually, source control is your "record in the sand"
 
bah
you want to blame to find stuff, I want to see it right then
when it's clearly documented, we all know why it exists
 
Commented code always leaves me wondering why it was left there
Is it supposed to come back? Is the other code temporary?
 
when we have to rely on blame or annotate to find what changed, we can get lost in what we were originally doing
@LasseVKarlsen that's why I said leave a comment why it's there still
I agree that dead code needs to be gone
but originally working code that has been swapped out for a lambda ... I imagine there are better ops to be made elsewhere.
 
I agree that you shouldn't write code you or the other maintainers can't maintain or understand
 
I've only seen lambdas done because they were clever, or because they reduced the number of declared functions (which doesn't matter to the callstack, an anonymous function is still a function)
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we have different coding styles. ;) Right @LasseVKarlsen?
 
4:55 PM
Correct
And don't get lured into the "that code is more pythonic" crap
It's your code, nobody elses
 
stackoverflow.com/posts/6168958/revisions <-- thrice closed, thrice reopened!
 
Nice discussions guys
I think I get the point
anyway, like them or not, I'll have to master them I'm guessing
for the one that make more pythonic code
 
if it's debug code and won't serve a purpose later (I mean ... really, you need debug code later? it's too complex! refactor!) then remove it. If it's "I did this really impressive thing which may blow up later" then I say leave the old code in. But I agree with Lasse that it's always in the SCM archives. It's totally up to you on your style.
@Trufa remember to always make it more human readable first ;) nobody will complain, even if they call you a n00b. But then you'll get to sound like the grown-up adult not-at-all-a-13-year-old-script-kiddie that code is human readable first, and why do they have to make theirs look so 1337, can they not code "for others" ;) :P
/afk
 
@jcolebrand thanks for the good advice, I have never worked as a developer yet, I guess I'll re-learn all these things the hard way when I do I guess
 
@jcolebrand Question has been deleted now and will stay off the site
 
5:07 PM
@LasseVKarlsen what was it about?
 
a list of videos on C++ by prominent C++ speakers and programmers
more a blog-post, and certainly not a question
 
@LasseVKarlsen agreed
 
Useful information to be sure, I even bookmarked a couple of those videos, but the post is not fitting for SO, and leaving it up would set a dangerous "counter-precedent" after earlier changes in the rules. So it had to go.
 
@LasseVKarlsen indeed, but so are the majority of the most upvoted question in every category
 
5:13 PM
Some of those questions were posted when the rules were different
 
Parkinson's Law bla ble
@LasseVKarlsen also true
 
@LasseVKarlsen ha! There you go then
@Trufa We all usually do. But it helps to have given a little fore-thought to the matter before the time comes to learn things the hard way
 
@jcolebrand agreed. Plus, you just might avoid some...
 
@Trufa nah, you either do or you don't learn the hard way. There's no "learning some things from others" ... at least, not initially ;)
 
actually I don't really believe that there is any other way than the hard one
people generally learn from mistakes which is the hard way
 
5:28 PM
I loved this title:
Learn Python The Hard Way
 
> Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
4
 
yea, that!
 
@jcolebrand I'm very starry today
@OctavianDamiean lol
 
Just remember that that is a quote, not from me.
 
I know, read it on Programmers SE I think
 
5:30 PM
from dba.SE comments ... however, we gasp do not have a DBA
 
 
2 hours later…
7:08 PM
@jcolebrand And now deleted.
 
It's nice to know this doesn't happen just on SO:
[14:23:13] < Samrey> I can't get WoW to run in wine
[14:24:27] < joshc> do you get an error?
[14:24:33] < Samrey> yup
 
lol
 
Well, you can't argue that he didn't get a perfect answer to his question...
I bet he's a lawyer, never answer questions that weren't asked
> Do you know what time it is?
> Yes I do
 
7:30 PM
@Moshe yeah, see :636707 ;)
@MichaelMrozek that's ... wow
 
Hello
 
'Allo
 
7:59 PM
in a few minutes, we'll be live-streaming the stackexchange podcast. I will post the URL momentarily.
 
:o
@balpha Can he stream some cooler weather too? It's 41 degrees outside, and I'm not down with that.
 
Let's first try to make the internet better. Delaware is next, I promise am sure.
 
@balpha Let's skip Delaware and make Bakersfield better..
god knows they need it
 
What, you're going to bomb delaware to make the internet better?
 
I may need to move.
 
8:07 PM
@TimStone Too late. Launching missile in T-Minus 3....
 
SE Inc. is a Delaware company; if someone bombs it, we'll have to find another tax paradise
 
Just bomb the parts that aren't related to tax paradises
 
@balpha You could use it as an excuse
 
@jcolebrand I'm not sure they make bombs that small.
 
@jcolebrand Your avatar confuses me...
 
8:08 PM
> See, we really did mean to send in those tax forms, but then you see, someone bombed us
 
@TimStone lmao
@Chacha102 how so
 
GIVE UP THE LINK, SPOLSKY
 
@jcolebrand I expect that avatar to be connected to @drascheasdadafsd.. I can't spell it without the autocorrect
 
lol
 
@MichaelMrozek He's waiting for my lunch to finish cooking.
 
8:09 PM
I wanted to give people time to adjust. I need a new avi pic anyways. I might get someone to take one of me tonight. But I really need a haircut first.
Hmm, after I get a haircut I'll post a new avi pic
 
I rushed out early this morning to get a haircut, thinking I had to be back for a meeting at 10:30. Apparently that meeting was cancelled while I was in the chair.
 
@TimStone Now your hair has been molested for nothing...
 
@jcolebrand You need to look your best for your gravatar picture
 
they saw your haircut and decided to cancel the project
 
You should get one of those sweet laser backgrounds
 
8:11 PM
@MichaelMrozek So I should wear one of these?
 
@MichaelMrozek @jcolebrand Yeah, it is really inportant that all 128 x 128 bits look perfect
 
@balpha Weight off my shoulders, thank god.
 
@MichaelMrozek and then I can dance to that safety dance too eh?
 
stack exchange podcast live soon: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/stack-exchange-podcast
 
8:16 PM
yay, more network related stuff and policies I don't get to know about
 
@badpssockpuppet Yay!!!
 
I just started a meme that The Tavern is a place feared by moderators
 
8:30 PM
I don't think you can know you started a meme until long after the fact.
 
I think it takes at least ... six to eight weeks or something
 
By the time you realize it's a meme, it's an old meme.
And therefore lame.
 
That's why I'm a hipster.
 
Anyone else getting "Your login data seems too old; please log in to any StackExchange site to refresh it." for chat.SE?
 
I am not atm, but I have in the past.
 
8:43 PM
Bah.
 
9:16 PM
@mmyers Puppies?
 
I think that went well
Next time, as @Michael said, we need to dream up more actual questions during the show
 
9:30 PM
lol
Yep
 
@jcolebrand Somebody mentioned that questions get asked on meta though, which is accurate; I don't really stockpile questions waiting for the podcast
 
@MichaelMrozek I mentioned that.
in SE Podcast Live Chat on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 34 mins ago, by jcolebrand
Because most of our good Qs go on meta anyways
and I'm out, for the next three+ hours I don't doubt.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:17 PM
@jcolebrand I've pushed out a way for devs to copy OpenIDs around, so I'll be testing, er fixing the remainder of your profiles
sorry it took so long, but this code touched quite a few places and needed reviewing
 
I think he went through and did them manually. o:
 
yeah, like 50% of 'em
can't wait to test this on someone else, muhaha
RAMMING SPEED!
 
I'm sure you could find a few volunteers.
 
in the company, even
 
Though really, why anyone would volunteer to be a test subject for you... q:
yes, aye...there was mention of that the other day...at least 2 as I recall.
 
11:59 PM
Hitting the reputation cap is one of the best feelings ever.
 
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