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10:00 PM
Hmm, I haven't been skiing in quite a while..
 
Me neither. I miss it, a lot
 
Yeah, it's on my todo list now, heheh.
 
I haven't been in, idk, probably 10 years.
 
Me neither. I need to get back in shape and do some skiing.
Right now, my right knee and shoulder are still killing me from last night.
 
I started skiing when I was five, but it's probably been about eight years since the last time I went.
@GeorgeMarian This might need more context.
 
10:02 PM
@TimStone You probably don't wanna know, but it was a lot of fun.
 
@TimStone HAHA. I was going to make some joke but I had second thoughts
 
@GeorgeMarian So, we received the 'Please Refresh' alert, we pressed refresh, and now we want something that tells us we've updated?
 
15 hours ago, by George Marian
AFK for a bit, just gotta give the gf some of my time.
 
@TylerChacha Pretty much.
 
@GeorgeMarian Or we recieved the 'Please Refresh' alert, pressed ok, and now we want something that tells us we still need to refresh.
ok
 
10:03 PM
@TimStone You got me. :)
 
AHAHAHAHAHA
 
Hahahah, oh boy.
 
I dunno what is says when your shoulder is messed up because of something like that. Other than it musta been really good. ;)
I guess it also goes to show that mice are ergonomic atrocities.
 
...no comment...
 
@TheUnhandledException And yet I have so, so many.
 
10:05 PM
@TimStone Oh I have plenty. I am sending none ;-)
 
@GeorgeMarian They have those sideways mice now so that your arm isn't twisted all the time, but that confuses me since your arm assumes the same position to type, and it seems like a futile effort at that point.
@TheUnhandledException I second this motion. :P
 
@TimStone Yah, I've seen those and considered getting one. I still miss my old Logitech ball mouse, which they no longer make and haven't replaced with anything similar.
@TimStone LOL
Motion being the key word? ;)
 
Zing!
 
@GeorgeMarian There we go. I've put it in so that if you've updated, it changes the startup message to "You've updated' and keeps it around for twice the amount of time.
 
shakes head
 
10:09 PM
What can I say? One-track mind... ;)
 
@GeorgeMarian The only problem is that in order for you to see it... I have to update it..
:P
 
The fact that we were able to get here from something as tame as skiing...heh.
 
If you'd like though, tell me when you have the latest and I'll trigger it
 
I'll just go ahead and /blame @TheUnhandledException for having snow.
 
10:11 PM
heh
 
I'll accept that blame. The rain stopped so we do still have snow, even if it's only 0.5" :-)
 
@TylerChacha I think I've seen it, but go for it.
 
there
 
Now, should I see the pop-up about a new version?
 
10:12 PM
Yes
err
You know the little green thing on the bottom
 
Is it polling on a timer or something?
 
that says "Running blah blah blah blah blah"
 
@TylerChacha Yup.
 
When you update, it changes to "You've updated to blah blah blah blah blah"
I'm not sure if that is a big enough change..
 
@TylerChacha I got them both, the update one was partially over top of the normal one.
 
10:13 PM
@TimStone We are talking about the one after you refresh
 
Yes
 
@TylerChacha I haven't seen that, I don't believe. I've seen one that says "Downloading..."
 
Ok, let me trigger it, and look at the green thing after you refresh after it is downloading
go
 
Ah, there we go. It showed up that time, w/o the "Downloaing..." on top of it.
 
So here is the workflow BTW
 
10:15 PM
Ok, if i actually wait for the message to go away before refreshing, it seems to work fine.
 
Ah, OK.
 
You refresh -> the Browser sees that it needs to download -> The download alert pops up -> The browser downloads it -> You get the pop up alerting you to refresh
 
Looked alright that time.
 
Finally, You refresh -> you see the "You've updated" alert -> Done
 
@TylerChacha Which is a bit odd, though I can see you not wanting to poll for changes.
What about checking for changes on save?
 
10:16 PM
Right now I don't control when it checks for updates
 
contemplates cheesecake for breakfast
 
The browser does that, I'm simply alerting you to what the browser is doing
 
Yeah, I figured that was the case.
I'm just pointing out that it's odd behavior that should eventually be changed. :)
 
Every refresh the browser looks at a file on my server and checks to see if it changes, if it has changed, it downloads the entire application
Yeah .. I'll look at ways to more gracefully update it
 
OK, so linking these debug folders to each other in sequential order will be too difficult and may not work anyway, since when the cookie is lost the chain will probably break anyway. So I am making another folder which lists them all by IP address, and within that, by time
 
10:19 PM
@TylerChacha Doesn't it do that anyway on a refresh? Isn't reloading at that point redundant?
 
That should allow me to follow a user through the site pretty well and see where they lose their cookie
 
@TheUnhandledException heh
 
@GeorgeMarian I know. more directories :-p
 
Ah good, I'm convinced that my code changes work well enough. Now to finish fixing everything else that I unnecessarily changed in the process..
 
@TimStone Isn't clean-up after debugging fun? (Or, any code clean-up for that mater...)
 
10:21 PM
@GeorgeMarian The entire app is cached on your computer (Application cache). That means that everytime you go to 102content.com/triton, the files are served from your computer, not my server. However, every refresh your browser attempts to contact one file from my application and see if that file has changed. If it has, the browser downloads all of the files related to my app and caches them. the next time you reload, you are now seeing those new files
The difference is that instead of having to download all 15-20 files from my server everytime you view the page, you only download them once, and then they are all stored on your computer.
 
Oh, this wasn't even debugging stuff...Just in the process of making these changes I decided it would be a good idea to change other stuff that had gotten messy but didn't actually need to be changed for the sake of making the change that I was making. In fact, there's a possibility that there'll be more to go wrong with the unnecessary changes...but hopefully not. ;)
 
Ah, the tangled web we weave. ;)
 
Unfortunately I'm not even satisfied with the extent of those changes, but I suppose this is good enough to tide me over until I write 2.0
 
I'm not a big fan of "good enough" either, but sometimes you just have to leave well enough alone.
 
10:23 PM
Same here. Seems like I have to do that more and more recently :-(
 
So actually Triton works a lot like Firefox. When you start up Firefox, it checks for updates. Then downloads them, then requires you to 'refresh' (restart) Firefox to get the new version.
 
@TylerChacha That makes sense. It's just a bit odd since I expect the browser to reload all those files if they've changed whenever I refresh.
 
@GeorgeMarian Ya
 
I.e. it feels like a second layer of chaching.
 
I would have made a non-cached version for you, but the stuff we were updating required the cache to be there (we were making it smooth to update the cache)
 
10:27 PM
My question would be is your caching necessary?
 
I'm using the App cache mainly because I use Triton on school campus which doesn't have perfect wifi
Far from perfect Wifi
So the idea behind using both localStorage for the database and Application Cache for the files is to make the app completely available offline
 
Hmmm... Doesn't the browser already cache the files?
 
In some sense yes, but not to the point that it will allow you to completely use the application while offline
It is still 'caching' but it doesn't preform the same way Triton does when you are offline
 
Ok, then there is some value to doing your own caching.
 
Yes
But I should make it easy for someone to bypass the part of the app that starts the application cache
for instance, I run a local copy and because I'm not running PHP the app cache fails to ever start
 
10:34 PM
@TylerChacha Huh? You lost me there.
 
(the file that makes the app cache work is generated by PHP: 102content.com/triton/etc/mf.php)
 
Ah, you mean a local copy in no way connected to a server.
 
OK. Finally some possible good news for me!
 
Hooray!
 
Right
 
10:35 PM
@TheUnhandledException So many inappropriate comments. ;)
 
Found a new place I could possibly move to, a rent-to-own which is affordable and located where I ultimately wanted to buy anyway!
 
Nice
 
Yeah. And it's nice too
 
nice
 
10:36 PM
Great mountain view, awesome backyard, large master bath, good location, looks to be in great shape
I have to say, if all the horrible shit with my landlord's wife actually pushed me to find this, when I otherwise wouldn't have, that would make it all worthwhile. And that would be sweet justice (or something)
6
 
Ooh...I've been wanting to give up on the apartment living. Our current place is a nice and cheap. And there is some reason for it being cheap. The entire building rattles under various conditions.
@TheUnhandledException Sometimes it takes such experience to truly motivate us.
 
This is true @George
 
Hi all.
 
Hey there @Moshe
 
10:49 PM
@TheUnhandledException - Shabbos just ended, I gotta get a ride to where the camp reunion is. My CD is being distributed tonight and I wanna be there.
 
Awesome, congrats!
 
@Moshe Hola.
@Moshe Cool. I'm assuming music?
 
@GeorgeMarian custom flash slideshow
(Right @Moshe?)
 
A flash website on a CD.
Music, video, photo, and more.
 
Interesting. Like a portfolio?
 
10:53 PM
dang it .. kdb is back..
 
Rejoice! Rejoice! @Rejoicerejoicekbdisback is back!
 
@TheUnhandledException I beat you to the joke..
 
@The that is confusing!
 
@TylerChacha Your was less to type ;-)
 
Since when is the unhandled exception just The?
 
10:54 PM
@GeorgeMarian yea, but it's for a sleep away camp. It's camp memories and whatnot.
 
@Rejoicerejoicekbdisback since @George is lazy ;-)
 
@rej since it only takes 3 letters to ping someone..
 
Camp songs. Camp videos. Camp photos.
 
@Rejoicerejoicekbdisback "The that is confusing" is confusing
 
@Tyl @The I see!
 
10:55 PM
Anyhow.
 
@Moshe cool
 
@The the "the that is confusing" is correct
 
Hey ping does not work on iOS, I assume. No flash.
 
@Rejoicerejoicekbdisback head explodes
 
@moshe really?
 
10:56 PM
@TheUnhandledException Sure, I like to think I'm appropriately lazy. Dunno what has to do with anything... ;)
 
Ping me @Tyler
Had my sound off.
 
@Moshe ping ping
 
Yup, ping works through flash.
 
@GeorgeMarian I just re-read the transcript. I am really confused :-)
 
No sound.
 
10:57 PM
@TheUnhandledException heh
Makes two of us.
 
I thought you said "@The that is confusing", lol
 
@Geo, @The, the cool thing is that this camp cd runs on Mac and Windows.
Flash projectors, heh.
 
@Moshe Heh, a bunch of Georges, other than myself, will be scratching their heads soon enough.
 
I designed the album art this year, unlike the last two years.
@Geo, let em scratch themselves bald. Keep the room quiet for a bit, while their hands are too busy to type.
 
11:00 PM
Hey, question:
Do comments with pings in them have a smaller chance of being starred?
 
Only if they also include "oy", @Moshe
 
Heh.
 
(@Tim, don't fail me now!!1!!1)
2
 
1!!1!!! ???
 
11:01 PM
@Moshe Mocking script kiddies and teenage girls who say OMG PONIES!!!11!!1
 
@TheUnhandledException I have to star your vote of confidence in my reliability.
 
Oh, omg.
 
But not my "oy", aw, sad!
 
Oy, sad.
Not aw, sad.
Why is my avatar not appearing on my iPad?
 
OK, PHP header / HTTP request debug dumping module complete
Now just waiting for the client to answer the 8 questions I've asked her...
 
11:05 PM
Heh.
 
So, question.
 
Hit us @Rebecca
 
For keyboard navigation/shortcuts on the SE sites, are you a fan of Q, H, T, U single key shortcuts or something like what Google uses: G, H ... G, Q etc?
 
@RebeccaChernoff You might need to elaborate a bit on account of me not really knowing what Google uses. ;)
 
@TimStone basically when you want to go somewhere, you do G followed by the destination specific shortcut.
 
11:09 PM
Ah, gotcha. :)
 
@RebeccaChernoff Single key shortcuts may be a pain if you believe the cursor is in edit box, when it isn't.
Or would they not even be in effect at that point?
 
ok @GeorgeMarian I have this module installed on the site which was having issues. It certainly does generate a lot of directories. I'm going to install a cron job to archive these hourly :-p
 
@TheUnhandledException haha
 
@GeorgeMarian I wouldn't think they'd be active if you're focused on a text field.
 
Is anyone aware of any synagogues in their area? I may have a program to sell them soon.
 
11:13 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Yah, I guess that would cause bigger issues, like not being able to type. lol
 
OK. Now that this is done, I'm off to install the new alarm system I bough because of you-know-who. Catch you guys later!
 
@GeorgeMarian Minor detail really.
 
@RebeccaChernoff How about the other way around? Thinking your in a text field, hitting a single key shortcut and going someplace.
 
@Geo, @Reb, sounds a lot like vi, which, incidentally, I never learned to use.
 
@Moshe A good point.
 
11:16 PM
@Geo, @Reb, sounds a lot like vi, which, incidentally, I never learned to use.
You are discussing shortcuts for what? Chat?
 
"Reb"? |:
 
So in general?
Just going for the three letter minimum for ping. I'm on iPad, typing is tedious.
 
@RebeccaChernoff @Moshe Yah, this question.
 
@RebeccaChernoff, I'm not familiar with backwards grimaces, sorry. No clue what that jumbled mess is at the end of your question.
 
I don't get why people have so much trouble typing on iDevices. I get it being annoying having to switch to the numbers/punctuation keyboard, and then again if you're going for symbols, but besides that, what's the big deal?
 
11:18 PM
Is there no tab key on the iPad?
 
Not much, but it just takes a fraction of a second longer that on regular keyboards.
There is no tab key
 
@GeorgeMarian no auto complete functionality on mobile view, but it looks like @MarcGravell has just arrived to take the feature request. (;
 
Or an app, with write access.
The iPad should have a richer mobile view, imho
 
@RebeccaChernoff Well, in that case tab key or no, it's gotta suck. :)
If it wasn't for autocomplete, I would only be using 3 letters to ping people.
 
Anyway, my question was in relation to:
5
Q: Navigate without touching the mouse

TomI hate touching the mouse, is there a way to navigate through stack overflow questions without doing so? I'm thinking something akin to Google's search results (not sure how long this has been a feature of theirs). Once your at the google homepage, you can type your query then navigate the resu...

 
11:21 PM
You often don't need it. When you do, the app in question will often compensate.
 
got distracted
Hmm...
 
You often don't need it. When you do, the app in question will often compensate.
 
And there is also this past question
20
Q: Add keyboard shortcuts to Stack Overflow

Gavin MillerJust a thought, but would Stack Overflow be able to add some keyboard navigation shortcuts? Something along these lines: Shortcut Key - Page to navigate to: H - Home Q - Questions T - Tags U - Users B - Badges N - Unanswered ...

 
@RebeccaChernoff I difinetely support the idea of keyboard shortcuts. I try to avoid the mouse as much possible.
 
11:22 PM
@RebeccaChernoff I'm thinking the double-key combination perhaps. I like single key in chat because there's a notion of a selected message, but that doesn't necessarily apply for SE sites at large.
 
I was just wondering if single key shortcuts may lead to unexpected user interaction scenarios.
 
@RebeccaChernoff huh what now? just reading back...
 
whistles and looks everywhere but at @MarcGravell.
 
you can try to look innocent, but none of us are buying it...
 
@MarcGravell Autocomplete for mobile browsers. After you fix my authentication issue... ;)
 
11:24 PM
@TimStone Figured I'd work on the static shortcuts for things in the header first and then bring in prev/next navigation after that.
 
@Geo, only if the shortcuts are enabled in the text box.
 
@RebeccaChernoff Aye. :)
 
E
Oops, disregard that.
 
@Moshe Single vs double key shortcuts make no difference. They need to be disabled on text input fields
 
@GeorgeMarian that would be a PITA to implement. The... er... "good" news about access is yes: there's definitely something funky happening. I haven't had chance to look in the last 30 hours - family weekend. But I plan on looking more.
 
11:25 PM
@tim. You mean "oy"?
 
G, H for navigation to the home page: guess nobody can type "though" anymore.
 
...No. :P
Hahah
 
@MarcGravell Good to know I'm not imagining things. :) (And, as if, I don't expect you to make it your top priority.)
 
@MarcGravell Why can't we reply to messages by pressing on them in mobile chat, by the way? They get all selected-y, but do nothing.
 
@RebeccaChernoff As long O and Y aren't shortcuts for anything...
 
11:28 PM
@GeorgeMarian Now that's just silly. Everybody knows that my requests are top priority. q:
@GeorgeMarian oy.
 
@RebeccaChernoff "Why did I just offer a 500 point bounty on a question?"
 
11:42 PM
19
A: Why were 9 of my questions deleted? and -100 for each of them?

Jeff AtwoodI checked, and these are all valid offensive votes, on questions that were already heavily downvoted. You might consider whether some of your questions are really appropriate for Stack Overflow if that many community members find them offensive. Bear in mind that repeatedly asking many low qual...

Jeff! Has! Spoken!
I don't know anything about the user or situation in question, but... that's gotta hurt.
 
@PopularDemand ...10.5 months ago?
 
@PopularDemand You don't remember acidzombie24?
 
@RebeccaChernoff Yes. I just saw the answer for the first time.
@GraceNote No, I don't. Should I?
 
@PopularDemand Check the "deleted tab" and pick the bottommost option for the last two days.
 
@GraceNote SO or MSO?
 
11:44 PM
> you have three full "pages" of questions with a score of -1 or lower
ouch
 
Alternatively, I could just say "Dunning-Krieger effect"
I didn't know you had 10k on SO
 
@GraceNote I don't.
I see them now.
Since the original question referenced his SO posts, I thought you might have just assumed I did have 10k there.
 
No, I'm pretty sure I keep track of your progress
 
Oh, that user. I forgot his username. Lame, I got 60 rep for that answer.
 
...I have a feeling that sounds a lot sketchier than I intended.
 
11:47 PM
@GraceNote Stalker!
 
@GraceNote Seems to be Dunning-Kr__u__ger, FYI.
 
@PopularDemand Apparently my mind is on nothing but war, then.
 
@GraceNote Thanks. Now whenever anyone says "so why don't your put your real info in your profile?" I can provide a link.
 
@PopularDemand Happy to be of service. ♪
 
11:48 PM
Man, I love psychology.
For those who had no gorram clue what Grace and I were talking about:
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence...
 
@PopularDemand Oh, I deal with people like that all the time. I didn't realize it had a name. ;)
Oh, hey. I'm reading a book by Bertrand Russell.
 
Mmm, delete hammer is tasty.
 
Speaking of tasty, I really should make something to eat.
 
Yeah, I suddenly realized that I was starving.
 
@TimStone But by then, it was too late! I hadn't the energy to acquire or consume food or drink!
 
11:56 PM
heh
 
withers away and dies
 
Which is why I'm going to make something quick and easy, like bacon and eggs.
 
@GeorgeMarian You have an interesting definition of "quick and easy."
 
Fair enough. I supposed slapping some Nutella on a slice of bread would be both quicker and easier.
 
Bacon and eggs is pretty quick and easy.
 
11:59 PM
If i had a Hot Pocket or something like that, I'd like go for that.
 

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