The future

user102937

4:23 PM

@Catija: Is this the new normal now? Make unilateral changes, ask for feedback later? (or perhaps, not even bother?)

7

Catija

The fact that the post exists for the moderators' review kinda belies that, @RobertHarvey

user102937

Were the post notice changes run past the moderators first?

terdon

@RobertHarvey No, that's the old normal. They are actually sharing stuff now, which is certainly a step in the right direction.

2

user102937

@Catija I'll rephrase my question. Is the new policy to put proposed changes to the platform into the Mod Teams first for review? Or was that only done as a courtesy to the mods so that they don't get blindsided by their communities?

2

user102937

@terdon Someone leaked a Mod Teams post onto meta, using a disposable account.

terdon

4:33 PM

I know.

user102937

Then you also know what I'm talking about.

Erik Reinstate MonicA

It did say the change would happen the 13th of November, so the mods have more than a week to give feedback, even if the post didn't ask for any.

Rubiksmoose

@RobertHarvey We do. And also, once again, a leak is only presenting one side of a story and clearly had an agenda.

4

Hitodama

..... Think it is time to go and buy some popcorn. Seems the next episode is about to get aired.

2

PM 2Ring

@RobertHarvey FWIW, it only got 11 (or so) views before it got zapped.

user102937

4:37 PM

Most of them from this room, apparently.

PM 2Ring

It's a rough gauge.

user102937

I'm not here to stir up any more trouble. In a way, I'm glad that SE has decided to focus on the site mechanics for awhile, and the way they are doing seems to be really constructive. I just wish they would consider finding a way to clean up the Superfund site, that's all.

Zoe the transgirl

@PM2Ring It was also archived 8 seconds after being posted. Might've gotten more views after it got nuked. /shrug

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell more like rants, but yeah... people are not happy.

PM 2Ring

@Hitodama You might need to wait a while. I assume nobody's going to perpetuate the leak in here.

terdon

4:42 PM

@RobertHarvey then can we please drop it? We'll have plenty of time to discuss it, trying to do so now only stirs up trouble.

Rubiksmoose

@Tinkeringbell up to you but might it be better if we move the previous discussion elsewhere?

Hey :)

rene

← 20 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta

@Rubiksmoose hey! I took the advice from @Tink and moved that discussion here

Feeds

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rene

Don't make it blow up ... cheers all

2

room topic changed to Room for a future discussion ;): The future is here [chat] [discussion]

user102937

Oh, look. A new room. :)

rene

4:56 PM

Yes, and you have power here ;)

user102937

Ah, nostalgia.

Rubiksmoose

For the record, the leaker is obviously either deliberately misrepresenting things or has a vastly different take than every other mod I've seen talk in the room.

6

rene

waffles

Rubiksmoose

So, readers, take note.

user102937

Well, it might be worth SE's while to have an, erm, discussion with the folks in there about leaks. As in, don't.

rene

4:59 PM

Yeah, I assume the so mod team should be kept as private as the TL transcript.

terdon

@RobertHarvey That's putting it mildly...

Rubiksmoose

@RobertHarvey We're just as pissed about it as SE could be I would think so it's not just SE that wants a ... discussion.

terdon

I really don't understand why anyone would do this. It seems like petty malice for no imaginable gain.

Rubiksmoose

I don't get it either.

terdon

Also, @RobertHarvey, sorry for trying to shut you down there, but I really think that discussing this in the Tavern would be very counterproductive.

user102937

5:02 PM

NP

terdon

Plus, I keep forgetting you don't have your diamond anymore. D'oh!

Rubiksmoose

And honestly, the range of emotions on this change I've seen expressed ranged from meh, to full support. This shouldn't have been dramatic, and it needn't have been.

mag

what happened in general

I was cycling home when the tavern discussion started

rene

@mag something was leaked from the SO Mod team

mag

sigh

really?

PM 2Ring

5:06 PM

@Rubiksmoose Upgrading the CC license from 3 to 4 shouldn't've been dramatic either... This has way more potential for controversy.

Rubiksmoose

@PM2Ring It really doesn't.

Doesn't mean it's not going to get it, but at it's core, there is no controversy here, it's all being manufactured.

PM 2Ring

Do I need to remind anyone about the bad vibes that arose with Documentation?

Script47

@Zoethetransgirl very risky business posting that link.

Feeds

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Rubiksmoose

I have no idea what that is TBH. All I'm saying is that there's nothing controversial here.

PM 2Ring

5:14 PM

@Rubiksmoose Fair enough. I guess I can't be more explicit without mentioning the topic of the leak.

Zoe the transgirl

@Script47 meh

Rubiksmoose

And by "here" I mean in the actual facts. The leaker's controversial opinions/suppositions are not supported by any facts and seem to have been designed to create drama where there otherwise would be none.

terdon

@Zoethetransgirl I admit I kinda wish you hadn't. There really isn't any benefit I can see to starting drama over this before its time.

Stevoisiak

I didn't notice a link posted

Kevin B

it was in the comments

Zoe the transgirl

5:16 PM

if I hadn't posted it, someone else would. I got notified about its existence thanks to the archive.org plugin, and given the link repairing activities of a lot of network users, I highly doubt I'm the only one using it

PM 2Ring

Is it ok to post the URL for the benefit of Mag & other 10k+ people who didn't see the post? I still have that tab open.

Tinkeringbell

Rather not..

Stevoisiak

There's an archive plugin for SE?

Zoe the transgirl

No, there's a general archive.org plugin

PM 2Ring

Not a problem.

Raedwald

5:17 PM

That deleted post didn't simply leak the information. It tried to frame the situation in a particular way.

Tinkeringbell

Thank you :)

Zoe the transgirl

chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wayback-machine/… addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/wayback-machine_new

Kevin B

I mean... if the "source" it provided is the source, the post doesn't need to do much framing.

Rubiksmoose

@Raedwald It straight-out manufactures things. The more controversial aspects have no factual basis and are purely speculative and designed to create drama.

rene

← 12 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta

M.A.R.

5:19 PM

WTH is that

Emilie

@M.A.R. What Tinkeringbell said :)

← 2 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta

M.A.R.

@Thefuture

Wait, no, OBJECTION. They're not pingable.

Rubiksmoose

Never been in the room :)

terdon

@KevinB And yet, it did.

Rubiksmoose

Not to mention the "source" is also completely devoid of the context in which it was written which was in response to previous feedback.

Script47

5:33 PM

I knew I wasn't going insane...

M.A.R.

Exactly

I'm just nodding in affirmation so people think I know what they're talking about

Rubiksmoose

@Script47 Whoa there, we haven't proven that yet. Just not in this case ;-)

PM 2Ring

6:05 PM

Oops. They tried it again. This time it lasted about a minute.

Rubiksmoose

Lol

This is honestly looking pretty sad on their part. What's the plan here eh?

PM 2Ring

I assume they want to stir up trouble.

I guess they're upset that SE want to roll out yet another change. Sure, they're showing the mods, but I get the impression that the change will happen, and that's not up for negotiation.

Rubiksmoose

@PM2Ring I'm not sure any mods would have wanted to convince them not to change it. Well, I guess there's at least one. Seems like a fairly minor change overall, and the reasons for reverting it seem pretty solid.

rene

This looks like a bit over the top resistance to change.

PM 2Ring

@Rubiksmoose Ok. Yes, it's a reversion. I'm not 100% convinced that it should be reverted, but it doesn't bother me too much. And my objections are impossible to state without spilling the beans.

Rubiksmoose

6:21 PM

> I'm not 100% convinced that it should be reverted, but it doesn't bother me too much.

I think a lot of people fall along this line (including me, really).

Regardless, it doesn't seem like the change itself that is trying to be weaponized in the leaks.

PM 2Ring

6:43 PM

@Rubiksmoose True, it's not the change itself they seem to be complaining about, it's the alleged motivation for the change.

Stevoisiak

The worst thing about the leak is, from SE's perspective, they were punished for communicating the change to moderators

Which doesn't encourage future communication

Rubiksmoose

Yup. It's honestly infuriating. SE is finally attempting to make some attempts to communicate with us (even if not in the way we want exactly yet) and them some doofus goes off and decides they don't care about any of that.

Stevoisiak

Do not punish the behaviour you want to see (mild language)

M.A.R.

But what should we punish then

Stevoisiak

I mean, if the announcements were going to go public soon, then we can let them know loud and clear once that happens

I have no doubt the community will let their voices be heard

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