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12:00 AM
I do love virtualization, and Linode <3
@drachenstern Looks pretty solid. Note that I'm as JS rusty as can be. I need to get up to it, still working on handling canadian ZIP codes.
yesterday, by Dan Grossman
Douglas Crockford
Yahoo Press

Most programming languages contain good and bad parts, but JavaScript has more than its share of the bad, having been developed and released in a hurry before it could be refined. This authoritative book scrapes away these bad features to reveal a subset of JavaScript that's more reliable, readable, and maintainable than the language as a whole-a subset you can use to create truly extensible and efficient code. Considered the JavaScript expert by many people in the development community, author Douglas Crockford identifies the abundance of good ideas that make JavaScript an outstanding object-oriented programming language-ideas such as functions, loose typing, dynamic objects, and an expressive object literal notation. Unfortunately, these good ideas are mixed in with bad and downright awful ideas, like a programming model based on global variables. When Java applets failed, JavaScript became the language of the Web by default, making its popularity almost completely independent of its qualities as a programming language. In JavaScript: The Good Parts, Crockford finally digs through the steaming pile of good intentions and blunders to give you a detailed look at all the genuinely elegant parts of JavaScript, including:Syntax Objects Functions Inheritance Arrays Regular expressions Methods Style Beautiful features The real beauty? As you move ahead with the subset of JavaScript that this book presents, you'll also sidestep the need to unlearn all the bad parts. Of course,
@DanGrossman Yes, but I'm broke too. :-)
I could give it to you for free.
@DanGrossman Okay...
How so?
12:02 AM
The last page of the book says "Try the online edition free for 45 days. Go to oreilly.com/go/safarienabled and enter the coupon code SNOZRBI"
And I need to sign in, no?
I guess so
@DanGrossman Okay, I'm in.
Thank you.
OpenSSH recompiled, now I need to build a newer version of Apache
Now on 2.2.17, better
In another 4 hours, I should pass the PCI scan :/
12:24 AM
I can haz townhallchat?
Interesting stuff going on here...
@drachenstern - I was using $("#div").load("google...."); but I want to grab the data in a variable, not load into a div.
I'm working on $.get now...
  url: "http://whatever.google.com",
  success: function(data) {
    //your data is in data!
@DanGrossman I know, see the Javascript room, please.
@DanGrossman concur
1 min ago, by Moshe


Discussion for JavaScript and the many frameworks - jQuery, Pr...
12:39 AM
nom nom nom ~ I so love slow roasted pork in a rich au jus, with creamy garlicy mashed potatoes, and green beans, and a tall glass of juice to go with
@drachenstern Ah, I wish I had the kind of energy necessary to make such things.
@DanGrossman yo dawg I herd you like data
@TimStone I believe it cost me about $0.30 in energy costs ... and about $6 tops in materials, cos you see, I believe firmly in letting Betty and Hormel do the cooking, at the expense of sodium
goes for two meals too!
You see!!! And the best part, took all of 12 minutes to nuke the whole thing :D
nom nom nom
12:46 AM
Hm, something special is about to happen.
@badp what's that?
@drachenstern Nothing you'd care about.
Try me and see sir ;)
@Moshe you're too much ...
12:53 AM
@drachenstern I'm not in always in touch with the terminologies. I am lazy and fail to Google before asking
@Moshe yes I know this
@Moshe read this blog: wearehathway.com/blog/tech/…
@drachenstern Thanks.
> "We are exceeding the amount of water the city's water system can produce at one time" -- Mythbusters
@DanGrossman I love that episode (assumes it's the flying car from waterjets one)
@drachenstern :nods:
12:58 AM
Thanks guys.
I have to be somewhere in 120 seconds. Cya
@Moshe read this too: zipmaps.net
ok ya'll, THC starts nao!
The first Python version, 0.9.0, was released on Feb 20, 1991. Python 3.2.0 was released exactly 20 years later, on Feb 20, 2011.
@drachenstern You might not want to broadcast your drug use habits so publicly
Heh, I'm using 2.6.
1:01 AM
@DanGrossman yes yes, and if anyone follows the context of this chat for more than ten minutes they know it's a Town Hall Chat :p
@drachenstern The NSA machines sitting on every tier 1 backbone slurping up all the text don't know context! The local authorities have been contacted so that you can be sentenced to 10 times more prison time than if you had run someone over with your car.
@DanGrossman nice ;)
1:31 AM
I have amish macaroni salad. Yum.
@DanGrossman What makes it Amish?
@GeorgeMarian The recipe. Instead of just mayo they use mayo, mustard and vinegar, or somethin'. I don't know but it tastes good and grocery stores in PA sell it
1:59 AM
TIL @ircmaxell's avatar says "Help! I'm trapped in a bar-code factory!"
@DanGrossman Ah, yes. PA.
> Invitations come from your peers. We’ll give members a few invites to distribute to programmers they know and trust. Or, contribute to Stack Overflow (and our other sites), get voted up by a lot of smart people, and you may get an automatic invite.
2:26 AM
everything you wanted to know about the Epic badge (and were afraid to ask)
A: Epic badge with too few days hitting the reputation cap?

wafflesCongrats on getting the Epic badge, it is a really hard badge to get! There are many little subtleties going on that I should explain. Badges look at current rep levels in the DB There are certain edge cases where rep levels in the DB do not match the rep report. The rep report show what you...

@waffles I have a question about the Epic badge: why am I too much of a failure to get it? WHY?
Also, IIRC you're the one responsible for privilege wikis, so I blame you for another user confused by the "view vote counts" wiki
I want to know why rep is so hard for me to get passively!
@drachenstern Seriously; I already posted stuff last week, and they want me to post stuff again?
I asked and answered a question today.
Ignore the fact that Popular Demand had to spoon-feed it to me.
@MichaelMrozek I know!
2:33 AM
@TimStone Most SO answers secretly come from @PopularDemand. He's the puppet master behind the scenes
Wait, we can ask questions? I thought only anonymous Google surfers could do that...
@DanGrossman Well, it was a MSO question. And it wasn't a question, it was a bug report. And it was [status-bydesign]. But, still.
2:46 AM
@DanGrossman I thought there was a maximum age for asking questions.
Ok, I had a good THC. I also have managed to piss the wife off. So I'm gone. I should be back at the "normal" time tomorrow
3:04 AM
Wow, it's amazing to see actual arguments in a chat room...
I've achieved the gapless activity histogram
@Pearsonartphoto Arguments? Where?
I'd probably post in the Teacher's lounge, but one of them is a mod, so...
It's starting to cool off, finally, but it was going on for maybe a good 10-15 minutes...
Someone just started a support chat with me to get help using some other website. "They don't have any support and you do, so I thought you'd help"... ...
3:46 AM
We get that a lot actually.
What is going through their heads? :p
4:18 AM
@DanGrossman LOL
Q: about malloc calloc and realloc

Vikas Balikaiwhenever we write the program using malloc , calloc and realloc where does the varies go and sit, i.e in which part of the memory do they go and reside. also whether the variables (in all cases) are allotted a contiguous space or the variables go and sit wherever the space is available

good candidate for closing as dupe before too many others add less-good answers than the duped question
I'll get back to you on that one in approximately 1000 rep :/
Er, \o/
so why is it that approving/rejecting edit suggestions shows up in the activity log but closing stuff still doesn't?
4:35 AM
That's a good question, I'm not sure if anyone has brought that up yet or not.
Because, we don't want people to know how we voted...oh, wait...
@TimStone it seems to come up frequently, but now I'm confused, if they're going to show edit votes I have to imagine they should show closing votes
Q: Add a "voted to close" activity event somewhere on the user profile page

Jon SeigelOften when I vote to close, I want to go back and check the comments on the question, to see if it's been improved, to comment further, or to answer the question. It would be helpful to add a bit of a trail so I can find those questions again. I'm suggesting adding an event to the Activity page ...

4:41 AM
@DanGrossman So unexpected downtime was worth it, afterall.... ;)
@MarkElliot Oh, in that case it'll get fixed like the envelope was fixed.
@GeorgeMarian sorry, I don't understand
@GeorgeMarian lawlz
@MarkElliot It's only been a year. You gotta give it more time. :)
Now I'm trying to write a mail to send to my users, sending it to myself, and it's ending up getting binned as spam :(
@GeorgeMarian ah, got it, so I have no hope for my other recent suggestion...
4:43 AM
And, even then, it won't be completely fixed. ;)
Q: Show full question or excerpt in suggested edits page for tag-only edits

Mark ElliotIt's difficult to determine whether a suggested edit that consists of only modifications to tags is reasonable without the context of the question. For instance, today I saw this suggested edit and had to click through to the question to determine whether it was worth approving or rejecting. Why...

I would have thought @waffles would have fixed that already. I gave one of my precious up votes to that suggestion. I demand satisfaction!
I hate answering questions where the solution seems blindingly obvious to me.
@mootinator but answering isn't for you, it's for the asker
well, it's not always for you
@mootinator I think I feel the same way about voting...maybe that's where my issue is.
4:45 AM
Well, as often as not I've missed some detail and they think I'm insulting their intelligence.
@mootinator Well, hopefully that means there's a better chance that you'll be the FGITW on that question.
@mootinator Ah, yes. There is that.
X-Spam-Threshold: 95
X-Spam-Score: 100
Precedence: junk
X-Spam-Flag: YES
5:52 AM
Almost done, yay!
I got the query working, now I need to get the string broken up into bits. Then I populate the fields and move on to styling.
6:25 AM
:sends 26,000 mails:
My Google Alerts emails were going crazy today. (:
@MichaelMrozek, notice the last line. Something about a "benevolent dictator". Hehe, isn't that @JeffAtwood's line?
@DanGrossman, how do I attach an image to a PHP mail(); email?
@Moshe Very much manually, by base64-encoding it and generating the appropriate MIME boundaries per the e-mail specification yourself.
OR, you can use a mail library instead of mail().
Any bored jquery experts here? :(
7:07 AM
@DanG interesting. How would that work? I didn't see anything obvious in he documentations.
@Benjol I just started jquery. What's the question?
@Moshe weelll, it's not exactly jquery, it's just trying to navigate through a slightly ambiguous DOM :)
@Moshe, take this page, for example (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/80320/…). from the answer comment box I'd like to get the answer user id, and from the question comment box, I'd like to get the question user id
Simple, except that there are two post-signatures on the question, because waffles edited it...
@Benjol, it's early AM here so I'm on iOS, hence no view source. I would point out that one signature contains "edited" and the other "asked".
That said, find(); might work for you. Hrm... Substring or regulR expression matching?
@Moshe, I'll let you know :)
> <td align="right" class="post-signature">
> <td class="post-signature owner">
different classes
7:15 AM
Is there really no unique ID on either of them?
@Dan, yeah, but the problem is that on the answer, the one I want is just post-signature again
Ah, @DanG good point.
I think I've worked it out though, but with an if/else
  var div = el.parents('div');
  var selector = div.hasClass('answer') ? '.post-signature' : '.post-signature.owner';
  return div.find(selector).find('.user-details > a').attr('href').replace(/[^\d]/g, '');
@Benjol sounds good. Is there no ! In CSS?
@Moshe, dunno
7:16 AM
Well wait. It is used for !important.
@Benjol I think I did this in some fashion in SEModifications if that doesn't work for you. Otherwise I can check if I decide trying to sleep isn't working :P
Ooh, I should rent a beach house
@Benjol, Use something similar to find(".post-signature, .owner:not") to get the edit related sig.
Does that work?
@Moshe, but what does that mean? I do want the one with owner, if there is one with owner, otherwise I want the one without :)
7:24 AM
Ah. I didnt get that. My query gets only non-owner signatures
Well iirc find will return some empty value, perhaps null, if it finds nothing. Check for an owner sig. If that returns nothing, you can try my query. (I didn't test it)
3,000 more mails to send, then I can go to sleep... if I want...
@Benjol, I have to get to sleep but basically, another tip. jQuery's find() takes valid CSS selectors. Google the "not" operator for CSS and use that for your fallback. Btw, when does a post not have an owner sig? Deletion? Cw?
@Moshe when it's an answer
Ok. Gluck. Hope I helped. Nite.
7:31 AM
@Moshe, night, thanks.
@Benjol you can now improve (suggested) edits
essentially 'edit the edit' is supported
A: Please allow tag editing when question is waiting for pending edit votes

wafflesWell I just fixed this an slew of similar requests. If you would like to edit a post that has a pending edit and can not wait, you can click the "improve" button. This button allows you to "edit the edit", add tags and whatnot. At the end of the process when you submit the edit, the communi...

@JeffAtwood, wow!
ooooooo very nice
@JeffAtwood, at this rate, you're going to have to reopen my 'sucky' question so that you can mark it status-completed :D
7:34 AM
@Benjol what is left there ?
I just deleted it
@waffles, can't tell you then :) You'll have to go and look. Not much, IIRC
@JeffAtwood what happens to rep? the original editer still gets some or not?
(my next userscript, FWIW)
not sufficiently punitive for my tastes.. but opinions vary
@Benjol the rep bonus is still applied, but I am open to not providing it, cause the edit did not really go far enough
I think silent rejection is fine
7:37 AM
@JeffAtwood That's what the user info is for. If the person hasn't been back in x weeks, it's not worth it
this also makes rejecting edits a "make me think" .. it becomes friction
Reject.. but now I gotta think why.. uhh...
protip: stop sucking!
then I will accept your edits!
(most edits are fine btw)
Yay! The StackFiddle got posted on StackApps. \o/
yeah the trouble with comments is that they lead to comment wars
@JeffAtwood this refers to what? my screen shot? That's for reviewing low-quality posts, not edits
Q: Stack Fiddle - Easily create a jsFiddle from Stack Overflow

Jonathon Bolster Screenshot About Stack Fiddle is a Google Chrome extension that updates the code blocks on Stack Exchange sites. Each code block gets a header with links that allow you to set its type. Click the code type (HTML / JavaScript / CSS) of the blocks you want to include and then press the 'Se...

7:40 AM
@Benjol how will your user script work? if you reject the edit, the user can't be the target of @username messages?
is there some backdoor where pending edits still trigger @username matches and notifications in comments?
thus, you'd only be "notifying" the post owner with a comment
who did not actually submit the rejected edit.. unless I am misunderstanding something here
@JeffAtwood. Sorry. that screenshot is for comments on low-quality posts. Nothing to do with suggested edits. I should have marked it as 'new topic'...
I see
7:42 AM
The problem is that when I flag stuff, I generally like to say 'something', especially for new users who won't understand. Until now I'd been copy-pasting. This is just to make it easier. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Stack Overflow is so large now that I don't think we have time to help the bad users so much. I don't want to be rude to them, but basically they need to go away.
@JeffAtwood, well this will make it easier for me to make a minimal effort at educating them. Before nuking their rubbish :)
in other words, when you have 2500-3000 questions per day, and many times that for answers.. helping the bad users is simply not going to scale
so true
it IS important for smaller sites, even perhaps SU and SF to some extent
7:45 AM
@JeffAtwood, from your point of view, maybe. But from the point of view of a single reviewer, it doesn't make much difference. I personally can't handle the 3000 questions per day anyway, comments or not.
but once you have critical mass of GOOD users, you stop needing to hand hold the bad users
the only thing you need to do, is prevent the bad users from harming the experience of the good users
that is a different war
@Benjol 2 questions per minute. Come on, keep up!
@JeffAtwood an incredibly difficult war imho
it's a rescue mission (se 2.0 sites) versus a seek-and-destroy mission (SO, SU, SF)
@Jeff, maybe you need to build something like this into the review pages :) erkie.github.com
7:47 AM
helping bad users at SO scale is impossible IMHO
we have the automated review tools and the mandatory question EULA
very few bad users can be reached in my experience
They're generally the users that aren't going to read no matter what you put in front of them.
Mildly related subjective question: after how long does "welcome to %sitename%" become redundant? :)
yes, and they will absorb infinite time from our GOOD users
Do we have a picture book EULA? Maybe cartoon style?
@RebeccaChernoff, aren't you supposed to be working on a video? :)
7:49 AM
e.g. Benjol is a good user and he could be answering something meaningful rather than using his tool to insert a comment for an unreachable user
I know this sounds depressing
maybe it is
OMG ... not even 1 close vote stackoverflow.com/questions/5100628/…
but you have to fight the wars you can win
@JeffAtwood or wasting my time here in chat :) In any case, strictly speaking I should be refactoring some C# right now :)
@Benjol huh?
@waffles And the answer is W3Schools of course! Hahahaha.
7:50 AM
@RebeccaChernoff, just being silly. I think a video tutorial could be good :)
I hate that nobody downvoted that question before me ... lots of people looked at it
@Benjol you should see if @badp finished his video for Gaming. Though that is gaming themed.
Joe Celko got one upvote
its just tragic
oh, I thought you meant Joe was on our site
:sends Joe a letter, "answer a question on StackOverflow, it'll make Jeff's day":
7:52 AM
@waffles voting is way underused I feel like. It frustrated me to no end on WA. Rep levels were so stagnant and the community couldn't vtc at all.
I think that a comic book-cartoon style thingy leaves a better impression. Kinda like what chrome did on its release.
yeah we need some way to convince people to vote more
its almost like I would like to promote the users that voted the most during the day in the /users page
@waffles agree 100%
The problem is doing it in a way that keeps voting meaningful.
good idea, give it to nick
well we do have the suffrage badge
will do
7:55 AM
@JeffAtwood Ok, so people use all their votes on one day, get the badge, and then go back to 0.
one reason some people don't downvote crap is cause they are worried about the sympathy upvote
then your downvote causes the user to gain 8 rep
What if suffrage could be awarded multiple times? I think someone might have suggested this already somewhere...
8 rep? your math sucks @waffles
try 3 rep
hah ... talking about answers :)
for questions it is 3
answers aren't as problematic
7:57 AM
there are a lot more answer votes than question votes, no?
What about a set of badges, used <x> votes on <y> days? Mortarboard = Suffrage, and then a setup like Epic and Legendary?
What do you want to encourage here? Voting, voting on questions, or downvoting on bad questions?
Get people into the habit of voting so that it becomes more a part of regular usage of the site that continues after earning the badge(s) rather than just wham/bam/done.
@Benjol D, all of the above.
@DanGrossman In regards to answer vs. question votes: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/74271/…
8:03 AM
Personally, rep never really comes into my mind when voting. I just tend not to think of voting unless I think a question is interesting, or an answer is good. A naff question is more likely to get a close vote from me...
General voting, voting up good questions, voting down bad questions, voting up good answers, voting down bad answers, voting down posts rather than flagging when that's appropriate, etc.
8:21 AM
Using firebug, how do I work out what the code for a given event on a given element is? so far, I've managed to click through to something which looks like all the javascript for the whole page concatenated into a big blob..
@TimStone:Hi, Mate
8:47 AM
(reading blog) hehe, my oneyear subscription to careers just became a life subscription :)
8:59 AM
@MarcGravell: Hi, Mate, I have a question to you, can i shoot it
@TimPost is being nice today :)
A: Running my own OpenID identity server/service (php)


@MarcGravell: and @Benjol: peoples creating chat rooms, for instance i am able to see chat rooms for iphone, again people creating a room for iphone, is there any restriction for creating duplicate chat rooms, or how i can take this action to moderators
@SankarGanesh, dunno to be honest. Maybe you could flag a message to draw attention to the room. Maybe you could start by pointing people to the pre-existing room(s)...
@Benjol: if flagged that , then what actions will be taken, may i know about that
@SankarGanesh I depends what the moderator decides.
9:11 AM
I only see the obj-c room, nothing else related?
@Benjol:ok, mate
@RebeccaChernoff: Pls see there are two rooms Iphone is a old room and now you cna click created tab and see iphone/ipad room is created yesterday
@RebeccaChernoff:pls see it, already we have objective c , iphone room , now yesterday a new room created in the name of iphone/ipad , pls check it now
Hmm, weird, search only returned 1 room the first time.
@RebeccaChernoff: click chat in your proile , then you can chat rooms, in that pls chosse created tabs , then you can able to see newly created rooms , in that i saw a new room called iphone/ipad,i was wonder, why a new room created in the name of Iphone/ipad because we already have a iphone room, that's why am i asking this question here
I can merge rooms if we want
would need the specific example though
First I would wonder why you prefer the iPhone room rather than the obj-c room? Isn't the point being more inclusive?
Second, @MarcGravell, the dupe check seems to check title only, perhaps checking the room description would help?
9:19 AM
maybe, maybe
ie, I just entered "iPhone" as the name for a new room and I got the 2 iPhone rooms but not the obj-c room, which has iPhone in the description, not title.
but if they're putting that in and checking the box on the dupe check...not sure what else could be done
seems like both those 2 rooms have been around and are just about equally active in terms of messages/wk
@RebeccaChernoff: you are right
perhaps we should ask them why they are estranged?
maybe it is a bracing thing...
vs {
@MarcGravell: how can we stop people creating a new rooms where we have already an existing room for on that
we have some dup detection, but stopping people being dumb is hard
we'll solve that right after we solve duplicate questions on SO
9:24 AM
@SankarGanesh create a new room and put iPhone in as the title and go forward - you'll see the dupe page. Obviously don't override that but if people are doing that what else can be done really? (;
except intervention after-the-fact, the same as elsewhere on the network
@MarcGravell: how can i flag that room as duplicate , so that you can take neccessary actions
@badp: hi, Good Morining
I think you already did
@SankarGanesh flagging is to make people aware of the situation. I think that's been accomplished here. (;
9:26 AM
@SankarGanesh honestly I don't think there's value in forcing him to join your room if he doesn't want to
Though generally you'd want to flag a message in the room - there's no flag for a room as a whole.
meh, pick a message, any message
@RebeccaChernoff: yes, there's no option for flag for a room to be banned
@MarcGravell: we should some kind of actions has to be done, to flagg a whole room , if it duplicate one, am i right
yeah dont add so many features to SO. You will end up getting a giant confusing mountain of poop. ;)
let's just keep it simple, eh?
9:28 AM
Heh, I'd make a suggestion, but people would think I was serious and then I'd get blamed for it.
@badp, morning, Rebecca said you were working on a video for gaming?
@Benjol Yup, and today I'm on Windows so I can open its "source"!
@badp, is it finished yet?
nope. Need some timing adjusting (it's too fast) and voice-overs and maybe some trimming down.
@badp Who's doing the voiceovers? :)
9:32 AM
@MarcGravell: ok, after picking any Message, what i have to do
@Benjol TBD, so far.
@SankarGanesh, the interesting thing I am noticing here is that you aren't in any of these rooms. Nor do you show as frequently being in any of them. You seem to have a vested interest though?
is it a android versus iphone thing ? You have a lot of android tags lol @SankarGanesh
anyone interested in languages? you might want to follow my french language proposal: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/29480/french-language
@Reno: and @RebeccaChernoff: no , i am guy who doesnot want malpratice, i love android , iphone and blackberry and symbin, i m very working on android , but i m giving my time to spend in iphone too start learning that too
9:37 AM
Q: Should we do anything about the huge language mess on Area51?

Borror0There's a long list of languages proposal on Area51, varying from an all encompassing language site to a focus one language site like the successful English Language & Usage. When I say they vary, I do mean that. As I just said, there's a site to contain all the languages question, whether...

@Jez, you're entering a minefield.
@SankarGanesh click on the drop-menu (left of the message) - there should be "flag for moderator" - but we already know about the iphone rooms
@RebeccaChernoff: and @Reno: I personally, Stack is our resource, we should be active , if any malpratice done here, it
boom boom boom
And I proposed English/French translation, so.. choose your weapon :)
im kidding man
9:38 AM
@MarcGravell: Well, may i know what action you will take on this
english/french translation would have a big overlap with 'good french usage', would it not?
and isnt stackexchange about creating lively communities?
unnecessary balkanisation is bad
@SankarGanesh, Marc is combining the rooms. Goes back to being curious that you aren't in the rooms - you'd see if you were.
@Jez, check this out too (if you haven't already): discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/questions/272/…
9:39 AM
@RebeccaChernoff: hmm, @MarcGravell: thanks for your action
Yay for 9kers who comment on CW answers, "It's wrong" without fixing
benjol: yep seen it
seems to me to be an open discussion
@RebeccaChernoff: :)
@MarcGravell: and @RebeccaChernoff: i m very happy, @MarcGravell: thanks for your immediate action, thank you very much, mate
From one of my co-workers (just now) : "you just exponentially increased run time in the good way (decreased it)"
(I added a timeout to CURL)
I don't know if I should cheer or cry.
I think when you can't decide between those two, you're supposed to drink. (;
9:46 AM
Hi! (:
@RebeccaChernoff Sometimes, I wish I did.
> You've earned the "Enthusiast" badge. See your profile

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