Tavern on the Meta

Jan Dvorak

4:33 AM

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166502/…

Jan Dvorak

4:45 AM

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166504/…

Braiam

@JanDvorak they don't get any spam, do they?

Jan Dvorak

now they do

Braiam

2 edited posts....

@medica manners? I'm helping you guys to get some flags since apparently you don't get enough users, and you talk about "manners"? Go read your own moderator meta Q about spam and talk to me again. — Braiam 12 secs ago

this needs some upticks meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/4450/…

Jan Dvorak

5:00 AM

@Braiam gave one

Apparently, Medica didn't like "thanks, now you made all our flags useless"

Braiam

@JanDvorak apparently they don't want help... there are people out there that, for more that you like to, can't be helped

I dropped that

Jan Dvorak

@Braiam maybe you shoudn't have worded your comment this way

Braiam

@JanDvorak you see a +19k rep user editing out spam... what's your first and second through?

after you flagged it

Jan Dvorak

@Braiam yet you should stay polite

Braiam

I was polite... what part was "rude"?

I mean, I didn't call names, nor otherwise...

Jan Dvorak

5:08 AM

"thanks, now you made all our flags useless" doesn't sound exactly good

Braiam

it's harsh, but unlikely rude

Jan Dvorak

no need to be harsh on first encounter

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166507/…

Braiam

how the heck they got that image?

@TimPost ^?

Jan Dvorak

#3 is gone, and the post that survived the longest is the one where the body said "please flag"

Braiam

I even posted some in the bridge and RA room

at this hour flags are kind of slow

Sumurai8

5:31 AM

Good afteryesterday to all the creatures in this chat, where some of these creatures tend to be human.

Jan Dvorak

6:19 AM

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166514/…

phone number edited out...

Braiam

sighs

Jan Dvorak

@Sumurai8 - I was unaware that a minor edit resets flags. Sorry. — medica 2 mins ago

le sigh

@medica have you read the meta post we have pointed you to? It is written there. — Jan Dvorak 32 secs ago

Jan Dvorak

6:47 AM

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166517/…

TGMCians

hey \o

Laszlo Papp

cv-pls-duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/23318387/qt-save-screeshot-of-gui

TGMCians

done

Shadow Wizard

@JanDvorak wow he got better, now posting images as well

Jan Dvorak

worse, he no longer includes a phone number in the title or the first 140 characters of the body

or any of the nice keywords

Shadow Wizard

6:51 AM

@JanDvorak we must give him the credit for being smart

Jan Dvorak

We don't want to give him any credit, though :-(

Time to start pulling the entire question body through the API?

does the ELU homepage have live update?

Shadow Wizard

@JanDvorak I think the web sockets live updates are active over the whole network, yep

Jan Dvorak

SO doesn't live-update the homepage, afaik

Shadow Wizard

@JanDvorak yep, due to the sheer amount of questions that will crash the servers

But SO got enough users/mods to handle spam :)

Jan Dvorak

do you mean the websocket servers? How would they?

Shadow Wizard

6:59 AM

@JanDvorak maybe not crash, but you'll see the banner "x new questions with new activity" rising every second to the point of becoming useless. You click it, and it appears again.

On SO front page, there is always new activity :)

But it's active for per-tag pages

Jan Dvorak

so true. Yet I'd like to know on every site, when there's no activity, if I'm going to be notified when there is.

Is that, "yes, except SO, except on per-tag pages"?

Jan Dvorak

7:19 AM

cool, a normal question on ELU

Shadow Wizard

@JanDvorak I believe so, yes

Jan Dvorak

thanks.

Josh Caswell

8:12 AM

Does this seem like some kind of "Why is Stack Overflow so negative" bait to anyone else, or am I just being paranoid? stackoverflow.com/revisions/23319204/1

Shadow Wizard

@JoshCaswell not really. Looks like innocent question by innocent person, you did well to edit it.

Josh Caswell

Okay, good, thanks for looking, @ShadowWizard. I'll dial back my paranoia level a few notches.

Laszlo Papp

8:31 AM

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/23320485/…

As they say, does not work does not work. — Laszlo Papp 1 min ago

Jan Dvorak

8:58 AM

SPAM english.stackexchange.com/questions/166526/…

let's see if Medica edits all of these phone numbers out.

Laszlo Papp

-1

A: allocation of memory if RAM size is less than requirement

http://www.capsfilm.org Film İzleme Siteninin Tek Ve Kaliteli Adresi Herkesi Bekleriz... http://www.capsfilm.org Film İzleme Siteninin Tek Ve Kaliteli Adresi Herkesi Bekleriz...

spam pls ^^

Stijn

10:28 AM

reopen-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/18295409/… and close it as a duplicate of stackoverflow.com/questions/5296058/c-sharp-and-visual-c

Jan Dvorak

status-too-minor

Laszlo Papp

11:22 AM

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/23321927/…

rene

11:54 AM

@Stijn needs two more reopen votes... I'll keep one close votes in reserve for it to close against that dup.

rene

12:59 PM

SPAM stackoverflow.com/questions/23323054/…

The Guy with The Hat

8 downvotes but not yet six flags?

,':|

rene

Yeah, strange..

Louis

Deleted by community.

Shadow Wizard

@TheGuywithTheHat many people are not aware of the flagging option

rene

Yep, took some time though

Louis

1:15 PM

Some users may be skittish about flags. I know early on after getting a couple declined flags I was confused about what I was supposed to flag, so I abstained. SO has a narrower definition of "spam" than what many people have, and a narrower definition of NAA than what may people intuitively take as NAA.

Sumurai8

Spam == spam.

Shadow Wizard

@Louis true about NAA but spam is spam, little room for mistakes there.

Sumurai8

I can't think of any definition of spam that isn't spam on SO.

Shadow Wizard

@Sumurai8 sorry, no idea what you mean by that?

Louis

@ShadowWizard I've seen cases brought up where someone who happens to work on a library to solve problem X would post detailed answers about problem X and mention their library that were accused of spamming because they brought up their library in multiple posts.

I've also run into cases where someone characterized a duplicate answer (i.e. same answer posted to multiple similar questions) as "spam".

Sumurai8

1:22 PM

@ShadowWizard *takes words and throws them around a bit* I can't think of any post/comment/content that I would consider spam, that isn't considered spam on StackOverflow <-- that clearer?

Louis

And chat users who post their questions in multiple chat rooms were told to stop "spamming". The term "spam" is generally used more loosely than what the spam flag should be used for.

Shadow Wizard

@Louis oh, I see. Valid points. But still, usually it's easy to detect.

@Sumurai8 not really, sorry. I fear only examples will make it clearer, at least for me. :)

TGMCians

@Stijn done, open

Sumurai8

nvm then

Shadow Wizard

@TGMCians and now to close it as dupe :)

TGMCians

1:32 PM

Hmm :)

Need one more close vote now

rene

@TGMCians bummer I already voted to close on that question in 2013...

Somehow I didn't remember that...

TGMCians

Oh NP, lets wait now ..

rene

Sure...

TGMCians

1:49 PM

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/23324027/…

choose custom messsage

rene

Can someone find the duplicate or provide an answer for this marker post

0

Q: Should we downvote, flag or leave comments on Spam?

An hour ago we had this (only visible for 10K-ers now) spam post on the site. In a chatroom that post was brought to my attention. When I loaded the post it had a comment and 6 downvotes. I expected to be the last one needed to flag the post as spam because every spam flag casts a downvote as ...

TGMCians

I see

you just edited it I had changed it to say that it was in the wrong area....don't do that to make someone look bad that just wrong @TGMCians — Oliver Perring 50 secs ago

Is it wrong which I did ?

or should I do again rollback ?

rene

checking..

@TGMCians your rollback were OK because the OP was defacing his post. He deleted it now so no harm done. You were not at fault if you ask me...

Mat

@TGMCians: in this case it was rather pointless. You should roll back when someone vandalizes their post, but since the post was bound for deletion anyway, no point in doing it.

TGMCians

Yes, OP deleted it now

I did rollback one time, then again OP edited the post then OP deleted it and said to me don't do that to make someone look bad that just wrong @TGMCians

Anyway

rene

2:00 PM

@TGMCians Just move on :-)

TGMCians

Hmm, I should :)

rene

2:38 PM

The comments I get on my earlier meta SO post all seem to try to convince me that what I have found is normal...I don't think so...

Shadow Wizard

@rene this is exactly desired behavior vs. existing behavior

This is normal, but better be changed. How? If you have an idea, the team would be grateful. :)

Moving the flag option or making it bigger is one way, but it will probably upset many who are used to its current location.

rene

I thought by at least have clear meta post about the expected behaviour would be a start!

Shadow Wizard

@rene true, but keep in mind very few users know about Meta (both MSO and MSE) and even less really read it regularly so... :/

rene

If it gets enough upvotes it wil appear on the community bulletin

Let me think about a solution

Braiam

well, @rene, didn't you saw last 8 hours on ELU?

rene

2:44 PM

No @Braiam sorry, was it bad?

Mat

Advertising the spam flag too (making it very visible on post for example) much might be problematic too - you don't want people abusing that flag, it's pretty powerful.

Braiam

ask Jan then, we had to teach a 19k+ user that they don't need to do another action apart of flagging

rene

How about an after the fact message to users that only downvoted a spam post?

That can be a batch that runs, can have some server side business rules implemented to prevent spamming.

Shadow Wizard

3:00 PM

@rene interesting, but doubt the team will do it

rene

Any reasoning why not?

Shadow Wizard

@rene because they keep notifications to minimum

Jeff once said something like "we don't want to say to a user 'you suck'" and looks like this is still true with the new team. That's why there is no notification when a post you made is deleted or even closed.

rene

Ok, how about on your flags page a section to show 'missed' spam flag. That are posts where you downvoted instead of flagged

your flag stats become something like: x approved/ y declined/ z disputed / s missed spam

Shadow Wizard

@rene lots of work to the team, but yeah sounds more reasonable. Go ahead and post a feature request! :D

rene

I will when someone answered my post...

I provided the most important bits in the comments...

So it only needs a writer now...

Mat

3:13 PM

The flags summary page is probably only viewed by people who flag rather often. People who don't flag don't even have a link to that, so they're not likely to ever see they missed spam flag.

hichris123

@Braiam Linky?

Jan Dvorak

what about a popup when they do their next downvote?

rene

Nah, too much in their face...

On the profile page somewhere?

Jan Dvorak

... to a post that already has a spam flag?

Shadow Wizard

I would go with a message "this post might be spam, consider to flag as well" after a user downvotes and the post already got at least one spam flag.

Jan Dvorak

3:17 PM

@ShadowWizard I like that

rene

Hmm that could work...

Jan Dvorak

this reveals that there is a spam flag, though

(not that you couldn't tell by watching unannounced downvotes)

rene

gtg...later

Jan Dvorak

bye

animuson

3:41 PM

Hmmm the database transfer creates all the databases and tables, and filled them correctly. I can't figure out why it didn't transfer any of the users though... That's odd.

Braiam

3:57 PM

@hichris123 just read a bit up

GnomeSlice

4:32 PM

Today's Listening

Not for everybody

Laszlo Papp

5:24 PM

cv-pls-offsite-resource stackoverflow.com/questions/23326046/…

Braiam

5:57 PM

@balpha you think this can be done? since guys doesn't want to get rid of the tag itself

rene

Am I the only one that sees this linked question while it is nowhere mentioned in the post or comments? Not even in the deleted answer...

ProgramFOX

@rene No, I also see it.

rene

Is that a known bug or am I overlooking something?

ProgramFOX

But there is a link to your question in the linked question, and that counts also as a linked question.

rene

Ah

huh?

checking...

ProgramFOX

6:09 PM

@rene Your question is linked at the bottom of the list.

rene

Yes, I see. My question is considered to be a problem...

:-)

Laszlo Papp

@Louis: thanks for the help.

Louis

@LaszloPapp np.

Laszlo Papp

it is nice to come here to get help from others when some users make you nervous out there :)

How is this not a link-only answer? stackoverflow.com/a/23326451/2682142

I cannot find any informative inline information, just a bunch of links.

Jan Dvorak

6:26 PM

"look at hoplon" is somewhat of an answer

also, the last paragraph

partial answer, but it still says something if you hide the links.

Laszlo Papp

what information?

Look at something because of why?

For me, that is the definition of link-only, when the inline content on its own is not helpful and self-contained enough.

Jan Dvorak

"enough"

Laszlo Papp

it is basically four links without conclusion that I would understand anything out of it.

Look at foo: foo.com -> That is definition of link-only for me.

Jan Dvorak

you can still google for "hoplon" and get something

bad answer, perhaps VLQ, but not link-only

Laszlo Papp

yes, you can use google, too, instead of Stack Overflow, but that kind of defeats the whole point of the site.

VLQ was rejected by a moderator anyway

I do not understand what value the moderator saw in that.

Jan Dvorak

6:31 PM

it didn't exactly tell you nothing. This answer still tells you something. It tells you what to search for.

Laszlo Papp

(especially since the question was going to be closed as off-topic, and not unreasonably deleted later)

why would I search for it?

if I want to hear such a thing I start searching on google.

but then again, that defeats the purpose of the site. I am not sure why a moderator thought this would not be low-quality, provided the question is clearly off-topic, too.

Jan Dvorak

not sure about why it was rejected as VLQ, but definitely not link-only.

was it declined by a mod?

VLQ flags normally lead to the queue

Laszlo Papp

very low quality – Laszlo Papp 1 hour ago declined - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it

I will flag it again :)

I still think that negatively scored answer has to burn.

It would be nice if moderators could explain their reasoning, so that the contributors can learn from it.

Jan Dvorak

Or, you could wait for Roomba

Laszlo Papp

it will not live that long. :) It is in my todo already... will delete vote cast it in two days.

animuson

6:38 PM

We generally don't care about answers on closed questions. Unless they're extremely bad, let the Roomba handle it.

Laszlo Papp

also, waiting for roomba is risky because the OP can accept the answer, as well as, he could get silly upvotes.

this is very low-quality and I assume it takes equal effort to burn or keep it, so I do not understand the decision behind decline.

this post is kept, and useful and on-topic questions are removed. Where does it go to? :(

@yotsov: I personally suggest to remove your answer. — Laszlo Papp 19 secs ago

Jan Dvorak

You can ask on meta why it isn't VLQ

Laszlo Papp

best I can do for now not to get annoyed by another decline again, I assume. ^^

Jan Dvorak

that's a good choice

animuson

I'm going through the queue declining flags as "Use the canonical close reasons provided."

Laszlo Papp

6:41 PM

answers are not closed.

animuson

That wasn't relevant to your flag. You didn't get that reason, did you?

Laszlo Papp

and the canonical answer reason was provided: VLQ.

it was converted to comment now, anyhow

Jan Dvorak

@LaszloPapp good

TGMCians

cya

rene

6:57 PM

bye @TGMCians

Thell

7:18 PM

Is the "Duplicate Closing" process documented anywhere? ie: # of votes to close, requisites of who can vote, etc...?

Jan Dvorak

@Thell you need 3k to vote, five votes cause closure, close reason is chosen by majority of votes with ties broken in favor of later votes

Thell

Thanks @JanDvorak; is that in a particular section of the help/faq or anything?

Jan Dvorak

it probably is

Thell

:) I thought it would be too...

Mat

91

Q: What is a "closed" or “on hold” question?

Questions can be put on hold or closed. What does it mean for a question to be closed or “on hold”? Who can put a question on hold? What are the reasons for putting a question on hold? What if multiple close reasons are used on a question? Is closure the end of the road for a question? When are...

support faq closed-questions on-hold terminology

@Thell ^^

Thell

7:21 PM

Perfect! Thanks @Mat.

Thell

9:00 PM

We were talking in the R chat room earlier today about unanswered questions that are good/valid questions that have good/valid but not-accepted answers that have been in the unanswered queues for extended time periods (years in some cases) and a proposed solution was put forward.

I'm a selective answerer type of fellow; and having never asked a question on SO I'm thinking of making it my first. Before I do though I was hoping for a little feedback from some old-timers on if it is even worth it, as I get accussed (rightfully so) of 'yelling at windmills' quite frequently. :)

Here the draft.. gist.github.com/Thell/11354937

Braiam

9:32 PM

@Thell just vote them up ;)

the system doesn't need the OP to accept an answer, in some cases there are answers that overtake the accepted one

Thell

@Braiam, was the post too long to read? I assume you didn't, either that or it was unclear... as that doesn't do anything to resolve them building up in the queue, which is the issue.

Braiam

9:49 PM

@Thell which queue you talking about? a question is considered answered once there's at least an net positive voted answer

Thell

'unanswered' questions, of course.

Braiam

10:07 PM

> As of today, here’s how we do it:

Answered questions have at least one answer with one upvote (or accepted)
Unanswered questions have no answers with upvotes (or accepted)

@Thell ^ source blog.stackoverflow.com/2008/09/ok-now-define-answered

so, as long as there's an answer with an upvote, it's considered answered

Thell

@Braiam, yep. Which does nothing to remove these 'answered' but 'no accepted answers' from being listed in the 'unanswered' lists.

Braiam

@Thell unaccepted questions doesn't show in the unanswered list as long as there is some answer upvoted...

why don't you test?

Thell

lol; I have. It wouldn't be an issue if they didn't get listed ;) Do you really think that we would've spent the time discussing, researching, and coming up with a proposed solution if there wasn't an issue that hadn't already been brought up multiple times before?

Braiam

10:22 PM

@Thell what question appears in the unanswered list that have an upvote?

Thell

You mean which thousands of questions? Just for the R subtag ~4k questions meet the criteria listed in the linked gist.

Braiam

I found this on the list and doesn't seems like it has an upvoted answer stackoverflow.com/questions/2040026/…

this other neither stackoverflow.com/questions/19843579

tell me, which question have you found that has an upvoted answer and still appears in the list?

Thell

Here's a whole page of them... stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/…

notice they are in the unanswered list.

Braiam

and again no upvoted answer

you want them to go away, upvote some answer

go around, you got 30 votes to spend ;)

or better, if all answers are wrong just put yours

Thell

10:39 PM

We are having a communication gap... I'm fairly confident, correct me if I'm wrong, that you didn't look at the criteria listed and are just picking out the 'unanswered' part. This is a quick query listing results... data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/186380/…

Louis

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/23325409/…

cv-pls-opinion-based stackoverflow.com/questions/23329836/…

Laszlo Papp

do we really need such edits? stackoverflow.com/posts/23320781/revisions

Braiam

@Thell your query is broken, it tells me this stackoverflow.com/q/14502671/792066 is unanswered, when it clearly has an upvoted answer

Thell

Something somewhere is borked, that's for sure. :)

Braiam

well, the system is doing just fine

Louis

10:50 PM

@LaszloPapp I don't know that I'm all that fond of the additional bullet points (meh...) but I find posts easier to read if code is marked up as code.

Thell

@Braiam never said the system wasn't doing fine, it seems to operates exactly as it is advertised to operate.

Braiam

@Thell then, what was the problem all along?

Laszlo Papp

@Louis: I used bullet points there earlier, but I personally deemed it nicer without it after evaluation the outputs, so it was intentional... not sure rolling back is worth it. I will probably just leave it as the guy wanted.

Thell

Never mind @Braiam; you obviously either didn't understand the linked proposal because it wasn't clear enough, or you didn't read it. Since you didn't answer me the other times I directly asked if you read it, I assume you wouldn't if I asked you again.

GnomeSlice

0

Q: iOS Game Center not working now app is live

I've just released my app on the App store tonight (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bird-hunter/id829810807?ls=1&mt=8), it has a leaderboard that worked perfectly well in sandbox mode, but now shows up saying no items. During the review process I was able to see another user on the leaderboard,...

ios iphone gamekit

Off-topic innit?

Braiam

11:05 PM

@Thell whatever you propose won't be applied if you can't make 2 lines excerpt and explain it. btw, the post you are referring about self-accepted answer was superseeded blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/01/accept-your-own-answers

Thell

@Braiam; you likely correct regarding a 'two line excerpt'; I'll let others think on that. I'm now busy spending my 30 votes on stuff to clean out the list (should only take 9200/30 days) instead of answering questions instead. ... We do what we can to help I suppose. ...

Braiam

11:57 PM

@Thell that's the spirit :), but if you are couple of regulars in the chat room, it's easier

Jan Dvorak

> Thank you for reviewing 20 low quality posts today; come back in 2 minutes to continue reviewing

Thell

LMAO @Braiam. It feels much more exhausting doing this than taking an hour to research and writeup 1 answer. Oddly enough the count just dropped from ~9200 to ~8900... at least we are getting somewhere :)

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